Multiple XP Start-Up Problems - Looking for Help with Priorities

[Jeff]

Hi,

I had posted a message several days ago about problems I was having with XP
on a desktop system after the installation of Acronis TrueImage. (I will
update that thread to reflect the events that followed after my last post.)

This is a new problem related to XP not starting on a Gateway Solo 9550
laptop. The laptop is old; but, it was a solid machine in its day, so I am
not ready to kick it to the curb just yet. I would really like to work my way
through the issues I am having if possible. I know the problems that I will
list may not be related; but, hopefully they will point to the real problem.
I'll try to be brief and then answer any questions you may have in more
detail.

1. Presently, when I try to start Windows XP SP3 normally, the boot process
takes me to the Windows XP splash screen where the scroll bar continues to
scroll, even after the drive access light goes dark. The only way I can get
out of this condition is to do a hard reset.

2. The computer has a modular CD player/recorder. With the CD drive
installed, when I start up the computer, with a bootable CD in the drive, I
am not given the option normally to boot from the CD drive. The CD drive is
the first device in the BIOS boot options. I have tried pressing F12 at
start-up as well. About one time in every 20 restarts I see the message
telling me I can hit any key to boot from the CD drive. The CD drive does
read and write without problem when Windows is running.

3. Windows XP will start and run in Safe Mode.

4. I have disabled all non-Microsoft services from within Msconfig, as well
as all startup items. I even selected General/Diagnostic Start-Up. None of
these modes would allow me to boot into Windows normally.

I ran Spinrite on the hard drive two days ago to correct some bad black
errors that were indicated in the event viewer. After Spinrite ran and
corrected the problems, I was able to start XP normally without problems.
However, that only lasted for a day. (No new programs or other system changes
have been made since that time.)

I am stumped. I guess I don't really understand why Windows will start in
Safe Mode; but, not normally when all services (other than those by MS) and
start-up items have been taken out of the equation.

The thing that really puzzles me the most is the CD drive and the fact that
it won't recognize any type of start-up disk (at least a majority of the
time.)

Any thoughts on how I can troubleshoot this problem, or any other sites that
might be able to help troubleshoot these problems will be appreciated.

Thanks

Jeff

 

[JS]

Check your event logs using Event Viewer
and Device Manager.

Sounds like you could have one or more of the following:
1) Bad device driver
2) Failing hardware (Sound Card, Network, Etc.)
3) Failing hard drive.

 

[Daave]

What is "a modular CD player/recorder"?

Which CDs have you tried to boot from? It sounds like a problem with the
CD itself or the CD drive.

If you haven't done so already, save all your data! This includes
e-mails and browser favorites. I recommend copying the data to an
external hard drive. If necessary, boot off a live Linux distro like
Knoppix or Ubuntu (hopefully you will be able to do this!).

When you press F12 "at startup," exactly how early do you do this?

Is your PC free of malware? What anti-malware programs do you use and
are they up-to-date?

You mention the progress bar. Does it ever freeze? Or does it just
scroll in an unending cycle?

If you suspect a hard drive problem, in addition to Spinrite, I would
use the utility provided by the manufacturer.

 

[Daave]

What is "a modular CD player/recorder"?

Which CDs have you tried to boot from? It sounds like a problem with the
CD itself or the CD drive.

If you haven't done so already, save all your data! This includes
e-mails and browser favorites. I recommend copying the data to an
external hard drive. If necessary, boot off a live Linux distro like
Knoppix or Ubuntu (hopefully you will be able to do this!).

When you press F12 "at startup," exactly how early do you do this?

Is your PC free of malware? What anti-malware programs do you use and
are they up-to-date?

You mention the progress bar. Does it ever freeze? Or does it just
scroll in an unending cycle?

If you suspect a hard drive problem, in addition to Spinrite, I would
use the utility provided by the manufacturer.

 

[Jeff]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your input.

My reference to a modular CD drive is one which can be plugged into the
Gateway notebook computer chassis. It can be removed and replaced with a
different peripheral.

Unless I am missing something, there is no real logical pattern to what I am
seeing.

Concerning events in the Event Viewer and Device Manager, when booting into
Safe Mode, nothing will display.

Regarding the timing of when I press F12, I generally press it a half dozen
times as I see text on the screen indicating that the system is starting.
During the boot process, I hear the CD drive spin; but, it doesn't appear
that the CD is taking priority over the HDD.

