New Maxtor 120 GB HDD locks my computer...

[ANTant]

Drive overheating problem?

It can be if its cooler now than when it failed.

Yes, usually.

It failed last night with burn-in tests (don't know how many,
how long, etc. -- not enough information from Maxtor's DiskMax).

Yeah, there are a few around like http://www.nu2.nu/utils

I don't think I need another utility after last night's test. Now, need
to determine if I need another HDD or is it a cooling problem. I am
thinking it is a heat issue since it takes an hour or so to reproduce
the problem. I turn off the machine when I am at work so the box is
cool down when I turn it home after work. I wished HDDs had temperature
sensors.
--
"No, I'd prefer a cooler WITHOUT an ant-door, thank you..." --unknown
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[Rod Speed]

It failed last night with burn-in tests (don't know how many,
how long, etc. -- not enough information from Maxtor's DiskMax).

I don't think I need another utility after last night's test. Now, need
to determine if I need another HDD or is it a cooling problem.

Or its a problem with the VIA chipset. Thats another real possibility.
They're absolutely notorious for that sort of variable problem.

I am thinking it is a heat issue since it takes an hour or
so to reproduce the problem. I turn off the machine when
I am at work so the box is cool down when I turn it home
after work. I wished HDDs had temperature sensors.

They do, thats what the SMART temperature sensors I have been referring
to are. Try SiSoft Sandra and see what it shows the temperature as.

 

[ANTant]

Drive overheating problem?

Or its a problem with the VIA chipset. Thats another real possibility.
They're absolutely notorious for that sort of variable problem.

Is there a non-Windows utility to check this?

They do, thats what the SMART temperature sensors I have been referring
to are. Try SiSoft Sandra and see what it shows the temperature as.

OK. I will check those out. I used to have Sandra and IBM SMART programs
but they never told me the temperature numbers on my old two HDDs
(Quantum and IBM).
--
"No, I'd prefer a cooler WITHOUT an ant-door, thank you..." --unknown
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[Rod Speed]

Is there a non-Windows utility to check this?

Fraid not.

OK. I will check those out. I used to have Sandra and IBM
SMART programs but they never told me the temperature
numbers on my old two HDDs (Quantum and IBM).

Yeah, the SMART temperature sensor came later.

 

[ANTant]

I am at work so the box is cool down when I turn it home

Yeah, the SMART temperature sensor came later.

OK, I played with SpeedFan at work. Nice program. My work's IBM HDD
is 108 degrees(F). I will try it at home in a few hours. How hot should
HDDs be OK with? I hope it won't be 150.
--
"No, I'd prefer a cooler WITHOUT an ant-door, thank you..." --unknown
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[Rod Speed]

OK, I played with SpeedFan at work. Nice program.

Yeah, very simple to install and use.

My work's IBM HDD is 108 degrees(F).

Thats reasonable, 40C

I will try it at home in a few hours. How hot should HDDs be OK with?

I wouldnt personally run them any warmer than 11F for
any length of time. The manufacturer's data sheet allows
quite a bit higher than that tho. Varys with the particular drive.

I hope it won't be 150.

Heard the one about hope springs eternal ? |-)

 

[JM]

I don't think I will be needing this. It doesn't appear to be an OS
problem after getting results from Maxtor's DiskMax program (disk
tester) with its burn-in feature. It failed.

It seems like I have a heat problem since the lock ups and symptoms
only appear after an hour or so uptime on my computer. What do you
think?

If it was mine I would run the drive and do the tests with the drive on a
normal IDE channel and if the problem persists then obviously the drive is
faulty rather than it being a problem specific to the Promise controller or
it's drivers. I don't profess to being any sort of expert but the original
problem you mentioned of the drive timing out and subsequent error message
is one I experienced under a particular driver on the Promise onboard
controller and is why I replied to that specific issue.

 

[Steve Knoblock]

My 6Y 120PO is running at 29* C right now. It has an i-storm cooler in front
of it---my case is fairly compact.

On a warm day it will see 38* under load.

I would not feel comfortable with anything at 41* or over.

Do a google for "DTemp" a little software to monitor the temps.

