News Reader

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I do not bother to read a lot of bottom posted messages. Especially
on long threads with all of the replies included.

I don't bother to read a lot of top-posted messages. Especially on long
threads with all of the replies included.

I would have to scroll all the way down to the bottom to find out what the
top-posting is in reply to, then scroll all the way back up to read the
reply.

The real issue, as far as I'm concerned, has little to do with whether one
top-posts or bottom posts. It has to do with trimming what's not relevant to
your reply. If you don't trim, and leave lots of irrelevant quoted material,
it takes lots of scrolling to be able to understand your reply. If you trim
adequately, your reply is generally easy to find, read, and understand,
whether it's on the top or the bottom.

 

[Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM]

But it doesn't seem that many email client users understand that, and it
appears to not properly post at the bottom and it doesn't properly snip
signatures.

X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386
Which is evident from your posts.

What about the word 'option' do you not understand?
I, and it should be obvious to you, am using the sane program and version
but with an easy change to options.

 

[Wesley Vogel]

So, why do you still use a email client?

MSIMN.EXE is MicroSoft Internet Mail and News.

X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1807

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Ken

Messages are written for the benefit of the person to whom they are
addressed. Not for the benefit of onlookers. The inclusion of what has
been said previously is not normally included in a letter. I wonder
why it is included in newsgroup messages. Is it another bizarre Usenet
tradition that really has no point. The person receiving the message is
really only interested in what new information he is receiving.

This messages is neither top nor bottom posted!

--

Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England

Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Leythos]

Ken

Messages are written for the benefit of the person to whom they are
addressed. Not for the benefit of onlookers. The inclusion of what has
been said previously is not normally included in a letter. I wonder
why it is included in newsgroup messages. Is it another bizarre Usenet
tradition that really has no point. The person receiving the message is
really only interested in what new information he is receiving.

This messages is neither top nor bottom posted!

Usenet is designed to share with the masses, it's not a medium for
individual to individual communications - it was designed for sharing
with everyone in the group/community.

As such, you have to understand that not all threads are retained on all
servers, some expire before a reader can see the previous post, etc...
The proper method has always been to quote only enough to make your
reply make sense to readers of the thread.

If you reply without quoting your message could be lost and seen without
meaning.

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

I'm 'stuck' with Windows mail now.. and I prefer top posting anyway..

Mike

So does OE if that what you want!

--

~~~~

Gerry

~~~~~~~~
Enquire, plan and execute.
Stourport, England
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

Ken

I always look at the post directly preceding, assuming that I do not have to
scroll down much.. I also tend to read all threads in a bid to ascertain
what has been suggested already.. kind of like starting at page one..

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Leythos

It entirely depends on the purpose of the newsgroup. The purpose here
is for those with knowledge to help those with a problem relating to a
Microsoft product. It is secondary that others may share the benefit of
seeing how particular problems are resolved. You seem to think that
sharing is the primary purpose. I do not agree.

Retention on the Microsoft servers is 90 days. The retention period on
other servers is irrelevant. All who wish to participate in these
newsgroups
have free access on the basis indicated. The inclusion of the content of
earlier messages is not necessary. Few threads last longer than a few
days, so that they will complete long before they expire.

Messages do not get lost because you have not included what went
before. They get lost because they are incorrectly addressed.

--

Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England

Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Wesley Vogel]

Do you like Fords or Chevys better? ;-)

Foreign makes do not count.

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

 

[Flatus Ohlfahrt]

Usenet is designed to share with the masses, it's not a
medium for individual to individual communications - it was
designed for sharing with everyone in the group/community.

As such, you have to understand that not all threads are
retained on all servers, some expire before a reader can
see the previous post, etc... The proper method has always
been to quote only enough to make your reply make sense to
readers of the thread.

If you reply without quoting your message could be lost and
seen without meaning.

You're right that articles are intended for sharing amongst all
subscribers to a particular newsgroup.

And those who say that replies, by convention, are customarily
added at the end of the (growing) article are also right.

And, I remember in the BBS days preceding general availability
of internet newsgroups, one of the occasional posters in one of
the computer related conferences was a guy named Ballmer.

He bottom posted.

So, I don't know how all this stuff about top posting got
started.

Finally, many of the old conventions were adopted when the
standard modem chugged along at a staggering 300-baud. So,
conscientious pruning of lengthy branches made sense, as did
limiting of taglines.

Flatus

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Mike

There's quite a few who don't! It is understandable if the person
doesn't see a message posted in the last 30 minutes but it's
irritating when they ignore messages posted over 6 hours
previously.

--

Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England

Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Customs change. They become outmoded.

--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England

Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Ken

I always look at the post directly preceding, assuming that I do not
have to scroll down much.. I also tend to read all threads in a bid
to ascertain what has been suggested already.. kind of like starting
at page one..

Many newsgroup participants, including me, do not view already-read
messages. They are no longer there to see, so I do not have the choice of
looking at the previous messages in the thread. If I chose to set my
newsreader to view already -read messages, I would have far more messages to
have to scroll through each day, and it would take me much longer to do so.
I'm not interested in doing that.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Do you like Fords or Chevys better? ;-)

No, I don't ;-)

Foreign makes do not count.

They do to me. I like Toyota. ;-)

 

[Hypot]

Top / Bottom Posting is purely matter of taste. You can be
just as sloppy if you bottom post!

Do you read what others have said in a thread before
you post? How do you monitors threads which have caught y
our interest?

I like to read what the previous poster said before I read a new post
in reply. If I read a top posted reply I have to scroll down to read
the previous post then scroll back up to read the reply.

 

[Hypot]

I do not bother to read a lot of bottom posted messages. Especially on long
threads with all of the replies included.

You do not bother to snip either?

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Ken

Not true. You do have the choice but you prefer to exercise
that choice one particular way,

If I understand it correctly you have opted for "Hide Read
Messages" in combination with "Watch Read Messages".
This is a commonly used approach.

An alternative is Show All Messages, Group Messages by
Conversation toggling Replies to my Messages on and off.

Whilst the first approach brings to your attention the replies
to your own messages it can omit other replies in adjacent
sub-threads. The result is that the user can fail to realise
that another correspondent has answered the question
some time ago.

With Replies to my Messages enabled the threads
containing unread messages are immediately obvious.
If threads go off page you can easily realise someone
has replied because, having read all immediately visible
messages the status bar is still showing unread messages.

--

Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England

Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Snipped

They are no longer there to see, so I do not have the choice of

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Hypot

It is more logical to start reading at the top of the thread,
not the penultimate message in the thread. That way you avoid
making a contribution that goes over old ground.

--

~~~~

Gerry

~~~~~~~~
Enquire, plan and execute.
Stourport, England
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Gordon]

Hypot

It is more logical to start reading at the top of the thread,
not the penultimate message in the thread. That way you avoid
making a contribution that goes over old ground.

But you don't read a book from the bottom up, do you?

 

[Leythos]

Customs change. They become outmoded.

No, they just become ignored by people that are self centered.

It's the standard to have nothing below the Sig, so when you quote text
in your reply, your quoted text should be above the Sig and the sig
should be limited to 4-5 lines.

As you can see, your Usenet client is improperly configured and puts the
quoted text below your Sig, which means that any reply using a proper
client will cut it off.