Network Topology complications

[Guest]

I setup a small network at home mostly to share the Internet out of our cable
modem. I'm a novice in this Windows Home Networking stuff, so I don't
understand why machine 1 (see diagram below) can't share printers with the
others, or even join the same workgroup. In the following diagram I will try
to show you the best I can how is this network set up:

192.168.0.1
CABLEMODEM ----> [Router Dlink DI604] -----> MACHINE 1 (winxpHE)
|
|
V 192.168.1.1
[wireless Router Linksys WRT54G] --------> MACHINE 2
(winxpHE)
= = =
= = = (wireless
connection)
= = =
MACHINE 3 MACHINE 4 MACHINE 5
(winxpHE) (win98SE) (winxpPE)

In this diagram, that I hope is clear enough, the lines represent network
cables and the = lines represent wireless connections. The OSs for each
machine are between (). The IP for each router is shown above the router.
Machines 3,4,5 and 6 can share printers and join the same workgroup, say,
MYHOME. But Machine 1 refuses to do so, when I follow the wizard and tell it
the workgroup is MYHOME, after reboot, it doesn't see any other machines
belonging to that workgroup and all the others can't see machine 1. I imagine
that the fact that the routers having different IPs and the way they are
connected is the cause, but I hope there is a workaround to make every
machine see each other; the reason for this topology is that the cable modem
is fixed in one location close to machine 1, where there is very poor
wireless connectivity, and I use the Dlink Router to receive the WAN from the
Cable modem, and distribute it with network cable to machine 1 and the
Linksys wireless router, which is 80ft away and in a position on the house
that let all the other machines get a very good signal. It's very hard to
change this arrangement, and the only long network cable that is not
obstrusive is the one between both routers.
Sorry for this long post, but I needed to explain the situation to get
better help.
Please let me know what do I need to change in Machine 1 or configure in
either/both routers to get this to work.
Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[Chuck]

I setup a small network at home mostly to share the Internet out of our cable
modem. I'm a novice in this Windows Home Networking stuff, so I don't
understand why machine 1 (see diagram below) can't share printers with the
others, or even join the same workgroup. In the following diagram I will try
to show you the best I can how is this network set up:

192.168.0.1
CABLEMODEM ----> [Router Dlink DI604] -----> MACHINE 1 (winxpHE)
|
|
V 192.168.1.1
[wireless Router Linksys WRT54G] --------> MACHINE 2
(winxpHE)
= = =
= = = (wireless
connection)
= = =
MACHINE 3 MACHINE 4 MACHINE 5
(winxpHE) (win98SE) (winxpPE)

In this diagram, that I hope is clear enough, the lines represent network
cables and the = lines represent wireless connections. The OSs for each
machine are between (). The IP for each router is shown above the router.
Machines 3,4,5 and 6 can share printers and join the same workgroup, say,
MYHOME. But Machine 1 refuses to do so, when I follow the wizard and tell it
the workgroup is MYHOME, after reboot, it doesn't see any other machines
belonging to that workgroup and all the others can't see machine 1. I imagine
that the fact that the routers having different IPs and the way they are
connected is the cause, but I hope there is a workaround to make every
machine see each other; the reason for this topology is that the cable modem
is fixed in one location close to machine 1, where there is very poor
wireless connectivity, and I use the Dlink Router to receive the WAN from the
Cable modem, and distribute it with network cable to machine 1 and the
Linksys wireless router, which is 80ft away and in a position on the house
that let all the other machines get a very good signal. It's very hard to
change this arrangement, and the only long network cable that is not
obstrusive is the one between both routers.
Sorry for this long post, but I needed to explain the situation to get
better help.
Please let me know what do I need to change in Machine 1 or configure in
either/both routers to get this to work.
Thanks a lot in advance!

Is the DLink directly connected to the Linksys? The diagram makes it look like
Computer 1 is connected between the DLink and Linksys routers. If the Linksys
WAN link is directly connected to one of the LAN ports on the DLink, then your
solution is easy. Put all 5 computers on the same subnet - make the Linksys
into a WAP, not a router.
# Disable the DHCP server on the Linksys.
# Connect the cable from the DLink LAN to one of the LAN Ports on the Linksys.
# Change the Linksys LAN port to 192.168.0.2.
# Make sure the DHCP scope on the DLink doesn't include 192.168.0.2.
# Restart each computer. Each should come up on 192.168.0/24, now the same
subnet as Computer 1.