I am wary of this drive. My previous Maxtor is and was a very quiet,
effecient, reliable, quick drive, much more than the many WD's I replaced it
with.This drive has a very loud actuator and sounds like the old WD's. My
other Maxtor was virtually silent. In the 120, I hear a repeated clunking
sound sometimes that always preceeded WD's failures. Although this could be
the calibration, it could also be seeking 0 on me. It does sound odd and I
don't like it.

Also, I thought the 8MB cache would speed things up, but often it does a
"Win 3.1" on me, where you hear it flushing the cache to the drive in one
long noisy process, like the old Windows when it would sit there thrashing
the virtual memory. The system seems to slow down when it does this, the
opposite of what I'd expect the big cache to do.

Steve

 

[ANTant]

I am at work so the box is cool down when I turn it home

Yeah, very simple to install and use.

Thats reasonable, 40C

I wouldnt personally run them any warmer than 11F for
any length of time. The manufacturer's data sheet allows
quite a bit higher than that tho. Varys with the particular drive.

I ran SpeedFan v4.09 (cool utility!!) and its SMART results said OK. The
first lock up of the day showed Maxtor HDD at 82 degrees(F) at about 11:30
PM PDT when I playing back a video file (not intensive disk read) for
about a minute.

Maxtor HDD: Started with 77 degrees(F) before 9:00 PM PDT.
82 at 9:42 PM PDT.
82 at 10:18 PM PDT; IBM HDD was 113. Room temperature was
about 77.
82 at 10:30ish PM PDT when HDD lock up occurred.


82 degrees(F) doesn't seem that hot for a HDD. My IBM HDD is currently at
113! That's hot! Are the temperature readings accurate in SpeedFan? No
temperature available for Quantum HDD.

So, now what? I guess I can try more fiddling later tonight and follow-up
with more numbers. Do we still think this is a heat issue? The weather is
A LOT cooler tonight than last night (10 degress different).
--
"No, I'd prefer a cooler WITHOUT an ant-door, thank you..." --unknown
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( )

 

[ANTant]

I ran SpeedFan v4.09 (cool utility!!) and its SMART results said OK. The
first lock up of the day showed Maxtor HDD at 82 degrees(F) at about 11:30
PM PDT when I playing back a video file (not intensive disk read) for
about a minute.

Maxtor HDD: Started with 77 degrees(F) before 9:00 PM PDT.
82 at 9:42 PM PDT.
82 at 10:18 PM PDT; IBM HDD was 113. Room temperature was
about 77.
82 at 10:30ish PM PDT when HDD lock up occurred.


82 degrees(F) doesn't seem that hot for a HDD. My IBM HDD is currently at
113! That's hot! Are the temperature readings accurate in SpeedFan? No
temperature available for Quantum HDD.

So, now what? I guess I can try more fiddling later tonight and follow-up
with more numbers. Do we still think this is a heat issue? The weather is
A LOT cooler tonight than last night (10 degress different).

Uh oh, I think I am back to the original problem before I replaced the
ribbon cable as noted in my original post.

I went to play a game demo for about ten minutes. I wasn't using my new
drive, but I guess Windows XP still touches it. The new drive only has
video files. You know games make heat a lot especially from CPU and video
card. I heard a few clutching noises during gameplay.

Then, the computer locked up with a stuck HDD light. I resetted the
computer to reboot, then my Promise BIOS could NOT find the HDD like the
original symptom before I changed the ribbon cable. I have no idea how
hot the Maxtor HDD since the game was full screen and I had to reboot.
Just for kicks, my BIOS finally found the HDD but frozed while trying to
load Windows XP. Of course, more clutching noises.

I rebooted to use Maxtor PowerMax v4.06 and I ran a full scan (not
burn-in). I heard more clutching noises! PowerMax failed. Here's what I
did notice:

Every time a clutch noise was heard, my HDD light goes out. Now, that
is reversed like in Windows. Then, the HDD light comes back on and
another clutch. Repeat this a few more times, and PowerMax gives me
a fail error.

I reboot and sometimes BIOS just freezes when trying to find HDD and
I hear the clutch noise. Even hitting alt-ctrl-del keys make that
noise! Sheesh!

Oy! Still sounds like heat issue to me! I think I will try cooking
my box with disabled controller and then re-enabled to do Maxtor HDD
access to see if it is indeed heat-related. Also, have SpeedFan
running to see temperatures.

