NFTS problems in XPe (What are reserved clusters?)

M

Mark K Vallevand

On my XPe system, the file system is EWF RAM Reg compressed NTFS in 470mb
partition on 512mb Compact Flash. When ASP.NET webpages are accessed, the
NTFS "Total Reserved" space grows to fill the entire file system.

What are these reserved clusters and why is IIS and ASP.NET using them?

If you stop IIS and delete the ASP.NET temp files (compiled webpages), the
reserved space is sometimes released. The ASP.NET temp files are quite
small (5mb) and deleting them can free 120mb reserved space. But, this
doesn't always free the reserved space.

If you commit and restart, the reserved space in the file system always in
released.

I have tried running with EWF disabled and it behaves the same.

Is there a good forum to ask NTFS questions?

--
Regards.
Mark K Vallevand (e-mail address removed)

Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
- Benjamin Franklin


THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its
attachments from all computers.
 
D

Doug Hoeffel

Mark:

Maybe:

microsoft.public.windows.file_system
microsoft.public.win2000.file_system

HTH... Doug
 
M

Mark K Vallevand

Thanks. I'm posting in several other groups.

I've heard that Microsoft Message Queuing (MSMQ) doesn't work on compressed
NFTS. Any one else heard this?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/251186/EN-US/

Quoting:
If you run a program that uses transaction logging and that constantly
writes to a database or log, configure the program to store its files on a
volume that is not compressed. If a program modifies data through mapped
sections in a compressed file, the program can produce "dirty" pages faster
than the mapped writer can write them. Programs such as Microsoft Message
Queuing (also known as MSMQ) do not work with NTFS compression because of
this issue.

Well, MSMQ core is in my image, required by DotNET framework. Maybe its not
being used, or maybe there is some connection.

--
Regards.
Mark K Vallevand (e-mail address removed)

Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
- Benjamin Franklin


THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its
attachments from all computers.
 
S

Slobodan Brcin \(eMVP\)

Mark,

Multiplying same posting at different News Groups is very bad idea since it will irritate peoples that read them all.

You can post one message to all news groups at once so they are linked together.
This way you will have to check only one NG for answers.
All people will download only once post instead for each NG separately.
We all can see what people from other NG suggested and give our comments as well. (So you have bigger range of different answers)
Probably there are other benefits for all that I can't remember at the moment.

Regards,
Slobodan
 
K

KM

But at the same time be careful and forewarned that a post to very many MS public newsgroups may be rejected as suspected to be
spam.
 
K

KM

Mark,

Sorry for repeating the tip but did you try playing with the NTFS's MFT Reservation?
I wonder if the reserved clusters you mentioned above are for MFT.

If so, you can tweak it using fsutil tool or through the registry:
Key [HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\FileSystem]
Value NtfsMftZoneReservation of DWORD type (1 to 4) allows you to specify MFT Zone for the newly created/formatted volumes (12.5
percent, 25 percent, 37.5 percent, 50 percent of NTFS volume accordingly).

Some more info you can find here: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q174619
 
M

Mark K Vallevand

I thought about it, but since the problem only happens when accessing
ASP.NET webpages, I didn't try it.

I followed up on the one good answer I got, and tried to uncompress the
ASP.NET temporary directory. It solved the problem. I also recreated the
problem on Windows 2000 and Windows XP by compressing the ASP.NET temporary
directory. On those systems, loosing 100mb of space is almost unnoticed.
On XPe and out 470mb partition, loosing 100mb is very noticible. I have
opened a problem report with Microsoft.

--
Regards.
Mark K Vallevand (e-mail address removed)

Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
- Benjamin Franklin


THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its
attachments from all computers.


KM said:
Mark,

Sorry for repeating the tip but did you try playing with the NTFS's MFT
Reservation?
I wonder if the reserved clusters you mentioned above are for MFT.

If so, you can tweak it using fsutil tool or through the registry:
Key [HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\FileSystem]
Value NtfsMftZoneReservation of DWORD type (1 to 4) allows you to specify
MFT Zone for the newly created/formatted volumes (12.5
percent, 25 percent, 37.5 percent, 50 percent of NTFS volume accordingly).

Some more info you can find here:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q174619

--
Regards,
KM, BSquare Corp.

I tried to be selective about the groups I posted, and re-wrote the
message
for each group. I could have sprayed. I also could have been more
efficient, or more polite, or whatever. I was simply hoping to ask a
broader range of people without stepping on too many toes.

The best answer I've gotten so far is that ASP.NET likes to reserve
clusters
for decompressing files. Why it reserves 100mb for decompressing 6mb of
webpages into 8mb, or 16mb of compiled webpages into 20mb, is unanswered.
It might simply be "because". Just like Windows Backup requires 300mb
free
space. "Because." Now, Windows Backup is tweeked to require only 100mb
free space. Maybe ASP.NET will be tweeked as well.

