.NET Framework update issue

[Jo-Anne]

Using WinXP. I've had nothing but trouble with the .NET Framework updates.
Three times now, they've caused my computer to lose its internet connection.
System Restore brings it back each time. In the past, when I dealt with
Support, Microsoft said to install that update separately from the others.
Today I installed the other eight updates, restarted the computer, and
installed this one. When I restarted again, no internet connection. As
before, System Restore brought back the connection.

My question: If I don't want to install further .NET Framework updates, can
I simply hide them? Or must I uninstall all the versions of .NET Framework
completely?

Thank you!

Jo-Anne

 

[Unk]

Using WinXP. I've had nothing but trouble with the .NET Framework updates.
Three times now, they've caused my computer to lose its internet connection.
System Restore brings it back each time. In the past, when I dealt with
Support, Microsoft said to install that update separately from the others.
Today I installed the other eight updates, restarted the computer, and
installed this one. When I restarted again, no internet connection. As
before, System Restore brought back the connection.

My question: If I don't want to install further .NET Framework updates, can
I simply hide them? Or must I uninstall all the versions of .NET Framework
completely?

Thank you!

Jo-Anne

Go to Windows Update, Click "Custom" and when .NET Framework updates show, uncheck them, then
click the +, and check the box, "Don't show Again", and refresh the page.

Unk

 

[Jo-Anne]

Go to Windows Update, Click "Custom" and when .NET Framework updates show,
uncheck them, then
click the +, and check the box, "Don't show Again", and refresh the page.

Unk

Thank you, Unk! So that shouldn't cause any security problem with the
already installed .NET Framework?

Jo-Anne

 

[Paul]

Using WinXP. I've had nothing but trouble with the .NET Framework updates.
Three times now, they've caused my computer to lose its internet connection.
System Restore brings it back each time. In the past, when I dealt with
Support, Microsoft said to install that update separately from the others.
Today I installed the other eight updates, restarted the computer, and
installed this one. When I restarted again, no internet connection. As
before, System Restore brought back the connection.

My question: If I don't want to install further .NET Framework updates, can
I simply hide them? Or must I uninstall all the versions of .NET Framework
completely?

Thank you!

Jo-Anne

The problem with "hiding from the updates", is the minor security implication.

Say, an update is offered because of a potential exploit. If you stop
updating your .NET, then it increases the slight risk, of something
happening.

*******

This blog, has a .NET setup verifier. As far as I know, Aaron is an
employee of Microsoft.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/astebner/archive/2008/10/13/8999004.aspx

This is the download I tried yesterday.

http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-file.ashx...9-90-04/netfx_5F00_setupverifier_5F00_new.zip

I ended up with "netfx_setupverifier_new.zip" 244,336 bytes.

You can unzip that, run the netfx_setupverifier.exe and a dialog
will pop up, asking you which install of .NET you want to verify.
There is also a README file in there, which tells you what the tool
is checking for.

This is a screenshot someone took, of the verifier when it is running.

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/349/outilvrification1.jpg

As far as I know, the verifier doesn't change anything. It is
supposed to determine if anything is wrong. You can keep the
log file, by clicking "View Log" and do whatever you want with
the contents.

As far as I know, Microsoft provides support for Windows Update,
so you could either approach it as a Windows Update issue, or a
dotnet issue, and perhaps Microsoft can be convinced to fix it
without a credit card.

Paul

 

[Unk]

Thank you, Unk! So that shouldn't cause any security problem with the
already installed .NET Framework?

Jo-Anne

Updates are for FIXING security problems.
You asked how to hide the updates.

They shouldn't have caused a loss of internet connection.
Have you tried right-clicking the internet connection icon in the task bar tray and selecting
"Repair" ???

Download the XP TCPIP Repair tool. (Free)
http://www.dissoft.com/XP-TCPIP-Repair-7171.html


Unk

 

[Jo-Anne]

The problem with "hiding from the updates", is the minor security
implication.

Say, an update is offered because of a potential exploit. If you stop
updating your .NET, then it increases the slight risk, of something
happening.

