Need help to complete Skybuck's 2005 (dream) PC design ;)

[Skybuck Flying]

Hi,

My mother and other family members are starting to become PC savy and
they are starting to hate me for playing on "their" PC lol. Today I wanted
to go over there and play Dungeon Siege 2 but nope. Not allowed to play
there. So I was stuck to my old PIII 450 mhz with GeForce FX 5200 and bad
crackling sound etc because of buggy/damaged asus p3v4x/via chipset, not at
all an enjoyable experience compared to the fast good sounding PC

So instead of playing Dungeon Siege 2 I again looked at my 2005 (dream) pc
design for me.

It hasn't changed much (Only crt monitor selected quickly) . Though today I
decided to calculate how much it would cost. To my surprise not that much.
It falls well within my 5000 euro budget

What I need help with is determining which motherboard is best suited for
the list/design. Also what case to get. Also are there any other components
missing ? like screws or mounting devices or controllers etc or things like
usb, ps/2 ports or maybe that s integrated into the case and what about
power supply ?

Here is the list, all prices are in euro's.

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Toledo 4800+, Socket 939, Boxed
Price: 919

Videocard1: nVidia GeForce 7800 GTX (Gigabyte GV-NX78X256V-B 256 MB, PCI
Express x16 )
Price: 540

(Second videocard 2 optional/expansion: )

Videocard2: nVidia GeForce 7800 GTX (Gigabyte GV-NX78X256V-B 256 MB, PCI
Express x16 )
Price: 540

Motherboard: no idea (asus seems to be bad quality, many problems, maybe
giga-byte is much better <-seems to have less problems in newsgroups at
least )
Price: about 150

Memory module1: Samsung Original DDR SDRAM, 1 GB, PC3200, 400 MHz, -
Price: 112

Memory module2: Samsung Original DDR SDRAM, 1 GB, PC3200, 400 MHz, -
Price: 112

Memory module3: Samsung Original DDR SDRAM, 1 GB, PC3200, 400 MHz, -
Price: 112

Memory module4: Samsung Original DDR SDRAM, 1 GB, PC3200, 400 MHz, -
Price: 112

Harddisk1: Hitachi Desktstar 7K500 500 GB, 7.200 rpm, 16 MB, SATA II
(HDS725050KLA360 )
Price: 382

(Second, third, fourth hardisk optional/expansion: )

Harddisk2: Hitachi Desktstar 7K500 500 GB, 7.200 rpm, 16 MB, SATA II
(HDS725050KLA360 )
Price: 382

Harddisk3: Hitachi Desktstar 7K500 500 GB, 7.200 rpm, 16 MB, SATA II
(HDS725050KLA360 )
Price: 382

Harddisk4: Hitachi Desktstar 7K500 500 GB, 7.200 rpm, 16 MB, SATA II
(HDS725050KLA360 )
Price: 382

Soundblaster: Creative SoundBlaster Audigy 4 Pro Retail
Price: 235

Speakerset: Creative GigaWorks S750
Price: 380

CD Rewriter: Plextor PX-230A 52 x, 32 x, 52 x, White, Retail (PX-230A/T3)
Price: 36

DVD Rewriter: Plextor PX-716SA 16 x, 6 x, 16 x, White, Retail (PX-716SA)
Price: 116

Monitor: Iiyama HM903DTB 19 inch, Ivory (HM903DTB)
Price: 377

(This keyboard might be a bit junky, though I have enough keyboards at home,
dirty though... still 10 bucks for a new keyboard not bad nice to have an
extra new one )

Keyboard: Logitech Internet Pro Keyboard White, OEM
Price: 10

( I like these logitech pilot mouses a lot, nice and simple, I am probably
going to buy a couple of time in case they aren't produced anymore, I broke
a couple of them but that the hell, don't break em in the first place lol)

Mouse: Logitech Pilot Wheel Mouse Grey, OEM
Price: 6

(Networkcard for hopefully unloading the CPU a little, so more CPU power for
other tasks
also nice to have 10/100/1000 gigabit card etc )

Networkcard1: Linksys EG1032
Price: 28

( Second network card optional, depending on the integrated motherboard's
network stuff. I might buy some extra high speed network cards for this and
other older pc's. Though I am not sure if this network card is a PCI or PCI
express card ? )

Networkcard2: Linksys EG1032
Price: 28

Basic price:

Processor: 919
Videocard1: 540
Motherboard: 150
Memory module1: 112
Memory module2: 112
Memory module3: 112
Memory module4: 112
Harddisk1: 382
Soundblaster: 235
Speakerset: 380
CD Rewriter: 36
DVD Rewriter: 116
Monitor: 377
Keyboard: 10
Mouse: 6
Networkcard: 28

Basic Price: 3627

Harddisk1: 382
Harddisk2: 382
Harddisk3: 382
Videocard2: 540
Networkcard2: 28

Extra Price: 1714 (<- pretty expensive, could wait till prices drop )

The most important part is that every component is high quality (= long life
time). The second most important part is speed/performance/visual
quality/sound quality etc.

The motherboard/bios is a single point of failure, since they are pretty
cheap compared to the rest of the system I could simply buy two or three
motherboards in case the first one fails. I do not want downtime or having
to buy all new components if the motherboard dies in a couple of years and
future/new motherboards cant handle these by then older components This
PC must last for at least 5 to 10 years ( 5 to 6 years of heavy use and 4
to 5 years gathering dust and an occasional use )

The cpu is also a point of failure as well as the power supply. However
hopefully power supplies will be compatible in the future. In case the
motherboard has an outdated bios and needs to be flashed to support a new
bios it might be necessary to buy a really cheap cpu... Still wasting 150
euro's or so just for a bios upgrade is a bit much I do plan on phoning
up the supplier to ask about the bios version but maybe it's best to go with
a cheap cpu to be able to flash the bios just in case... thereby preventing
the dead in the water risk

So what is still missing from this picture/list:

Case ?
Controller(s) ?
Power cables and such ?
Screws, other mounting devices ?
Network cables ?
Network switch ?
Usb stuff ?
PS/2 Ports ?
Serial Ports ?
Power supply ?
Extra fans ?

I also have some old IDE drives so a motherboard with IDE support would be
nice to connect
the old ones in case necessary.

I have read some manuals in the past and have some question about that too
which are below, though first I would like answers to the questions above
which would already make me quit happy =D

Additional far sought and hard questions:

1. What exactly is a boxed cpu ?

I think it's a cpu with thermal interface material applied and a heatsink
and fan on it ?

( Are there drawback to such a construction ? for example thermal stuff
drying up or something ?
Maybe not even well applied ? (anybody ever seen a **** up from a factory
? )

2. Some motherboard have onboard gigabit ethernet lan/stuff, will these
works with a cable modem ?
(Motoral cable modem SB4200E)

Since I am planning on seperate network cards and these network cards
support 10/100/1000 I think this is not an issue but still, this explains
why I want seperate network card just in case and also still not sure if
these seperate network cards will work with it

3. I saw a recent motherboard it had this extra 4x pci slot it was black and
really small, what exactly is this ?

The manual said it could be used for an extra graphics card but it seems so
small ?

4. Is it possible to connect a firewire connector into an usb slot or vice
versa ? the manual says that might damage the motherboard etc.

5. Power requirements of my design above

High much voltage do all components require, cpu, videocard, harddisks,
optical drives, etc, etc ?
High much ampere do all components require, cpu, videocard, harddisks,
optical drives, etc, etc ?

How to calculate these power requirements ?

The power supply should be able to deliver this ammount of voltage and
ampere.

A motherboard manual mentioned 500 watt and 25A at least

6. Some motherboard manual said: Internal audio connectors are disabled
during 8 audio channel mode. ?

Suppose the internal audio connectors go to the CD drive, does this mean the
CD drive can't play a music CD while the harddisk is used to play a game ?

(I think one of my previous pc's could do that sometime in the past... maybe
it was
on the gigabyte motherboard... oh well I dont have any cd's anyway...
except
for a half damaged mp3 cd )

7. A manual said:

Note firewire is +12v compared to +5 for usb. Never connect usb to firewire
that could destroy the motherboard. why actually ?

8. A manual said:

Make sure the power button is off.

How does one make sure all power buttons are off ?? before connecting the
power cable ?

In the past power buttons where these flip switches, now it's just push
button which goes back out etc so it's impossible to tell if it's on or off
when looking at the power button only

9. Power button should turn off the pc no matter what !

10. Is it required to install an IDE harddisk ? or is it possible to have
SATA drives only ?

A manual said: "no ide harddisk detected" in the post report.

Maybe the word "ide" should have been left out of this description

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Sharanga Dayananda]

Get a Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty edtion sound card, when it comes out in
September.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Get a Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty edtion sound card, when it comes out in
September.