This evening, for example, I have rebooted the system approximately 15
times. Twice during that time I was able to boot from the CD. Unless I did
something wrong (which I'm pretty certain that I didn't), when I was prompted
for the disk ID when entering the repair console, nothing happened. I ended
up back at the drive prompt. I attempted to reboot from the CD approximately
8 more times; but, I was not able to get the start-up CD to start again.

Regarding the splash screen status bar... the status bar keeps revolving in
spite of the fact that no hard drive activity is going on. I have left it
running for approximately 45 minutes just to make nothing is happening.

There are a few things going on that really seem random, or at least not
interrelated. The CD drive works great from within Windows, I just can't boot
from it. Not being able to boot into Windows normally is troubling...
espcially in light of the fact I was able to do it several times yesterday,
and yet today I can't .... with no other changes having been made.

Any other thoughts would be appreciated. I am about ready to trash the
hardware as I have spent too much time trying to diagnose the problems. I
really hate to do that; but, I don't have many options other than paying to
have it repaired. I have backups of all the data, so that isn't an issue. My
only heartburn is with having to reload all of the programs again.

Thanks again for your help.

Jeff

 

[Daave]

If you configured your PC to boot off the CD and if only two boots out
of fifteen are successful, you have hardware problems. Could be the CD
drive is almost gone. Maybe the cable connection isn't good. Maybe
there's something wrong with the cable. Or the motherboard.

Spending money to get this laptop repaired isn't wise, I agree. If the
fix isn't easy (new CD drive or cable), it's time to get a new PC, I'm
afraid.

 

[Jeff]

Hi Daave,

I have tried removing and reseating the CD drive from the chassis several
times, with no success. The connection between the receiver plug for the CD
device and the motherboard is internal to the notebook, I'm not sure of the
cabling.

For the last few years the computer seems to run hotter than I remember...
the fan runs quite often.

I paid almost $4,000 in 2002, so it's a little hard for me to just trash it;
but, that may be the best option. With Gateway out of business for this model
(as well as a high end workstation I have), getting parts and service is kind
of hit or miss.

Thanks again for your replies.

Jeff

 

[Daave]

If the CD drive itself is still good, my guess is that it's the cabling
or the motherboard. And that just addresses the difficulty you have
booting off a CD. Then again, you could try another CD drive...

Although you paid several thousand dollars for this laptop seven years
ago, it is worth only a couple hundred dollars now. I wouldn't waste any
money paying somebody to try to repair it.

YW and good luck.

 

[Daave]

Addendum:

I just realized you didn't fully respond to this bit:

Which CDs have you tried to boot from? It sounds like a problem with
the CD itself or the CD drive.

If you have tried booting off only one CD, there's a chance there's just
something wrong with the CD. I would try booting off a Knoppix or Ubuntu
Live CD if you haven't done so already.

 

[Jeff]

Hi Dave,

This may sound like a pretty ridiculous question, but, I would like to make
sure of the answer before making a decision about buying a new notebook
computer.

Being that my current notebook computer will not read from the CD during
boot-up (at least not most of the time), I would believe that this would be a
hardware problem as you have suggested (motherboard, cabling, or the CD
drive).

Is there anything that may have been caused by a virus or malware that would
interfere with the boot-up process?

If this is a hardware problem, I should probably just bite the bullet and
buy a new notebook. I just want to make sure I look at everything before
placing an order.

Thanks for your help.

Jeff

 

[Daave]

If you mean your PC's (and not Windows') boot up process, I would say no
(unless you somehow introduced a virus to your BIOS, which I highly
doubt!). One thing that *may* help (probably a longshot, though) is to
clear your CMOS. I worked on a PC recently, and that did the trick. If
you don't have the documentation for the method, I'm sure you'll be able
to find it online.

If you have access to another CD drive, you *could* swap it and see if
your problems go away. But I wouldn't sink any money into your laptop;
it's too old, and other parts will surely need to be replaced soon.

YW and good luck. And make sure your next PC comes with Windows 7!

 

[Paul]

Hi Dave,

This may sound like a pretty ridiculous question, but, I would like to make
sure of the answer before making a decision about buying a new notebook
computer.

Being that my current notebook computer will not read from the CD during
boot-up (at least not most of the time), I would believe that this would be a
hardware problem as you have suggested (motherboard, cabling, or the CD
drive).

Is there anything that may have been caused by a virus or malware that would
interfere with the boot-up process?

If this is a hardware problem, I should probably just bite the bullet and
buy a new notebook. I just want to make sure I look at everything before
placing an order.

Thanks for your help.

Jeff

If you want to test your laptop, with a different OS and software, you could
try Ubuntu.

