MS finally gets screwed by it's own EULA

  • Thread starter The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly
  • Start date
T

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/tech-news/?p=2142

Microsoft told to pay 175 million in taxes in India

A unit of Microsoft Corp. has been asked by an Indian appellate
authority in income tax to pay more than 7 billion rupees - or about US
$175 million on income earned for the assessment period of 1999 to 2005.

The amount is computed based a tax rate of 15% on royalties earned in
the country. If interest is added, the total burden is likely to go even
higher.

How did this situation came about? According to The Economic Times:

The essence of the case, which pertained to the period 1999-2004,
is Microsoft’s decision not to pay tax in India citing several
legalities, including the double taxation avoidance agreement with the
US. The company, which sells its software in India through a circuitous
route involving several group companies, had maintained that its deal
with the customers is a sale and no royalty payment is involved. It is
this position that has now been rejected.

The irony is that what nailed the case here is Microsoft’s own EULA. Tax
authorities cited a clause in the document which stated “the product is
licensed, not sold,” concluding that since the software is licensed, a
royalty is involved.

Obviously, it is not the last word on the case yet. Microsoft believes
it should not have to pay the tax, citing several legalities, including
a double taxation avoidance agreement with the United States. At the
moment, Microsoft can move on to the Income-Tax Appellate Authority
(ITAT) and the hig court to appeal its case.

A Microsoft spokesperson said, “Microsoft believes it is in full
compliance with the Indian tax laws and the income-tax treaty agreement
between India and the US. Microsoft is reviewing the order and we will
determine our course of action accordingly.”

Still, I find it interesting that Microsoft believes its products to be
licensed - as stated in its EULA, and not sold. I have never really
considered the implications of “licensing” a software versus
“purchasing” one. What do you have to say about this?

_________________

Wow, now this is just priceless! And MS is fighting it because they
want to have their cake and eat it to with their license.

--
"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

DRM and unintended consequences:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/security/?p=435&tag=nl.e101
 
E

Earle Horton

It's like a DVD movie or a book. You can read or view it all you want, but
when you start making Xerox copies or disks to sell, that is where it ends.
In that respect you don't "own" copies of Windows, so it is paid for with a
royalty. So Microsoft should pay India. If so, they'll just get the money
from their US customers. That's how drug companies work. Ever wonder why
prescription drugs are so cheap in Canada and Mexico?

Earle

"The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"
 
K

kurttrail

Earle said:
It's like a DVD movie or a book. You can read or view it all you want,
but when you start making Xerox copies or disks to sell, that is where
it ends. In that respect you don't "own" copies of Windows, so it is
paid for with a royalty. So Microsoft should pay India. If so, they'll
just get the money from their US customers. That's how drug companies
work. Ever wonder why prescription drugs are so cheap in Canada and
Mexico?

Because their governments are less in the pockets of the Drug Industry
than the US gov't is.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Former Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
M

Michael A. Covington

This is very interesting. As for "licensing" versus "purchasing,"
"licensing" is the only way software has ever been sold. It's just that in
most other cases, the licenses are simpler than Microsoft's.

"The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"
 
C

C.B.

"The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/tech-news/?p=2142

Microsoft told to pay 175 million in taxes in India

A unit of Microsoft Corp. has been asked by an Indian appellate authority
in income tax to pay more than 7 billion rupees - or about US $175 million
on income earned for the assessment period of 1999 to 2005.

The amount is computed based a tax rate of 15% on royalties earned in the
country. If interest is added, the total burden is likely to go even
higher.

How did this situation came about? According to The Economic Times:

The essence of the case, which pertained to the period 1999-2004, is
Microsoft’s decision not to pay tax in India citing several legalities,
including the double taxation avoidance agreement with the US. The
company, which sells its software in India through a circuitous route
involving several group companies, had maintained that its deal with the
customers is a sale and no royalty payment is involved. It is this
position that has now been rejected.

The irony is that what nailed the case here is Microsoft’s own EULA. Tax
authorities cited a clause in the document which stated “the product is
licensed, not sold,” concluding that since the software is licensed, a
royalty is involved.

Obviously, it is not the last word on the case yet. Microsoft believes it
should not have to pay the tax, citing several legalities, including a
double taxation avoidance agreement with the United States. At the moment,
Microsoft can move on to the Income-Tax Appellate Authority (ITAT) and the
hig court to appeal its case.

A Microsoft spokesperson said, “Microsoft believes it is in full
compliance with the Indian tax laws and the income-tax treaty agreement
between India and the US. Microsoft is reviewing the order and we will
determine our course of action accordingly.”

