New Server Upgrade

[In Disguise]

What is the best way to upgrade an old Windows 2000 Server to new
hardware? I need to upgrade a server but don't want anyone to notice
any differences, with the exception of the obvious improvements.

The server is Windows 2000 Small Business Server, so I can't add the new
server and have it be a BDC so I can get all the AD information.

TIA!

 

[Dave Patrick]

Try asking them here. x-posted to: public.windows.server.sbs

--

Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
| What is the best way to upgrade an old Windows 2000 Server to new
| hardware? I need to upgrade a server but don't want anyone to notice
| any differences, with the exception of the obvious improvements.
|
| The server is Windows 2000 Small Business Server, so I can't add the new
| server and have it be a BDC so I can get all the AD information.
|
| TIA!

 

[Les Connor [SBS Community Member - SBS MVP]]

Sure you can ;-)

BDC went away with NT. You can add as many servers to SBS as you like, and
promote them all to a DC.

for some help, check out http://www.sbsmigration.com. If it's not live
today, check back in a day or so as there's a possible issue.

 

[Charlie Russel - MVP]

seems to be alive and well. And I second the recommendation. This will do
exactly what you want to do.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/xperts64

Sure you can ;-)

BDC went away with NT. You can add as many servers to SBS as you like, and
promote them all to a DC.

for some help, check out http://www.sbsmigration.com. If it's not live
today, check back in a day or so as there's a possible issue.

Try asking them here. x-posted to: public.windows.server.sbs

--

Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

What is the best way to upgrade an old Windows 2000 Server to new
hardware? I need to upgrade a server but don't want anyone to notice
any differences, with the exception of the obvious improvements.

The server is Windows 2000 Small Business Server, so I can't add the new
server and have it be a BDC so I can get all the AD information.

TIA!

 

[In Disguise]

I was able to add the server to the domain, but I received an error
message when attempting to make it a DC.

Again, this is Windows 2000, not 2003.

Are there any tools to migrate from one server to another for a hardware
upgrade, like you can with NetWare's Migration Utility?
http://download.novell.com/Download?buildid=fxmzE0UYjbs~

 

[Les Connor [SBS Community Member - SBS MVP]]

It shouldn't matter that it's not SBS 2k3, but that just give more ammo to
not only a hardware upgrade - you might seriously consider SBS 2k3 as well.

A good place to start would be the error message.

I'm not aware of a 'utility', so to speak, but you could google search this
newsgroup for 'forklift'. Depending on what kind of fallback position you
have, or can create, you might try it.

The short story is something like this:

a) install storage drivers for the new box, if they're different.
b) set loop-back adapter(s) to hold the network config.
c) image existing system to <whatever can be read by both servers, such as
USB>
d) restore image to new hardware
e) if the box blue-screens, try a repair from CD.
f) deal with ghosted or redundant or non-present devices
h) exchange network settings between the loopback(s) and real nics
i) if nothing works, at least you still have your old server and OS, if not
your hair.

But I'd recommend a swing migration from SBS 2k to SBS 2k3 on new hardware
).

 

[In Disguise]

Spending thousands on a new software version just because Microsoft
didn't have the foresight to create a hardware migration utility isn't
an option. I'm certainly not going to push for it.

I guess it's not in M$'s best interest to make such a thing, as it would
cut into new sale$ instead of helping the customer, IMO.

My intention was to backup/restore and deal with the errors as they come up.

Thanks for your input, just the same.

 

[Les Connor [SBS Community Member - SBS MVP]]

I doubt you'll find anyone that will tell you SBS 2k3 isn't worth the price
of an upgrade from SBS 2k. The upgrade is *hundreds*, not thousands, and
you'll recover that in very short order.

Anyway, when you ask for advice it might not always be what you want to
hear, and you're never bound to accept it ;-).

Backup to different hardware isn't fun, or clean; neither is forklift. A
migration isn't really *fun* either, but it is a process that will get you
to a fully known state as it's essentially a clean installation, but saving
the domain.

 

[In Disguise]

Les,

Even so, it's extra money spent that doesn't need to be. Also, I don't
want to have to upgrade a bunch of client PCs, so there's peripheral
costs to consider.

Of course, when asking one never gets their way 100% of the time. Not
sure why you felt a need to post that. I understand that I'm asking for
advice, not signing a support contract.

I don't know what "forklift" is.

I've migrated dozens of NetWare servers using Novell's free Migration
Utility and have had very little problems with it. Microsoft can make
NetWare to Windows migration utilities, but for some reason, won't do
the same for Windows to Windows.

 

[Les Connor [SBS Community Member - SBS MVP]]

It would be nice if moving to different hardware for windows systems was
easy. But it is what it is, there's no ulterior motive.

