new PC buying paralysis

[jetstar88]

200Mhz Gateway (originally a P-133 that I upgraded) needs replacing
and as the saying goes...."a little bit of knowledge is sometimes
worse than none at all".

Was given to my daughter last year when I built my own (Asus P4T-E
motherboard, Intel 1.6Ghz, 768MB RDRam) mostly from scratch. The store
did me the favor of connecting the Leds, installing the chip, setting
the jumpers and initial CMOS setup, and installing the Video card, but
from there I pretty much did the rest. Had current hard drives and CD
Writer to add and replaced the power supply myself (bought 400 watt,
and the case came with 300 or 350). Kept Win98 and eventually added
Windows XP in dual boot a few months later.

I'm no expert and am not real knowledgeable about some areas like
front bus speeds and the correct form factors for motherboards and
cases, but obviously I know enough that I can assemble a PC [probably]
myself IF I have all the right components on hand. Also fully capable
of purchasing and installing new OS when ready.

But for replacing the second PC in the house (the P-133 my daughter is
using) am in a quandry as to best way to go.

I don't think I saved THAT much if any dollars by building my own, and
yet it did allow me to get a case with enough bays to suit me (to me
all the PC's on the market have way too few....you put in two CDRW's
and you're already out of space!), and also allowed me to spread some
of the cost over time (for instance not replacing the monitor until a
few months later). Overall...I'm satisfied and think it worked for me
personally.

But how often or how much I'll want to add upgrades to my daughter's
PC...I'm not as sure. I don't think I need the expandibility as much
for hers as I felt I did for mine. Then again...do I really want to
have to buy her another new PC in 2 or 3 or 4 years when she needs (or
wants) something that hers is lacking?

Then again...I do not need an internet service provider (as gateway
and dell are so intent on providing for free...even though we all know
its included in the price you pay!) as I already have that. I will
need some kind of network set up so she can be online at the same
times that I am, but am presuming any current PC would have that
capability (though I have no networking expertise yet, I do know I
will need some additional equipment).

Emachines appears to be an option now that I am considering. Are they
made very poorly or is it just lack of expandibility? If there made
badly, am not interested, but Gateway and Dell conversely seem very
high priced for a second PC and are including all kinds of frills
(like so many months of free internet service) that inflate the price
and I see as unnecessary at this time.

Above all... I know that shopping for a PC is very subjective, so no
one here will be able to give me the one single solution.

But am interested in hearing from people who DO know how to build
there own...or mostly...yet did or would consider NOT doing so for
second PC.

Thanks,
Larry

 

[bobb]

As you already found out, building your own doesn't save you any
money, but it allows you customization.

My rule of thumb is, you can upgrade a machine once, *maybe* twice and
that's it. After that, it's usually cheaper to start scratch.

With today's very involved web sites, graphics and sounds, I don't
know how you folks still use dial-up and not be frustrated by it. And
have 2 people using a dialup simultaneously (twice as slow), is just
beyond me. So yes, it's doable, but good Lord, am outta here on this
one.






-bobb

 

[jetstar88]

Yes... that is a good idea, and I have considered giving mine to my
daughter and then looking for a new one for myself. However, there are
two reasons I'd prefer keeping my 1 year-old box.

1) Everything is configured just the way I want on the current PC and
after a lot of trial and error (especially with WinXp Pro, which did
its best to resist my system of having an interchangeable clone of the
OS available on every Hard Drive in my PC) I finally found a reliable
means of cloning XP. Its legal and I would be buying another copy of
XP pro, but would rather not have to go through all that extra
configuring again just yet.

2) The build my own strategy made good sense last year partly cause I
had a lot of parts in my old box that were still relatively current.
Hard drives and CDRW's only a year or two old, etc... But my
daughter's PC has virtually nothing worth retaining, so I'd have to
either buy some of the parts (which I didn't for mine) or buy new
parts for my new "build" this time.

Having said that, I AM still considering a "spiffy" new one for myself
instead. It just seems easier to replace the older PC this time.

But thanks for reminding me of an option that is definitely still
worth consideration.

Larry

 

[jetstar88]

Actually.... I AM thinking seriously of giving my PC to my daughter
and buidling another for myself.

I had forgotten (or buried subconciously) a few things about my PC
that although minor individually, I wish I could go back and do
differently.

I have RDRam. Its supposed to be good, but I believe I have made the
second Beta/VHS mistake of my life. I still have a beta AND it still
works fine after 16 years of moderate use. But we all know the
downside to unsupported hardware and software. I don't need more ram
at this time, but right now it would cost me at least or about
$400-500 to increase my RD RAm from 768 to the 2gig capacity of my
motherboard. And it won't get cheaper if the stop making it (or have
they already???).

And I kind of wish I had gotten an aluminum case, and one that had
some USB jacks in front (again...very minor, but something I wish I
had insisted on....but only occured to me as an afterthought).

The RDram issue would not affect my daughter, nor would the others.

But is that enough justification to get a new PC?

Hmmm.... maybe!!!!

 

[Adam Selene]

Greetings...

200Mhz Gateway (originally a P-133 that I upgraded) needs replacing
and as the saying goes...."a little bit of knowledge is sometimes
worse than none at all".

Pearls of wisdom:

Your daughter's machine should be donated to the SA... You get a tax write off for
nearly the full price of a new machine....

YOU get a new machine for yourself that you can build and tweak to your heart's
content...

Your daughter gets your old machine after you clean off all the stuff she doesn't
need....

Advantages: You will be intimately familiar with both machines and will be able to
provide tech support for your daughter's machine...
The price of YOUR new machine is justifiable - never spend money upgrading old
technology - always invest in new technology. Take the tax write off for donating it to
the SA to help defray the cost...

