Need to worry about HDD? "The driver detected a controller erroron \Device\Harddisk1\D." in XP Pro.

[Rod Speed]

I had an HD doing that (errors in Event Log) on me in the past (IBM Travelstar).
No SMART problems either. Then in about a month it started clicking. SMART
and IBM HDD test both showed it fine. I backed it up. In another week it gave
up a ghost. There was no warning from SMART.

Bet there was some evidence of the problem in the SMART data tho.

It wont have been clicking without that producing evidence of a problem in the SMART data.

There was another HD (Toshiba) that SMART reported having
problems from the start. I don't remember what exact parameter
that was (probably Seek Error Rate in the range of millions).
That drive served me well for about 2 years until I replaced
it with higher capacity drive. Go figure.

Easy to figure, some drives report seek errors differently.

It is true that SMART came a long way since then. But I've learned not to trust it.

It can never predict all failures, that isnt even possible.

The only useful information it bears for me now is HD temperature

More fool you, you clearly dont understand the SMART data.

 

[DarthNeo]

Bet there was some evidence of the problem in the SMART data tho.

It wont have been clicking without that producing evidence of a
problem in the SMART data.

Maybe, I have not seen any SMART warnings when it started clicking. And
how come it was fine when I saw disk read/access errors in Event Log?
When I hear clicking I do not need SMART to know that disk is about to
die.

Easy to figure, some drives report seek errors differently.

Precisely. And that tells us what? That SMART was not "smart."
Temperature reporting seems to be standard across all vendors though.
Hence its usefulness.

What I was saying is that SMART may be of some use as an additional tool
but I would not rely on it.

 

[Barry Watzman]

SMART (as it exists in the disk drive) doesn't spontaneously report
ANYTHING. It only makes it's status information available IF AN INQUIRY
IS MADE by a SMART-aware diagnostic (or in some cases the BIOS on
bootup). SMART may know that the disk is dying, but unless a
SMART-aware diagnostic is explicitly run that asks for this information,
it goes nowhere. SOME BIOS' are SMART-aware and do query the disk drive
as part of POST (in some cases only as an option whose default may be
not to query the drive). Other BIOS' are "SMART-unaware" (SMART-dumb?)

 

[DarthNeo]

SMART (as it exists in the disk drive) doesn't spontaneously report
ANYTHING. It only makes it's status information available IF AN
INQUIRY IS MADE by a SMART-aware diagnostic (or in some cases the BIOS
on bootup). SMART may know that the disk is dying, but unless a
SMART-aware diagnostic is explicitly run that asks for this
information, it goes nowhere. SOME BIOS' are SMART-aware and do query
the disk drive as part of POST (in some cases only as an option whose
default may be not to query the drive). Other BIOS' are
"SMART-unaware" (SMART-dumb?)

I know that. I know the theory. We are talking about practical use. My
point is all SMART parameters were within norm when drive started clicking.
And one of the parameters was abnormal in the perfectly fine drive in
another case. That's all. Just my experience. Make your own conclusions.

 

[Rod Speed]

Maybe,

No maybe about it unless you are grossly misusing the word clicking.

I have not seen any SMART warnings when it started clicking.

You dont appear to be able to read and comprehend the SMART DATA.

And how come it was fine when I saw disk read/access errors in Event Log?

Because some drive problems dont produce any error message in the event log.

When I hear clicking I do not need SMART to know that disk is about to die.

But you do need to use the SMART data to distinguish between clicking
thats due to the drive dying from clicking thats caused by a fault outside
the physical drive, like power not getting to the drive reliably.

If the drive is clicking because its recalibrating because it isnt able
to read the platters properly, that should show up in the SMART data.

Nope.

And that tells us what?

That that is normal for that particular manufacturer's drives.

That SMART was not "smart."

Nope, that you arent smart enough to be able to read and comprehend
the SMART data. Some of the SMART data is purely informational, it
isnt JUST about evidence of imminent drive failure.

Temperature reporting seems to be standard across all vendors though.

No it isnt.

Hence its usefulness.

What I was saying is that SMART may be of some
use as an additional tool but I would not rely on it.

It was never claimed to be able to predict all drive failures. That isnt even possible.