*******

This blog, has a .NET setup verifier. As far as I know, Aaron is an
employee of Microsoft.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/astebner/archive/2008/10/13/8999004.aspx

This is the download I tried yesterday.

http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-file.ashx...9-90-04/netfx_5F00_setupverifier_5F00_new.zip

I ended up with "netfx_setupverifier_new.zip" 244,336 bytes.

You can unzip that, run the netfx_setupverifier.exe and a dialog
will pop up, asking you which install of .NET you want to verify.
There is also a README file in there, which tells you what the tool
is checking for.

This is a screenshot someone took, of the verifier when it is running.

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/349/outilvrification1.jpg

As far as I know, the verifier doesn't change anything. It is
supposed to determine if anything is wrong. You can keep the
log file, by clicking "View Log" and do whatever you want with
the contents.

As far as I know, Microsoft provides support for Windows Update,
so you could either approach it as a Windows Update issue, or a
dotnet issue, and perhaps Microsoft can be convinced to fix it
without a credit card.

Paul

Thank you, Paul! I've copied your post to my hard drive for reference. I did
start another support request with Microsoft, and I should hear something
tomorrow. I gather from many things I've read that the .NET Framework
updates are the most problematic Microsoft offers--and I've heard that it's
best not to download .NET Framework if you don't need it--and it's needed by
developers, not general users. If that's indeed the case, why would I want
to have it on my computer at all?

Thank you again!

Jo-Anne

 

[Jo-Anne]

Updates are for FIXING security problems.
You asked how to hide the updates.

They shouldn't have caused a loss of internet connection.
Have you tried right-clicking the internet connection icon in the task bar
tray and selecting
"Repair" ???

Download the XP TCPIP Repair tool. (Free)
http://www.dissoft.com/XP-TCPIP-Repair-7171.html


Unk

I haven't tried that, Unk. Right now, I'm waiting to hear from Microsoft,
since I've started a support request. The last time this happened--and it
has happened on both of my WinXP computers--Microsoft said to install the
updates one at a time. This time I installed all but the .NET Framework
update, and the internet connection was fine. It was only when I installed
that one that the internet connection was lost. I know the update shouldn't
cause a loss of connection, but it does.

Jo-Anne

 

[Paul]

Thank you, Paul! I've copied your post to my hard drive for reference. I did
start another support request with Microsoft, and I should hear something
tomorrow. I gather from many things I've read that the .NET Framework
updates are the most problematic Microsoft offers--and I've heard that it's
best not to download .NET Framework if you don't need it--and it's needed by
developers, not general users. If that's indeed the case, why would I want
to have it on my computer at all?

Thank you again!

Jo-Anne

On my current computer, I only have .NET 2.0, because the video card control
panel needs it. You're right, that you can load the layers of the stack,
when a need arises, and not before.

Like many other kinds of software like that (Java, Flash, Silverlight, ActiveX),
they all need to be maintained once they're in place. Which means
no slouching, if a security issue is uncovered. In the case of Java, I
removed it, because the maintenance exceeds the utility of the software.
Flash is about as bad, but at least I use that occasionally. I
noticed the other day, I'd ignored maybe three or four Flash updates,
so I was being a bit of a slouch It seemed every week, I was
getting a nag about an update. (I use a manual update method, for
least problems.)

On my laptop, you can't really do anything, until the laptop has
finished "dining" on the Internet. Once the laptop has had a nice
"breakfast" of virus updates, Flash updates, or whatever, then
it's ready to work. When I booted it yesterday, about a minute
after starting, it wanted to reboot - that's the equivalent
of burping after a nice meal

Paul

 

[Mayayana]

| and I've heard that it's
| best not to download .NET Framework if you don't need it--and it's needed
by
| developers, not general users. If that's indeed the case, why would I want
| to have it on my computer at all?
|
I don't have .Net or Java on my system and won't
allow them. The former is somewhere around 500 MB.
The latter is about 200 MB. Both are wildly bloated
and carry slight security risks. Given that XP itself
is less than 1 GB, there's no excuse for having to use
a Virtual Machine that's half that size. (Microsoft doesn't
seem to be able to produce anything of reasonable size
these days. Vista/7 is close to 10 times the size of XP.)

