MVP for System Builders?

[Guest]

Why is it that the product groups get to have all of the fun? I see MVPs all
the time for XP and for Server and for IIS and for SQL, but where are the
MVPs for System Builders? They tell me there cannot be an MVP group for a
"Program", only for products because there would not be enough to offer
either side in the relationship.

Dang it...I say that is not true. I can think of many ways in which a n MVP
program could be beneficial to both Microsoft and to the System Builders
involved.

Maybe we should just create a group called System Builder MVPs and prove
that we are a "worthy" group...

Before I give my ideas as to what would be involved in this give-and-take
relationship, what are your thoughts? If you were an MVP, what would you
expect to get from Microsoft and what should you be expected to do in turn?

(Note - There are no dumb ideas here, only dumb people...wait, that doesn't
sound right...<big grin>)

--
Steve Winfield
National SB Tech Manager (aka BOB)
US Partner Group, Microsoft

***E-mail: (e-mail address removed)***
*** Web: oem.microsoft.com/BOB***

 

[Jim Macklin]

Sounds like a good idea to me, who is going to host it and
pay the bills?
If a "MVP" says that such and such mobo is crap, will there
be law suits?

What is the difference between a system builder and a system
integrator?

Is an all Intel system made by Intel better than a Intel
chipset on a non-Intel mobo?

Does the color of the case make a difference? Are some
cases really better than others? Power supplies need to be
big enough and well-regulated, but which is "best."


--
Merry Christmas
Have a Safe and Happy New Year
Live Long and Prosper
Jim Macklin
message
| Why is it that the product groups get to have all of the
fun? I see MVPs all
| the time for XP and for Server and for IIS and for SQL,
but where are the
| MVPs for System Builders? They tell me there cannot be an
MVP group for a
| "Program", only for products because there would not be
enough to offer
| either side in the relationship.
|
| Dang it...I say that is not true. I can think of many
ways in which a n MVP
| program could be beneficial to both Microsoft and to the
System Builders
| involved.
|
| Maybe we should just create a group called System Builder
MVPs and prove
| that we are a "worthy" group...
|
| Before I give my ideas as to what would be involved in
this give-and-take
| relationship, what are your thoughts? If you were an MVP,
what would you
| expect to get from Microsoft and what should you be
expected to do in turn?
|
| (Note - There are no dumb ideas here, only dumb
people...wait, that doesn't
| sound right...<big grin>)
|
| --
| Steve Winfield
| National SB Tech Manager (aka BOB)
| US Partner Group, Microsoft
|
| ***E-mail: (e-mail address removed)***
| *** Web: oem.microsoft.com/BOB***

 

[JeezLouize]

The real system builder MVPs linger in the Asus, or the Gigabyte, or the
Abit (you get the idea) motherboard newsgroups. They probably know
that mobo better than 99% (just a SWAG) of the MS MVPs.

It's been my experience that there are far to few Microsoft beta testers with
system building experience...that was obvious to me when SP2 come out.

Since each new system requires an OS, I'd think M$ would bend
over backwards to help the builder...yeah, I know, wishful thinking.

 

[Guest]

Great points Jim...lets take take take a look at them...

1. This program would start out being sponsored by the US System Builder
Tech Team (aka BOB), which is part of the US System Builder Team. As the
program grows, it would most likely fall under the either the WW System
Builder program or the offical MSFT MVP program.
2. Hopefully, if there is an issue with a mobo, we would be able to
objectively discuss the issue without having to say that something just plain
stinks...
3. A System Builder is more involved with the actual building of boxes
rather than the actual implementation of the technology. Now, I am not
saying that the two are mutually exclusive. For our purposes, if you build
computers as part of your System Integration business, then you are a System
Builder as well.
4. Not necessarily.
5. I like royal blue cases with pictures of my wife and kids on the side
(as long as the pictures don't cover up the COA...<big grin>.
6. I don't think we will really get into what is the "best", but more of
what works, what doesn't, and what work-arounds exist.

If you are interested in helping out with this, please send me an e-mail at
(e-mail address removed).

