Newsgroup Links problem

P

POP

Just couldn't hold in your bile, eh? I don't recall saying the
faintest thing that you might be responding to. Your prejudices
and personal opinions are your own and you're entitled to them,
but your trash here seems to be just that; trash talk for the
sake of "talk". Closed minds are usually small minds, I know,
but there's no need to go around proving it. When you have
nothing to say, that's what you should say. Which, by the way,
is what I'll be saying to you in the future.

Pop`
 
J

Jim Pickering

Thanks for the comments, but I doubt you'll find many in these newsgroups
who have anything good to say about Symantec products. What you use is your
personal choice and that's great, but I don't recall posting with any "bile"
but I see something has upset your tummy. Sorry about that and hope you
have a better day tomorrow.

PS - At my age (73) remarks like yours are nothing new and they just roll
off since they really have no lasting merit.
 
F

Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM

Jim Pickering said:
Thanks for the comments, but I doubt you'll find many in these newsgroups
who have anything good to say about Symantec products. What you use is
your personal choice and that's great, but I don't recall posting with any
"bile" but I see something has upset your tummy. Sorry about that and
hope you have a better day tomorrow.

PS - At my age (73) remarks like yours are nothing new and they just roll
off since they really have no lasting merit.
--
Jim Pickering
MVP-Outlook Express/Windows Mail
Please reply to newsgroup only so that others may be helped with your
feedback.


No initial merit, either. Especially from someone who likes NSW.
 
S

Steve Cochran

Jim's responses and attitude towards Symantec arise from years of experience
in this NG and others, where we have had to deal daily with people posting
over and over again that they lost all their messages.

For over 8 years, Norton has been a primary source of this problem, so you
may temper your understanding given this information.

See also www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3

We also try to be congenial to each other in this and other MS newsgroups.
You might try that also.

cheers,

steve
 
P

POP

Ahhhh, the closed-minded ignorance of the savant; freshly rotted
in its own tripe, such as it were. Comments like yours would be
comedic if you weren't spewing ignorance usually reserved for the
unwashed/uneducated/closed minded and closet-anti socials. It's
like the "no DOS in XP" arguement the ignorants such as you
(aggregate "you" there) like to spew. Technically and legally it
could be proven that DOS does indeed exist in windows XP, just as
the very same pages and articles can be used to "prove" that it
does not. Even MS tries to have it both ways.

I do have to admit to a certain amount of entertainment value
from the likes of such ignorance and I do occasionally, as I am
at this moment, partake in a little of the pleasures such can
provide. "You-uns" would make good politicians these days and
even fit right in with the crowd.

I find it curious how some people can think "MVP" has some sort
of extra meaning attached to it. Titles make some people feel
good and think they're hot sh_t, but ... well, you know how the
rest of that goes, right?

BTW, Frank, I noticed your "we" just recently, as in "we" meaning
you and Microsoft and you even made it sound like you WERE
Microsoft. You might be micro-soft, but you are not Microsoft;
nice try and it was a telling slip on your part.

There are some very good, and some very knowledgeable MVPs
around, and they are actually useful people with good opinions,
useful advice, and even have interpersonal skills, somethign
which is often very obviously not something you have.

I won't be responding to you, so have fun and flop around on the
sunny deck, just a foot or so from the water all you want. I
only do it for entertainment value and then when some ignorant
such as you asks for it but never otherwise. You on the other
hand actually make trollish attempts with your spew and love the
control you think it gives you. Happy days, huh? Have fun.

Gardsies,

Pop
--
"Politicians are like diapers.They both should be changed
frequently and for the same reason" author unk.



message
 
P

POP

Yeah, that -finally- popped out at me. And sounds reasonable to
boot. Somehow I kept missing the inferences you made. Sorry
'bout that.
I do miss OEQF and I'll have to take a look at switching those
options. Might have time tomorrow, we'll see. Right now company
just popped in so I can see the rest of the evening's going to be
fun and games (literally).