Yes, If I am going to buy such a card it will be this one:

http://www.tomshardware.com/consumer/20050818/creative_x-fi-03.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/consumer/20050818/creative_x-fi-04.html

Since it has this nice rack just like the creative audigy 4 with a headphone
output

I am probably going to set the pc on the ground so a build in front end
panel is unhandy for me, the rack is much more handy and nice since it can
be placed on the desk providing easy access to all the nice rotary controls
=D

I already read about the X-Fi but forgot about it... it also looked
expensive at the time like 500 bucks, now maybe like 380 bucks for the
elite/pro version still a lot but what the **** lol. I rather have quality
than something shitty =D

Thanks for reminding me though. Just one or two more months before I can get
one hopefully. I can wait that long an use onboard audio or so That
excludes asus deluxe sli boards lol <- bad audio not working and bad fans
etc bleh

Bye,
Skybuck

 

[Sparex]

OK.. Whoa.. Thats quite a system....
lets take a smaller summary look shall we?
AMD64x2 4800+
MB - Undetermined, needs SLI... (Abit Fatal1ty-Sli looks good to me)
4Gb Ram DDR400
2Tbs (500Gbx4) SATA Hds..
CD-RW (Ide)
DVD+/-RW (DL) (SATA)

Well for starters you got a problem in your setup
5 SATA Drives.. only 4 SATA ports... I have YET to see a board with 5
or 6 SATA ports.. Either keep the DVD and lose 1-2 Hds as SATA.. or
just get an IDE DVDburner..

I see this is a dream machine.. but realistically.. 50% of this will be
obsolete in about 3 years.. granted you can upgrade some things.. but
in time.. you'll be close to this point again.. And i hate to burst
your bubble.. but No matter how "High Quality" the part may be.. they
can and do still fail..

oh and you say your probally gonna have up to 3 network cards?!?!? this
gonna be a server or a toy? server.. thats fine and dandy... Toy...
Ditch them all and stick to one thats built into a MB...

ok.. now to answer your questions..
1. Box Vs OEM.. Box is as you would buy from a store, has a heatsink
and fan with it and already has a thermal compound on it. OEM No
Heatsink or fan.. just the CPU.. you'll have to buy your own Heatsink.
In either case, most power users, and seasoned computer builders dont
trust that pre-installed compound and take it off to apply something
alot better.. like Artic silver 5..

2. 1GB Lan cards will only attain the speed if ALL the cards in the
network are 1GB.. Your Cable will come in at 5MB Tops.. rather
pointless unless in a corporate enviroment.

3. There are Cheaper low end and "hybrid" SLI Graphic cards that would
use that..

4. and 7. - externally.. no you cannot plug a usb cable into a Firewire
port.. unless you really force it.. internally.. they are the same
shape connector.. How can it damage.. easy.. power goes both ways..
take 12V and pop it into your 5v line.. look at it fry...mmmm Crispy..

5. In a system like yours.. Get a name brand Antec, Enermax, or Sparkle
PSU and get 500W with a HIGH 12v+ Amp rails..

6. if your using an add on card, then its possibly refering to inputs
for non-standard sources.. you should be fine in that case of a CD
playing..

8. The power supply has an on/off switch on it as well now.. pluging in
while on "CAN" cause a surge.. espcially with a big PSU Like you gonna
need.. you may see the lights flicker when you power on..

9. Unfortuatly, if you press the button on the front you computer will
NOT just pop and go right off.. the OS will stop it from doing so to
prevent damag and data loss.. you must hold for 5+ seconds to just make
it pop off, but dont do it if you can avoid it.. you have a reset
button for a reason.. use it sparingly though..

10. Yes or no... Yes you can have ONLY SATA Hard Drives in the
computer.. BUT.. I've had problems using Pre-SP2 XP install disks to
install the OS as XP pre-SP1 or SP2 didn't have native installer
support for SATA drives, and needed a floppy drive to install it.. (get
a floppy drive just in case.. I've not installed using an SP2 Disk yet)

Now for Recommendations..
Cables - Most of the parts you will buy will have its cables with it..
you will have left over cables.
Screws - See Cables

Cases and Power Supplies - Goto www.newegg.com, Antec, Enermax,
Sparkle, Thermaltake, Coolermaster, and a few others are really good..
read the reviews.

Networking devices.. if splitting Broadband internet (cable/dsl or
better) then get a router from either Linksys, D-link, or Netgear. and
split it all that way.. if you were gonna split the internet through
this computer.. save your money on all those extra network cards.. the
router is a better, faster, safer and more secure idea...

That looks like it answered the most of your questions..

 

[Marcel Overweel]

Hi,
(snip)

Here is the list, all prices are in euro's.

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Toledo 4800+, Socket 939, Boxed
Price: 919

Videocard1: nVidia GeForce 7800 GTX (Gigabyte GV-NX78X256V-B 256 MB, PCI
Express x16 )
Price: 540

(Second videocard 2 optional/expansion: )

Videocard2: nVidia GeForce 7800 GTX (Gigabyte GV-NX78X256V-B 256 MB, PCI
Express x16 )
Price: 540
(snip)

Bye,
Skybuck.

1080? just for graphics, cool!
But if you really want to make a dream PC ... and it seems you have enough
money ... , I would go for a 512MB model.
The game industry is moving fast and 256MB isn't considered as top-notch
anymore even now.

regards,
Marcel

 

[Skybuck Flying]

1080? just for graphics, cool!
But if you really want to make a dream PC ... and it seems you have enough
money ... , I would go for a 512MB model.
The game industry is moving fast and 256MB isn't considered as top-notch
anymore even now.

I would prefer to get a 512 MB nVidia GeForce 7800 GTX but there aren't any
for sale yet ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Marcel Overweel]

I would prefer to get a 512 MB nVidia GeForce 7800 GTX but there aren't any
for sale yet ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

Ehm.. good point...

Marcel

 

[Skybuck Flying]

OK.. Whoa.. Thats quite a system....
lets take a smaller summary look shall we?
AMD64x2 4800+
MB - Undetermined, needs SLI... (Abit Fatal1ty-Sli looks good to me)

Ok I'll look into it.

4Gb Ram DDR400
2Tbs (500Gbx4) SATA Hds..
CD-RW (Ide)
DVD+/-RW (DL) (SATA)
Well for starters you got a problem in your setup
5 SATA Drives.. only 4 SATA ports... I have YET to see a board with 5
or 6 SATA ports.. Either keep the DVD and lose 1-2 Hds as SATA.. or
just get an IDE DVDburner..

I have seen manuals of asus or gigabyte motherboards (can't remember which
maybe both) which have 8 sata connectors.

4 "normal" sata connectors and 4 "raid" sata connectors.

These motherboards have build in raid support so it seems they are trying to
promote raid "as the way to go lol".

So for me there are 3 possibilities:

1. Four seperate logical harddisks.
2. One big logical harddisk (just a bunch of disks combined opposite of
raid)
3. One big raid harddisk.

I do have a question about option 2.

Is it possible to expand the size of the logical disk by simply adding more
harddisks ?

Suppose I go for option 2 one big disks. Then I could use the special 4 raid
sata connectors. However first I would like to use just one special sata
connector
hopefully that's possible

So that leaves the other 4 sata connectors and 2 ide connectors free to be
used for what ever purpose

I see this is a dream machine.. but realistically.. 50% of this will be
obsolete in about 3 years.. granted you can upgrade some things.. but

Yes I agree with you upon this point. That's why my strategy/tactic is to
stuff it full with the best of best at the moment so that I don't need to
upgrade.

The socket 939 seems to be at the end of it's road. So future AMD processors
will probably use a new socket.

So this would prevent me from upgrading to a different processor in the
future which is a real bitch limitation

Also the DDR I memory architecture is supposed to be replaced by the
somewhat slower DDRII access memory.

So in the future these DDR I modules might become more expensive because
they not produced anymore.

All motherboards which I have seen so far only have 4 memory slots ? with
current supported memory modules this allows 4 GB as a maximum which for a
maximum is not a lot.

Though memory requirements are under 1 GB mostly today so maybe 4 GB will be
enough for the coming years

in time.. you'll be close to this point again.. And i hate to burst
your bubble.. but No matter how "High Quality" the part may be.. they
can and do still fail..

No I think 3 to 5 years is a good estimate. And yes they could fail but I
hope not

oh and you say your probally gonna have up to 3 network cards?!?!? this
gonna be a server or a toy? server.. thats fine and dandy... Toy...
Ditch them all and stick to one thats built into a MB...

Depends... I like having at least 2 network cards in them.

One for the internet and one for the local network.

However as you pointed out below getting/using a switch only requires one
network card.