--
Regards.
Mark K Vallevand (e-mail address removed)

Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
- Benjamin Franklin


THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you
received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its
attachments from all computers.
 
K

KM

Mark,

Was that a big number of files your ASP.NET web content uses?
I am wondering if the problem was about the "virtual" clusters that NTFS uses for compression.
You can read more about the compression here http://www.digit-life.com/articles/ntfs/ (look under the Compression section).

--
Regards,
KM, BSquare Corp.

I thought about it, but since the problem only happens when accessing
ASP.NET webpages, I didn't try it.

I followed up on the one good answer I got, and tried to uncompress the
ASP.NET temporary directory. It solved the problem. I also recreated the
problem on Windows 2000 and Windows XP by compressing the ASP.NET temporary
directory. On those systems, loosing 100mb of space is almost unnoticed.
On XPe and out 470mb partition, loosing 100mb is very noticible. I have
opened a problem report with Microsoft.

--
Regards.
Mark K Vallevand (e-mail address removed)

Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
- Benjamin Franklin


THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its
attachments from all computers.


KM said:
Mark,

Sorry for repeating the tip but did you try playing with the NTFS's MFT
Reservation?
I wonder if the reserved clusters you mentioned above are for MFT.

If so, you can tweak it using fsutil tool or through the registry:
Key [HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\FileSystem]
Value NtfsMftZoneReservation of DWORD type (1 to 4) allows you to specify
MFT Zone for the newly created/formatted volumes (12.5
percent, 25 percent, 37.5 percent, 50 percent of NTFS volume accordingly).

Some more info you can find here:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q174619

--
Regards,
KM, BSquare Corp.

I tried to be selective about the groups I posted, and re-wrote the
message
for each group. I could have sprayed. I also could have been more
efficient, or more polite, or whatever. I was simply hoping to ask a
broader range of people without stepping on too many toes.

The best answer I've gotten so far is that ASP.NET likes to reserve
clusters
for decompressing files. Why it reserves 100mb for decompressing 6mb of
webpages into 8mb, or 16mb of compiled webpages into 20mb, is unanswered.
It might simply be "because". Just like Windows Backup requires 300mb
free
space. "Because." Now, Windows Backup is tweeked to require only 100mb
free space. Maybe ASP.NET will be tweeked as well.

--
Regards.
Mark K Vallevand (e-mail address removed)

Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
- Benjamin Franklin


THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you
received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its
attachments from all computers.


But at the same time be careful and forewarned that a post to very many
MS
public newsgroups may be rejected as suspected to be
spam.

--
Regards,
Konstantin


Mark,

Multiplying same posting at different News Groups is very bad idea
since
it will irritate peoples that read them all.

You can post one message to all news groups at once so they are linked
together.
This way you will have to check only one NG for answers.
All people will download only once post instead for each NG
separately.
We all can see what people from other NG suggested and give our
comments
as well. (So you have bigger range of different answers)
Probably there are other benefits for all that I can't remember at the
moment.

Regards,
Slobodan

Thanks. I'm posting in several other groups.

I've heard that Microsoft Message Queuing (MSMQ) doesn't work on
compressed
NFTS. Any one else heard this?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/251186/EN-US/

Quoting:
If you run a program that uses transaction logging and that
constantly
writes to a database or log, configure the program to store its
files
on a
volume that is not compressed. If a program modifies data through
mapped
sections in a compressed file, the program can produce "dirty" pages
faster
than the mapped writer can write them. Programs such as Microsoft
Message
Queuing (also known as MSMQ) do not work with NTFS compression
because
of
this issue.

Well, MSMQ core is in my image, required by DotNET framework. Maybe
its not
being used, or maybe there is some connection.

--
Regards.
Mark K Vallevand (e-mail address removed)

Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
- Benjamin Franklin


THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE
PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you
received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and
its
attachments from all computers.


Mark:

Maybe:

microsoft.public.windows.file_system
microsoft.public.win2000.file_system

HTH... Doug

On my XPe system, the file system is EWF RAM Reg compressed NTFS
in
470mb
partition on 512mb Compact Flash. When ASP.NET webpages are
accessed,
the
NTFS "Total Reserved" space grows to fill the entire file system.

What are these reserved clusters and why is IIS and ASP.NET using
them?

If you stop IIS and delete the ASP.NET temp files (compiled
webpages),
the
reserved space is sometimes released. The ASP.NET temp files are
quite
small (5mb) and deleting them can free 120mb reserved space.
But,
this
doesn't always free the reserved space.

If you commit and restart, the reserved space in the file system
always
in
released.

I have tried running with EWF disabled and it behaves the same.

Is there a good forum to ask NTFS questions?

--
Regards.
Mark K Vallevand (e-mail address removed)

Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
- Benjamin Franklin


THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE
PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If
you
received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail
and
its
attachments from all computers.
 
M

Mark K Vallevand

I think there are about 900 files that are in the ASP.NET temporary
directory.