Still, I find it interesting that Microsoft believes its products to be
licensed - as stated in its EULA, and not sold. I have never really
considered the implications of “licensing” a software versus “purchasing”
one. What do you have to say about this?

_________________

Wow, now this is just priceless! And MS is fighting it because they want
to have their cake and eat it to with their license.

--
"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on free
speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

DRM and unintended consequences:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/security/?p=435&tag=nl.e101


The solution is simple. Microsoft should pay the requested fees.
Microsoft can then cease using all Indian nationals for their customer
support and technical support. The outsourced Microsoft employees can then
return to their lower paying jobs or go on the welfare rolls of the Indian
government, if the Indian government does in fact take care of their
unemployed citizens. As a matter of fact, most American companies and those
of other countries use Indian nationals for their customer support and
technical support. The Indian government could care less about this. They
want to be able to have their cake and eat it too.
It is the corporate environment in America and other countries that has
enabled millions of Indian citizens to have viable employment and the chance
to better their lives and the lives of their families. Multinational
corporations are in fact responsible for dragging the Indian economy out of
the gutter. It is the taxes paid by multinational corporations that has
enabled India to rebuild their cities and attempt to feel the Indian people.
Indian citizens will soon outnumber the citizens of China. Does anyone
think the Indian government is capable of taking care of all these people? I
think not. Will India limit the number of children allowed per family? I
think not. Where does this leave India? Where will all the employment
opportunities for Indian nationals come from?
Tit for tat, I say.

C.B.
 
K

kurttrail

C.B. said:
"The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"



The solution is simple. Microsoft should pay the requested fees.
Microsoft can then cease using all Indian nationals for their customer
support and technical support. The outsourced Microsoft employees can
then return to their lower paying jobs or go on the welfare rolls of the
Indian government, if the Indian government does in fact take care of
their unemployed citizens. As a matter of fact, most American companies
and those of other countries use Indian nationals for their customer
support and technical support. The Indian government could care less
about this. They want to be able to have their cake and eat it too.
It is the corporate environment in America and other countries that
has
enabled millions of Indian citizens to have viable employment and the
chance to better their lives and the lives of their families.
Multinational corporations are in fact responsible for dragging the
Indian economy out of the gutter. It is the taxes paid by multinational
corporations that has enabled India to rebuild their cities and attempt
to feel the Indian people.
Indian citizens will soon outnumber the citizens of China. Does
anyone
think the Indian government is capable of taking care of all these
people? I think not. Will India limit the number of children allowed per
family? I think not. Where does this leave India? Where will all the
employment opportunities for Indian nationals come from?
Tit for tat, I say.

C.B.

And make India into a bigger pirate nation than it already is! ROFL!

MS made its bed, now it has to lie in it.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Former Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
T

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly

C.B. said:
"The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"



The solution is simple. Microsoft should pay the requested fees.

I agree.
Microsoft can then cease using all Indian nationals for their customer
support and technical support.

And hopefully bring those jobs back to the US, as well as Dell, HP, et. all.
The outsourced Microsoft employees can...
The Indian government could care less
about this. They want to be able to have their cake and eat it too.

Doesn't everyone?!

I think it's high time that MS start following the laws and rules of any
country they practice business in or sell their products in. If India
has a law about royalties, and MS's products fall under that law, then
MS should comply instead of fighting it. This is yet another reason for
the rest of the world to dispise Americans more than they already do.
It is the corporate environment in America and other countries that
has enabled millions of Indian citizens to have viable employment and
the chance to better their lives and the lives of their families.

Yes, and at the same time laying off thousands of hard working Americans
that had those positions.
Multinational corporations are in fact responsible for dragging the
Indian economy out of the gutter.

And helping to dump the US economy into the gutter.

Tit for tat, I say.

C.B.


--
"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on
free speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

DRM and unintended consequences:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/security/?p=435&tag=nl.e101
 
A

Adam Albright

"The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"



The solution is simple. Microsoft should pay the requested fees.
Microsoft can then cease using all Indian nationals for their customer
support and technical support. The outsourced Microsoft employees can then
return to their lower paying jobs or go on the welfare rolls of the Indian
government, if the Indian government does in fact take care of their
unemployed citizens. As a matter of fact, most American companies and those
of other countries use Indian nationals for their customer support and
technical support. The Indian government could care less about this. They
want to be able to have their cake and eat it too.
It is the corporate environment in America and other countries that has
enabled millions of Indian citizens to have viable employment and the chance
to better their lives and the lives of their families. Multinational
corporations are in fact responsible for dragging the Indian economy out of
the gutter. It is the taxes paid by multinational corporations that has
enabled India to rebuild their cities and attempt to feel the Indian people.
Indian citizens will soon outnumber the citizens of China. Does anyone
think the Indian government is capable of taking care of all these people? I
think not. Will India limit the number of children allowed per family? I
think not. Where does this leave India? Where will all the employment
opportunities for Indian nationals come from?
Tit for tat, I say.

