Multiple SATA drive enclosure - can I do this?

[Charles.Sachs]

Greetings,

I am in the planning stages of creating 5TB of NAS for my home network.


I will be creating a RAID5 solution and, for price-per-GB-reasons, have
settled upon 500GB drives.

As a result, this is looking like an eleven- or twelve-drive solution.
I will be using SATA drives.

I have researched external multiple-SATA-drive enclosures and found
them to be more pricey than I am willing to pay.

With the 1-meter (~39in) cable length allowed under the SATA spec, I am
wondering why I wouldn't just buy two cheap (~$30) computer cases, mod
the cases to allow installation of extra cooling fans and SATA cables,
use the included power supplies to power the drives and fans and mount
four to six drives in the empty cases (no MOBO or anything else) and
run the SATA cables back to the RAID controller in the case of the main
computer?

Sure, cases take up more space than enclosures- but the extra space
should provide for better cooling ability of the drives.

The cheapest 12-drive enclosures I have been able to find run in the
hundreds (to thousands) of dollars and this sounds like a $100
solution.

So if I don't care about the extra space, are there any fatal flaws in
this evil plan that I'm not seeing?

Thanks.

 

[Arno Wagner]

Greetings,

I am in the planning stages of creating 5TB of NAS for my home network.

I will be creating a RAID5 solution and, for price-per-GB-reasons, have
settled upon 500GB drives.

As a result, this is looking like an eleven- or twelve-drive solution.
I will be using SATA drives.

I have researched external multiple-SATA-drive enclosures and found
them to be more pricey than I am willing to pay.

With the 1-meter (~39in) cable length allowed under the SATA spec, I am
wondering why I wouldn't just buy two cheap (~$30) computer cases, mod
the cases to allow installation of extra cooling fans and SATA cables,
use the included power supplies to power the drives and fans and mount
four to six drives in the empty cases (no MOBO or anything else) and
run the SATA cables back to the RAID controller in the case of the main
computer?

Sure, cases take up more space than enclosures- but the extra space
should provide for better cooling ability of the drives.

The cheapest 12-drive enclosures I have been able to find run in the
hundreds (to thousands) of dollars and this sounds like a $100
solution.

So if I don't care about the extra space, are there any fatal flaws in
this evil plan that I'm not seeing?

I have one case with 12 drives in it. It is a chieftec big tower server
case, that has direct space for 6 drives in two cages that take
3 drives each. You can (and should) put an 80mm fan in front of
each cage. In the top you can put two of these or the like:

http://www.pc-cooling.ch/product_info.php?cPath=5_34_864&products_id=1970

for the other 6 drives. For PSU, you need to have something like 300W
for the drives alone. They do not consume that much when running,
but during start up. I have an Enermax 550W PSU in there, but
it is a dual-Athlon MP system, so a single CPU system with low-power
graphics card should also be functiona with a good quality 450W PSU.

Arno

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

I am in the planning stages of creating 5TB of NAS for my home network.

I will be creating a RAID5 solution and, for price-per-GB-reasons,
have settled upon 500GB drives.

As a result, this is looking like an eleven- or twelve-drive solution.
I will be using SATA drives.

I have researched external multiple-SATA-drive enclosures
and found them to be more pricey than I am willing to pay.

With the 1-meter (~39in) cable length allowed under the SATA spec, I
am wondering why I wouldn't just buy two cheap (~$30) computer cases,
mod the cases to allow installation of extra cooling fans and SATA
cables, use the included power supplies to power the drives and fans
and mount four to six drives in the empty cases (no MOBO or anything
else) and run the SATA cables back to the RAID controller in the case
of the main computer?

Yes you can, but the cheapest cases dont have that many drive bays
and it isnt that great mounting drives in every bay, you dont get enough
airflow over the drives to cool them adequately unless you add a fan
and that only works very well with the 3.5" drive bay stack.

Sure, cases take up more space than enclosures- but the extra
space should provide for better cooling ability of the drives.

In practice it doesnt, because you have the drives all stacked adjacent
with no real airflow over them. The rest of the space is irrelevant really.