Anyways, I got back in Windows successfully. Maxtor HDD was about 82
degrees(F). Still not hot to me, but I don't know about HDDs that well.
I disabled the Raid & SCSI controller in device manager before I get
more lockups. Here's what is weird. I still heard clucking noises even
though the controller driver was disabled. No lockups with it disabled.
What's going on?

I'm tired, time for bed! :>
--
"No, I'd prefer a cooler WITHOUT an ant-door, thank you..." --unknown
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( )

 

[Tony Hwang]

Uh oh, I think I am back to the original problem before I replaced the
ribbon cable as noted in my original post.

I went to play a game demo for about ten minutes. I wasn't using my new
drive, but I guess Windows XP still touches it. The new drive only has
video files. You know games make heat a lot especially from CPU and video
card. I heard a few clutching noises during gameplay.

Then, the computer locked up with a stuck HDD light. I resetted the
computer to reboot, then my Promise BIOS could NOT find the HDD like the
original symptom before I changed the ribbon cable. I have no idea how
hot the Maxtor HDD since the game was full screen and I had to reboot.
Just for kicks, my BIOS finally found the HDD but frozed while trying to
load Windows XP. Of course, more clutching noises.

I rebooted to use Maxtor PowerMax v4.06 and I ran a full scan (not
burn-in). I heard more clutching noises! PowerMax failed. Here's what I
did notice:

Every time a clutch noise was heard, my HDD light goes out. Now, that
is reversed like in Windows. Then, the HDD light comes back on and
another clutch. Repeat this a few more times, and PowerMax gives me
a fail error.

I reboot and sometimes BIOS just freezes when trying to find HDD and
I hear the clutch noise. Even hitting alt-ctrl-del keys make that
noise! Sheesh!

Oy! Still sounds like heat issue to me! I think I will try cooking
my box with disabled controller and then re-enabled to do Maxtor HDD
access to see if it is indeed heat-related. Also, have SpeedFan
running to see temperatures.

Anyways, I got back in Windows successfully. Maxtor HDD was about 82
degrees(F). Still not hot to me, but I don't know about HDDs that well.
I disabled the Raid & SCSI controller in device manager before I get
more lockups. Here's what is weird. I still heard clucking noises even
though the controller driver was disabled. No lockups with it disabled.
What's going on?

I'm tired, time for bed! :>

Hi,
It could be just bad drive which is not tolerant to temp rise.
That clunking noise is drive going ready and getting device
attention(off line = device fault). Back and forth, back and forth.
If you really want to prove it is temp issue on a marginal drive,
install a fan for temporary to cool the drive. Keep it really cool and
see what happens. New drive could be DOA but some times it can be
operable but not within it's design spec. due to some marginal or
intermittent component within.
Tony

 

[Rod Speed]

I ran SpeedFan v4.09 (cool utility!!) and its SMART results said OK. The
first lock up of the day showed Maxtor HDD at 82 degrees(F) at about 11:30
PM PDT when I playing back a video file (not intensive disk read) for
about a minute.

Maxtor HDD: Started with 77 degrees(F) before 9:00 PM PDT.
82 at 9:42 PM PDT.
82 at 10:18 PM PDT; IBM HDD was 113. Room temperature was
about 77.
82 at 10:30ish PM PDT when HDD lock up occurred.

82 degrees(F) doesn't seem that hot for a HDD.

Yeah, thats fine. The problem is likey use of the Promise
card with a motherboard with a VIA chipset. As someone
suggested, I'd now try that Maxtor on one of the motherboard
cables and I bet it wont lockup in that config.

My IBM HDD is currently at 113! That's hot!

Yeah, thats getting up a bit. I personally avoid
drives that get that warm, Seagate Barracudas too.

I avoid IBMs for other reasons too.

Are the temperature readings accurate in SpeedFan?

Yep. And you can use Dtemp to check, but since they are using
the SMART temperature, they should give the same answer.

No temperature available for Quantum HDD.

Yeah, bit elderly for that.

So, now what?

Do that test with the Maxtor on a motherboard cable.

I guess I can try more fiddling later tonight and follow-up
with more numbers. Do we still think this is a heat issue?
Nope.

The weather is A LOT cooler tonight
than last night (10 degress different).