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Guest]

Hey JeezLouize,

As a quick note to begin, we are working on getting involved with the MSFT
and 3rd party hardware newgroups as well; this is just a beginning.

Part of the reason my team exists and part of the reason we are looking to
start an MVP program, is to give the voice of the System Builders to the
internal product groups at Microsoft. I agree that in the past we may not
have heard your needs and wants, but things are changing; my team is a
perfect example of Microsoft's rededication to the System Builder. Take a
look at http://oem.microsoft.com/BOB to learn more about what we are doing.

If you would like to get involved, please e-mail me at (e-mail address removed).

See ya,
Steve

 

[Kelly]

Steve,

I really don't think this is the place for such a post. Shouldn't you have
tried the MVP private discussion boards?

--
Happy Holidays,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

 

[Guest]

That's the problem, I am looking to get input from System Builders in what
they would want to see in their own MVP program and their own on-line
community. The private discussion boards are only for existing MVPs, and I
am not trying to poach the product group MVPs.

We have tried to get responses on this using chats, webcasts, e-mail, and
newletters, with little success. Doing it this way as garned much more
communication, suggestions, and concerns than I ever would have imagined. It
is great to see a community in action.

That being said, getting on to the MVP site is also a great idea. Once
everyone gets back on campus in a couple weeks, I will ty to get access to
y'all's newsgroups and engage in discussion there as well.

Thanks for the input.

See ya,
Steve

 

[Kelly]

I can respect that, but this does not belong in XP General. This is a
newsgroup!

That's the problem, I am looking to get input from System Builders in what
they would want to see in their own MVP program and their own on-line
community.

System Builders with their "own" MVP's, MVP program and community???

We have tried to get responses on this using chats, webcasts, e-mail, and
newletters, with little success.

The avenues chosen were wrong, just as this group? Again, this still has
nothing to do with the XP Gen Newsgroup and belongs within the proper arena.

That being said, getting on to the MVP site is also a great idea. Once
everyone gets back on campus in a couple weeks, I will ty to get access to
y'all's newsgroups and engage in discussion there as well.

1. You are representing MS via your tag, were you cleared of making this
post?
2. As per my comment, that should have been the first place you started
with.
3. TRY to get access?

--
Happy Holidays,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

 

[Jim Macklin]

There are two general types of System Builders, the
companies that build for the retail market and the hobbyist
who builds one to a few dozen computers. Will this be aimed
at one or both types of builders?