Thanks,

Pop`
 
B

Bruce Hagen

Hi POP,

I don't know what you found so offensive in Frank's reply, but let me just
say this.

Frank has more knowledge of Outlook Express than any MS Tech Support
professional, and does not charge $35.00.

MVP is a title given to people by MS to show their appreciation for what
they have contributed to newsgroup users over a period of time.

We are all *volunteers*. We do not get anything from MS for what we do other
than a *pat on the back* of sorts.

We all are human and may have a bad day from time to time. I have had plenty
and have said some things to people that I regretted, and often apologized
for. By the same token, some of my replies have been taken in the wrong
context. This results in a poster thinking I meant to offend him/her, when
all I was doing was trying to make a valid point.

None of us are infallible, and any of us can misinterpret a post. But Frank
is someone that is irreplaceable. As a member of this newsgroup, he will be
missed by many posters if and when he decides to hang it up.

I wouldn't have a quarter of the OE knowledge I have if it was not for
Frank. He was a very important mentor to me in my short time here in this
newsgroup. If not for him and a few others, I would still be *asking*
questions in this newsgroup instead of *answering* them.

Please think again before you bash Frank, or anyone else trying to help for
no one's benefit but the OP's.
 
S

Steve Cochran

Let me just quote what I said before:

"We also try to be congenial to each other in this and other MS newsgroups.
You might try that also."

Your attack on Frank is completely unwarranted. We as MVPs here for OE have
struggled with MS for over 8 years trying to get a more responsible software
package out of MS, rather than the current unsatisfactory program people
have had to deal with all of these years.

Frank has been in the thick of it with the rest of the OE MVPs trying and
trying and trying for years to help the OE users.

Your ill-informed and disparaging comments towards those who have helped so
much in these OE NGs only proclaim your ignorance of the issues and expose
you as a pompous fool.

cheers,

steve
 
P

POP

Hi Bruce,

Yeah, I guess I did go overboard there. I don't disagree with
anything you pointed out in any way and I mean this as
non-confrontationally as I can make it, but I did and still do
have problems with what he said.
My huge mistake was in not just passing by and forgetting about
it; some of my comment was uncalled for and could have been
handled much more tactfully/discreetly.

From the lame excuses department: I was caught by an annoyance
at a time when my pain medications had foisted its twice-daily
"verbosity" upon me plus allowed myself to be triggered by a big
pet peeve of mine.
Namely I object to those who tend to paint the world with one
brush, one color, and leave behind intimations that others must
follow in their steps.

Specifically:
He said, concerning a previous post:
">>> No initial merit, either. Especially from someone who
likes NSW."

IMO that's an ignorant statement, the import of which is
increased by having "MVP" near his name. IMO a true "MVP" has
better things to do than troll for non-topical responses. As I
am prone to do, I gave him back what he was offering up.
Childish, but entertainingly satisfying, I have to admit, at the
time.

He also said:
">>>> Thanks for the comments, but I doubt you'll find many in
these
which is incorrect. I won't because I don't want to turn this
into a trollfest or fingerpointing exercise, but I can point to
at least three MVPs here who have a reasonable and real world
approach toward another person's choices and who also do not
advise removing it or avoiding it at all costs. I've seen a fair
amount of assistance to others with questions about Symantec
products here and in other groups, and he too often butts in with
his ramblings, albeit blunt, about how it needs to be pitched
rather than offering any substantive assistance. It's as though
is he doesn't have an answer, he does have a silly comment. It
wouldn't be so bad if he kept his silliness to one group but he
works hard at dunning and libeling Symantec/Norton at nearly
every chance he gets and never backs any of his comments up with
anything factual, demonstrable, or verifiable.
To my way of thinking, that does not satisfy the MVP
obligations but rather violates several of them. IMO again, he's
using his "title" to be able to propose biased and sometimes
libelous statements as facts rather than baseless opinions, based
on the weight he thinks it gives him.

