Need power supply recommendation

[Lee M.]

Recently installed an Epox 8RDA3+ mobo with AMD 2700+ (T-bred) that replaced
an 8KHA+ with 1800+ (yeah, I know, I'm several generations behind but this
is all I need). Using a Rosewill RV400S power supply (dual 12v rails
totaling 29 amps). Never had a problem with the old setup but now am
experiencing regular boot failures. Sometimes I won't even get the entire
BIOS screen to display though most of the time it gets to the point where
the hard drives are detected and then just hangs. Might start ok on the
first ctrl-alt-del or it might take 2 or 3 retries. Generally if it gets
past the point where the drives are detected (1 hard drive, 2 opticals) then
it proceeds ok. Once running, there are no problems.

It has been suggested that this might be a power supply problem so I'm
going to get a new one. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Will
probably purchase from Newegg.

Thanks.

 

[Gary]

Recently installed an Epoxy 8RDA3+ mobo with AMD 2700+ (T-bred) that
replaced
an 8KHA+ with 1800+ (yeah, I know, I'm several generations behind but this

is all I need). Using a Rose will RV400S power supply (dual 12v rails
totaling 29 amps). Never had a problem with the old setup but now am
experiencing regular boot failures. Sometimes I won't even get the entire

BIOS screen to display though most of the time it gets to the point where
the hard drives are detected and then just hangs. Might start ok on the
first ctrl-alt-del or it might take 2 or 3 retries. Generally if it gets

past the point where the drives are detected (1 hard drive, 2 opticals)
then
it proceeds ok. Once running, there are no problems.

It has been suggested that this might be a power supply problem so I'm
going to get a new one. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Will
probably purchase from Newegg.

Thanks.

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/home/ I never had one go bad and been using
them since 1998. I tried Antec because they were cheaper and already
replaced the three that I purchased. You get what you pay I guess.

 

[taragem]

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/home/I never had one go bad and been using
them since 1998. I tried Antec because they were cheaper and already
replaced the three that I purchased. You get what you pay I guess.

Good link, thanks. I guess specializing in PSUs will produce good
products and they sound like they know what they're talking about.
What they said makes sense. I also liked the product selector that
allows you to find the right PS for your rig. When I was calling
around for a new PS I was getting sales talk about how many rails they
had and didn't know what to believe. Come to find out, at least
according to them, one rail is best. I also liked that their PSUs have
a flat black finish - black is the best color for radiating heat.

 

[Gary]

Good link, thanks. I guess specializing in PSUs will produce good
products and they sound like they know what they're talking about.
What they said makes sense. I also liked the product selector that
allows you to find the right PS for your rig. When I was calling
around for a new PS I was getting sales talk about how many rails they
had and didn't know what to believe. Come to find out, at least
according to them, one rail is best. I also liked that their PSUs have
a flat black finish - black is the best color for radiating heat.

Your Welcome. I think the PSU is the heart of your system feeding the
components the proper voltage.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

Recently installed an Epox 8RDA3+ mobo with AMD 2700+ (T-bred) that replaced
an 8KHA+ with 1800+ (yeah, I know, I'm several generations behind but this
is all I need). Using a Rosewill RV400S power supply (dual 12v rails
totaling 29 amps). Never had a problem with the old setup but now am
experiencing regular boot failures. Sometimes I won't even get the entire
BIOS screen to display though most of the time it gets to the point where
the hard drives are detected and then just hangs. Might start ok on the
first ctrl-alt-del or it might take 2 or 3 retries. Generally if it gets
past the point where the drives are detected (1 hard drive, 2 opticals) then
it proceeds ok. Once running, there are no problems.

It has been suggested that this might be a power supply problem so I'm
going to get a new one.

Try unplugging and replugging all the power cables and the memory
modules. Also see that the plug-in cards are firmly seated,
especially any AGP card.