But still... what if I want a private network

So whatever the case might be having 2 network cards in the PC is the way to
go

With utp cross over cable it's always easy to connect two pc's quickly
togather to transfer
some files for example while the other network card can still be used to
surf the net

The reason to get seperate network cards is too unload the CPU a bit.

The onboard network chips etc probably use some CPU etc... and maybe the
onboard network chips dont achieve full throughput ?

Seperate network cards might also have other nice features like
"scatter/gather" or other stuff which onboard chips might not have.

ok.. now to answer your questions..
1. Box Vs OEM.. Box is as you would buy from a store, has a heatsink
and fan with it and already has a thermal compound on it. OEM No

Weird, you mean the paste is already applied, won't that dry up like that ?

Why don't they completely mount it, or leave it completely seperate with a
paste tube ?

Heatsink or fan.. just the CPU.. you'll have to buy your own Heatsink.
In either case, most power users, and seasoned computer builders dont
trust that pre-installed compound and take it off to apply something
alot better.. like Artic silver 5..

Hmm ok good tip.

I can always get some extra paste stuff like that... however I do hope the
manufacturer tested it's own "compound" while the artic silver 5 might be
less well tested ??? or maybe even more by all the builders ?

2. 1GB Lan cards will only attain the speed if ALL the cards in the
network are 1GB.. Your Cable will come in at 5MB Tops.. rather
pointless unless in a corporate enviroment.

Yes I understand that, though it would be cool if my private network was 1
GB lan.

Suppose I dont have a private lan and an internet lan but just one big lan.

Suppose I connect my cable modem to a switch and all other computers to this
switch as well.

Surely it's still possible for the computers to communicate at 1 GB speeds
through the switch like a local lan ?

3. There are Cheaper low end and "hybrid" SLI Graphic cards that would
use that..

Hmm ok... euhm SLI ? I saw only one black small slot

So the other card would have to go in an pci express slot ?

4. and 7. - externally.. no you cannot plug a usb cable into a Firewire
port.. unless you really force it.. internally.. they are the same
shape connector.. How can it damage.. easy.. power goes both ways..
take 12V and pop it into your 5v line.. look at it fry...mmmm Crispy..

Ok, so while connecting the usb and firewire stuff internally it can screw
up.

I haven't looked at firewire... I think I dont really need it... but it
might be nice to have just in case
me or somebody else has like a digital camera or something

Do I need to get a seperate fireware card or thingy or is it included with
the case or motherboard ?

5. In a system like yours.. Get a name brand Antec, Enermax, or Sparkle
PSU and get 500W with a HIGH 12v+ Amp rails..

Rails ?

6. if your using an add on card, then its possibly refering to inputs
for non-standard sources.. you should be fine in that case of a CD
playing..

No that was from the motherboard manual... about the internal audio
connectors being disabled when playing sound in 8 channel audio mode.

That could mean cd's can't be played while using 8 channel audio mode.

8. The power supply has an on/off switch on it as well now.. pluging in
while on "CAN" cause a surge.. espcially with a big PSU Like you gonna
need.. you may see the lights flicker when you power on..

9. Unfortuatly, if you press the button on the front you computer will
NOT just pop and go right off.. the OS will stop it from doing so to
prevent damag and data loss.. you must hold for 5+ seconds to just make
it pop off, but dont do it if you can avoid it.. you have a reset
button for a reason.. use it sparingly though..

The motherboard bios should have an option to turn off the computer while
simply pressing the power button for one second or so.

My current motherboard/bios can do this

No need to hold the button for 5 seconds what's so ever.

What would happen if it's only held for 1 second... probably sleep mode or
shit like that... that's how I wrecked a motherboard once, it's a stupid
invention etc.

People expect the power to be turned off by just pressing once.

Suppose somebody comes into my room wants to turn off the computer and
pressess the button once... it goes to sleep mode
lights keep burning, guy/girl panicks presses the button again and again and
again, thereby wrecking the computer <- nasty problem

Ofcourse it won't be a problem since I'll make damn sure it's configured
right in the first place =D

10. Yes or no... Yes you can have ONLY SATA Hard Drives in the
computer.. BUT.. I've had problems using Pre-SP2 XP install disks to
install the OS as XP pre-SP1 or SP2 didn't have native installer
support for SATA drives, and needed a floppy drive to install it.. (get
a floppy drive just in case.. I've not installed using an SP2 Disk yet)

Hmm as long as their is a bootable CD ide drive I dont think floppy drives
should be necessary.

The necessary drives or extra files could be supplied on a CD.

Though this is a good point.

Windows xp 32 bit is kinda old for this new stuff.

The question is if windows xp 64 bit edition has support for these newer
sata drives.

Though in case I want a windows xp 32 bit boot partition this problem is
definetly worth looking into some more
to see if a floppy disk is really needed or if it can be done via CD's only


Ofcourse this would require a IDE CD drive... otherwise "we" sata only users
would be screwed lol.

Now for Recommendations..
Cables - Most of the parts you will buy will have its cables with it..
you will have left over cables.

Screws - See Cables

This is what I am most worried about... the little things like screws.

Last time I bought a harddisk.. it didn't come with matching screws.

How do I make sure I have all the necessary little things like matching
screws etc ????

I would prefer not having to go to my local store again for these little
things...

Maybe a screw pack can be bought somewhere... though it would be best
if it came with the harddisk in the first place etc =D

Cases and Power Supplies - Goto www.newegg.com, Antec, Enermax,
Sparkle, Thermaltake, Coolermaster, and a few others are really good..
read the reviews.

Networking devices.. if splitting Broadband internet (cable/dsl or
better) then get a router from either Linksys, D-link, or Netgear. and
split it all that way.. if you were gonna split the internet through
this computer.. save your money on all those extra network cards.. the
router is a better, faster, safer and more secure idea...

That looks like it answered the most of your questions..

Not really, it had some good points.

Though it's too general... I need details and clear instructions.

Where to get the screws ? What kind of screws ? What about mounting devices
are those needed for these harddisks ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Neil Maxwell]

Here is the list, all prices are in euro's.

Wow! That new data encoding design of yours is really paying off!

 

[NoRemorse]

--
NoRemorse
"Expect me when you see me."

Hi,

My mother and other family members are starting to become PC savy and
they are starting to hate me for playing on "their" PC lol. Today I wanted
to go over there and play Dungeon Siege 2 but nope. Not allowed to play
there. So I was stuck to my old PIII 450 mhz with GeForce FX 5200 and bad
crackling sound etc because of buggy/damaged asus p3v4x/via chipset, not
at
all an enjoyable experience compared to the fast good sounding PC

So instead of playing Dungeon Siege 2 I again looked at my 2005 (dream) pc
design for me.

It hasn't changed much (Only crt monitor selected quickly) . Though today
I
decided to calculate how much it would cost. To my surprise not that much.
It falls well within my 5000 euro budget

What I need help with is determining which motherboard is best suited for
the list/design. Also what case to get. Also are there any other
components
missing ? like screws or mounting devices or controllers etc or things
like
usb, ps/2 ports or maybe that s integrated into the case and what about
power supply ?

Here is the list, all prices are in euro's.

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Toledo 4800+, Socket 939, Boxed
Price: 919

Videocard1: nVidia GeForce 7800 GTX (Gigabyte GV-NX78X256V-B 256 MB, PCI
Express x16 )
Price: 540

(Second videocard 2 optional/expansion: )

Videocard2: nVidia GeForce 7800 GTX (Gigabyte GV-NX78X256V-B 256 MB, PCI
Express x16 )
Price: 540

Motherboard: no idea (asus seems to be bad quality, many problems, maybe
giga-byte is much better <-seems to have less problems in newsgroups at
least )
Price: about 150

Memory module1: Samsung Original DDR SDRAM, 1 GB, PC3200, 400 MHz, -
Price: 112

Memory module2: Samsung Original DDR SDRAM, 1 GB, PC3200, 400 MHz, -
Price: 112

Memory module3: Samsung Original DDR SDRAM, 1 GB, PC3200, 400 MHz, -
Price: 112

Memory module4: Samsung Original DDR SDRAM, 1 GB, PC3200, 400 MHz, -
Price: 112

Harddisk1: Hitachi Desktstar 7K500 500 GB, 7.200 rpm, 16 MB, SATA II
(HDS725050KLA360 )
Price: 382

(Second, third, fourth hardisk optional/expansion: )

Harddisk2: Hitachi Desktstar 7K500 500 GB, 7.200 rpm, 16 MB, SATA II
(HDS725050KLA360 )
Price: 382

Harddisk3: Hitachi Desktstar 7K500 500 GB, 7.200 rpm, 16 MB, SATA II
(HDS725050KLA360 )
Price: 382

Harddisk4: Hitachi Desktstar 7K500 500 GB, 7.200 rpm, 16 MB, SATA II
(HDS725050KLA360 )
Price: 382

Soundblaster: Creative SoundBlaster Audigy 4 Pro Retail
Price: 235

Speakerset: Creative GigaWorks S750
Price: 380

CD Rewriter: Plextor PX-230A 52 x, 32 x, 52 x, White, Retail (PX-230A/T3)
Price: 36

DVD Rewriter: Plextor PX-716SA 16 x, 6 x, 16 x, White, Retail (PX-716SA)
Price: 116

Monitor: Iiyama HM903DTB 19 inch, Ivory (HM903DTB)
Price: 377

(This keyboard might be a bit junky, though I have enough keyboards at
home,
dirty though... still 10 bucks for a new keyboard not bad nice to have
an
extra new one )

Keyboard: Logitech Internet Pro Keyboard White, OEM
Price: 10

( I like these logitech pilot mouses a lot, nice and simple, I am probably
going to buy a couple of time in case they aren't produced anymore, I
broke
a couple of them but that the hell, don't break em in the first place lol)

Mouse: Logitech Pilot Wheel Mouse Grey, OEM
Price: 6

I highly recommend the Logitech wireless mice. I have the MX700 (which is
pretty old) and I have no lag at all in games. And batteries are
rechargeable.