I could go on as there is a lot more, but that should be enough
to demonstrate at least where I am/was coming from. I simply
decided it was time to take him to task, so rather than complain
to mommy MVP as some are prone to do, I did it here and out in
the open.
I haven't singled him out by any means, because there are a
few others like him, and about four different subjects they like
to think is the "company line", which they are OK to spew forth.
I do not refer to MS by "company line".

So, I can't apologize for anything I said with any honesty and
will not. I will admit I probably went too far and well around
Hogan's Barn in doing so, but it was time someone said it.
I have a nasty habit of saying what I mean, and meaning what I
say about 99.99% of the time. Some people don't like that but
it's the reality of the situation. Besides, it has put his
reliability quotient into the tubes for me; his apparently closed
mind shows clearly in some instances: Where else does it not
show that skews his responses?
And, I've no idea what your $35 charge related to BTW, but
it's not important. I must have missed the reference.

Oh, yes, I've also passed the MVP requirements et al but for
several reasons choose not to use the "title". Actually, I've
made it thru twice with excellent results. My intent was not to
become an MVP, but to figure out just where the heck a few people
were coming from. Thus I was able to get the informaiton first
hand.
The MVP web site, the sites of many MVPs, and most of the people
associated with it and participating are EXCELlent folk, and do a
LOT of good. And they do it properly. I think he needs a few
refresher courses mainly - and to keep an eye out for
interpersonal skills assessments. He's either tired, and/or
burned out, and/or doesn't deserve the "title".

Regards,

Pop`
--
Now, where're my pain meds?
Ah, there they are! Hope they don't
make me too verbose<g>.
------------------------------------
The Most Valuable Professional Program is the way that Microsoft
formally acknowledges the accomplishments of these individuals
for their contributions to community. It is focused on fostering
a vibrant global community where Microsoft and customers learn
about each other through valued ongoing relationships. The key
strategies the program employs are:

a.. Recognize and engage with MVPs worldwide—Identify, enable
and empower community influencers through a consistent quality
customer relationship with Microsoft that spans product groups,
services, and field organizations.
b.. Improve customer connection and satisfaction—Recognize more
customers for their efforts and improve the quality of the
experience on their turf and in their language.
c.. Drive program excellence—Professionalize services, customer
offerings and worldwide roles and responsibilities to become more
predictable and accountable to both internal and external
Microsoft community customers.
 
P

POP

Steve,

That was no attack: That was a very valid perception of an MVP's
actions who needs to be reigned in and even offers libelous
prose, which, you also appear to approve of.

Further inline:

Steve Cochran said:
Let me just quote what I said before:

"We also try to be congenial to each other in this and other MS
newsgroups.
You might try that also."

IFF I should respond, I respond in-kind to this sort of thing. I
don't attempt to give misinformation.
Your attack on Frank is completely unwarranted.

Actually, as I explained the the previous post, it is/was
warranted. And overdue.

We as MVPs here for OE have
struggled with MS for over 8 years trying to get a more
responsible software package out of MS, rather than the current
unsatisfactory program people have had to deal with all of
these years.

That is NOT the "job" of an MVP. Your "slur" here violates the
agreements you made when you became an MVP. If you are an MVP.
Read on.
Frank has been in the thick of it with the rest of the OE MVPs
trying and trying and trying for years to help the OE users.

Did I object to his helping OE users? No, I did not. I objected
to his possibly libelous statements about a company MS is
currently in competitive status with. Whereas you have decided
to slur MS as well.
Your ill-informed and disparaging comments towards those who
have helped so much in these OE NGs only proclaim your
ignorance of the issues and expose you as a pompous fool.

My comments are/were quite well informed and are easily
verifiable should one wish to pursue it. Disparaging is in the
eye of the reader. He is only one of several who have helped in
some way over the years.
I could comment on your own "pompousity" but shall not. Your
presentation of misinformation, slurs against Microsoft in this
post, and your overall attitude display an ignorance of
interestingly valid points you should already be aware of. Your
grasp of the situation is apparently tenuous at best and
wrong-headed at worst. It leads me to think your MVP status is
phoney, in fact, although you clearly elude to it early on.
....