In my case, I also like to use disk imaging for backup.
On a healthy, clean XP system I can fit the backup file
onto a single CD. If I start using .Net and Java software
then I'm doubling the size of the system for no good
reason. Neither .Net nor Java really has any business
being on the average PC. They were both designed to
provide a simple, object-oriented programming tool for
the fast production of corporate intranet software -- like
database frontends. Unfortunately, Microsoft has misled
people about .Net, and others have got carried away
with Java (like the OpenOffice people, for instance) so
it requires some effort to avoid getting stuck with the
two VM runtimes.

But it's not about whether you're a developer. It just
depends on whether you have any .Net software. There
isn't a lot of software written in .Net, but if you try to
install a program that is then it's likely to try to sneak
online and download the runtime without asking. (After
all, if you had asked a friend to store a small box for you
in their closet, you'd probably want to be diplomatic when
you tell them that, well, actually, you'll need their whole
living room. You have to watch out for that.

The way to tell that you've installed something that's
dependent on .Net is that when you try to run it, and
you don't have the .Net runtimes installed, you get a
message about "mscoree.dll" missing.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I gather from many things I've read that the .NET Framework
updates are the most problematic Microsoft offers--and I've heard that it's
best not to download .NET Framework if you don't need it--and it's needed by
developers, not general users. If that's indeed the case, why would I want
to have it on my computer at all?

Sorry, but that is *not* correct. You are mixing up .net and the .net
framework. The .net framework is program code that is used whenever a
program written with .net is run. So .net is needed by developers, not
users. But the .net framework is needed by anyone who wants to run a
program written with .net.

So if you don't run such a program, you don't need the framework. But
if you do want to run such a program, you need it. I don't know
whether you run any such programs at present, but even if you don't
run any today, there's a good chance you will tomorrow. There are many
such programs that are written with .net, so my view is that it's best
to have what you need installed so it's there whenever you need it.

Also bear in mind that there is no possible disadvantage to having
downloaded and installed it (except for the tiny amount of disk space
it uses) unless you run a program that uses it. I don't mean that
there is a disadvantage to running such a program, just that there can
not be any disadvantage unless it's run.


If the preceding paragraph isn't clear to you, let me illustrate what
I mean by a example: suppose someone writes a malicious program that
deletes many files that are important to you on your hard drive. If
you download and install that program, those files do *not* get
deleted--not unless you run the program.

 

[Jo-Anne]

Sorry, but that is *not* correct. You are mixing up .net and the .net
framework. The .net framework is program code that is used whenever a
program written with .net is run. So .net is needed by developers, not
users. But the .net framework is needed by anyone who wants to run a
program written with .net.

So if you don't run such a program, you don't need the framework. But
if you do want to run such a program, you need it. I don't know
whether you run any such programs at present, but even if you don't
run any today, there's a good chance you will tomorrow. There are many
such programs that are written with .net, so my view is that it's best
to have what you need installed so it's there whenever you need it.

Also bear in mind that there is no possible disadvantage to having
downloaded and installed it (except for the tiny amount of disk space
it uses) unless you run a program that uses it. I don't mean that
there is a disadvantage to running such a program, just that there can
not be any disadvantage unless it's run.


If the preceding paragraph isn't clear to you, let me illustrate what
I mean by a example: suppose someone writes a malicious program that
deletes many files that are important to you on your hard drive. If
you download and install that program, those files do *not* get
deleted--not unless you run the program.

Thank you for clarifying the difference between .Net and .Net Framework,
Ken! I now understand the value in having .Net Framework.

However, when you say there is no possible disadvantage to having it, I
disagree. Almost every time the last few months that I downloaded and
installed the updates for it, I lost my internet connection. This happened
on both of my WinXP computers, one running XP Home and the other running XP
Pro. Microsoft knows about the problem and last time recommended that I
install the updates one at a time. That seemed to work.

Yesterday, however, I installed all but the .Net Framework update--and the
internet connection was fine. As soon as I installed the .Net Framework
update and rebooted, I lost my internet connection. I had to do a System
Restore to get it back. This is getting frustrating.