(Networkcard for hopefully unloading the CPU a little, so more CPU power
for
other tasks
also nice to have 10/100/1000 gigabit card etc )

Networkcard1: Linksys EG1032
Price: 28

( Second network card optional, depending on the integrated motherboard's
network stuff. I might buy some extra high speed network cards for this
and
other older pc's. Though I am not sure if this network card is a PCI or
PCI
express card ? )

Right now, network cards are most likely PCI.

Networkcard2: Linksys EG1032
Price: 28

Basic price:

Processor: 919
Videocard1: 540
Motherboard: 150
Memory module1: 112
Memory module2: 112
Memory module3: 112
Memory module4: 112
Harddisk1: 382
Soundblaster: 235
Speakerset: 380
CD Rewriter: 36
DVD Rewriter: 116
Monitor: 377
Keyboard: 10
Mouse: 6
Networkcard: 28

Basic Price: 3627

Harddisk1: 382
Harddisk2: 382
Harddisk3: 382
Videocard2: 540
Networkcard2: 28

Extra Price: 1714 (<- pretty expensive, could wait till prices drop )

The most important part is that every component is high quality (= long
life
time). The second most important part is speed/performance/visual
quality/sound quality etc.

The motherboard/bios is a single point of failure, since they are pretty
cheap compared to the rest of the system I could simply buy two or three
motherboards in case the first one fails. I do not want downtime or having
to buy all new components if the motherboard dies in a couple of years and
future/new motherboards cant handle these by then older components This
PC must last for at least 5 to 10 years ( 5 to 6 years of heavy use and
4
to 5 years gathering dust and an occasional use )

The cpu is also a point of failure as well as the power supply. However
hopefully power supplies will be compatible in the future. In case the
motherboard has an outdated bios and needs to be flashed to support a new
bios it might be necessary to buy a really cheap cpu... Still wasting 150
euro's or so just for a bios upgrade is a bit much I do plan on phoning
up the supplier to ask about the bios version but maybe it's best to go
with
a cheap cpu to be able to flash the bios just in case... thereby
preventing
the dead in the water risk

A bad bios flash shouldn't be a problem anymore. Check the motherboard's
features, but it should have something to compensate for a screwed up bios
flash. Some boards have dual-bioses and others have a non-modifiable boot
area which lets you flash a new bios even if the existing one is hosed.

So what is still missing from this picture/list:

Case ?
Controller(s) ?
Power cables and such ?
Screws, other mounting devices ?
Network cables ?
Network switch ?
Usb stuff ?

Existing boards should have plenty of USB ports.

PS/2 Ports ?

2 PS/2 ports should be available on your board.

Serial Ports ?

These will probably not be available depending on the motherboard you buy.

Power supply ?
Extra fans ?

I also have some old IDE drives so a motherboard with IDE support would be
nice to connect
the old ones in case necessary.

I have read some manuals in the past and have some question about that too
which are below, though first I would like answers to the questions above
which would already make me quit happy =D

Additional far sought and hard questions:

1. What exactly is a boxed cpu ?

I think it's a cpu with thermal interface material applied and a heatsink
and fan on it ?

( Are there drawback to such a construction ? for example thermal stuff
drying up or something ?
Maybe not even well applied ? (anybody ever seen a **** up from a factory
? )

A boxed CPU comes with a heatsink/fan and some thermal paste or thermal
tape. You have to install it yourself anyway. An OEM or tray CPU will be
just the CPU itself and nothing more. If you buy a motherboard with it, the
seller might install the CPU in the motherboard, but it depends.

2. Some motherboard have onboard gigabit ethernet lan/stuff, will these
works with a cable modem ?
(Motoral cable modem SB4200E)

Since I am planning on seperate network cards and these network cards
support 10/100/1000 I think this is not an issue but still, this explains
why I want seperate network card just in case and also still not sure if
these seperate network cards will work with it

The gigabit ethernet cards are backward-compatible with 10 and 100 megabit
cards. That includes the cable modem too.

3. I saw a recent motherboard it had this extra 4x pci slot it was black
and
really small, what exactly is this ?

The manual said it could be used for an extra graphics card but it seems
so
small ?

It's possibly for future PCI-Express expansion cards.

4. Is it possible to connect a firewire connector into an usb slot or vice
versa ? the manual says that might damage the motherboard etc.

Don't do it. I assume you mean the connectors that connect the front/back
usb/firewire sockets to the motherboard. Be careful with them and don't mix
them up.

5. Power requirements of my design above

High much voltage do all components require, cpu, videocard, harddisks,
optical drives, etc, etc ?
High much ampere do all components require, cpu, videocard, harddisks,
optical drives, etc, etc ?

How to calculate these power requirements ?

The power supply should be able to deliver this ammount of voltage and
ampere.

A motherboard manual mentioned 500 watt and 25A at least

Make sure to get a brand name power supply. 500-600W should be fine.

6. Some motherboard manual said: Internal audio connectors are disabled
during 8 audio channel mode. ?

Suppose the internal audio connectors go to the CD drive, does this mean
the
CD drive can't play a music CD while the harddisk is used to play a game ?

(I think one of my previous pc's could do that sometime in the past...
maybe
it was
on the gigabyte motherboard... oh well I dont have any cd's anyway...
except
for a half damaged mp3 cd )

7. A manual said:

Note firewire is +12v compared to +5 for usb. Never connect usb to
firewire
that could destroy the motherboard. why actually ?

Pins and voltages don't match. If you mix up the connectors, it's possible
you could cause a short between +12V or +5V and ground through the
motherboard and burn out some part of it. Not good. Be careful with the
USB/firewire connectors. Also make sure that the pins of the connectors
match up with the motherboard pinout.

8. A manual said:

Make sure the power button is off.

How does one make sure all power buttons are off ?? before connecting the
power cable ?

They probably mean the power button on the power supply. Some people advise
to leave the power supply plugged in and turn it off when you are doing
things inside the case. That way, your case is grounded and you can get rid
of some of the static electricity by touching the metal parts of the case
once in a while.

In the past power buttons where these flip switches, now it's just push
button which goes back out etc so it's impossible to tell if it's on or
off
when looking at the power button only

Power buttons on power supplies have I and O on them. When I is pressed that
means ON. When O is pressed it means OFF.

9. Power button should turn off the pc no matter what !

The one in the back of the power supply, yes. The front power button will
react differently based on the current state of the PC. If you are still in
the BIOS, it will turn it off immediately. If your OS has booted already,
pressing the front power button will initiate whatever shutdown procedures
your OS requires. To shut the computer down immediately, you have to hold
the power button for a few seconds.

Also, some bioses allow you to program the front power button so that it
causes the computer to go into standby mode.

10. Is it required to install an IDE harddisk ? or is it possible to have
SATA drives only ?

Yes, you can have only SATA drives. Make sure you get a motherboard with
native SATA (or SATA integrated in the chipset instead of an addon chip). It
will simplify the installation of your OS. Most of the newest motherboards
have SATA in the chipset already. Some boards also have addon chips for SATA
or IDE installed in addition to native SATA.

A manual said: "no ide harddisk detected" in the post report.

Maybe the word "ide" should have been left out of this description

You can usually ignore that message. Most likely, it came from the addon
chip. If you disable the addon chip, the message will go away. Of course if
you connected something to the addon chip like a CDROM drive, then you'll
just have to live with the message.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

OK.. Whoa.. Thats quite a system....
lets take a smaller summary look shall we?
AMD64x2 4800+
MB - Undetermined, needs SLI... (Abit Fatal1ty-Sli looks good to me)

I actually wanted to review this motherboard's manual Abit Fatal1ty-sli a
few weeks or months ago.