The only reliable way to check the PSU is by using a digital
multimeter, and even the $3-15 ones from Harbor Freight, Wal-mart,
Sears, etc., are fine, but try to get one that reads at least 3 1/2
digits. Here's a guide to using meters:

www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=403837

If the voltages don't droop too much (more than about 2-3%, even
though the specs say 5% is acceptable), then the PSU is probably OK

Is the Epox mobo new? Because if it's old it may have developed bad
capacitors, and some capacitor brands go bad a lot, lot sooner than
others. www.badcaps.net has lots of information about the subject.

Bad or incompatible memory can cause erratic operation, and I've found
that even major brands have this problem. Some mobo chipsets seem to
be more particular than others, especially those from nVidia (GeForce,
nForce). Before you change the hardware, try slower timings in the
BIOS setup, especially any 1T/2T command timing setting and memory bus
speed.

Rosewills PSUs aren't the favorites of experts (like www.jonnyguru.com),
but still a 400W one should have no problems running your system. But
if you find that your PSU is bad when tested with a digital meter (not
a PSU tester or diagnostic), consider getting something made by
Fortron-Source, Enhance, Seasonic, Enermax, or a brand included among
the better ones in Jonny Guru's list. Antec is OK, provided it's not
a Neo (NeoHE OK), SmartPower, or TruePower because those are made by
Channel Well, which uses really bad Fuhjyyu capacitors. The other
Antecs are by Seasonic (Trio, EarthWatts, NeoHE) or Fortron-Source
(Basiq) and are reliable. Some Thermaltakes are also made by Fortron-
Source.

PC Power & Cooling is really good but sometimes so expensive that you
can buy two other excellent PSUs for the same price.

 

[w_tom]

It has been suggested that this might be a power supply problem so I'm
going to get a new one. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Will
probably purchase from Newegg.

It might also be a phase of the moon. Therefore wait a week. Or in
two mnutes, know whether something in the power supply 'system' is
defective. Procedure using the 3.5 digit multimeter was posted
previously in "When your computer dies without warning....." starting
6 Feb 2007 in the newsgroup alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh

Don't have a meter? That $20 or less tool is as important as a
screwdriver and so simple as to even be sold to K-mart shoppers. Or
Wal-mart, Lowes, Radio Shack, Tru-Value hardware ...

It takes longer to remove a power supply than to know if a power
supply and other components (the entire power supply system) are
good. Even swapping power supplies will not provide a definitive
answer since a defective or undersized supply can still power a
computer. But numbers from that meter will provide a conclusive
answer in two minutes OR make possible useful responses from the
better informed. Without numbers, you will only be speculating.

If all components in the power supply system are confirmed good (in
but two minutes), then move on to other suspects and don't even look
back. No wasting time buying a supply that was not needed.

 

[Lee M.]

It might also be a phase of the moon. Therefore wait a week. Or in
two mnutes, know whether something in the power supply 'system' is
defective. Procedure using the 3.5 digit multimeter was posted
previously in "When your computer dies without warning....." starting
6 Feb 2007 in the newsgroup alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh

Don't have a meter? That $20 or less tool is as important as a
screwdriver and so simple as to even be sold to K-mart shoppers. Or
Wal-mart, Lowes, Radio Shack, Tru-Value hardware ...

It takes longer to remove a power supply than to know if a power
supply and other components (the entire power supply system) are
good. Even swapping power supplies will not provide a definitive
answer since a defective or undersized supply can still power a
computer. But numbers from that meter will provide a conclusive
answer in two minutes OR make possible useful responses from the
better informed. Without numbers, you will only be speculating.

If all components in the power supply system are confirmed good (in
but two minutes), then move on to other suspects and don't even look
back. No wasting time buying a supply that was not needed.

I have a multi-meter. Should I just take voltage readings from the
unconnected connectors or probe into the 20 pin connector for each rail?
Thanks for the help.

 

[Lee M.]

Try unplugging and replugging all the power cables and the memory
modules. Also see that the plug-in cards are firmly seated,
especially any AGP card.