The cheapest 12-drive enclosures I have been able
to find run in the hundreds (to thousands) of dollars

Yeah, they're not a mass market commodity item.

and this sounds like a $100 solution.

So if I don't care about the extra space, are there
any fatal flaws in this evil plan that I'm not seeing?

Yes, adequate drive bay cooling.

I'd personally see if I could find a PC case that has a decent
3.5" drive bay cage, one that you could combine two cases by
pinching the cage out of one to put in the one you want to use.
There is often enough space below the cage to mount another
and you can usually mount a fan so it blows over those, two fans.
Main problem is that the fans arent quiet and I prefer quiet systems.

You'd likely still need a total of 2 cases, with 2 more canabalised, since
there arent that many cases that have a cage that takes 6 3.5" drives.

I dont think using the 5.25" drive bay stack with bay kits works very
well, you dont get much cooling of the drives by conduction to the drive
bay stack metal that way and it isnt that easy to cool with fans either.

 

[Steve Cousins]

Greetings,

I am in the planning stages of creating 5TB of NAS for my home network.


I will be creating a RAID5 solution and, for price-per-GB-reasons, have
settled upon 500GB drives.

As a result, this is looking like an eleven- or twelve-drive solution.
I will be using SATA drives.

I have researched external multiple-SATA-drive enclosures and found
them to be more pricey than I am willing to pay.

I use the Supermicro CSE-M35T1 (and CSE-M35T1B for black) hot-swap cages
that hold 5 drives in the space of 3 5.25 inch bays. Put two of these
together and you get 10 drive cages. They come with fans built in and
I've had good luck with them. Sure they are a bit more expensive than
using another case but it is not that bad all in all. $120 each and you
only need two of them. The other one or two drives you can put
internally. I do this with an 11 drive system.

So if I don't care about the extra space, are there any fatal flaws in
this evil plan that I'm not seeing?

Nothing fatal but you need to make sure you power up the second case
appropriately (before or during bootup) of course. Sounds silly but it
could come back to bite you some late night. Plus you will need to
jumper the second cases motherboard power connector in order to turn on
the power supply (I'm assuming ATX).

Good luck.

Steve

 

[Charles.Sachs]

Thanks, everyone, for your replies.

I am sensitive to the cooling issues and, while I don't have the link
handy, when researching the underpinnings of this solution I came
across someone who found a very cost-effective case where the drive
rack ran from the top of the case to the bottom. Gleaming aluminum.
This would allow for safe mounting of about four drives with adequate
space for airflow, addressing the cooling issues.

While I had just about written off the enclosure idea, Steve's
suggestion below has me rethinking my approach.

$240 for two five-drive enclosures _was_ a bit more than I had wanted
to spend, but gaining the ease of hot-swapping the drives (supported by
the RAID controller I'm targeting) and going with a solution _designed_
to hold five drives vs. the jury-rigging I was originally considering
seems like the more sound idea considering the investment I will be
making in the hard drives in the first place.

I'll have to search for cases again.

Much appreciated,
-Chuck

 

[David Flory]

(e-mail address removed) wrote






Yes you can, but the cheapest cases dont have that many drive bays
and it isnt that great mounting drives in every bay, you dont get enough
airflow over the drives to cool them adequately unless you add a fan
and that only works very well with the 3.5" drive bay stack.


In practice it doesnt, because you have the drives all stacked adjacent
with no real airflow over them. The rest of the space is irrelevant really.


Yeah, they're not a mass market commodity item.



Yes, adequate drive bay cooling.

I'd personally see if I could find a PC case that has a decent
3.5" drive bay cage, one that you could combine two cases by
pinching the cage out of one to put in the one you want to use.
There is often enough space below the cage to mount another
and you can usually mount a fan so it blows over those, two fans.
Main problem is that the fans arent quiet and I prefer quiet systems.

You'd likely still need a total of 2 cases, with 2 more canabalised, since
there arent that many cases that have a cage that takes 6 3.5" drives.

I dont think using the 5.25" drive bay stack with bay kits works very
well, you dont get much cooling of the drives by conduction to the drive
bay stack metal that way and it isnt that easy to cool with fans either.