--
Merry Christmas
Have a Safe and Happy New Year
Live Long and Prosper
Jim Macklin
message
| Hey JeezLouize,
|
| As a quick note to begin, we are working on getting
involved with the MSFT
| and 3rd party hardware newgroups as well; this is just a
beginning.
|
| Part of the reason my team exists and part of the reason
we are looking to
| start an MVP program, is to give the voice of the System
Builders to the
| internal product groups at Microsoft. I agree that in the
past we may not
| have heard your needs and wants, but things are changing;
my team is a
| perfect example of Microsoft's rededication to the System
Builder. Take a
| look at http://oem.microsoft.com/BOB to learn more about
what we are doing.
|
| If you would like to get involved, please e-mail me at
(e-mail address removed).
|
| See ya,
| Steve
|
| "JeezLouize" wrote:
|
| > The real system builder MVPs linger in the Asus, or the
Gigabyte, or the
| > Abit (you get the idea) motherboard newsgroups. They
probably know
| > that mobo better than 99% (just a SWAG) of the MS MVPs.
| >
| > It's been my experience that there are far to few
Microsoft beta testers with
| > system building experience...that was obvious to me when
SP2 come out.
| >
| > Since each new system requires an OS, I'd think M$ would
bend
| > over backwards to help the builder...yeah, I know,
wishful thinking.
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > "Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
wrote in message
| > | > > Sounds like a good idea to me, who is going to host it
and
| > > pay the bills?
| > > If a "MVP" says that such and such mobo is crap, will
there
| > > be law suits?
| > >
| > > What is the difference between a system builder and a
system
| > > integrator?
| > >
| > > Is an all Intel system made by Intel better than a
Intel
| > > chipset on a non-Intel mobo?
| > >
| > > Does the color of the case make a difference? Are
some
| > > cases really better than others? Power supplies need
to be
| > > big enough and well-regulated, but which is "best."
| > >
| > >
| > > --
| > > Merry Christmas
| > > Have a Safe and Happy New Year
| > > Live Long and Prosper
| > > Jim Macklin
in
| > > message
| > >
| > > | Why is it that the product groups get to have all of
the
| > > fun? I see MVPs all
| > > | the time for XP and for Server and for IIS and for
SQL,
| > > but where are the
| > > | MVPs for System Builders? They tell me there cannot
be an
| > > MVP group for a
| > > | "Program", only for products because there would not
be
| > > enough to offer
| > > | either side in the relationship.
| > > |
| > > | Dang it...I say that is not true. I can think of
many
| > > ways in which a n MVP
| > > | program could be beneficial to both Microsoft and to
the
| > > System Builders
| > > | involved.
| > > |
| > > | Maybe we should just create a group called System
Builder
| > > MVPs and prove
| > > | that we are a "worthy" group...
| > > |
| > > | Before I give my ideas as to what would be involved
in
| > > this give-and-take
| > > | relationship, what are your thoughts? If you were
an MVP,
| > > what would you
| > > | expect to get from Microsoft and what should you be
| > > expected to do in turn?
| > > |
| > > | (Note - There are no dumb ideas here, only dumb
| > > people...wait, that doesn't
| > > | sound right...<big grin>)
| > > |
| > > | --
| > > | Steve Winfield
| > > | National SB Tech Manager (aka BOB)
| > > | US Partner Group, Microsoft
| > > |
| > > | ***E-mail: (e-mail address removed)***
| > > | *** Web: oem.microsoft.com/BOB***
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
| >

 

[Jim Macklin]

Thanks, I've only built one computer so far, but I spent
several months picking out the components. A self-taught
geek. I have the URL and will be checking on what goes on,
maybe I can begin a business and make a buck.

http://oem.microsoft.com/BOB


--
Merry Christmas
Have a Safe and Happy New Year
Live Long and Prosper
Jim Macklin
message
| Great points Jim...lets take take take a look at them...
|
| 1. This program would start out being sponsored by the US
System Builder
| Tech Team (aka BOB), which is part of the US System
Builder Team. As the
| program grows, it would most likely fall under the either
the WW System
| Builder program or the offical MSFT MVP program.
| 2. Hopefully, if there is an issue with a mobo, we would
be able to
| objectively discuss the issue without having to say that
something just plain
| stinks...
| 3. A System Builder is more involved with the actual
building of boxes
| rather than the actual implementation of the technology.
Now, I am not
| saying that the two are mutually exclusive. For our
purposes, if you build
| computers as part of your System Integration business,
then you are a System
| Builder as well.
| 4. Not necessarily.
| 5. I like royal blue cases with pictures of my wife and
kids on the side
| (as long as the pictures don't cover up the COA...<big
grin>.
| 6. I don't think we will really get into what is the
"best", but more of
| what works, what doesn't, and what work-arounds exist.
|
| If you are interested in helping out with this, please
send me an e-mail at
| (e-mail address removed).
|
| Thanks,
| Steve
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote:
|
| > Sounds like a good idea to me, who is going to host it
and
| > pay the bills?
| > If a "MVP" says that such and such mobo is crap, will
there
| > be law suits?
| >
| > What is the difference between a system builder and a
system
| > integrator?
| >
| > Is an all Intel system made by Intel better than a Intel
| > chipset on a non-Intel mobo?
| >
| > Does the color of the case make a difference? Are some
| > cases really better than others? Power supplies need to
be
| > big enough and well-regulated, but which is "best."
| >
| >
| > --
| > Merry Christmas
| > Have a Safe and Happy New Year
| > Live Long and Prosper
| > Jim Macklin
| > message
| >
| > | Why is it that the product groups get to have all of
the
| > fun? I see MVPs all
| > | the time for XP and for Server and for IIS and for
SQL,
| > but where are the
| > | MVPs for System Builders? They tell me there cannot
be an
| > MVP group for a
| > | "Program", only for products because there would not
be
| > enough to offer
| > | either side in the relationship.
| > |
| > | Dang it...I say that is not true. I can think of many
| > ways in which a n MVP
| > | program could be beneficial to both Microsoft and to
the
| > System Builders
| > | involved.
| > |
| > | Maybe we should just create a group called System
Builder
| > MVPs and prove
| > | that we are a "worthy" group...
| > |
| > | Before I give my ideas as to what would be involved in
| > this give-and-take
| > | relationship, what are your thoughts? If you were an
MVP,
| > what would you
| > | expect to get from Microsoft and what should you be
| > expected to do in turn?
| > |
| > | (Note - There are no dumb ideas here, only dumb
| > people...wait, that doesn't
| > | sound right...<big grin>)
| > |
| > | --
| > | Steve Winfield
| > | National SB Tech Manager (aka BOB)
| > | US Partner Group, Microsoft
| > |
| > | ***E-mail: (e-mail address removed)***
| > | *** Web: oem.microsoft.com/BOB***
| >
| >
| >