This way you both get new toys - and depending on the age of your daughter, you may even
be able to give her a bit of technical education, as you teach her how to build a computer
system and a little bit of a home economics lesson...

 

[jetstar88]

Adam,

Sounds good. Only thing stopping me from buying a new PC for myself
now is laziness. Not quite in the shopping mood...yet.

Oh--- What does "SA" stand for?

Salvation Army?

And if so, are they the only charitable organization that do that? Or
do I have to do more of that shopping thing to find out? :-(



Anyway, thank you for your pearl of wisdom. Very much appreciated.

Larry

 

[John Anon]

Then again...I do not need an internet service provider (as gateway
and dell are so intent on providing for free...even though we all know
its included in the price you pay!) as I already have that. I will
need some kind of network set up so she can be online at the same
times that I am, but am presuming any current PC would have that
capability (though I have no networking expertise yet, I do know I
will need some additional equipment).

Emachines appears to be an option now that I am considering. Are they
made very poorly or is it just lack of expandibility? If there made
badly, am not interested, but Gateway and Dell conversely seem very
high priced for a second PC and are including all kinds of frills
(like so many months of free internet service) that inflate the price
and I see as unnecessary at this time.

If you want the M$ software, and have a couple months or so to keep an
eye on Dell prices at techbargains.com, you will be hard-pressed to put
a system together for significantly less than what you can get it for
from Dell (note their special now on Dimension 4600).

I doubt that Dell is paying Earthlink or AOL more than $25 per computer
sold for the free six months, largely because, like you, most people
never collect on it. And I bet they aren't paying Intel $90 for a P4
2.4GHz that you have to pay newegg.com $155 for.

The way to buy from Dell is usually to wait for a good deal, shun most
of the options like extra RAM and bigger hard drives, then do the
upgrades with stuff you buy from OfficeMax or Newegg or Crucial.

If you want to run Linux and have six weeks to collect rebated items
from OfficeMax, etc. and don't need cutting edge performance, you can
beat Dell's price and come out with a system built from high-quality
name-brand components mostly with three-year-or-better warranties. You
can get 256MB PC2100 DDR sticks, NICs, modems, keyboards, and mice free
after rebates. Office Depot had 17" Samsung monitors for $47 AR.
OfficeMax had 40G WD drives for $30 AR. Then get your PSU, case, CPU,
and mobo from newegg.

Linux goes well with year-old hardware because it often takes some time
for somebody to write the Linux drivers for free.

But XP and MS Works together will cost you around $160 per seat, I believe,
which is one reason the Linux market is going to grow a lot in the next
five years.

 

[jetstar88]

John,

DId I mention (I don't think I did) that in addition to wanting the
system to be a good value and meet all of my needs and not meet (at a
price) non-needs, that I am also a very lazy/impatient shopper?

I don't think I have the patience to do it quite the way you have
suggested. Though I do acknowledge its merits and one of the things I
did not like about building my own is the fact that I don't have the
kind of easy warranty coverage I would have by going with a PC maker
like Dell.

If only they offered a bigger case with more bays for the lower or
mid-priced models. I don't need the biggest chip and greatest amount
of Ram right now. What I do insist on, though, is lots of
expandibility (to be able to put the bigger chip in and to have the
option to add tons of RAM later), and buying the case, motherboard,
and chip first, then adding new and used components to that basic
foundation seems to make more sense still.

Unless I'm mistaken and Dell (or Gateway or others) would actually let
me substitute a bigger case as long as I accept the rest of their
assembled system?

My gears are still turning and I haven't ruled out anything yet.

Thanks for your input,
Larry

 

[ToolPackinMama]

I don't think I have the patience to do it quite the way you have
suggested. Though I do acknowledge its merits and one of the things I
did not like about building my own is the fact that I don't have the
kind of easy warranty coverage I would have by going with a PC maker
like Dell.

Why are you here?

 

[ToolPackinMama]

Actually.... I AM thinking seriously of giving my PC to my daughter
and buidling another for myself.

That's the spirit.

 

[ToolPackinMama]

Pearls of wisdom:

Your daughter's machine should be donated to the SA... You get a tax write off for
nearly the full price of a new machine....

YOU get a new machine for yourself that you can build and tweak to your heart's
content...

Your daughter gets your old machine after you clean off all the stuff she doesn't
need....

Advantages: You will be intimately familiar with both machines and will be able to
provide tech support for your daughter's machine...
The price of YOUR new machine is justifiable - never spend money upgrading old
technology - always invest in new technology. Take the tax write off for donating it to
the SA to help defray the cost...

This way you both get new toys - and depending on the age of your daughter, you may even
be able to give her a bit of technical education, as you teach her how to build a computer
system and a little bit of a home economics lesson...

Sounds good to me.

 

[jetstar88]

Its a fair question, based on the paragraph you quoted. But I went on
to mention in that post how important expandability is, which WOULD
probably require a home built PC.

Just can't see buying a PC for myself (though my original post of this
thread involved buying one for my daughter) that doesn't still have at
least 4 bays available, 2 for the CDRWs I already have and 2 more
for....whatever device(s) I might want to add in the future. I have
never seen a case from Gateway, Dell, HP, or Compaq that comes with 4
bays, so buying from them would be a compromise of that need/want.

Still...am a little tentative about matching up the MB with the case,
which would be the first step and require some research of what's
changed in the marketplace since March 2002, thus my hesitancy to rush
into the store and pick out my case just yet.

 

[ToolPackinMama]

Still...am a little tentative about matching up the MB with the case,
which would be the first step and require some research of what's
changed in the marketplace since March 2002, thus my hesitancy to rush
into the store and pick out my case just yet.

Pick the mobo first, and choose the case for the mobo.