 

[Guest]

Thank you Chuck for your quick response!
Regarding your question, yes, the Dlink is connected to the linksys via a
network cable, from one of its LAN ports to the WAN port in the linksys. I
will try your recommendations when I get back home tonight. Please let me
know if I understood correctly:
1) Disable the DHCP server on the linksys
2) Connect the cable from the DLink LAN to one of the LAN ports on the
Linksys (instead of connecting it to the WAN port, as it is now?)
3) Change the Linksys LAN Port (the one connected to the Dlink, that used to
be plug into the WAN port?) to 192.168.0.2
4) Make sure the DHCP scope on the DLink doesn't include 192.168.0.2
5) Restart each computer. Each should come up on 192.168.(0..24?).(or
0..24?) (what is the part of the IP address that will vary from computer to
computer in this subnet, the last number, or the third?)

I hope you can clarify these little things for me. As you see, I don't know
much about TCP/IP networking

Thank you for your help Chuck!

I setup a small network at home mostly to share the Internet out of our cable
modem. I'm a novice in this Windows Home Networking stuff, so I don't
understand why machine 1 (see diagram below) can't share printers with the
others, or even join the same workgroup. In the following diagram I will try
to show you the best I can how is this network set up:

192.168.0.1
CABLEMODEM ----> [Router Dlink DI604] -----> MACHINE 1 (winxpHE)
|
|
V 192.168.1.1
[wireless Router Linksys WRT54G] --------> MACHINE 2
(winxpHE)
= = =
= = = (wireless
connection)
= = =
MACHINE 3 MACHINE 4 MACHINE 5
(winxpHE) (win98SE) (winxpPE)

In this diagram, that I hope is clear enough, the lines represent network
cables and the = lines represent wireless connections. The OSs for each
machine are between (). The IP for each router is shown above the router.
Machines 3,4,5 and 6 can share printers and join the same workgroup, say,
MYHOME. But Machine 1 refuses to do so, when I follow the wizard and tell it
the workgroup is MYHOME, after reboot, it doesn't see any other machines
belonging to that workgroup and all the others can't see machine 1. I imagine
that the fact that the routers having different IPs and the way they are
connected is the cause, but I hope there is a workaround to make every
machine see each other; the reason for this topology is that the cable modem
is fixed in one location close to machine 1, where there is very poor
wireless connectivity, and I use the Dlink Router to receive the WAN from the
Cable modem, and distribute it with network cable to machine 1 and the
Linksys wireless router, which is 80ft away and in a position on the house
that let all the other machines get a very good signal. It's very hard to
change this arrangement, and the only long network cable that is not
obstrusive is the one between both routers.
Sorry for this long post, but I needed to explain the situation to get
better help.
Please let me know what do I need to change in Machine 1 or configure in
either/both routers to get this to work.
Thanks a lot in advance!

Is the DLink directly connected to the Linksys? The diagram makes it look like
Computer 1 is connected between the DLink and Linksys routers. If the Linksys
WAN link is directly connected to one of the LAN ports on the DLink, then your
solution is easy. Put all 5 computers on the same subnet - make the Linksys
into a WAP, not a router.
# Disable the DHCP server on the Linksys.
# Connect the cable from the DLink LAN to one of the LAN Ports on the Linksys.
# Change the Linksys LAN port to 192.168.0.2.
# Make sure the DHCP scope on the DLink doesn't include 192.168.0.2.
# Restart each computer. Each should come up on 192.168.0/24, now the same
subnet as Computer 1.