Yeah, while the Maxtor will get hotter when its that hot, the
temp is nothing special. You likely wont like the temp the IBM
gets to when the room temp is rather higher than now tho.

 

[Rod Speed]

Uh oh, I think I am back to the original problem before I replaced the
ribbon cable as noted in my original post.

I went to play a game demo for about ten minutes. I wasn't using my new
drive, but I guess Windows XP still touches it. The new drive only has
video files. You know games make heat a lot especially from CPU and video
card. I heard a few clutching noises during gameplay.

Then, the computer locked up with a stuck HDD light. I resetted the
computer to reboot, then my Promise BIOS could NOT find the HDD like the
original symptom before I changed the ribbon cable. I have no idea how
hot the Maxtor HDD since the game was full screen and I had to reboot.
Just for kicks, my BIOS finally found the HDD but frozed while trying to
load Windows XP. Of course, more clutching noises.

I rebooted to use Maxtor PowerMax v4.06 and I ran a full scan (not
burn-in). I heard more clutching noises! PowerMax failed. Here's what I
did notice:

Every time a clutch noise was heard, my HDD light goes out. Now, that
is reversed like in Windows. Then, the HDD light comes back on and
another clutch. Repeat this a few more times, and PowerMax gives me
a fail error.

I reboot and sometimes BIOS just freezes when trying to find HDD and
I hear the clutch noise. Even hitting alt-ctrl-del keys make that
noise! Sheesh!

Oy! Still sounds like heat issue to me! I think I will try cooking
my box with disabled controller and then re-enabled to do Maxtor HDD
access to see if it is indeed heat-related. Also, have SpeedFan
running to see temperatures.

Anyways, I got back in Windows successfully. Maxtor HDD was about 82
degrees(F). Still not hot to me, but I don't know about HDDs that well.

Yeah, thats quite acceptible. It may just be a flakey drive
and the fault has nothing to do with the temperature at all.

I'd run it on one of the motherboard cables
as a basic check for the drive being flakey.

I disabled the Raid & SCSI controller in device manager before I get
more lockups. Here's what is weird. I still heard clucking noises even
though the controller driver was disabled. No lockups with it disabled.

Thats does make it more likely that the problem is the Promise,
maybe when used with a VIA chipset on the motherboard.

What's going on?

Your PC is jerking you around. They love doing that |-)

I'm tired, time for bed! :>

Just dont go and hang yourself, it will have won if you do |-)

 

[ANTant]

Yeah, thats fine. The problem is likey use of the Promise
card with a motherboard with a VIA chipset. As someone
suggested, I'd now try that Maxtor on one of the motherboard
cables and I bet it wont lockup in that config.

If it does, then what should I do? I don't really want to
replace an older drive. Get a controller card that someone
suggested?

Yeah, thats getting up a bit. I personally avoid
drives that get that warm, Seagate Barracudas too.

I don't know. I have had this drive for YEARS. I believe
it is right next to the HDD cooler.

I avoid IBMs for other reasons too.

I hear you. I had one at work and it died slowly. I haven't had
that happened at home though.

Yep. And you can use Dtemp to check, but since they are using
the SMART temperature, they should give the same answer.

I will try Dtemp tonight!

Yeah, bit elderly for that.

And it hasn't failed me. It's older than my IBM HDD. Good HDD!

Do that test with the Maxtor on a motherboard cable.
OK.

Nope.

I will skip the heat part. You know what. I never noticed the
HDD problems even in a 85 degrees room after turning on my machine.
I would notice the problem if my room is already warm (warmer than
82 degrees)!

It still doesn't make any sense why I don't get the symptoms until
an hour or so later. That totally sound like a heat issue. We'll see
what Dtemp has to say in a few hours.

Yeah, while the Maxtor will get hotter when its that hot, the
temp is nothing special. You likely wont like the temp the IBM
gets to when the room temp is rather higher than now tho.

--
"No, I'd prefer a cooler WITHOUT an ant-door, thank you..." --unknown
/\___/\
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[Rod Speed]

If it does, then what should I do?

I wouldnt worry about the possibilitys
yet, see what that test proves first.

I don't really want to replace an older drive.

Thats generally the best approach tho. Surely the older
drive is only a tiny part of the capacity of the new one ?

Get a controller card that someone suggested?