--
Regards.
Mark K Vallevand (e-mail address removed)

Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
- Benjamin Franklin


THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its
attachments from all computers.


KM said:
Mark,

Was that a big number of files your ASP.NET web content uses?
I am wondering if the problem was about the "virtual" clusters that NTFS
uses for compression.
You can read more about the compression here
http://www.digit-life.com/articles/ntfs/ (look under the Compression
section).

--
Regards,
KM, BSquare Corp.

I thought about it, but since the problem only happens when accessing
ASP.NET webpages, I didn't try it.

I followed up on the one good answer I got, and tried to uncompress the
ASP.NET temporary directory. It solved the problem. I also recreated
the
problem on Windows 2000 and Windows XP by compressing the ASP.NET
temporary
directory. On those systems, loosing 100mb of space is almost unnoticed.
On XPe and out 470mb partition, loosing 100mb is very noticible. I have
opened a problem report with Microsoft.

--
Regards.
Mark K Vallevand (e-mail address removed)

Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
- Benjamin Franklin


THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you
received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its
attachments from all computers.


KM said:
Mark,

Sorry for repeating the tip but did you try playing with the NTFS's MFT
Reservation?
I wonder if the reserved clusters you mentioned above are for MFT.

If so, you can tweak it using fsutil tool or through the registry:
Key [HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\FileSystem]
Value NtfsMftZoneReservation of DWORD type (1 to 4) allows you to
specify
MFT Zone for the newly created/formatted volumes (12.5
percent, 25 percent, 37.5 percent, 50 percent of NTFS volume
accordingly).

Some more info you can find here:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q174619

--
Regards,
KM, BSquare Corp.


I tried to be selective about the groups I posted, and re-wrote the
message
for each group. I could have sprayed. I also could have been more
efficient, or more polite, or whatever. I was simply hoping to ask a
broader range of people without stepping on too many toes.

The best answer I've gotten so far is that ASP.NET likes to reserve
clusters
for decompressing files. Why it reserves 100mb for decompressing 6mb
of
webpages into 8mb, or 16mb of compiled webpages into 20mb, is
unanswered.
It might simply be "because". Just like Windows Backup requires 300mb
free
space. "Because." Now, Windows Backup is tweeked to require only
100mb
free space. Maybe ASP.NET will be tweeked as well.

--
Regards.
Mark K Vallevand (e-mail address removed)

Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
- Benjamin Franklin


THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE
PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you
received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its
attachments from all computers.


But at the same time be careful and forewarned that a post to very
many
MS
public newsgroups may be rejected as suspected to be
spam.

--
Regards,
Konstantin


Mark,

Multiplying same posting at different News Groups is very bad idea
since
it will irritate peoples that read them all.

You can post one message to all news groups at once so they are
linked
together.
This way you will have to check only one NG for answers.
All people will download only once post instead for each NG
separately.
We all can see what people from other NG suggested and give our
comments
as well. (So you have bigger range of different answers)
Probably there are other benefits for all that I can't remember at
the
moment.

Regards,
Slobodan

Thanks. I'm posting in several other groups.

I've heard that Microsoft Message Queuing (MSMQ) doesn't work on
compressed
NFTS. Any one else heard this?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/251186/EN-US/

Quoting:
If you run a program that uses transaction logging and that
constantly
writes to a database or log, configure the program to store its
files
on a
volume that is not compressed. If a program modifies data through
mapped
sections in a compressed file, the program can produce "dirty"
pages
faster
than the mapped writer can write them. Programs such as Microsoft
Message
Queuing (also known as MSMQ) do not work with NTFS compression
because
of
this issue.

Well, MSMQ core is in my image, required by DotNET framework.
Maybe
its not
being used, or maybe there is some connection.

--
Regards.
Mark K Vallevand (e-mail address removed)

Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
- Benjamin Franklin


THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE
PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If
you
received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail
and
its
attachments from all computers.


message
Mark:

Maybe:

microsoft.public.windows.file_system
microsoft.public.win2000.file_system

HTH... Doug

On my XPe system, the file system is EWF RAM Reg compressed
NTFS
in
470mb
partition on 512mb Compact Flash. When ASP.NET webpages are
accessed,
the
NTFS "Total Reserved" space grows to fill the entire file
system.

What are these reserved clusters and why is IIS and ASP.NET
using
them?

If you stop IIS and delete the ASP.NET temp files (compiled
webpages),
the
reserved space is sometimes released. The ASP.NET temp files
are
quite
small (5mb) and deleting them can free 120mb reserved space.
But,
this
doesn't always free the reserved space.

If you commit and restart, the reserved space in the file
system
always
in
released.

I have tried running with EWF disabled and it behaves the
same.

Is there a good forum to ask NTFS questions?

--
Regards.
Mark K Vallevand (e-mail address removed)

Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be
happy.
- Benjamin Franklin


THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE
PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient.
If
you
received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail
and
its
attachments from all computers.
 

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