 

[Chuck]

I setup a small network at home mostly to share the Internet out of our cable
modem. I'm a novice in this Windows Home Networking stuff, so I don't
understand why machine 1 (see diagram below) can't share printers with the
others, or even join the same workgroup. In the following diagram I will try
to show you the best I can how is this network set up:

192.168.0.1
CABLEMODEM ----> [Router Dlink DI604] -----> MACHINE 1 (winxpHE)
|
|
V 192.168.1.1
[wireless Router Linksys WRT54G] --------> MACHINE 2
(winxpHE)
= = =
= = = (wireless
connection)
= = =
MACHINE 3 MACHINE 4 MACHINE 5
(winxpHE) (win98SE) (winxpPE)

In this diagram, that I hope is clear enough, the lines represent network
cables and the = lines represent wireless connections. The OSs for each
machine are between (). The IP for each router is shown above the router.
Machines 3,4,5 and 6 can share printers and join the same workgroup, say,
MYHOME. But Machine 1 refuses to do so, when I follow the wizard and tell it
the workgroup is MYHOME, after reboot, it doesn't see any other machines
belonging to that workgroup and all the others can't see machine 1. I imagine
that the fact that the routers having different IPs and the way they are
connected is the cause, but I hope there is a workaround to make every
machine see each other; the reason for this topology is that the cable modem
is fixed in one location close to machine 1, where there is very poor
wireless connectivity, and I use the Dlink Router to receive the WAN from the
Cable modem, and distribute it with network cable to machine 1 and the
Linksys wireless router, which is 80ft away and in a position on the house
that let all the other machines get a very good signal. It's very hard to
change this arrangement, and the only long network cable that is not
obstrusive is the one between both routers.
Sorry for this long post, but I needed to explain the situation to get
better help.
Please let me know what do I need to change in Machine 1 or configure in
either/both routers to get this to work.
Thanks a lot in advance!

Is the DLink directly connected to the Linksys? The diagram makes it look like
Computer 1 is connected between the DLink and Linksys routers. If the Linksys
WAN link is directly connected to one of the LAN ports on the DLink, then your
solution is easy. Put all 5 computers on the same subnet - make the Linksys
into a WAP, not a router.
# Disable the DHCP server on the Linksys.
# Connect the cable from the DLink LAN to one of the LAN Ports on the Linksys.
# Change the Linksys LAN port to 192.168.0.2.
# Make sure the DHCP scope on the DLink doesn't include 192.168.0.2.
# Restart each computer. Each should come up on 192.168.0/24, now the same
subnet as Computer 1.

Thank you Chuck for your quick response!
Regarding your question, yes, the Dlink is connected to the linksys via a
network cable, from one of its LAN ports to the WAN port in the linksys. I
will try your recommendations when I get back home tonight. Please let me
know if I understood correctly:
1) Disable the DHCP server on the linksys
2) Connect the cable from the DLink LAN to one of the LAN ports on the
Linksys (instead of connecting it to the WAN port, as it is now?)
3) Change the Linksys LAN Port (the one connected to the Dlink, that used to
be plug into the WAN port?) to 192.168.0.2
4) Make sure the DHCP scope on the DLink doesn't include 192.168.0.2
5) Restart each computer. Each should come up on 192.168.(0..24?).(or
0..24?) (what is the part of the IP address that will vary from computer to
computer in this subnet, the last number, or the third?)

I hope you can clarify these little things for me. As you see, I don't know
much about TCP/IP networking

Thank you for your help Chuck!
"Chuck" wrote:

NP, glad to help. I'll elucidate a bit.

You currently have 2 LANs - the DLink one connected to the Internet, and the
Linksys connected to the DLink.

You can't see between Computer 1 and the others, because Computer 1 is on the
DLink LAN, and the others are on the Linksys LAN. NetBIOS name resolution, and
server advertisement, datagrams don't get routed thru the Linksys.

You need to put everything on one LAN. This means you have to turn the Linksys
into a WAP (basically a wireless hub).
1) You disable the DHCP server on the Linksys. The DLink, which provides
Internet access and routing, will be the DHCP server.
2) You disable NAT on the Linksys by connecting everything as peers, to its LAN
connections (wired or wireless).
3) The Linksys will still have an IP address, but the address will be on its
LAN side, cause you won't be connecting to its WAN. The IP address needs to be
on the 192.168.0/24 subnet, as is the DLink LAN (with the DLink LAN interface
192.168.0.1), so make the Linksys use 192.168.0.2.
4) Make sure that the DLink never assigns 192.168.0.2 as a DHCP address, so
make sure that 192.168.0.2 is outside the DHCP scope.
5) Restart each computer (2 - 5), to force each to get a new IP address, from a
different DHCP server (the DLink). Make sure the DLink DHCP server has enough
scope defined.