C.B.

I remind you that you're just a babbling idiot. LOL!

Now for some FACTS. Microsoft has a long history of either breaking
the law or skating right up to the edge of the ice. The amount
involved is chump change for Microsoft. Yet Ballmer will likely blow
millions in legal fees trying to not follow Indian law. Classic
Microsoft BS.

Damn, I swear, you true blue Windows nut jobs NEVER hold Microsoft
accountable for anything.
 
C

C.B.

"The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'"
I agree.


And hopefully bring those jobs back to the US, as well as Dell, HP, et.
all.



Doesn't everyone?!

I think it's high time that MS start following the laws and rules of any
country they practice business in or sell their products in. If India has
a law about royalties, and MS's products fall under that law, then MS
should comply instead of fighting it. This is yet another reason for the
rest of the world to dispise Americans more than they already do.


Yes, and at the same time laying off thousands of hard working Americans
that had those positions.


And helping to dump the US economy into the gutter.




--
"Fair use is not merely a nice concept--it is a federal law based on free
speech rights under the First Amendment and is a cornerstone of the
creativity and innovation that is a hallmark of this country. Consumer
rights in the digital age are not frivolous."
- Maura Corbett

DRM and unintended consequences:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/security/?p=435&tag=nl.e101


I agree.

C.B.
 
S

Sal M'Nella

kurttrail said:
And make India into a bigger pirate nation than it already is! ROFL!

MS made its bed, now it has to lie in it.

Then comes Kurt, after all the BUTT and ASS he can find!
 
S

Sal M'Nella

Adam Albright said:
I remind you that you're just a babbling idiot. LOL!

Now for some FACTS. Microsoft has a long history of either breaking
the law or skating right up to the edge of the ice. The amount
involved is chump change for Microsoft. Yet Ballmer will likely blow
millions in legal fees trying to not follow Indian law. Classic
Microsoft BS.

Damn, I swear, you true blue Windows nut jobs NEVER hold Microsoft
accountable for anything.

You are so full of yourself. Are you sure you can fit in the news group?
Maybe we should start microsoft.public.windows.vista.general.adam.almighty
 
K

kurttrail

Sal said:
Then comes Kurt, after all the BUTT and ASS he can find!

Wouldn't that be redundant?

As for you lame attempt at a joke, I didn't know that Microsoft had an
ass, but now I stand corrected. They named their ass, Sal M'Nella.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Former Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
K

kurttrail

Sal said:
You are so full of yourself. Are you sure you can fit in the news
group? Maybe we should start
microsoft.public.windows.vista.general.adam.almighty

Go right ahead and try.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Former Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
S

Sal M'Nella

kurttrail said:
Wouldn't that be redundant?

No, you are redundant. Day after day, post after post.
As for you lame attempt at a joke, I didn't know that Microsoft had an
ass, but now I stand corrected. They named their ass, Sal M'Nella.

Look who is talking Mr. Microscum the pubic windows gonorrhea master !
 
K

kurttrail

Sal said:
No, you are redundant. Day after day, post after post.

As opposed to Frank and his repeating that there are more distro than
linux users?
Look who is talking Mr. Microscum the pubic windows gonorrhea master !

Yep, I'm my own ass. Not the ass of a soul-less corporation, like you
and your fellow MicroSycophant, Frank.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Former Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
H

HeyBub

Earle said:
It's like a DVD movie or a book. You can read or view it all you
want, but when you start making Xerox copies or disks to sell, that
is where it ends. In that respect you don't "own" copies of Windows,
so it is paid for with a royalty. So Microsoft should pay India. If
so, they'll just get the money from their US customers. That's how
drug companies work. Ever wonder why prescription drugs are so cheap
in Canada and Mexico?

Prescription drugs are not cheap in Canada and Mexico. Proprietary drugs are
generally less expensive outside the U.S., but generic drugs usually cost
considerably more.
 
F

Frank

Kevpan815 said:
Maybe You Should Run For King. Just FYI
He proly fell off the wagon (IOW's he's drunk once again!) and that is
why he's back...LOL!
Pathetic!
Frank
 

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