Thermaltake makes a nifty three 5 1/4" bay cage with a 120mm fan in
front of it

I'd keep looking at dedicated hotswap backplane cases, though. If
you're serious enough to need RAID5, you should do it with the right
equipment.

If you're just experimenting, that's a different matter...but building
your own cases/cooling system, and buying quality power supplies could
reach the price of a dedicated case pretty quickly.

Dave

 

[Rod Speed]

Thermaltake makes a nifty three 5 1/4" bay cage with a 120mm fan in front of it

Yeah, http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Chassis/misc/icage/a2309.asp

There arent going to be that many cases that will take 4 of those tho.

I'd keep looking at dedicated hotswap backplane cases, though.

Yeah, me too.

If you're serious enough to need RAID5, you should do it with the right equipment.

Dunno, you can make a case that he doesnt really
need hot swap and that cold swap would be fine
and worth the massive saving on price.

If you're just experimenting, that's a different matter...but building
your own cases/cooling system, and buying quality power supplies could reach the price of a
dedicated case pretty quickly.

If you could actually find a full tower case that can take 4 of those
iCages, and two power supplys, the price may not be quite that bad.
The iCages are reasonably priced.

 

[Charles.Sachs]

Thermaltake makes a nifty three 5 1/4" bay cage with a 120mm fan in front of it

Yeah, http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Chassis/misc/icage/a2309.asp

That's a nifty device. I'm sure this is by design (to aid in cooling),
but it's only a 1:1 mapping of 5.25" bays to 3.5" bays. Finding a
tower case to fit four of them might be impossible as I haven't seen
any tower cases that offer 12 bays. At the very best it limits my case
options severely.

Those iCages are cost effective, though - I found them as cheap as
$16.81 apiece at ACSOutlet.com
(http://www.acsoutlet.com/A2309-Standard.aspx) - shipping yet to be
determined.

Buying four would cut a good amount off buying the two SuperMicro cages
I was considering, but the SuperMicro cages allow me five drives in the
space of three bays plus hot-swappability.

Tough choice, but I think the fact that I can only fit three of those
iCages in the tower cases I've been considering might end up being the
deciding factor.

There arent going to be that many cases that will take 4 of those tho.


Yeah, me too.

All the dedicated hotswap backplane cases I've been able to find have
been rackmount. I don't have a rack (this is a home project) nor am I
currently considering a rack.

I have had difficulty finding some pedistal-tower-form-factor cases
with dedicated hot-swap backplanes. If you could point me in the right
direction to where I should look I'd appreciate it.

Dunno, you can make a case that he doesnt really
need hot swap and that cold swap would be fine
and worth the massive saving on price.


If you could actually find a full tower case that can take 4 of those
iCages, and two power supplys, the price may not be quite that bad.
The iCages are reasonably priced.

Right now my case looks like the following:

Sheet metal, plastic, fans: $145 Cooler Master CM Stacker tower case
Power Supply: $150 Corsair CMPSU-620HX 620 watts
Drive Enclosures: $245 for (2) SuperMicro CSE-M35T-1B hot-swap drive
enclosures

Yeah, maybe I can find a cheaper case than $540 that will give me all
that.

Maybe I can jury-rig a rackmount in the space where I am planning on
keeping this equipment.

Or maybe I can just build a new computer rack.

This is why this is called the _planning_ stage

Thanks for your continued help. I'm going to continue researching.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

That's a nifty device. I'm sure this is by design (to aid in cooling),
but it's only a 1:1 mapping of 5.25" bays to 3.5" bays. Finding a
tower case to fit four of them might be impossible as I haven't seen
any tower cases that offer 12 bays. At the very best it limits my case
options severely.

Those iCages are cost effective, though - I found them as cheap as
$16.81 apiece at ACSOutlet.com
(http://www.acsoutlet.com/A2309-Standard.aspx) - shipping yet to be
determined.

Buying four would cut a good amount off buying the two SuperMicro cages
I was considering, but the SuperMicro cages allow me five drives in the
space of three bays plus hot-swappability.