I gave you an outline of a forklift (image to different hardware) earlier in
the thread. Many of us have done that, more or less successfully. Many of us
have also decided that swing migration is a better way.

This is Windows; we all chose to be here for one reason or another.

 

[Russ - SBITS.Biz \(MCP SBS\)]

Anytime you move Forward in a software, product there are always things that
need to be left behind.
(for obvious reasons, and change is not always easy. Nightmares of old Novel
Migrations in a former life come to mind.)
It's just the nature of the business IMO..
Some are better than others, and I believe that SBS2003 is Worth the extra
for the change.
(A Monkey can administrate a SBS2003 Server nowadays)

If you need new hardware, a good deal on new Server
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=pe1800sd7&s=bsd

I personally believe if you are going to update the hardware on a 2000
server updating the OS is a logical change.
(Especially when it comes to supporting what you have vs. new)

But if you've read everything about the new product and know everything,
and don't find any value, then I can't say much.

Best of luck

Russ

--
Russell Grover
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
MSN Messenger
Support @ SBITS.Biz
http://www.SBITS.Biz
Search for your answer
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs?lnk=lr&hl=en

It would be nice if moving to different hardware for windows systems was
easy. But it is what it is, there's no ulterior motive.

I gave you an outline of a forklift (image to different hardware) earlier
in the thread. Many of us have done that, more or less successfully. Many
of us have also decided that swing migration is a better way.

This is Windows; we all chose to be here for one reason or another.

--
Les Connor [SBS Community Member - SBS MVP]
-----------------------------------------------------------
SBS Rocks !
----------------------
"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll
understand." - Confucius

Les,

Even so, it's extra money spent that doesn't need to be. Also, I don't
want to have to upgrade a bunch of client PCs, so there's peripheral
costs to consider.

Of course, when asking one never gets their way 100% of the time. Not
sure why you felt a need to post that. I understand that I'm asking for
advice, not signing a support contract.

I don't know what "forklift" is.

I've migrated dozens of NetWare servers using Novell's free Migration
Utility and have had very little problems with it. Microsoft can make
NetWare to Windows migration utilities, but for some reason, won't do the
same for Windows to Windows.

 

[In Disguise]

Les,

I just don't accept "that's the way it is and there's nothing that can
be done" mentality. Necessity is the Mother of Invention, and I'm sure
you've heard that one before.

IF Microsoft wanted to, they could do it. Surely they've created more
complicated pieces of software than this.

FWIW, *I* didn't choose Windows; my customer did. They can't seem to
fathom why I can migrate their NetWare server to new hardware without
being forced to upgrade versions, but can't do the same with their
single Windows server.

Regarding the "forklift", I simply forgot - thanks for clarifying for me.

Thanks again for helping - even bad news is better than no news.

 

[In Disguise]

If you've got "nightmares of old Novel Migrations", then I respectfully
submit you weren't qualified to do it. I've never had a single
"nightmare" when it comes to migrating NetWare, and that goes back to
3.x days with the Migrate.exe utility, and that's been nearly 20 years ago.

You may believe that SBS2003 is worth the extra money and effort - my
client does not. I can't move to migrate to it if they refuse, so the
drumbeating here of "move to SBS2003" means nothing but annoyance and
doesn't do a thing to help solve this issue.

I don't know why you gave a link to purchase a new server. I've already
indicated that they already have a new server in place - they just want
to migrate their data, settings, et al over from old to new without the
users ever knowing the difference.

I don't know of many companies that employ primates, but I'll bear that
in mind, should we ever broach the subject.

If you read the entire thread, I said nothing about not seeing value in
migrating to SBS2003. It simply isn't an option. Why don't you get
that? Why am I beating my head against the wall here?

Is it M$'s policy to ignore what is being asked and simply respond with,
"Upgrade to the latest version of Windows and all of your problems will
be solved"?

Getting frustrating here, to say the least.

Either M$ doesn't have a mechanism in place, their partners / developers
don't, or they do. That's all I'm asking.

 

[In Disguise]

Russ,

One more thing.

Your comment about a monkey being able to administer SBS2003 may come as
a complete insult to those people posting questions needing help with it.

Logically, they are dumber than a primate who can't even dress
themselves in the morning.

 

[SuperGumby [SBS MVP]]

if you believe you need a 'tool' to forklift 2000 from one set of hardware
to another you aren't the right person to be attempting that either.

A functional OS, a plan and the W2K CD are all that are required. (Maybe a
spare HDD and imaging program OR maybe a tape drive and some KB articles)

You are asking your question in the SBS2003 discussion group. Don't want to
get prompted to upgrade? Ask your SBS2000 question in the SBS2000 group.