The only reliable way to check the PSU is by using a digital
multimeter, and even the $3-15 ones from Harbor Freight, Wal-mart,
Sears, etc., are fine, but try to get one that reads at least 3 1/2
digits. Here's a guide to using meters:

www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=403837

If the voltages don't droop too much (more than about 2-3%, even
though the specs say 5% is acceptable), then the PSU is probably OK

Is the Epox mobo new? Because if it's old it may have developed bad
capacitors, and some capacitor brands go bad a lot, lot sooner than
others. www.badcaps.net has lots of information about the subject.

Bad or incompatible memory can cause erratic operation, and I've found
that even major brands have this problem. Some mobo chipsets seem to
be more particular than others, especially those from nVidia (GeForce,
nForce). Before you change the hardware, try slower timings in the
BIOS setup, especially any 1T/2T command timing setting and memory bus
speed.

Rosewills PSUs aren't the favorites of experts (like www.jonnyguru.com),
but still a 400W one should have no problems running your system. But
if you find that your PSU is bad when tested with a digital meter (not
a PSU tester or diagnostic), consider getting something made by
Fortron-Source, Enhance, Seasonic, Enermax, or a brand included among
the better ones in Jonny Guru's list. Antec is OK, provided it's not
a Neo (NeoHE OK), SmartPower, or TruePower because those are made by
Channel Well, which uses really bad Fuhjyyu capacitors. The other
Antecs are by Seasonic (Trio, EarthWatts, NeoHE) or Fortron-Source
(Basiq) and are reliable. Some Thermaltakes are also made by Fortron-
Source.

PC Power & Cooling is really good but sometimes so expensive that you
can buy two other excellent PSUs for the same price.

The mobo is not new but the caps are all good. I have an 8RDA+ with bad
caps (although it still runs fine) so I know what they look like. I'll
check the voltages and see what's up. Thanks.

 

[w_tom]

I have a multi-meter. Should I just take voltage readings from the
unconnected connectors or probe into the 20 pin connector for
each rail?

You can use the red and yellow wires on unconnected connectors.
However all voltages are on the 20 pin connector. And the purple,
green, etc wires are only on that 20 pin connector. Those wires
simply communicate between power supply and rest of the power supply
system. Easiest is to probe by pusing into back of 20 pin nylon
connector.

Meter black wire can even be clipped onto chassis (or use any black
wire on unconnected plugs.

 

[Matt]

I have a multi-meter. Should I just take voltage readings from the
unconnected connectors or probe into the 20 pin connector for each rail?
Thanks for the help.

I think it will be important to take your readings during power-up,
because that is when the power supply is under greatest load (due mainly
to hard drive start-up).

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

The mobo is not new but the caps are all good.

What scope or ESR meter did you use to check them? Caps don't always
bulge or leak when they go bad.

 

[Lee M.]

What scope or ESR meter did you use to check them? Caps don't always
bulge or leak when they go bad.

No way to check them electronically. On my 8RDA+, the bulging caps manifest
themselves by constantly varying CPU voltage (1.4-1.6). Since all the
voltages on the 8RDA3+ are rock solid, I have assumed (perhaps incorrectly)
that the caps are good. I believe this mobo was made after the period when
the bad cap thing was going on but I have no way to tell for sure.

 

[w_tom]

I think it will be important to take your readings during power-up,
because that is when thepower supplyis under greatest load (due
mainly to hard drive start-up).

Review a two minute procedure in "When your computer dies without
warning....." starting
6 Feb 2007 in the newsgroup alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh

Even signal wires are between various power "system" components.
Numbers are collected both before and when power supply is powered.
Finally, a stress test means accessing (multitasking) all peripherals
simultaneously when voltages are taken on orange, red, yellow and
purple wires. Complex video processing (playing a movie) while
accessing internet while reading from hard drive and reading from
floppy and ...

Some 100% defective power supplies are only identified by numbers
when the fully multitasking system is executing a 'largest' load. A
computer generally consumes less power during startup since many
component do nothing until the computer is ready to 'find' them. But
a power supply defect that causes failures even months later means
taking numbers using a meter during that 'full load'. BTW, no 'full
load' is why power supply testers cannot report these defects.

Without a power supply tester that costs many hundreds, then nothing
else will so reliability identify a defective power supply - including
some failing capacitors.