 

[Jim Macklin]

Then I would have missed out. Free speech. Is the FQ busy
New Years Eve?


--
Merry Christmas
Have a Safe and Happy New Year
Live Long and Prosper
Jim Macklin


| Steve,
|
| I really don't think this is the place for such a post.
Shouldn't you have
| tried the MVP private discussion boards?
|
| --
| Happy Holidays,
| Kelly (MS-MVP)
|
| Troubleshooting Windows XP
| http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com
|
|
message
| | > Why is it that the product groups get to have all of the
fun? I see MVPs
| > all
| > the time for XP and for Server and for IIS and for SQL,
but where are the
| > MVPs for System Builders? They tell me there cannot be
an MVP group for a
| > "Program", only for products because there would not be
enough to offer
| > either side in the relationship.
| >
| > Dang it...I say that is not true. I can think of many
ways in which a n
| > MVP
| > program could be beneficial to both Microsoft and to the
System Builders
| > involved.
| >
| > Maybe we should just create a group called System
Builder MVPs and prove
| > that we are a "worthy" group...
| >
| > Before I give my ideas as to what would be involved in
this give-and-take
| > relationship, what are your thoughts? If you were an
MVP, what would you
| > expect to get from Microsoft and what should you be
expected to do in
| > turn?
| >
| > (Note - There are no dumb ideas here, only dumb
people...wait, that
| > doesn't
| > sound right...<big grin>)
| >
| > --
| > Steve Winfield
| > National SB Tech Manager (aka BOB)
| > US Partner Group, Microsoft
| >
| > ***E-mail: (e-mail address removed)***
| > *** Web: oem.microsoft.com/BOB***
|
|

 

[Alex Nichol]

That's the problem, I am looking to get input from System Builders in what
they would want to see in their own MVP program and their own on-line
community. The private discussion boards are only for existing MVPs, and I
am not trying to poach the product group MVPs.

You are starting from the wrong end. You need first to get a forum - eg
newsgroup - set up under Microsoft auspices for System Builders to
discuss matters. If that attracts enough people dedicated to helping
others in the forum, then they can be nominated to the MVP program as
potential MVPs

 

[Guest]

I agree completely with the need for getting a forum set up (which we have
under COMMUNITY -> NEWGROUPS -> OTHER TOPICS), however if no one knows it
exists or brings value, then no one will go there.

By coming out to the discussion groups where the System Builders are
participating, it was my hope to build more excitement about not only the new
System Builder discussion group on TechNet, but to also get people excited
about all the new things coming down the line for System Builders from
Microsoft. In this it has been successful.

Change is never easy, and neither is launching to concepts and ideas. This
exercise has been no exception...

 

[Guest]

We would be working with companies...not the hobbyists.

There are two general types of System Builders, the
companies that build for the retail market and the hobbyist
who builds one to a few dozen computers. Will this be aimed
at one or both types of builders?