Jo-Anne

 

[Jo-Anne]

| and I've heard that it's
| best not to download .NET Framework if you don't need it--and it's
needed
by
| developers, not general users. If that's indeed the case, why would I
want
| to have it on my computer at all?
|
I don't have .Net or Java on my system and won't
allow them. The former is somewhere around 500 MB.
The latter is about 200 MB. Both are wildly bloated
and carry slight security risks. Given that XP itself
is less than 1 GB, there's no excuse for having to use
a Virtual Machine that's half that size. (Microsoft doesn't
seem to be able to produce anything of reasonable size
these days. Vista/7 is close to 10 times the size of XP.)

In my case, I also like to use disk imaging for backup.
On a healthy, clean XP system I can fit the backup file
onto a single CD. If I start using .Net and Java software
then I'm doubling the size of the system for no good
reason. Neither .Net nor Java really has any business
being on the average PC. They were both designed to
provide a simple, object-oriented programming tool for
the fast production of corporate intranet software -- like
database frontends. Unfortunately, Microsoft has misled
people about .Net, and others have got carried away
with Java (like the OpenOffice people, for instance) so
it requires some effort to avoid getting stuck with the
two VM runtimes.

But it's not about whether you're a developer. It just
depends on whether you have any .Net software. There
isn't a lot of software written in .Net, but if you try to
install a program that is then it's likely to try to sneak
online and download the runtime without asking. (After
all, if you had asked a friend to store a small box for you
in their closet, you'd probably want to be diplomatic when
you tell them that, well, actually, you'll need their whole
living room. You have to watch out for that.

The way to tell that you've installed something that's
dependent on .Net is that when you try to run it, and
you don't have the .Net runtimes installed, you get a
message about "mscoree.dll" missing.

Thank you, Mayayana! I'll keep your post for reference. One question: Is it
worth uninstalling all of the .Net Framework program entries in Add/Remove
Programs? I gather from another post that once it's on your computer, you
should keep it updated, which is turning out to be difficult. If I do remove
..NET Framework, is the removal likely to cause any problems?

Thank you again!

Jo-Anne

 

[Jo-Anne]

On my current computer, I only have .NET 2.0, because the video card
control
panel needs it. You're right, that you can load the layers of the stack,
when a need arises, and not before.

Like many other kinds of software like that (Java, Flash, Silverlight,
ActiveX),
they all need to be maintained once they're in place. Which means
no slouching, if a security issue is uncovered. In the case of Java, I
removed it, because the maintenance exceeds the utility of the software.
Flash is about as bad, but at least I use that occasionally. I
noticed the other day, I'd ignored maybe three or four Flash updates,
so I was being a bit of a slouch It seemed every week, I was
getting a nag about an update. (I use a manual update method, for
least problems.)

On my laptop, you can't really do anything, until the laptop has
finished "dining" on the Internet. Once the laptop has had a nice
"breakfast" of virus updates, Flash updates, or whatever, then
it's ready to work. When I booted it yesterday, about a minute
after starting, it wanted to reboot - that's the equivalent
of burping after a nice meal

Paul

Thank you, Paul! I remember removing Java because of its constant attempts
to update itself--without succeeding. What I'm concerned about now is
whether using Add/Remove Programs will work to get rid of .NET Framework
completely and whether I'm likely to have any problems without it (other
than a particular program wanting me to have it).

Jo-Anne

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Thank you for clarifying the difference between .Net and .Net Framework,
Ken! I now understand the value in having .Net Framework.

You're welcome. Glad to help.

 

[Mayayana]

| Is it
| worth uninstalling all of the .Net Framework program entries in Add/Remove
| Programs? I gather from another post that once it's on your computer, you
| should keep it updated, which is turning out to be difficult. If I do
remove
| .NET Framework, is the removal likely to cause any problems?

I'm not an expert on that. If it were me I'd remove it,
but Microsoft is not good about *really* removing things.
(You can remove things like IE and Media Player, and
all Windows does is to hide the shortcuts!)