SBS public Newsgroups:

SBS 4.x: microsoft.public.backoffice.smallbiz
SBS 2000: microsoft.public.backoffice.smallbiz2000
SBS 2003: microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs

if your current news server does not carry the mentioned groups you should
be able to connect directly to news.microsoft.com

I've been working on some pages about changing hardware, the section you
would be interested in isn't halfway complete but this part of the
discussion may be of benefit.

When contemplating such a process there are two major items and a 3rd
significant consideration.

1.. HAL - the Windows Hardware Abstraction Layer.
2.. HDD subsystem.
3.. Network misconfiguration can result in long delays in restart of
Windows Active Directory DC's.
HAL

For Windows to be able to run on the new system it must load a HAL capable
of using the hardware. The easiest way of finding out the 'native' HAL of
the target system is to perform a base OS install and inspect the HAL in
use. If the HAL is the same as that of the existing system the chance of
success is increased. Differences in HALs can be accounted for.

HDD subsystem

This is the HDD's and the controller they are attached to. Windows must be
able to access the drives on the new machine. Even the simplest case of a
single IDE drive (not recommended for servers) may involve different
chipsets. On the whole I've found that lifting an OS IDE-IDE works.

If the target subsystem can be installed into the old server and drivers
loaded the process is much simplified.

Network

Even if moving between identical hardware it may be (is likely in fact) that
devices will be detected differently. Of particular interest are the network
cards. Windows AD DC's do not like starting with improperly configured or
missing network support, they eventually come up, KICKING AND SCREAMING, but
I've seen this take hours and heard stories of "I left it overnight and
she's still sitting at 'Applying computer settings'".

Such slow restarts can be avoided by starting in Directory Services Restore
Mode (DSRM). DSRM is a special mode of operation only applicable to DC's, it
is very similar to Safe Mode. You will see in the following pages that I use
DSRM on the first few restarts of the new system. This allows for the system
to start and detect hardware changes without attempting to load AD.

NOTE: The pages are discussing forklifting SBS2003 to new hardware, but the
principles and practicalities of doing the same to 2000, or indeed NT, are
very similar. I will admit to much fiddling with NT during such a move, I
don't think anyone would have approached it lightly. 2000 is more forgiving
of change and 2003 IMHO easier again.

Again IMHO. The most important thing is to have a fallback strategy. If for
some reason the process cannot be completed you need to be able to undo it
all and return to pre-attempt operation. Design plan B.

 

[In Disguise]

Why is it too much to ask for Microsoft to have a migration tool? They
have Wizards up the yang for everything else, so much so that apparently
primates are employed to administer the servers.

Applying your logic, it seems that if Microsoft doesn't make the tool
for the job, you're too stupid to use it anyway. Nice.

Know how Novell does it?

- Install generic NetWare installation on Destination Server
- Log into both servers as Admin
- Run Migration Utility (tell it which server is source and which is
destination and begin)
- Done. Now you can power off old server and new server takes its'
place and no one knows any difference from the User standpoint.

You can also check the "Migration" section of www.iwantnetware.com to
see how other companies have created migration tools to move off
Windows, and you can see that Microsoft has created tools to move off
other OSes. Why can't they do it for themselves (migrate to new
hardware with the same OS)?

How does Microsoft do it?

- Upgrade to a newer version of Windows

Why is it being posted here? The newsgroup name is
"microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs". Nothing about Windows 2003 SBS
in the title. Besides, I didn't cross post to this newsgroup. One of
the SysOps did it for me. I originally posted in the
"microsoft.public.win2000.setup_upgrade" forum. Please read the thread
from the beginning. You would have caught that.

Look, I didn't come here looking for a fight. All I wanted was some
advice on migrating a Windows 2000 SBS Server to new hardware. That's all.

Is it too much to ask for?

 

[Les Connor [SBS Community Member - SBS MVP]]

Novell likely has a better way than MS to move OS's between hardware, it
wouldn't take much to better the MS approach ;-). I'm pretty sure MS is
aware that improvements would be welcome.

But that's not going to get you where you need to go with the system this
thread is about. There's absolutely no technical reason you need to upgrade
your OS to migrate it to another box - I think the the thread has indicated
two or three approaches that don't involve an OS upgrade.

As this is a windows system we're talking about, we may as well leave novell
out of the discussion. If you want to take the customer from SBS to Novell,
then it sounds like you know Novell has tools for that - a Novell group
would be your best bet for that, it's unlikely anyone here could be of much
help.

If you're not upgrading the OS, work out a plan to migrate the existing OS -
Supergumby has some good information on the process. I realize you don't
think it's worth it (but I think you're mistaken), but the best solution for
you - and the business - is to swing the domain to new hardware (swing
migration) and upgrade to SBS 2k3 in the process. There are a ton of reasons
why ... look at http://www.microsoft.com/sbs and compare the features of 2k3
with 2k.