But the website didn't allow me to download it. The download was not
working.

Today however it worked and I reviewed the manual.

It's the best manual I have seen so far. Very detailed etc.

It seems to be Skybuck worthy

It doesn't have as many "ports" as for example gigabyte or asus
motherboards... which have like 8 sata connectors but those require raid I
think...

The fatality board can still do raid if I really want it so that s cool.

Here is the full set of features:

1. CPU
.. Supports AMD Athlon 64/64FX 939-pin K8 CPU with 2GHz system bus using
Hyper Transport Technology
.. Supports AMD CPU Cool .n. Quiet Technology

2. Chipset
.. NVIDIA nForce4 SLI single chip
.. Integrated NVIDIA Gigabit Ethernet and NVIDIA Firewall

3. NVIDIA SLI Technology
.. Two PCI-Express X16 slots support NVIDIA Scalable Link Interface
.. Increase bandwidth of the PCI Express. bus providing 60x the bandwidth of
PCI

4. Memory
.. Four 184-pin DIMM sockets
.. Supports 4 DIMM Dual DDR 400/333/266 non-ECC un-buffered memory
.. Supports maximum memory capacity up to 4GB

5. ABIT Engineered
.. ABIT uGuru. 2003 Technology
.. ABIT OTES. Technology
.. ABIT AudioMAX. Technology
.. ABIT CPU ThermalGuard. Technology

6. NV SATA RAID
.. Supports SATA 3Gbps data transfer rate
.. Supports SATA RAID 0/1/0+1

7. NV GbE LAN
.. NVIDIA Gigabit Ethernet Controller
.. NVIDIA Secure Networking Engine

8. NV Firewall
.. Native NVIDIA Firewall

9. IEEE 1394
.. Supports IEEE 1394 at 100/200/400 Mb/s transfer rate

10. Audio
.. High quality 7.1-channel Audio Card
.. Optical S/P DIF In/Out
.. Supports auto jack sensing

(Didn't read about auto jack sensing in manual though )

11. Internal I/O Connectors

.. 2x PCI-E X16 slot
.. 2x PCI-E X1 slots
.. 2x PCI slots
.. 1x Audio daughter card port
.. 1x Floppy port supports up to 2.88MB
.. 2x Ultra DMA 133/100/66/33 IDE connectors
.. 4x SATA 3G connectors
.. 3x USB headers
.. 1x IEEE 1394 header

12. Back Panel I/O
.. 1x IEEE 1394 Connector
.. 1x PS/2 keyboard, 1x PS/2 mouse
.. 4x USB, 1x RJ-45 LAN Connector
.. 1x Dual OTES

13. Miscellaneous
.. ATX form factor: 305 x 245 mm

This future list is not as long as asus sli-delux manual etc... but asus is
taking it to the extreme with the feature list mentioning every little
thingy like cpu fan connectors etc.

What I am missing in fatalities list is a serial com port ? I might not need
it but still I am used to seeing one hehe.

I have many questions about the manual and the motherboard...

Question about fatality motherboard:

1. Table 2-2 what's that about ?

2. Why is this extra sli switch card necessary ? other motherboards dont
seem to need/have this ???

3. SLI Bridge connector necessary ?

4. Extra bios settings necessary for SLI mode, mostly disabling stuff...

Disabling cool and quite has me worried a bit... the system may be
unstable
without disabling this in sli mode.

5. what is a header ?

Apperently it's a type of connector/socket... like these square/rectangle
things
where plugs go into ? like fan connectors etc and the power connector
etc..

6. What's a VDC rail ?

"
NOTE: For a heavily loaded system, a power supply that provides a minimum of
350W and 20A on the +5VDC rail is recommended. To support wake-up features,
2A on the +5VSB rail is required.
"

7. Nice many fan connectors

What are OTES fans or connectors ?

8. Guru panel what s that ?

9. It says general you only need one floppy drive in your computer system.

I do agree a floppy system could be handy in for despirate needs
though it does take up a lot of extra space ! space which could
be used for more powerfull devices like cd or dvd or hd

10. The post led indicator.

My comments on it.. I rather have some beeps... or morse code... but then
again
these beeps might be hard to figure out... because you have to count them
etc...

But the big adventage of the beeps is you dont have to open the case etc...

Also I liked one motherboard's solution which used a "voice" to tell what
the problem was... <- neat.


11. What is this audio daughter card ? it's position seems strange...

What if I dont want it etc... or want an extra sound card ??

of now I see it's position is at the top of the expansion cards
so that's possible


12. Why only using the bios during installation. Is using the bios dangerous
or something ?

13. what does EQ mean in like FanEQ1 control ?

14. Why is this ?

"
NOTE: Please disable all the FanEQ control items (CPU, NB,
SYS, OTES1, OTES2 and AUX FanEQ Control) while running under SLI mode.
"

15. Bios section seems a little out of date... It mentions IDE channels
instead
of SATA channels ?

16

What is this exactly ???

"
MPS Version Ctrl For OS:
This item specifies which version of MPS
(Multi-Processor Specification) this motherboard will use.
Leave this item to its default setting.
"


17.

Lol what's this:

"
Full Screen LOGO Show:
This item determines to show the full screen logo when booting.
"

A logo show ?


18.

What would be the adventage of disabling the clock signal ???

Disable unused PCI Clock:

"This option disables the clock of PCI slot that is not in use. "

19.

HT Frequency:
This item selects the LDT Bus Frequency.
HT Width:
This item selects the LDT Bus Width.

What is an LDT bus ?

20.

'
System BIOS Cacheable:
Two options are available: Disabled or Enabled.
When you select Enabled,
you get faster system BIOS executing speed via the L2 cache.
"

L2 cache seems valuable. What would be the adventage of running the bios
in the L2 cache ?

Bios is only necessary for booting or other stuff ???

To me it seems doing this would only take up value L2 cache space ???

21.

Interesting what is this:

"IDE Prefetch Mode:" ?

22. Ok in the raid section it does mentation SATA etc

23.

What is an Onboard FDC Controller ?

24.

In what cases could this matter ?

Init Display First:
This item selects which display slot to be initialized first when the system
boots.
[PCI Slot]: When the system boots, it will first initialize PCI.
[PCIEx]: When the system boots, it will first initialize PCIE

25.

When set to [Enabled], you can remotely wake up a PC in Soft-Off condition
via a LAN card that support the wake up function.

What kind of network card is needed for this and is it possible via the
internet ???

26. Cool feature:


Wake-Up by Alarm:
"
Two options are available: Disabled or Enabled.
The default setting is Disabled. When set to Enabled,
you can set the date and time at which the RTC (real-time clock)
alarm awakens the system from Suspend mode
"

Only suspend mode ? hmmm a bit less cool but ok

27.

Again why ?

"
Cool ?n? Quiet Technology:
This option enables or disables the AMD K8 cool
and quiet function. NOTE: Please disable this item while running under SLI
mode.
"

28. Very nice option.

I would choose power off in all cases.

For example a powerloss occurs me goes to sleep, and in the middle of the
night
the power comes back on lol.

Or even worse: power on, power off, power on, power off... that would be bad


Better to keep it off until power is back to normal


Restore on AC Power Loss:
This item selects the system action after an AC power failure.
[Power Off]: When power returns after an AC power failure, the system?s
power remains off. You must press the Power button to power-on the system.
[Power On]: When power returns after an AC power failure, the system?s
power will be powered on automatically.
[Last State]: When power returns after an AC power failure, the system
will return to the state where you left off before power failure occurs.
If the system?s power is off when AC power failure occurs, it will remain
off when power returns. If the system?s power is on when AC power failure
occurs, the system will power-on when power returns.

29

What the hell does this mean "allow palette snoop" ?

Sounds like some 256 color table or something


PCI/VGA Palette Snoop:
This item determines whether the MPEG ISA/VESA VGA cards can work with
PCI/VGA or not.
[Disabled]: MPEG ISA/VESA VGA cards do not work with PCI/VGA.
[Enabled]: MPEG ISA/VESA VGA cards work with PCI/VGA

30

Maximum Payload Size:
This item sets the maximum TLP payload size for the PCI Express devices.

TLP what s that ?

31.

SM Bus ?

SW IDE drivers ? gjez lot's of abbrevations.

32.

Realtek AC 97 Audio ? seems old.


33. A very good question if a floppy disk is still needed because some
drivers
might be delivered on floppy disks ?!?!?!

Though it says all drivers are on CD and can be downloaded so I am not
really worried.

It only seems necessary to make a RAID diskette... can't that be done in
some other way ?

34.

Interesting does this mean the computer is protected from rapid power on,
power off, power on etc ?