I'd personally scrap the smallest old drive.

I don't know. I have had this drive for YEARS.
I believe it is right next to the HDD cooler.

I hear you. I had one at work and it died slowly.
I haven't had that happened at home though.

Its going to blow up in your face and
cover you with black stuff now |-)

I will try Dtemp tonight!

Funny little thing. I've just discovered that if you run it on
XP Pro, Drive Image wont start when its running. Never
noticed that before. Nice clean SMART data display tho.

And it hasn't failed me.

My Quantum Sirrocco did.

It's older than my IBM HDD. Good HDD!

Way past its useby date |-)

I will skip the heat part. You know what. I never
noticed the HDD problems even in a 85 degrees room
after turning on my machine. I would notice the problem
if my room is already warm (warmer than 82 degrees)!

Its probably those two dinosaur drives giving the shiny new
Maxtor a good kicking out of jealousy, when you arent looking.

You can get that effect with a new dog on the block.

It still doesn't make any sense why I don't get the symptoms
until an hour or so later. That totally sound like a heat issue.

Yeah, tho thats exactly what you can get with
VIA chipsets, just that sort of very variable
behaviour. They're absolutely notorious for it.

We'll see what Dtemp has to say in a few hours.

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That looks very like the logo on the DTemp sight.

Looks like DTemp might just have been waiting for you |-)

 

[ANTant]

My IBM HDD is currently at 113! That's hot!

Its going to blow up in your face and
cover you with black stuff now |-)

Heh. I think anything can blow up on me. Keyword: BACKUP!

Funny little thing. I've just discovered that if you run it on
XP Pro, Drive Image wont start when its running. Never
noticed that before. Nice clean SMART data display tho.

Temperature readings are similiar like SpeedFan.

My Quantum Sirrocco did.

I never heard of that. Fireball still lives for me. :>

Way past its useby date |-)
Heh.

Haven't done this yet. Probably this Friday night when I am
ready to rip this case open. :>

Its probably those two dinosaur drives giving the shiny new
Maxtor a good kicking out of jealousy, when you arent looking.

You can get that effect with a new dog on the block.
LOL.

Yeah, tho thats exactly what you can get with
VIA chipsets, just that sort of very variable
behaviour. They're absolutely notorious for it.
Ugh!

That looks very like the logo on the DTemp sight.

Looks like DTemp might just have been waiting for you |-)

Are you drunk tonight? OK, I am not! So far, I haven't heard any
clucking noises and experienced any lock ups. Very weird. It has
already been 4.25 hours already! Currently, the temperatures of two
HDDs are 115 (IBM) and 79 (Maxtor) with similar room temperature (mid
70s). I did see maxtor go high as 84 without any problems. I NAV
scanned, played a game demo, recorded a TV show with the ATI card,
watched it, etc. Weird!

I did discover new, but I don't know if this has any relationship to
the HDD problem. See
http://home.apu.edu/~philpi/temp/MaxtorHDD/Neg12Vhigh.gif ... Can that
be the cause? ASUS PC Probe doesn't show -12V information. I wonder...
Disabling SCSI and RAID controller in XP doesn't change the value.

I think I will fiddle with this HDD some more. I think my computer is
cursing me! :>
--
"No, I'd prefer a cooler WITHOUT an ant-door, thank you..." --unknown
/\___/\
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\ _ / Remove ANT if replying by e-mail from a newsgroup.
( )

 

[ANTant]

I ran SpeedFan v4.09 (cool utility!!) and its SMART results
Just curious. Can ribbon cable be affected by enromous heat? I wonder
if the cable gets damaged after being too hot. Remember that I had
problems before replacing the cable and my computer was happy for over
a day. After 4.5 hours today, no lock ups and clucking noises so far.
In the past, symptoms occur after an hour or so (not today so far). The
motherboard's temperature is currently at 106 degrees(F). Last night was
109-110 I think.
--
"No, I'd prefer a cooler WITHOUT an ant-door, thank you..." --unknown
/\___/\
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\ _ / Remove ANT if replying by e-mail from a newsgroup.
( )

 

[Rod Speed]

Heh. I think anything can blow up on me.

You could be right.

Keyword: BACKUP!

Tad radical.

Temperature readings are similiar like SpeedFan.

Yeah, and rather more elegantly displayed too.