 

[Les Connor [SBS Community Member - SBS MVP]]

While looking for an answer to another poster, I found this old post and it
may help you.

http://groups.google.ca/group/micro...lnk=gst&q=ghosted+nic&rnum=6#d7c505ecfad7768e

--
Les Connor [SBS Community Member - SBS MVP]
-----------------------------------------------------------
SBS Rocks !
----------------------
"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll
understand." - Confucius

Novell likely has a better way than MS to move OS's between hardware, it
wouldn't take much to better the MS approach ;-). I'm pretty sure MS is
aware that improvements would be welcome.

But that's not going to get you where you need to go with the system this
thread is about. There's absolutely no technical reason you need to
upgrade your OS to migrate it to another box - I think the the thread has
indicated two or three approaches that don't involve an OS upgrade.

As this is a windows system we're talking about, we may as well leave
novell out of the discussion. If you want to take the customer from SBS to
Novell, then it sounds like you know Novell has tools for that - a Novell
group would be your best bet for that, it's unlikely anyone here could be
of much help.

If you're not upgrading the OS, work out a plan to migrate the existing
OS - Supergumby has some good information on the process. I realize you
don't think it's worth it (but I think you're mistaken), but the best
solution for you - and the business - is to swing the domain to new
hardware (swing migration) and upgrade to SBS 2k3 in the process. There
are a ton of reasons why ... look at http://www.microsoft.com/sbs and
compare the features of 2k3 with 2k.

--
Les Connor [SBS Community Member - SBS MVP]
-----------------------------------------------------------
SBS Rocks !
----------------------
"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll
understand." - Confucius

Why is it too much to ask for Microsoft to have a migration tool? They
have Wizards up the yang for everything else, so much so that apparently
primates are employed to administer the servers.

Applying your logic, it seems that if Microsoft doesn't make the tool for
the job, you're too stupid to use it anyway. Nice.

Know how Novell does it?

- Install generic NetWare installation on Destination Server
- Log into both servers as Admin
- Run Migration Utility (tell it which server is source and which is
destination and begin)
- Done. Now you can power off old server and new server takes its'
place and no one knows any difference from the User standpoint.

You can also check the "Migration" section of www.iwantnetware.com to see
how other companies have created migration tools to move off Windows, and
you can see that Microsoft has created tools to move off other OSes. Why
can't they do it for themselves (migrate to new hardware with the same
OS)?

How does Microsoft do it?

- Upgrade to a newer version of Windows

Why is it being posted here? The newsgroup name is
"microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs". Nothing about Windows 2003 SBS in
the title. Besides, I didn't cross post to this newsgroup. One of the
SysOps did it for me. I originally posted in the
"microsoft.public.win2000.setup_upgrade" forum. Please read the thread
from the beginning. You would have caught that.

Look, I didn't come here looking for a fight. All I wanted was some
advice on migrating a Windows 2000 SBS Server to new hardware. That's
all.

Is it too much to ask for?

 

[Russ - SBITS.Biz \(MCP SBS\)]

Try 1.0 to 2.0 to 3.0 Yes 3.2 to 4.0 did have the migration tool
And I don't use my Novel cert anymore in my tag because it's been to long.
(I've blocked that part of my brain out honestly Laugh)

And me giving Free info on a cheap server? I don't know why you got
insulted on?

Honestly if you want to give constructive feedback to Microsoft
Try Microsoft's private newsgroup.

NewsServer: privatenews.micrsoft.com
NewsGroup: microsoft.private.directaccess.partnerfeedback

Details on how to set up it here.
https://partner.microsoft.com/global/40012653?PS=95000014

And given your experance you say you have, I don't have a clue why you find
it hard to migrate?

Russ

--
Russell Grover
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
MSN Messenger
Support @ SBITS.Biz
http://www.SBITS.Biz
Search for your answer
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs?lnk=lr&hl=en

 

[Russ - SBITS.Biz \(MCP SBS\)]

Sorry for all the Monkeys out there..

But compared to all the other Microsoft servers a Monkey can administrate a
SBS2003 Server
Yes My Customers are Monkeys but I love my Monkeys. I give them Bananas all
the time.

Setting it up However takes some knowledge and skill.

Russ

And Clothes? Who Wears Clothes. How Primitive
Thanks for making me laugh! you are funny.

--
Russell Grover
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist.
MCP, MCPS MCNPS, (MCP-SBS)
MSN Messenger
Support @ SBITS.Biz
http://www.SBITS.Biz
Search for your answer
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs?lnk=lr&hl=en