Q: Why does the system fail to boot up again right after a mechanical
power-off?
A: Please keep a 30-second interval between each mechanical power On/Off.

Nice But could be weird for some folks lol "why doesnt it start lol"
cool.

35.

Is this an alternate way of resetting the cmos data ?

"
Step 1. Switch off the power supply unit and then switch it on again after
one minute. If there is no power switch on the power supply unit, disconnect
its power cord for one minute and then reconnect.
Press and hold the <Insert> key on the keyboard, and press the power-on
button to boot up system. If it works, release the <Insert> key and hit
<Del> key to enter the BIOS setup page to apply the correct settings.
"

36.

Automatically when it runs the sound card Driver,.
This problem may be due to the sound card driver.
During the Starting DOS? procedure, press SHIFT (BY-PASS) key, to skip
CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT;

Cool pressing shift bypasses it... lol didn't know that. I usually used F8
to confirm each line

37.

The technical support form seems out of date... No sata box etc. Only ide1
and ide2

No mention of dvd drive only cd drive, which is nearly the same

So the manual raised 37 questions/comments compared to about 12
questions/comments of the asus manual

I am not saying if that's a good or a bad thing it's just a statistic

I am very much interested in this motherboard.

The most important questions/answers for me are: 2,3,4,7,14,20,21,23, 27

Other interesting questions/answers are: 6, 8, 13, 16, 18, 19, 24, 25, 29,
30, 31, 35.

So in reality about 21 real questions and the rest are comments.

I have had a giga-byte motherboard in the past which died probably because
of power on/power off/power on/power off or bad bios or bangs to it hehe.

I still have a asus motherboard probably damaged by some previous user etc
or maybe just bad chipset etc.

So now it seems only fair to buy an A-BIT motherboard Their head office
is in Taiwan =D

I like stuff from Taiwan =D Hopefully this motherboard is made in Taiwan
since I think Taiwan is good quality

The most important questions though are 2,3,4. These questions are about the
extra stuff to make SLI work...

Like the SLI switch board and the SLI bridge connector and stuff like that ?

I haven't seen this kind of stuff mentioned in other motherboard manuals.

Does this mean that other motherboard have this stuff integrated etc ? or
does this mean the other motherboard manuals simply failed to mention it ???

Also why is the SLI switch board necessary ? Couldn't this have been done
via a bios option like in other motherboards ?

To me the SLI switch board and the SLI bridge seems like a sort of RUSH job
or a quick patch for the bleeding.

However I am willing to buy this A-BIT motherboard to give it a try etc
It will be my first A-BIT motherboard =D

And the best part of it all is this board is available at the internet store
where I could buy all the mentioned components However that's not certain
yet... I might first compare prices and experiences of other internet stores
and people etc.

I am done reviewing the motherboards manual... the only thing left for me to
do is read reviews of this motherboard in action =D

Thanks for this tip.

I sure hope this motherboard will fit in and be the missing piece of the
puzzle =D

The next important task after this one is finding a new case to house all
this stuff =D

And a good powerfull power supply. I already seen one fanless one but I
don't think it will supply enough power not sure though

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

OK.. Whoa.. Thats quite a system....
lets take a smaller summary look shall we?
AMD64x2 4800+
MB - Undetermined, needs SLI... (Abit Fatal1ty-Sli looks good to me)

Actually I just noticed something else.

This fatality motherboard does not have a parallel printer port ???

I am from an ancient era when they still used parallel printer ports I still
have such a printer

an NEC P20 lol.

My parents have a modern printer though... I think it uses USB or
something... needed special cable
for it as well which probably wasn't develired with the printer... Can't
remember though... I think I had to go buy it oh well.

The P20 nec printer sometimes produces some weird characters when drawing a
diagram

The damn thing never printed well in dos... specially not with chain paper
lol... but with manual feeded lose papers and windows drivers it prints
quite well for such an old shabby printer lol.

Though I should get a really cheap new printer just to print something in
black once half a year or so =D

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

I think your signature didn't work unless it's supposed to be on the top


Update: at the end of your post is another signature

May I suggest you disable your mail program's automatic signature since it's
clearly not working lol =D
Unless you like to have a top signature as well =D coooool hahahahaha.

I have seen this behaviour in outlook express so I am guessing you have
outlook express =D

Try inserting it manually lol.

I had a whole discussion about this stuff once

It supposed to be dash dash space.

Though outlook makes it dash dash space space

Or maybe that's beside the point and outlook simply inserts it completely
wrongly

Apperently outlook express assumes people want to top post

Anyway back to the topic at hand:

"Expect me when you see me."


I highly recommend the Logitech wireless mice. I have the MX700 (which is
pretty old) and I have no lag at all in games. And batteries are
rechargeable.

DENIED =D

I don't want any wireless shit. A mouse cable is not much of problem for me.

Granted if it's too short that s a bitch. And granted I do place my speaker
into the mouse wire
so the mouse wire doesnt pull the mouse away but still.

Just the idea of having to recharge batteries to make my mouse work lol.

Talk about major stupid downtime lol =D lolololol.

OOOOOOOOOHhhhhhhhh nnnnnnooooooooooooooo

Now I require TWO sets of batteries.

I can see the horror now lol:

OHHHHHHHHHHHHNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO

I forgot to reload the spare batteries OHHHHHHNOOOOOOOOOOO lol.

NONONONONONONO

I am a very very very very very heavy PC user.

And worse I am a programmer TOO.

I won some wireless equipment once and I used it... then I was programming
and everything started to act weird... the keyboard started to stutter and
hang and the mouse started to stutter and hang... during programming and
during games.

That's really bad... Because then I think the program is at fault or the
game is at fault.

Even more annoying another HP wireless keyboard started displaying a warning
message during the god damn game: A big yellow sign with a battery almost
empty warning.

OH MY GOD so ****ing annoying and furiating. It totally ruined the whole
game experience.

My blood and hart started pumping with RAGE and finally I decided to do
something about it AND KILL OFF THE GOD DAMN APPLICATION that was causing it
ARRRGGHHHHHHHhhhhhhh so hatefull.

NOOOOONONONOnonononononono.

I have had anything wireless trouble and anger and fury to last a lifetime.

So I say: "NO to this kind of wireless stuff which could go empty
blablablalbla BAD"

Some mouses even have an eye blinding power hungy laser YIKES =D

I think some people even have problems with these laser mouses since they
work only if the surface has texture... they need to determine how much it
moved etc... so on some surfaces these mouses might not even work bleh.

Right now, network cards are most likely PCI.

Ok, so this is the same PCI that was used like 3 to 5 years ago ?

I still have an old pentium 166 which I would also like to equiped with a
faster network card maybe 100 or maybe even 1000... however the P166 might
not be able to achieve this speed... at least not in windows 98 or so
possibly... but maybe in dos where it has full power

Though the motherboard of the P166 does have PCI slots... but hidden away in
a weird way so that might not be possible... Maybe there are some ISA
100/1000 gigabit lan network cards ?

My PIII 450 mhz should be able to handle these PCI 1000 gigabit lan network
cards just fine

However some PCI slots dont work or are weird... so it might not work after
all... maybe these newer PCI cards have slight changes or something... I
dont know... but it's worth a try. It has two network cards in it already so
hopefully those can be replaced with newer faster ones <- probably =D

A bad bios flash shouldn't be a problem anymore. Check the motherboard's
features, but it should have something to compensate for a screwed up bios
flash. Some boards have dual-bioses and others have a non-modifiable boot
area which lets you flash a new bios even if the existing one is hosed.

Currently I am looking into this motherboard to see if it's the right one
for me

The A-BIT Fatal1ty AN8 SLI

http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/products.php?categories=1&model=246

I read the manual... but nowhere did it mention if it had some kind of fail
safe support for the bios chip.

I dont believe in giga-byte's dual bios bullshit though

Virus knocks out first bios, Virus knocks out second bios... bing, dinners
served.

Anyway that last part about the non modifiable boot area sounds excellent
and cool, I want one.

However flashing is like cd-rw's it will only work a few times after that
it's dead, dead, dead and dead

So flashing scares the shit out of me... I rather not do it at all

Who knows who's been flashing my motherboard/bios already before I got it =D

Though I plan on getting everything as brand new as possible just to prevent
this kind of shitty situations

Existing boards should have plenty of USB ports.

Yeah the fatality manual mentions 3 USB headers.

I think with headers they mean a kind of slot

2 PS/2 ports should be available on your board.

Yup it is on the fatality.

These will probably not be available depending on the motherboard you buy.

Nope not available no the fatality.

Parallel ports also not available... <- forgot about them

A boxed CPU comes with a heatsink/fan and some thermal paste or thermal
tape. You have to install it yourself anyway. An OEM or tray CPU will be
just the CPU itself and nothing more. If you buy a motherboard with it, the
seller might install the CPU in the motherboard, but it depends.