--
Merry Christmas
Have a Safe and Happy New Year
Live Long and Prosper
Jim Macklin
message
| Hey JeezLouize,
|
| As a quick note to begin, we are working on getting
involved with the MSFT
| and 3rd party hardware newgroups as well; this is just a
beginning.
|
| Part of the reason my team exists and part of the reason
we are looking to
| start an MVP program, is to give the voice of the System
Builders to the
| internal product groups at Microsoft. I agree that in the
past we may not
| have heard your needs and wants, but things are changing;
my team is a
| perfect example of Microsoft's rededication to the System
Builder. Take a
| look at http://oem.microsoft.com/BOB to learn more about
what we are doing.
|
| If you would like to get involved, please e-mail me at
(e-mail address removed).
|
| See ya,
| Steve
|
| "JeezLouize" wrote:
|
| > The real system builder MVPs linger in the Asus, or the
Gigabyte, or the
| > Abit (you get the idea) motherboard newsgroups. They
probably know
| > that mobo better than 99% (just a SWAG) of the MS MVPs.
| >
| > It's been my experience that there are far to few
Microsoft beta testers with
| > system building experience...that was obvious to me when
SP2 come out.
| >
| > Since each new system requires an OS, I'd think M$ would
bend
| > over backwards to help the builder...yeah, I know,
wishful thinking.
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > "Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
wrote in message
| > | > > Sounds like a good idea to me, who is going to host it
and
| > > pay the bills?
| > > If a "MVP" says that such and such mobo is crap, will
there
| > > be law suits?
| > >
| > > What is the difference between a system builder and a
system
| > > integrator?
| > >
| > > Is an all Intel system made by Intel better than a
Intel
| > > chipset on a non-Intel mobo?
| > >
| > > Does the color of the case make a difference? Are
some
| > > cases really better than others? Power supplies need
to be
| > > big enough and well-regulated, but which is "best."
| > >
| > >
| > > --
| > > Merry Christmas
| > > Have a Safe and Happy New Year
| > > Live Long and Prosper
| > > Jim Macklin
in
| > > message
| > >
| > > | Why is it that the product groups get to have all of
the
| > > fun? I see MVPs all
| > > | the time for XP and for Server and for IIS and for
SQL,
| > > but where are the
| > > | MVPs for System Builders? They tell me there cannot
be an
| > > MVP group for a
| > > | "Program", only for products because there would not
be
| > > enough to offer
| > > | either side in the relationship.
| > > |
| > > | Dang it...I say that is not true. I can think of
many
| > > ways in which a n MVP
| > > | program could be beneficial to both Microsoft and to
the
| > > System Builders
| > > | involved.
| > > |
| > > | Maybe we should just create a group called System
Builder
| > > MVPs and prove
| > > | that we are a "worthy" group...
| > > |
| > > | Before I give my ideas as to what would be involved
in
| > > this give-and-take
| > > | relationship, what are your thoughts? If you were
an MVP,
| > > what would you
| > > | expect to get from Microsoft and what should you be
| > > expected to do in turn?
| > > |
| > > | (Note - There are no dumb ideas here, only dumb
| > > people...wait, that doesn't
| > > | sound right...<big grin>)
| > > |
| > > | --
| > > | Steve Winfield
| > > | National SB Tech Manager (aka BOB)
| > > | US Partner Group, Microsoft
| > > |
| > > | ***E-mail: (e-mail address removed)***
| > > | *** Web: oem.microsoft.com/BOB***
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
| >

 

[Guest]

Hey Kelly,

First off, I can put MSFT at the end of my name since I am the National
System Builder Technology Manager for Microsoft (which is in my sig line on
the original post). Building an on-line community for System Builders is
what the execs (as high up as Ballmer) have tasked my organization with
doing; so here I am.

You keep bringing up that this is not a proper forum for discussions such as
this, but I am confused as to why you feel so strongly about it. This is a
discussion group and we are having a discussion. The MVP site you mentioned
is not viable because it is a restricted area only for current MVPs. That
would cut-out virtually the entire community I am trying to reach.