Tough choice, but I think the fact that I can only fit three of those
iCages in the tower cases I've been considering might end up being the
deciding factor.

Then also consider this one:
http://www.cooldrives.com/sainhosaraca.html

[snip]

 

[David A. Flory]

That's a nifty device. I'm sure this is by design (to aid in cooling),
but it's only a 1:1 mapping of 5.25" bays to 3.5" bays. Finding a
tower case to fit four of them might be impossible as I haven't seen
any tower cases that offer 12 bays. At the very best it limits my case
options severely.

Those iCages are cost effective, though - I found them as cheap as
$16.81 apiece at ACSOutlet.com
(http://www.acsoutlet.com/A2309-Standard.aspx) - shipping yet to be
determined.

Buying four would cut a good amount off buying the two SuperMicro cages
I was considering, but the SuperMicro cages allow me five drives in the
space of three bays plus hot-swappability.

Tough choice, but I think the fact that I can only fit three of those
iCages in the tower cases I've been considering might end up being the
deciding factor.

Then also consider this one:
http://www.cooldrives.com/sainhosaraca.html

[snip]

^^^Good idea. I remember looking at those myself. I'm a bit concerned
that they only have one fan and no temperature warning system.

One advantage of the low density iCages is that if the fan fails (and
good 120mm fans usually don't), your drives will probably be okay until
you notice the problem.

Even if a high density rack has a warning system, you need have some
sort of plan for a cooling failure (auto-shutdown, etc.) or your drives
will cook.

BR

Dave

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

That's a nifty device. I'm sure this is by design (to aid in
cooling), but it's only a 1:1 mapping of 5.25" bays to 3.5" bays.

Yeah, its really just a decent way of providing good airflow
over the 3.5" drives when they are in the 5.25" drive bay stack.

Finding a tower case to fit four of them might be impossible
as I haven't seen any tower cases that offer 12 bays.

I seem to recall having seen a few, but sure, they are pretty rare.

At the very best it limits my case options severely.

Yeah, tho you could have a couple of cases mounted side by side
with no covers on the sides where they meet, with some sort of
mechanism to clamp them together, maybe even just a long bolt
thru both cases in a couple of places. That would provide a
convenient way of having two power supplys too. Just have half
the drives and their power supply in the second case.

Those iCages are cost effective, though - I found
them as cheap as $16.81 apiece at ACSOutlet.com
(http://www.acsoutlet.com/A2309-Standard.aspx)
- shipping yet to be determined.

Yeah, meant to include the pricegrabber link as well and forgot.

Buying four would cut a good amount off buying the two SuperMicro
cages I was considering, but the SuperMicro cages allow me five
drives in the space of three bays plus hot-swappability.

Yeah, they certainly have their advantages. Hot swap might be
handy but its a bit theoretical when drives are pretty reliable now.

The big advantage with the iCage vertical spacing is that
you have plenty of free space between adjacent drives
to make it easy to keep the drives cool with quiet fans.

Tough choice, but I think the fact that I can only fit
three of those iCages in the tower cases I've been
considering might end up being the deciding factor.

I'd consider the two case approach myself, because
it makes the second power supply mounting easier too.

I'd rather have the big fan that the iCage has and
would personally put a fan controller on it and
wind the speed back while ensuring the drive
SMART temps are fine, so its nice and quiet.

All the dedicated hotswap backplane cases I've been able
to find have been rackmount. I don't have a rack (this is a
home project) nor am I currently considering a rack.

And the prices are in a different class too.

I have had difficulty finding some pedistal-tower-form-factor cases
with dedicated hot-swap backplanes. If you could point me in the
right direction to where I should look I'd appreciate it.

I wouldnt bother myself, essentially because you dont really
need hotswap. Is it any big deal if you have to turn the system
off in the rare event that you do need to replace a drive ?

Its obvious why servers need hotswap, but its unlikely
you do unless the other inhabitant of your house are
likely to Bobbit you when you need to swap a drive.

It would be cheaper to just get a solid door for the room
the NAS is in and lock it while you are swapping the drive.

I prefer the twin case route now. Mainly
because it handles the extra power supply too.