Ok, when I order my stuff I hope the supplier doesnt think I want him to
assemble my computer components etc.

I think/hope I can make a little note like:

"I want all components delivered seperately and in their original packaging
un-opened !!!!" =D

The gigabit ethernet cards are backward-compatible with 10 and 100 megabit
cards. That includes the cable modem too.
Okdokie.


It's possibly for future PCI-Express expansion cards.

Sounds not to stable

Expansion card for future architectures/technologies whoping around in the
case ?

Don't do it. I assume you mean the connectors that connect the front/back
usb/firewire sockets to the motherboard. Be careful with them and don't mix
them up.

Ok I will

Make sure to get a brand name power supply. 500-600W should be fine.
Okdokie.


Pins and voltages don't match. If you mix up the connectors, it's possible
you could cause a short between +12V or +5V and ground through the
motherboard and burn out some part of it. Not good. Be careful with the
USB/firewire connectors. Also make sure that the pins of the connectors
match up with the motherboard pinout.
Okdokie.


They probably mean the power button on the power supply. Some people advise
to leave the power supply plugged in and turn it off when you are doing
things inside the case. That way, your case is grounded and you can get rid
of some of the static electricity by touching the metal parts of the case
once in a while.

I am not sure about this.

I live in appertment... with a kind of plastic like floor or something.

When I go to the supermarkt and when I touched a metal casing to get a
product sometimes I get these big static electricities shocks. YIKES.

Dont know why I am getting so much statical eletricity build up... Maybe
it's from my own plastic like floor or maybe from the bathroom floor mat or
something....
orrrrrrrr it could be from the hallway which has a fabric... like cloth
etc... the rubber from my shoes probably robs over it producing the static
electricity ?

Or maybe it s just normal for human beings to build up static eletricity no
matter what.

The best thing I can do is probably touch the heating device which some
other people recommended.

I always think it's good to keep my hands running under the water of the
sink etc...

Since the water goes down the building into the earth etc...

Doesn't that mean the water stream is grounded ??? and able to get rid of
the static eletricity ???

Power buttons on power supplies have I and O on them. When I is pressed that
means ON. When O is pressed it means OFF.

Ok I have a nice way of remembering this. Donkey-bridge we call it

O is pussy. Pussy says: "nonononono get away from me"

Hmm not too good... that could mean it's on power...

No this one is better:

I is dick. Dick is stiff = on baby =D

Ok I have a better one.

O is big tit.

Most of the time girls dont want people to grab their tits.

O means get off me.

I means I am on baby

Though I wonder if this is really true...

Maybe it depends on how the system started the last time etc...

Maybe both signs can be on or off... oh well.

Since I can remember flipping these kinds of switches many times lol.

And it never worked as I expected lol.

But I will pay some attention to it next time

The one in the back of the power supply, yes. The front power button will
react differently based on the current state of the PC. If you are still in
the BIOS, it will turn it off immediately. If your OS has booted already,
pressing the front power button will initiate whatever shutdown procedures
your OS requires. To shut the computer down immediately, you have to hold
the power button for a few seconds.

Also, some bioses allow you to program the front power button so that it
causes the computer to go into standby mode.

Exactly so a power button with signs I/O doesnt make much sense...

Which could explain the wacky observed behaviour above... but that was for a
free 80486 DX 66 mhz from college's junk yard.

Yes, you can have only SATA drives. Make sure you get a motherboard with
native SATA (or SATA integrated in the chipset instead of an addon chip). It
will simplify the installation of your OS. Most of the newest motherboards
have SATA in the chipset already. Some boards also have addon chips for SATA
or IDE installed in addition to native SATA.

Ok, this is the first time I have heard of this story.

Why will it simplify the installation of the OS ?

I think it probably have something to do with missing SATA drivers in
Windows XP 32 bit Gold Edition ?

I wonder what the situation is with the Fatality motherboard.... ?

I'll have to look into this issue in the general way and for this
motherboard in specific.

Any extra details information or links are welcome

You can usually ignore that message. Most likely, it came from the addon
chip. If you disable the addon chip, the message will go away. Of course if
you connected something to the addon chip like a CDROM drive, then you'll
just have to live with the message.

No idea what this is all about... Me aint away of addon chips...

What's the difference between Integrated SATA and addon chips ?

Do you mean addon chips are something which I as a user could add myself ?
probably not ?

Or do you mean the motherboard manufacturer used some kind of addon chip ???

Aren't all chips on the motherboard addon chips ?

Sounds a bit weird to me

Oh there is your signature again lol =D

Probably manually inserted

Bye,
Skybuck =D

 

[Skybuck Flying]

OK.. Whoa.. Thats quite a system....
lets take a smaller summary look shall we?
AMD64x2 4800+
MB - Undetermined, needs SLI... (Abit Fatal1ty-Sli looks good to me)
4Gb Ram DDR400
2Tbs (500Gbx4) SATA Hds..
CD-RW (Ide)
DVD+/-RW (DL) (SATA)

Well for starters you got a problem in your setup
5 SATA Drives.. only 4 SATA ports... I have YET to see a board with 5
or 6 SATA ports.. Either keep the DVD and lose 1-2 Hds as SATA.. or
just get an IDE DVDburner..

Good thing you noticed this. I didn't notice it was a SATA DVD Drive.

I think I am going to get the fatality sli etc... I also like the idea of
getting a IDE DVD Burner so that it might be used for the older
computer as well in case necessary.

The main reason is ofcourse to free up a sata connector so that it becomes
available for another harddisk

Since harddisk space is most important.

I will rarely use the dvd rewriter and frequently use the harddisks... so
that's much more important =D

And could also come in handy to have 4 harddisks (instead of only 3) in case
I wanna get crazy with raid... later on

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[NoRemorse]

I think your signature didn't work unless it's supposed to be on the
top


Update: at the end of your post is another signature

Blah. Forgot to delete it from the top. The silly thing added it
automatically.

May I suggest you disable your mail program's automatic signature since
it's
clearly not working lol =D
Unless you like to have a top signature as well =D coooool hahahahaha.

I have seen this behaviour in outlook express so I am guessing you have
outlook express =D

Try inserting it manually lol.

I had a whole discussion about this stuff once

It supposed to be dash dash space.

Though outlook makes it dash dash space space

Or maybe that's beside the point and outlook simply inserts it completely
wrongly

Apperently outlook express assumes people want to top post

Anyway back to the topic at hand:



DENIED =D

I don't want any wireless shit. A mouse cable is not much of problem for
me.

Granted if it's too short that s a bitch. And granted I do place my
speaker
into the mouse wire
so the mouse wire doesnt pull the mouse away but still.

Just the idea of having to recharge batteries to make my mouse work lol.

Talk about major stupid downtime lol =D lolololol.

OOOOOOOOOHhhhhhhhh nnnnnnooooooooooooooo

Now I require TWO sets of batteries.

I can see the horror now lol:

OHHHHHHHHHHHHNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO

I forgot to reload the spare batteries OHHHHHHNOOOOOOOOOOO lol.

NONONONONONONO

I am a very very very very very heavy PC user.

And worse I am a programmer TOO.

I won some wireless equipment once and I used it... then I was programming
and everything started to act weird... the keyboard started to stutter and
hang and the mouse started to stutter and hang... during programming and
during games.

That's really bad... Because then I think the program is at fault or the
game is at fault.

Even more annoying another HP wireless keyboard started displaying a
warning
message during the god damn game: A big yellow sign with a battery almost
empty warning.

OH MY GOD so ****ing annoying and furiating. It totally ruined the whole
game experience.

My blood and hart started pumping with RAGE and finally I decided to do
something about it AND KILL OFF THE GOD DAMN APPLICATION that was causing
it
ARRRGGHHHHHHHhhhhhhh so hatefull.

NOOOOONONONOnonononononono.

I have had anything wireless trouble and anger and fury to last a
lifetime.

So I say: "NO to this kind of wireless stuff which could go empty
blablablalbla BAD"

Some mouses even have an eye blinding power hungy laser YIKES =D

I think some people even have problems with these laser mouses since they
work only if the surface has texture... they need to determine how much it
moved etc... so on some surfaces these mouses might not even work bleh.

Uhm. My MX700 uses the same rechargeable batteries that came with it 2 years
ago. I have never seen the mouse stop working because of low batteries (last
few months my average uptime was above 12 hours). All I do is put the thing
in a cradle when I power down my computer. I've ran it down to a battery
warning a few times, but it never stopped working, so it's fine.

I would never touch a non-optical mouse anymore. They work with most
surfaces and I bet you'd have to try really really hard to find a surface
that it won't work on.