I never heard of that. Fireball still lives for me. :>

They aint called Fireballs for nuffin.

I recon whoever chose to call them that must know something.

Haven't done this yet. Probably this Friday night
when I am ready to rip this case open. :>

Probably a good idea to get blotto first too |-)

Ugh!

Yeah, unfortunately its the most expensive to change.

Are you drunk tonight?

That was posted at lunchtime, and I certainly wasnt drunk |-)

OK, I am not!

Why not ?

So far, I haven't heard any clucking noises

Yeah, thats a point, forgot about those. That makes it rather less likely
its a VIA chipset problem and much more likely its just a flakey drive.

and experienced any lock ups. Very weird.
It has already been 4.25 hours already!

Thats why intermittent faults can be such a pain.

Currently, the temperatures of two HDDs are 115 (IBM)
and 79 (Maxtor) with similar room temperature (mid 70s).
I did see maxtor go high as 84 without any problems.

Yeah, those temps are nothing to worry about.

I NAV scanned, played a game demo, recorded a
TV show with the ATI card, watched it, etc. Weird!

I did discover new, but I don't know if this
has any relationship to the HDD problem. See
http://home.apu.edu/~philpi/temp/MaxtorHDD/Neg12Vhigh.gif ...
Can that be the cause?

Nope, hardly anything uses the -12V rail anymore. No disk drives do.

ASUS PC Probe doesn't show -12V information. I wonder...

Nar, cant be that. Might conceivably indicate that the power
supply is flakey and that thats whats causing the odd noises
from the drive when it cant maintain the +12V rail properly tho.

Disabling SCSI and RAID controller in XP doesn't change the value.

Yeah, it shouldnt.

I think I will fiddle with this HDD some more.

Be careful, it might claim you have molested it.

I think my computer is cursing me! :>

Very likely. You said nasty things about it and its getting its revenge.

--
"No, I'd prefer a cooler WITHOUT an ant-door, thank you..." --unknown
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Are you really that ugly ?

 

[Rod Speed]

Just curious.

You know what that did to the cat dont you ?

Can ribbon cable be affected by enromous heat?

Yes, but it would have to be awfully hot to melt the plastic.

I wonder if the cable gets damaged after being too hot.

Not at the temps you are seeing.

Remember that I had problems before replacing the
cable and my computer was happy for over a day.
After 4.5 hours today, no lock ups and clucking noises
so far. In the past, symptoms occur after an hour or so
(not today so far). The motherboard's temperature is
currently at 106 degrees(F). Last night was 109-110 I think.

None of those will damage the ribbon cable.

Its much more likely its just a flakey drive and the fault just comes
and goes and doesnt have anything to do with temperature.

You shouldnt be getting that clunking from anything
outside the drive except possibly the power supply.

Can you easily try another ?

--
"No, I'd prefer a cooler WITHOUT an ant-door, thank you..." --unknown
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Heard the one about putting a bag over your head if you are really ugly ?

 

[ANTant]

Yeah, thats a point, forgot about those. That makes it rather less likely

its a VIA chipset problem and much more likely its just a flakey drive.

I am going to try another HDD brand. I hope it is not the chipset!

Thats why intermittent faults can be such a pain.

OK, it finally locked up! No clucking noises today though. HDD light
was on during the lockup. It happened before 2:30 AM PDT. It took
about 6.5 hours since I powered up the box. I tried to make the box
hot earlier to see if it was related to heat. Nope.

Yeah, those temps are nothing to worry about.

Nope, hardly anything uses the -12V rail anymore. No disk drives do.

OK. I wasn't sure. Hardware isn't my area.

Nar, cant be that. Might conceivably indicate that the power
supply is flakey and that thats whats causing the odd noises
from the drive when it cant maintain the +12V rail properly tho.

If it was flakey, I would have other problems right? Also, voltage in
SpeedFan and ASUS PC Probe don't jump and fall madly.

Yeah, it shouldnt.

Be careful, it might claim you have molested it.
Haha!

Very likely. You said nasty things about it and its getting its revenge.

And now my cable modem is down. I am on dial-up. Oy! Curse. Time for bed.
I will check later in the day.
--
"No, I'd prefer a cooler WITHOUT an ant-door, thank you..." --unknown
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