I've made the points I wished to make, with assistance from two
MVPs, and don't intend to be responding to any further posts
along this line so flail away at will; the floor is yours. There
is very little to be gained by further communications along this
line.

Perhaps you've forgotten what it's about too, when one such as he
"slurs" Symantec/Norton products, MS itself, and even the
incorrect descriptions you yourself have attempted to give in
your response.
--------------------------------
Rules of Conduct


Appropriate Language: The purpose of our communities is to
exchange technical information and expertise about Microsoft
products. Please avoid personal attacks, slurs, and profanity in
your interactions.

Relevance to Topics: Please make sure that your postings in
newsgroups and chats are relevant to the subject at hand. It is
normal for some topics to drift from the stated subject. However,
to ensure maximum benefit for everyone, we encourage you to keep
your postings as close to the subject as possible.

Advertising/Solicitation: These communities were created as a
forum for providing peer-to-peer assistance related to using
Microsoft products and services. We ask that you refrain from
posting unsolicited advertisements that do not pertain directly
to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat.

Confidentiality: Please keep in mind that our communities are
public spaces, so don't post anything that you don't want the
world to see. Credit card numbers, product keys, and other
confidential information, including anything covered under a
non-disclosure agreement (NDA), should not be posted to a
newsgroup, chat, or other community.

The Most Valuable Professional Program is the way that Microsoft
formally acknowledges the accomplishments of these individuals
for their contributions to community. It is focused on fostering
a vibrant global community where Microsoft and customers learn
about each other through valued ongoing relationships. The key
strategies the program employs are:

a.. Recognize and engage with MVPs worldwide—Identify, enable
and empower community influencers through a consistent quality
customer relationship with Microsoft that spans product groups,
services, and field organizations.
b.. Improve customer connection and satisfaction—Recognize more
customers for their efforts and improve the quality of the
experience on their turf and in their language.
c.. Drive program excellence—Professionalize services, customer
offerings and worldwide roles and responsibilities to become more
predictable and accountable to both internal and external
Microsoft community customers.
----
Q2: Why does the award exist?

A2: Microsoft believes that a robust, interactive user community
is key to helping customers maximize the solutions and benefits
from their software investments. The MVP Award is the way
Microsoft recognizes those participants who have made a highly
positive impact in the technical and product communities in which
they participate. Microsoft wants community participants and
leaders to know that their contributions are greatly appreciated.
The MVP Award exists as a way to reach out to and thank
outstanding members for their past participation and willingness
to help others in these communities, both online and offline.



Q5: Do MVPs represent Microsoft?

A5: No. MVPs are not employees of Microsoft nor do they speak on
Microsoft's behalf. MVPs are third party individuals who have
simply received an award from Microsoft.

Q8: What does Microsoft expect of its MVPs?

A8: Because the MVP Award is an award-based program with criteria
based on past contributions, Microsoft has no expectations of
MVPs beyond the expectations of courtesy, professionalism, code
of conduct and adherence to the community rules that we ask of
all Microsoft community members. These rules can be found on the
Microsoft Communities code of conduct page.

Regards, and without animosity or prejudice of any kind,

Pop
 
G

Guest

--
Arly


POP said:
Hi Bruce,

Yeah, I guess I did go overboard there. I don't disagree with
anything you pointed out in any way and I mean this as
non-confrontationally as I can make it, but I did and still do
have problems with what he said.
My huge mistake was in not just passing by and forgetting about
it; some of my comment was uncalled for and could have been
handled much more tactfully/discreetly.

From the lame excuses department: I was caught by an annoyance
at a time when my pain medications had foisted its twice-daily
"verbosity" upon me plus allowed myself to be triggered by a big
pet peeve of mine.
Namely I object to those who tend to paint the world with one
brush, one color, and leave behind intimations that others must
follow in their steps.