Ok, so this is the same PCI that was used like 3 to 5 years ago ?

I still have an old pentium 166 which I would also like to equiped with a
faster network card maybe 100 or maybe even 1000... however the P166 might
not be able to achieve this speed... at least not in windows 98 or so
possibly... but maybe in dos where it has full power

Though the motherboard of the P166 does have PCI slots... but hidden away
in
a weird way so that might not be possible... Maybe there are some ISA
100/1000 gigabit lan network cards ?

My PIII 450 mhz should be able to handle these PCI 1000 gigabit lan
network
cards just fine

However some PCI slots dont work or are weird... so it might not work
after
all... maybe these newer PCI cards have slight changes or something... I
dont know... but it's worth a try. It has two network cards in it already
so
hopefully those can be replaced with newer faster ones <- probably =D


Currently I am looking into this motherboard to see if it's the right one
for me

The A-BIT Fatal1ty AN8 SLI

http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/products.php?categories=1&model=246

I read the manual... but nowhere did it mention if it had some kind of
fail
safe support for the bios chip.

I dont believe in giga-byte's dual bios bullshit though

It works fine if you set it right.

Virus knocks out first bios, Virus knocks out second bios... bing, dinners
served.

That's very rare. A virus would have to be written to attack the
motherboards of a specific manufacturer for this to work. I seriously doubt
there's a standardized way to access the bios flash chip.

Anyway that last part about the non modifiable boot area sounds excellent
and cool, I want one.

However flashing is like cd-rw's it will only work a few times after
that
it's dead, dead, dead and dead

Flash memory will work several thousand times. If you have to flash the bios
that often, something ain't right. Relax.

So flashing scares the shit out of me... I rather not do it at all

Who knows who's been flashing my motherboard/bios already before I got it
=D

For someone to even get halfway to the write times limit of flash memory
would take a long time. It's not likely.

Though I plan on getting everything as brand new as possible just to
prevent
this kind of shitty situations

Buy it from a reputable vendor and you won't have problems.

Yeah the fatality manual mentions 3 USB headers.

I think with headers they mean a kind of slot


Yup it is on the fatality.


Nope not available no the fatality.

Parallel ports also not available... <- forgot about them


Ok, when I order my stuff I hope the supplier doesnt think I want him to
assemble my computer components etc.

I think/hope I can make a little note like:

"I want all components delivered seperately and in their original
packaging
un-opened !!!!" =D


Sounds not to stable

Expansion card for future architectures/technologies whoping around in the
case ?

It shouldn't be a problem if you screw the card to the case like the other
cards.

Ok I will


I am not sure about this.

I live in appertment... with a kind of plastic like floor or something.

When I go to the supermarkt and when I touched a metal casing to get a
product sometimes I get these big static electricities shocks. YIKES.

Dont know why I am getting so much statical eletricity build up... Maybe
it's from my own plastic like floor or maybe from the bathroom floor mat
or
something....
orrrrrrrr it could be from the hallway which has a fabric... like cloth
etc... the rubber from my shoes probably robs over it producing the static
electricity ?

Or maybe it s just normal for human beings to build up static eletricity
no
matter what.

The best thing I can do is probably touch the heating device which some
other people recommended.

I always think it's good to keep my hands running under the water of the
sink etc...

Since the water goes down the building into the earth etc...

Doesn't that mean the water stream is grounded ??? and able to get rid of
the static eletricity ???

Heh. I build my computers usually on carpet flooring (totally against the
common advice), never had a problem (probably just lucky, but oh well). I
almost never touch any of the circuit boards. Whenever handling cards or
motherboards, I just grab them by the corners or by one of the plastic
slots.

Ok I have a nice way of remembering this. Donkey-bridge we call it

O is pussy. Pussy says: "nonononono get away from me"

Hmm not too good... that could mean it's on power...

No this one is better:

I is dick. Dick is stiff = on baby =D

Ok I have a better one.

O is big tit.

Most of the time girls dont want people to grab their tits.

O means get off me.

I means I am on baby

Though I wonder if this is really true...

Maybe it depends on how the system started the last time etc...

Maybe both signs can be on or off... oh well.

Since I can remember flipping these kinds of switches many times lol.

And it never worked as I expected lol.

But I will pay some attention to it next time

Uhm. How about I = 1 = ON and O = 0 = OFF. For a programmer, a boolean state
shouldn't be too bad.

Exactly so a power button with signs I/O doesnt make much sense...

The front power button is just a momentary switch. It doesn't have a state.
The electronics on the motherboard interpret the presses and take
appropriate actions.

Which could explain the wacky observed behaviour above... but that was for
a
free 80486 DX 66 mhz from college's junk yard.


Ok, this is the first time I have heard of this story.

Why will it simplify the installation of the OS ?

I think it probably have something to do with missing SATA drivers in
Windows XP 32 bit Gold Edition ?

Windows will detect drives connected to the native chipset IDE or SATA ports
by itself. Drives connected to the addon controllers (also known as onboard
controllers) sometimes require pressing F6 during WinXP setup. Pressing F6
allows you to install drivers for whatever RAID, IDE, or SATA controllers
you are using.

I wonder what the situation is with the Fatality motherboard.... ?

I'll have to look into this issue in the general way and for this
motherboard in specific.

Any extra details information or links are welcome


No idea what this is all about... Me aint away of addon chips...

"Me aint away of addon chips"??? What the hell does that mean?

What's the difference between Integrated SATA and addon chips ?

The addon chips (sometimes called onboard) are hard wired into the PCI bus.
Thus, they are limited to 133MB/sec. Often, you have to press F6 during
WinXP setup to recognize drivers connected to those.

Do you mean addon chips are something which I as a user could add myself ?
probably not ?

Yeah you can add PCI cards to control sata or ide drives.

Or do you mean the motherboard manufacturer used some kind of addon chip
???

I sort of made up "addon chips", they are usually called onboard controllers
or something like that. I only meant the controllers connected to the PCI
bus as "addon chips"

Aren't all chips on the motherboard addon chips ?

Sounds a bit weird to me


Oh there is your signature again lol =D

Probably manually inserted

Oh this reminds me. Somewhere in your post you mentioned raid controllers on
your motherboard. The raid controllers that come with motherboards can
usually be used as standard IDE controllers. That gives you extra ports for
various devices if you are not using RAID.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

OK.. Whoa.. Thats quite a system....
lets take a smaller summary look shall we?
AMD64x2 4800+
MB - Undetermined, needs SLI... (Abit Fatal1ty-Sli looks good to me)
4Gb Ram DDR400
2Tbs (500Gbx4) SATA Hds..
CD-RW (Ide)
DVD+/-RW (DL) (SATA)

Well for starters you got a problem in your setup
5 SATA Drives.. only 4 SATA ports... I have YET to see a board with 5
or 6 SATA ports.. Either keep the DVD and lose 1-2 Hds as SATA.. or
just get an IDE DVDburner..

It seems this IDE DVD Rewriter can also read/write CD's etc...

So it's not even necessary to have a special CD Rewriter ?

Also I like this IDE version better, it's faster at re-writing and it's
cheaper

DVD Rewriter: Plextor PX-740A 16 x, 4 x, 16 x, White, Retail

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Mercury]

stop thinking the worst of people! if a vendor opens a box, they may do so
to get a serial number to ensure you get a warrantee.
if youcan get 1 vendor tosupply the mobo,cpu, cooler & ram and gaurantee the
mobo, cpu, and ram work together. IE get them to check the bios version if
it mat need it and upgrade it for you so you don't - consequence is open
mobo box & possibly CPU...

It is the *warantee* the vendor *will* honour that is important - not if the
box has been opened. Pick the vendor based on reputation. most vendors are
far too busy to open boxes without need.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

stop thinking the worst of people! if a vendor opens a box, they may do so
to get a serial number to ensure you get a warrantee.

To may also replace it with a damaged one. That's probably how I ended up
with my current bad motherboard

Though it was from a local store.

There is absolutely no reason to trust anyone or in this case the supplier.

Either he delivers the goods intact or he doesn't

if youcan get 1 vendor tosupply the mobo,cpu, cooler & ram and gaurantee the
mobo, cpu, and ram work together. IE get them to check the bios version if
it mat need it and upgrade it for you so you don't - consequence is open
mobo box & possibly CPU...

A very good reason to make sure the latest motherboards that leave the
manufacturer have a recent bios before they are packaged.

It is the *warantee* the vendor *will* honour that is important - not if the
box has been opened. Pick the vendor based on reputation. most vendors are
far too busy to open boxes without need.

I rather not go through that painfull process of "RMA"

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[mihai cartoaje]

I am presently filling a RMA to ATI because the Rage 2 is not
vga-compatible. For example, Commander Keen does not display like on
other cards.

mihai