Right now my case looks like the following:

Sheet metal, plastic, fans: $145 Cooler Master CM Stacker tower case
Power Supply: $150 Corsair CMPSU-620HX 620 watts
Drive Enclosures: $245 for (2) SuperMicro CSE-M35T-1B hot-swap drive
enclosures

Yeah, maybe I can find a cheaper case than $540 that will give me all that.

Yep, two cases with 2 iCages each would be cheaper.

The only real thing you lose is hotswap and you gain ease of separate
power supply and you dont need such a monster supply as the Corsair.

You need to consider whether a single power supply has enough
current for all those drives on the +12V rail that powers the drives
too. Most of those big supplys have the extra wattage on the other
12V rails that are intended for the cpu and video cards, not drives.

Corse if your raid card supports staggered starts it may not matter much.

Maybe I can jury-rig a rackmount in the space
where I am planning on keeping this equipment.

Or maybe I can just build a new computer rack.

Or just bolt a couple of normal cases together etc.

This is why this is called the _planning_ stage

It is indeed.

Thanks for your continued help. I'm going to continue researching.

I'd be interested to hear how it works out when you
implement it, whichever route you end up going, particularly
if it ends up not as obvious as it first looks currently.

 

[Rod Speed]

Thermaltake makes a nifty three 5 1/4" bay cage with a 120mm fan
in front of it
Yeah,
http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Chassis/misc/icage/a2309.asp
That's a nifty device. I'm sure this is by design (to aid in
cooling), but it's only a 1:1 mapping of 5.25" bays to 3.5" bays. Finding a tower case to fit
four of them might be impossible as I
haven't seen any tower cases that offer 12 bays. At the very best
it limits my case options severely.

Those iCages are cost effective, though - I found them as cheap as
$16.81 apiece at ACSOutlet.com
(http://www.acsoutlet.com/A2309-Standard.aspx) - shipping yet to be
determined.

Buying four would cut a good amount off buying the two SuperMicro
cages I was considering, but the SuperMicro cages allow me five
drives in the space of three bays plus hot-swappability.

Tough choice, but I think the fact that I can only fit three of
those iCages in the tower cases I've been considering might end up
being the deciding factor.

Then also consider this one:
http://www.cooldrives.com/sainhosaraca.html

[snip]

^^^Good idea. I remember looking at those myself. I'm a bit concerned that they only have one
fan and no temperature warning system.

You could fix the last by using the drive SMART temps yourself.

One advantage of the low density iCages is that if the fan fails (and good 120mm fans usually
don't), your drives will probably be okay until you notice the problem.

True. And since there is a lot of space between the drives,
you should be able to put a fan speed controller on the
fans and so get a nice quiet system even tho it has fans.

Even if a high density rack has a warning system, you need have some sort of plan for a cooling
failure (auto-shutdown, etc.) or your drives will cook.

Sure, but that isnt that hard to do using the drive SMART temps.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Holds up to four 3.5" SATA hard drives of any capacity
Data transfer rate of up to 150 MB/sec
Mounts easily into three 5.25" bay slots, increasing space efficiency by 25%
All aluminum construction for maximum durability and heat dissipation
80mm rear mounted ball-bearing fan to ensure all your hard drives remains cool
* Temperature sensor with audible alarm *
* LEDs continuously report hard drive and fan activity *
Supports RAID Hardware and Software applications

http://www.satagear.com/SATA-SRT43K_SATA_RACK_Case.html

[snip]

^^^Good idea. I remember looking at those myself.

I'm a bit concerned that they only have one fan and no temperature
warning system.

Yeah, that's quite likely what they mean by "Power control, sensor & alarm".
Makes sense.

One advantage of the low density iCages is that if the fan fails (and
good 120mm fans usually don't), your drives will probably be okay until
you notice the problem.

Even if a high density rack has a warning system, you need have some
sort of plan for a cooling failure (auto-shutdown, etc.) or your drives
will cook.

Yeah, obviously it has no "Power control, sensor & alarm" .

BR

Dave

Btw, babblehead, wasn't I in your killfile?