BTW, may I compliment you on the detailed completeness of your project
description. The one small detail that I found confusing was that I use Fixed
Pitch fonts (Lucida Console) in my display; you apparently used a variable pitch
font and compensated the "vertical" lines in your diagram to allow for that.
Stating in your diagram description that you used variable pitch fonts might
help a few like me, who use fixed pitch fonts. When I hit the Font Pitch
button, and changed into variable pitch view, your diagram became much more
clear.

 

[Guest]

Thank you for the follow up. Now is perfectly clear for me. I would prefer to
draw the diagram with fixed pitch fonts (I like Lucida console, I use it on
all fixed pitch texts) but this posting windows on the website let me write
the text in whatever font is setup by default in the browser for that matter,
and I think is tahoma or arial; is far easier to do this diagrams with fixed
pitch fonts!
Thank you again for sharing your knowledge and solving my problems
Best Regards,
L1

 

[Chuck]

Thank you for the follow up. Now is perfectly clear for me. I would prefer to
draw the diagram with fixed pitch fonts (I like Lucida console, I use it on
all fixed pitch texts) but this posting windows on the website let me write
the text in whatever font is setup by default in the browser for that matter,
and I think is tahoma or arial; is far easier to do this diagrams with fixed
pitch fonts!
Thank you again for sharing your knowledge and solving my problems
Best Regards,
L1

Don't sweat the font bit. I just threw that in to explain my earlier confusion.
;-)

Thanks for the feedback too.

 

[Phil]

I am writing this letter to ALL Wireless Router manufacturers.
I have a Linksys Wireless Router Model:BEFW11S4. It is 7 years (yes, count
them, all of seven little years) old. I have visited the Linksys website
numerous times trying to set up the WEP/WPA security on that wireless router
(as all responsible wireless router owners should!). I found that there are
no links to any wireless router setting websites that are congruent with the
screen shots from Linksys' own self help technical support site. I have had
to call Linksys several times to resolve this issue only to be placed on hold
for lengthy times (sometimes my call was dropped and I had to start over ....
how sad for such a large company to have such poorly trained phone
receptionists!), then be transferred (see previous comment about the phone
receptionists) to a supposed supervisor, only to finally be transferred to
someone who tells me that the warranty has expired and wants me to pay $40.00
for the technical support to do the right thing that I want and need to do.
First, the device works fine (as evidenced by this e-mail that you have
just received)!
Second, why should I have to pay for doing the right thing?
Third, if I am going to be EXTORTED into buying a new wireless router so
that I can do the right thing and set up an encryption key for a secure
network, what on Gods' Green Earth makes anyone think that I would CHOOSE to
buy another Linksys product when ALL that I have ever received from them is a
functional wireless router (yes, even after seven whole years) and the
crappiest Customer Service/Technical Support I have ever had the displeasure
to encounter!
I shall copy this letter and try to find as many Chat Rooms as possible in
order to spread the word of ALL that I have gone through with the Chain of
Command at the Linksys phone center, well above and beyond what any
reasonable person should expect to go through, and still have NO RELIEF
concerning my singular issue with their product and its capabilities that I
SHOULD be able to enjoy as the owner of said product! What has happend to
"The Customer Is Always Right" Customer Service mantra (I can't say "In
America" because the call was handled in India)? Is the Customer, the ones
that makes the company what it is through the purchase of products, so
worthless to the company that they can just be treated with abject contempt
and scorn? Is the Customer to thus be trampled underfoot? Are we paying to
be so abused? I, for one (yes, one, the beginning of all), shall NOT be
treated in such manner, and CERTAINLY shall NOT PAY to be treated as such!
In this world of expanding technologies, it shall be those with the
GREATEST Customer Appeal that shall continue to be found worthwile in the
publics' eyes (and pocketbooks) and shall grow to meet the demands of a
growing world - ESPECIALLY in the Electronics Department!
It is now my strongest desire that the Linksys Corporation suffers
irreparable damage and goes out of business for their Crappy Customer
Service! I can only hope that I reach enough people around the world to bring
this desire true!