You say that XP General is not proper, but this is one of the places where
System Builder's live on-line. How else would you propose I broadly reach
the tens of thousands System Builders that do not frequent oem.microsoft.com?
I would seriously like to know so my team can go there as well and get
thoughts and feelings and generate interest in our ideas and content.

We are all in this together, so I gladly welcome your comments, though we
may just have to agree to disagree on this concept...

Feel free to contact my team directly at (e-mail address removed) with any
other suggestions or ideas.

Have a happy holiday,
Steve

 

[Michael Stevens]

Hey Kelly,

First off, I can put MSFT at the end of my name since I am the
National System Builder Technology Manager for Microsoft (which is in
my sig line on the original post). Building an on-line community for
System Builders is what the execs (as high up as Ballmer) have tasked
my organization with doing; so here I am.

You keep bringing up that this is not a proper forum for discussions
such as this, but I am confused as to why you feel so strongly about
it. This is a discussion group and we are having a discussion. The
MVP site you mentioned is not viable because it is a restricted area
only for current MVPs. That would cut-out virtually the entire
community I am trying to reach.

You say that XP General is not proper, but this is one of the places
where System Builder's live on-line. How else would you propose I
broadly reach the tens of thousands System Builders that do not
frequent oem.microsoft.com? I would seriously like to know so my team
can go there as well and get thoughts and feelings and generate
interest in our ideas and content.

We are all in this together, so I gladly welcome your comments,
though we may just have to agree to disagree on this concept...

Feel free to contact my team directly at (e-mail address removed) with
any other suggestions or ideas.

Have a happy holiday,
Steve

I think we need a do over..... Perhaps a System Builder MVP program is
not the direction you need, but I understand your mission to enhance the
systembuilders online support database.
Your problem was breaking the newsgroup protocol by basically spamming the
newsgroups with off topic posts. The only posts to these peer support
newsgroups made giving information that is not requested; is when it is
important information pertaining to XP.

--
Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm

 

[Guest]

Understood and my apologies; I just re-read the Rules of Conduct and realize
I was borderline in my post. While not being necessarily relevant to the
topic, I felt it was very relevant to the audience (and have gotten tons of
positive e-mails and comments).

Also, I really thought this was a "discussion group" in addition to being a
support newsgroup. Since apparently it is not, where do you go to actually
discuss issues relevant to being a Microsoft partner?

Again, I apologize if any of you feel I have spammed...my intent was good
though...

 

[JeezLouize]

Didn't Bill tell you people not to wash dirty laundry in public?

 

[cquirke (MVP Win9x)]

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:25:03 -0800, Steve Winfield [MSFT]

Understood and my apologies; I just re-read the Rules of Conduct and realize
I was borderline in my post. While not being necessarily relevant to the
topic, I felt it was very relevant to the audience (and have gotten tons of
positive e-mails and comments).

Here's another one, though I never saw your original post...

Also, I really thought this was a "discussion group" in addition to being a
support newsgroup. Since apparently it is not, where do you go to actually
discuss issues relevant to being a Microsoft partner?

Oh, it's a discussion group alright, but about whatever the newsgroup
name says it's about. In this case, anything to do with Windows XP.

System builders may be that, but microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
may be more on-target.

"Michael Stevens" wrote:

Ah, the original post's snipped by now. Subject line caught my eye.

Was this a post sent to a number of newsgroups, so that all replies
show up in all groups? That's not as bad as making the same post as a
separate post in multiple groups, but it's still bad.

Hmm, yes. But don't forget, these are discussion groups, not just
help-me-with-my-problem. Discussion can avoid tomorrow's posts...
imagine if we'd been able to beat auto-running macros in data files to
death before that left beta, how much nicer that period of malware
history would have been. Or if we'd killed sone of IE4's excesses
that we are still trying to stamp out with XP SP2

As a system builder and freelance tech myself, I think MS
under-utelises us as a resource. It's something of a missed
opportunity, when it comes to patching in particular. So I'd have
likely been interested in what you may have been on about.

 

[Kelly]

Thanks, Michael and Alex. Good luck, Steve!

--
Happy Holidays,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com