Specifically:
He said, concerning a previous post:
">>> No initial merit, either. Especially from someone who
likes NSW."

IMO that's an ignorant statement, the import of which is
increased by having "MVP" near his name. IMO a true "MVP" has
better things to do than troll for non-topical responses. As I
am prone to do, I gave him back what he was offering up.
Childish, but entertainingly satisfying, I have to admit, at the
time.

He also said:
">>>> Thanks for the comments, but I doubt you'll find many in
these

which is incorrect. I won't because I don't want to turn this
into a trollfest or fingerpointing exercise, but I can point to
at least three MVPs here who have a reasonable and real world
approach toward another person's choices and who also do not
advise removing it or avoiding it at all costs. I've seen a fair
amount of assistance to others with questions about Symantec
products here and in other groups, and he too often butts in with
his ramblings, albeit blunt, about how it needs to be pitched
rather than offering any substantive assistance. It's as though
is he doesn't have an answer, he does have a silly comment. It
wouldn't be so bad if he kept his silliness to one group but he
works hard at dunning and libeling Symantec/Norton at nearly
every chance he gets and never backs any of his comments up with
anything factual, demonstrable, or verifiable.
To my way of thinking, that does not satisfy the MVP
obligations but rather violates several of them. IMO again, he's
using his "title" to be able to propose biased and sometimes
libelous statements as facts rather than baseless opinions, based
on the weight he thinks it gives him.

I could go on as there is a lot more, but that should be enough
to demonstrate at least where I am/was coming from. I simply
decided it was time to take him to task, so rather than complain
to mommy MVP as some are prone to do, I did it here and out in
the open.
I haven't singled him out by any means, because there are a
few others like him, and about four different subjects they like
to think is the "company line", which they are OK to spew forth.
I do not refer to MS by "company line".

So, I can't apologize for anything I said with any honesty and
will not. I will admit I probably went too far and well around
Hogan's Barn in doing so, but it was time someone said it.
I have a nasty habit of saying what I mean, and meaning what I
say about 99.99% of the time. Some people don't like that but
it's the reality of the situation. Besides, it has put his
reliability quotient into the tubes for me; his apparently closed
mind shows clearly in some instances: Where else does it not
show that skews his responses?
And, I've no idea what your $35 charge related to BTW, but
it's not important. I must have missed the reference.

Oh, yes, I've also passed the MVP requirements et al but for
several reasons choose not to use the "title". Actually, I've
made it thru twice with excellent results. My intent was not to
become an MVP, but to figure out just where the heck a few people
were coming from. Thus I was able to get the informaiton first
hand.
The MVP web site, the sites of many MVPs, and most of the people
associated with it and participating are EXCELlent folk, and do a
LOT of good. And they do it properly. I think he needs a few
refresher courses mainly - and to keep an eye out for
interpersonal skills assessments. He's either tired, and/or
burned out, and/or doesn't deserve the "title".

Regards,

Pop`
--
Now, where're my pain meds?
Ah, there they are! Hope they don't
make me too verbose<g>.
------------------------------------
The Most Valuable Professional Program is the way that Microsoft
formally acknowledges the accomplishments of these individuals
for their contributions to community. It is focused on fostering
a vibrant global community where Microsoft and customers learn
about each other through valued ongoing relationships. The key
strategies the program employs are:

a.. Recognize and engage with MVPs worldwide—Identify, enable
and empower community influencers through a consistent quality
customer relationship with Microsoft that spans product groups,
services, and field organizations.
b.. Improve customer connection and satisfaction—Recognize more
customers for their efforts and improve the quality of the
experience on their turf and in their language.
c.. Drive program excellence—Professionalize services, customer
offerings and worldwide roles and responsibilities to become more
predictable and accountable to both internal and external
Microsoft community customers.
 

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