 

[Phil]

I am writing this letter to ALL Wireless Router manufacturers.
I have a Linksys Wireless Router Model:BEFW11S4. It is 7 years (yes, count
them, all of seven little years) old. I have visited the Linksys website
numerous times trying to set up the WEP/WPA security on that wireless router
(as all responsible wireless router owners should!). I found that there are
no links to any wireless router setting websites that are congruent with the
screen shots from Linksys' own self help technical support site. I have had
to call Linksys several times to resolve this issue only to be placed on hold
for lengthy times (sometimes my call was dropped and I had to start over ....
how sad for such a large company to have such poorly trained phone
receptionists!), then be transferred (see previous comment about the phone
receptionists) to a supposed supervisor, only to finally be transferred to
someone who tells me that the warranty has expired and wants me to pay $40.00
for the technical support to do the right thing that I want and need to do.
First, the device works fine (as evidenced by this e-mail that you have
just received)!
Second, why should I have to pay for doing the right thing?
Third, if I am going to be EXTORTED into buying a new wireless router so
that I can do the right thing and set up an encryption key for a secure
network, what on Gods' Green Earth makes anyone think that I would CHOOSE to
buy another Linksys product when ALL that I have ever received from them is a
functional wireless router (yes, even after seven whole years) and the
crappiest Customer Service/Technical Support I have ever had the displeasure
to encounter!
I shall copy this letter and try to find as many Chat Rooms as possible in
order to spread the word of ALL that I have gone through with the Chain of
Command at the Linksys phone center, well above and beyond what any
reasonable person should expect to go through, and still have NO RELIEF
concerning my singular issue with their product and its capabilities that I
SHOULD be able to enjoy as the owner of said product! What has happend to
"The Customer Is Always Right" Customer Service mantra (I can't say "In
America" because the call was handled in India)? Is the Customer, the ones
that makes the company what it is through the purchase of products, so
worthless to the company that they can just be treated with abject contempt
and scorn? Is the Customer to thus be trampled underfoot? Are we paying to
be so abused? I, for one (yes, one, the beginning of all), shall NOT be
treated in such manner, and CERTAINLY shall NOT PAY to be treated as such!
In this world of expanding technologies, it shall be those with the
GREATEST Customer Appeal that shall continue to be found worthwile in the
publics' eyes (and pocketbooks) and shall grow to meet the demands of a
growing world - ESPECIALLY in the Electronics Department!
It is now my strongest desire that the Linksys Corporation suffers
irreparable damage and goes out of business for their Crappy Customer
Service! I can only hope that I reach enough people around the world to bring
this desire true!

I setup a small network at home mostly to share the Internet out of our cable
modem. I'm a novice in this Windows Home Networking stuff, so I don't
understand why machine 1 (see diagram below) can't share printers with the
others, or even join the same workgroup. In the following diagram I will try
to show you the best I can how is this network set up:

192.168.0.1
CABLEMODEM ----> [Router Dlink DI604] -----> MACHINE 1 (winxpHE)
|
|
V 192.168.1.1
[wireless Router Linksys WRT54G] --------> MACHINE 2
(winxpHE)
= = =
= = = (wireless
connection)
= = =
MACHINE 3 MACHINE 4 MACHINE 5
(winxpHE) (win98SE) (winxpPE)

In this diagram, that I hope is clear enough, the lines represent network
cables and the = lines represent wireless connections. The OSs for each
machine are between (). The IP for each router is shown above the router.
Machines 3,4,5 and 6 can share printers and join the same workgroup, say,
MYHOME. But Machine 1 refuses to do so, when I follow the wizard and tell it
the workgroup is MYHOME, after reboot, it doesn't see any other machines
belonging to that workgroup and all the others can't see machine 1. I imagine
that the fact that the routers having different IPs and the way they are
connected is the cause, but I hope there is a workaround to make every
machine see each other; the reason for this topology is that the cable modem
is fixed in one location close to machine 1, where there is very poor
wireless connectivity, and I use the Dlink Router to receive the WAN from the
Cable modem, and distribute it with network cable to machine 1 and the
Linksys wireless router, which is 80ft away and in a position on the house
that let all the other machines get a very good signal. It's very hard to
change this arrangement, and the only long network cable that is not
obstrusive is the one between both routers.
Sorry for this long post, but I needed to explain the situation to get
better help.
Please let me know what do I need to change in Machine 1 or configure in
either/both routers to get this to work.
Thanks a lot in advance!