Need help with an email mystery

[Rick Altman]

The following problem has completely befuddled the experts at both Comcast
(my outgoing mail server), and at ValueWeb (my incoming one). I have
developed an intermittent but persistent ability to send email to myself
(which is very handy for testing new mailboxes and forwards). Both providers
disavow any responsibility and point fingers at everyone else, and it turns
out that they might be right. Through many hours of testing, I have
discovered the following:

- I can send mail successfully from Outlook Express
- That same test fails in Outlook 02 or 03

Somehow, this is Outlook's fault, and I can't even begin to figure out how
that could be. I have made no changes to any of my login information:

Name: Rick Altman
Email: rickDOTaATaltmanDOTcom (anti-spammed here)
Incoming: pop.altman.com
Outgoing: smtp:comcast.net

That information, when duplicated in OE, results in a successful delivery.
That same information in Outlook, produces a bounce with the following
information (email address changed below):


--------------
Reporting-MTA: dns; comcast.net
Arrival-Date: 5 Dec 2003 18:18:34 +0000

Final-Recipient: rfc822; <rick.a@[mydomain].com>
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.0 MAIL FROM: <rick.a@[mydomain.com]> 550 REPLY:
550_5.7.2_Refused_at_request_of_postmaster
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; Permanent Failure: Other address status
Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 18:18:38 -0000

--------------

Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this...?



Rick Altman
Pleasanton, CA

 

[Jeff Stephenson [MSFT]]

Tells you something about the actual operational/technical knowledge of
those support folks that they don't know why their own servers are rejecting
your message... In all likelihood, what you need to do to get mail flowing
is to set up your Comcast account to authenticate to its outgoing server -
on your Comcast account page, click "More Settings...", then go to the
"Outgoing Server" tab. If mail does get sent from Outlook sometimes, you
probably want to check the "log into incoming server before sending"
option - the times that mail was sent was probably after you'd logged into
the server to receive mail. Otherwise, just try the "same as incoming"
option.

 

[Rick Altman]

Jeff, that was a beautiful peformance -- you were absolutely right. The key
to the puzzle was the last suggestion you made:

If mail does get sent from Outlook sometimes, you probably want to
check the "log into incoming server before sending" option - the times
that mail was sent was probably after you'd logged into the server
to receive mail.


Why would that have any influence on anything? Why would Outlook choke on
sending mail out just because it just checked incoming mail? You were
absolutely right, but I can't make sense of why it matters.

Thanks a million...



Rick A.

 

[Jeff Stephenson [MSFT]]

It matters because most ISPs will not send mail to anybody outside their
servers (known as "relaying") unless you've authenticated (proven that
you're one of their customers). Comcast appears to have implemented this
authentication by having you log into their incoming mail server first -
there are much better ways in existance, but many ISPs seem to have chosen
to go that route. We have the spammers to thank for these restrictions -
basically, ISPs are trying to prevent spammers from using their servers to
send massive amounts of email.

 

[Rick Altman]

Makes sense -- thanks again...

 

[Rick Altman]

One final follow-up question, Jeff:

How come I only seemed to have experienced this problem when sending mail to
myself? If I use Comcast's outbound server for all of my mail, without
logging into their incoming servers first, how come this failure only occurs
with mail destined for that one particular mailbox...MINE!?



Rick A.

 

[Jeff Stephenson [MSFT]]

If the recipients of the other messages were Comcast customers, Comcast's
servers would accept the messages - only messages being sent through their
servers to *other* ISPs would be blocked.

 

[Rick Altman]

Hmm, it seems as if there has to be another element at play in all of this.
After all, I send out about a hundred emails a day, and only a small
minority of them are to Comcast customers. If they were all being blocked, I
would surely know it!

The remaining mystery is why only email to MYSELF seems to be getting
blocked...

 

[Jeff Stephenson [MSFT]]

I can't explain that. You might see if Comcast can tell you why they're
only blocking messages to yourself.