I don't know of any reason you would need to keep
..Net "up to date". If, say, you install software that uses
..Net v. 2 then you'll need v. 2. There would be no reason
to then install v. 3. It would just be a lot of useless
bloat. I don't see why Windows Update would be giving
you this stuff in the first place. None of .Net is or ever
was a default part of Windows XP.

If you mean only security updates then I don't know
about that, in terms of what vulnerabilities .Net has
had, how bad they are, and whether there are patches.
Personally I'm of the same school as Bill in CO: The idea of
letting any software update itself seems crazy to me. I
install major service packs after the bugs are worked out.
Aside from that I avoid Windows Update and all other
software updaters.

I don't know if any of this is really of much help.
It's up to you . You can try removing .Net. You might
end up having to install it again if you have software
that depends on it.

 

[Jo-Anne]

| Is it
| worth uninstalling all of the .Net Framework program entries in
Add/Remove
| Programs? I gather from another post that once it's on your computer,
you
| should keep it updated, which is turning out to be difficult. If I do
remove
| .NET Framework, is the removal likely to cause any problems?

I'm not an expert on that. If it were me I'd remove it,
but Microsoft is not good about *really* removing things.
(You can remove things like IE and Media Player, and
all Windows does is to hide the shortcuts!)

I don't know of any reason you would need to keep
.Net "up to date". If, say, you install software that uses
.Net v. 2 then you'll need v. 2. There would be no reason
to then install v. 3. It would just be a lot of useless
bloat. I don't see why Windows Update would be giving
you this stuff in the first place. None of .Net is or ever
was a default part of Windows XP.

If you mean only security updates then I don't know
about that, in terms of what vulnerabilities .Net has
had, how bad they are, and whether there are patches.
Personally I'm of the same school as Bill in CO: The idea of
letting any software update itself seems crazy to me. I
install major service packs after the bugs are worked out.
Aside from that I avoid Windows Update and all other
software updaters.

I don't know if any of this is really of much help.
It's up to you . You can try removing .Net. You might
end up having to install it again if you have software
that depends on it.

Thank you, Mayayana! I guess my main concern was whether I could screw
something up by uninstalling .NET Framework. If I ever hear from Microsoft,
I'll ask there.

Jo-Anne

 

[Jo-Anne]

The other choice you have, Jo-Anne, is to NOT keep downloading all the
updates. Works for me, and the world hasn't come to an end, yet.

Yes, but given that these are supposed to be security updates, I figure I
should take them, since I have a hard time dealing with malware. A friend of
mine who is a programmer never downloads the updates either--and eventually
he acquired malware and spent a day or two getting rid of it. I probably
couldn't do that myself, so I try to keep the security patches up to date,
hoping at least that they'll help me avoid most malware.

Jo-Anne

 

[Motor T]

Thank you, Paul! I remember removing Java because of its constant attempts
to update itself--without succeeding. What I'm concerned about now is
whether using Add/Remove Programs will work to get rid of .NET Framework
completely and whether I'm likely to have any problems without it (other
than a particular program wanting me to have it).

Jo-Anne

Use Revo to uninstall programs. Does a thorough job and it's free.
I'm guessing the only problems you would have is not being able to run
'Framework dependent' programs. Then you might reinstall Framework.
(And a reinstall may clear up your problem anyway). HTH

http://www.revouninstaller.com/revo_uninstaller_free_download.html

 

[Jo-Anne]

Use Revo to uninstall programs. Does a thorough job and it's free. I'm
guessing the only problems you would have is not being able to run
'Framework dependent' programs. Then you might reinstall Framework. (And a
reinstall may clear up your problem anyway). HTH

http://www.revouninstaller.com/revo_uninstaller_free_download.html

Thank you, Ed! I had completely forgotten about Revo Uninstaller, which I've
been meaning to download.

Jo-Anne

 

[Paul]

Thank you, Ed! I had completely forgotten about Revo Uninstaller, which I've
been meaning to download.

Jo-Anne

Jan got some instructions from Microsoft today, on cleanup of .NET.

<[email protected]> "Problem Solved to install KB2539631"

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=<[email protected]>

It looks like they remove dotNET 3.5 using a tool from Stebner's blog.
The tool is "dotnetfx_cleanup_tool.zip".

Paul