 

[Rod Speed]

I know that. I know the theory. We are talking about practical use.
My point is all SMART parameters were within norm when drive started clicking.

Thats the proof that you dont understand what SMART data is about.

And one of the parameters was abnormal in the perfectly fine drive in another case.

And that in spades.

That's all. Just my experience. Make your own conclusions.

That you dont understand what SMART is about.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

DarthNeo wrote in news:[email protected]

I know that. I know the theory. We are talking about practical use.

My point is all SMART parameters were within norm when drive started
clicking.

Uncorrectable read error 'bad' sectors are allowed so that's no reason
for a bad S.M.A.R.T. status.

And one of the parameters was abnormal in the perfectly fine drive in
another case.

Abnormal to you but not to S.M.A.R.T.

That's all. Just my experience.

Make your own conclusions.

And so he did.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Rod Speed wrote in news:[email protected]

No maybe about it unless you are grossly misusing the word clicking.


You dont appear to be able to read and comprehend the SMART DATA.

Because some drive problems dont produce any error message in the event log.

Ooh, that made such a lot of sense.

But you do need to use the SMART data to distinguish between clicking
thats due to the drive dying from clicking thats caused by a fault outside
the physical drive, like power not getting to the drive reliably.

If the drive is clicking because its recalibrating because it isnt able
to read the platters properly, that should show up in the SMART data.

That too.

That that is normal for that particular manufacturer's drives.

Nope, that you arent smart enough to be able to read and comprehend
the SMART data.

Well, then at least there's something the two of you have in common.

 

[DarthNeo]

Thats the proof that you dont understand what SMART data is about.


And that in spades.


That you dont understand what SMART is about.

I let my guard off and decided to reply in USENET group. What a mistake.
This thread is a good example of how people start twisting the subject
and lead it astray.

The OP was told in first response to disregard error messages in Error
Log because SMART was reporting everything fine.

My response was that in the similar situation my HD was soon dead. Just
a "beware" post.

Go back to the beginning of the thread and read what it was about. Maybe
then you'll have at least some understanding yourself.

 

[Rod Speed]

I let my guard off and decided to reply in USENET group. What a mistake.

Yeah, quite a foot shot when you clearly dont have a clue about what SMART is about.

This thread is a good example of how people start twisting the subject and lead it astray.

Yours is a perfect example of someone who couldnt bullshit and lie their way out of a wet
paper bag when your nose is rubbed in the terminal stupidity of your comments about SMART.

The OP was told in first response to disregard error messages
in Error Log because SMART was reporting everything fine.

No he wasnt told anything of the sort.

My response was that in the similar situation my HD was soon dead.
Just a "beware" post.

And you flaunted your complete pig ignorance of what SMART is actually about.

Go back to the beginning of the thread and read what it was about.

I know what it was about, I replied to the OP myself.

I ALSO chose to comment on your complete pig ignorance that is completely useless to the OP too.

Maybe then you'll have at least some understanding yourself.

I understand fine thanks. And I also understand that you couldnt bullshit your way
out of a wet paper bag even if your pathetic excuse for a 'life' depended on it.

So has everyone else who has chosen to comment on your stupid claims too.

 

[Arno Wagner]

I let my guard off and decided to reply in USENET group. What a mistake.
This thread is a good example of how people start twisting the subject
and lead it astray.

The OP was told in first response to disregard error messages in Error
Log because SMART was reporting everything fine.

My response was that in the similar situation my HD was soon dead. Just
a "beware" post.

Go back to the beginning of the thread and read what it was about. Maybe
then you'll have at least some understanding yourself.

There are allways abrasive people on USENET, that know better.
Some are polite, some are less so. No reason not to post.

As to SMART: A significant part of failed disks fail without
SMART warning or even any indication in the SMART attributes.
Manufacturers admit that. Studies have shown this to happen.
I do not have current numbers. However the larger part
fails with giving indications in the SMART data before.
Personally I had only disks failures with indications
in the SMART data, but not necessarily SMART failures.

Of course SMART has to be on. And either SMART offline
data collection has to be on (off in many drives by default)
or you have to run long SMART selftests periodically (I do
automatic ones every 14 days.). Failing that the risk
of no warning from SMART increases significanly.

Arno