For this test, I happened to have downloaded the Ubuntu 9.04 ISO, for
preparing a boot CD. But I hadn't burned a CD with it yet. (I usually
try to test new Linux distros, by booting them in Windows Virtual PC.
If they won't boot there, I don't burn a CD using that software.)

So I dug out a CDRW (because some distros, I end up throwing them away,
and I try to use CDRW so the cost is zero). I used Nero to prepare a bootable
CD from the downloaded file.

I would plug that CD into your workstation, and not the laptop. Because
you say the CD drive on the laptop doesn't work. If your workstation
has a burner, that can handle burning a 700MB CD, then you can prepare
the CD there.

then, boot the workstation with the Ubuntu CD.

The first prompt you see, will be for the language. I hit return immediately,
as the default was correct. Then, you will see the Ubuntu main boot menu.
The first option in the list, is to "Boot without installing anything". I
selected that option.

It took a while to get booted. (I think my Knoppix CD boots faster.)

One of the menu items, from the menus at the top, include an option to
prepare a bootable USB Flash stick. I have an 8GB USB flash, which is
big enough to hold a 700MB CD image with room to spare. So I selected the
option in Ubuntu, to prepare a bootable USB flash.

One option in the dialog, is whether you want a "persistent store" area
on your USB flash, and I set that to the bottom option, which is to throw
everything away at the end of a session. This is to prevent Ubuntu from
doing a lot of writes to my USB flash.

So, now I was ready for a test.

On my computer, if I press F11 just after the power comes on, I get a
temporary boot menu. In the boot menu, are the usual hard drive and
internal CD drive options. Now that my Ubuntu flash stick was plugged in,
that was offered as an option in the temporary boot menu. So I selected
that for a boot.

It seemed to take longer to boot from USB flash, than from my CD/DVD
drive. My USB flash stick reads at 30MB/sec, so it should have handily
beat the Ubuntu CD in terms of boot time. Yet, it seemed to be slower.

When you boot from either the Ubuntu CD or the USB flash, you have to
leave the media plugged in, for the entire Ubuntu session. At least with the
flash, there is no droning noise from the CD drive.

In the Ubuntu menu, is a program called Brasero, which appears to be
a CD/DVD burning program. If your internal drive on the laptop is
a burner, then you could test it with that. Since you're booted at
this point from the USB flash, you should be free to change media
on the optical drive.

Linux uses "mount" and "umount" commands, to allow the use of any
media. If the tray won't open on the CD drive, chances are the
drive is "busy", because the media is mounted. Unmounting it,
or using an eject option from a menu, may free it up.

The only thing I found a bit strange about Ubuntu, was I couldn't
find a GUI element to control reboot, shutdown, or poweroff. I
was able to do that, by opening a "Terminal" window and giving
a text command. For example

sudo poweroff now

sudo shutdown now

sudo reboot

or the like, are ways to stop the Linux session. They should allow
the OS to properly unmount and sync any file systems, so they don't
get damaged (depending on what file systems you've been using,
like reading your hard drive or whatever). So it would appear
that Ubuntu expects you to use the manual page, as in

man poweroff

man shutdowh

to get any necessary options. I include the "now" option, because
that is what works on some other systems I've used.

So that is a quick recipe for booting a computer that has no
working CD drive. You can make a USB flash, as long as it is
big enough to hold 700MB of files.

One other note. The USB flash, includes an autorun.inf . Which
implies, they've set a trap on it, if the USB flash is plugged
in when Windows is running. The autorun.inf is set to open
"wubi", which appears to be an installer you can run from Windows.
I didn't particularly like that idea, so I edited the autorun.inf
file while I was preparing the USB flash. (After the flash was
loaded with software, I had a look around.) I just edited the
contents of the Open= option, so nothing would happen when it
is plugged in. If I need to actually install Ubuntu, I'd just
use the CD. Other than that, it looked OK.

So with the Brasero program (hope I spelled that right), you
should be able to test CD burning. And just browsing the CD,
should test the ability to read CDs.

Since you use your workstation to do all the preparatory
work, you're not relying on the laptop to do it.

Paul

 

[Jeff]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your detailed post. I will keep it in mind for the future when I
have a little more time to work with the notebook computer.

Because the CD drive will not allow booting from media (maybe one or two
times out of 20), and the primary battery only lasts about five minutes... I
have come to the conclusion that the notebook isn't worth spending much more
time on. I can still use it in DOS mode if I boot from a floppy, or in safe
mode in XP.

I really do appreciate all of the time you took with your post.

Thanks

Jeff