A EULA issue regarding the Daily Tech installation workaround

  • Thread starter Colin Barnhorst
  • Start date
C

Colin Barnhorst

The Vista EULA states:

"8. SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement
only gives you some
rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless
applicable law gives you
more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as
expressly permitted in this
agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in
the software that only
allow you to use it in certain ways. For more information, see
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/userights. You may not
· work around any technical limitations in the software;
(snip)

The procedure in the DT article may be covered by this provision. At the
very least, I would check with MS to see if does before recommending it to
others.

Now, guys, fire away.
 
M

MICHAEL

You may not work around any technical limitations in the software

I've never liked that statement.... I'm not even sure what that could
possibly cover.

-Michael
 
R

Rock

The Vista EULA states:

"8. SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement
only gives you some
rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless
applicable law gives you
more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as
expressly permitted in this
agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in
the software that only
allow you to use it in certain ways. For more information, see
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/userights. You may not
· work around any technical limitations in the software;
(snip)

The procedure in the DT article may be covered by this provision. At the
very least, I would check with MS to see if does before recommending it to
others.

Say it is in fact a violation of the EULA, there is no way to know that was
done, is there? So in effect there is no practical way to enforce it.
Knowing something is a violation of the EULA has an impact on some, but
others don't care. Moving an OEM copy of the OS to a new computer, then
lying when calling in for activation, is no problem for some folks. With no
teeth to the enforcement it opens things wide for dual boot with the
qualifying OS, selling that OS, installing it on another system, etc. I
can't believe they left open this door.
 
G

Guest

The EULA of discussion has one implied purpose; legally protecting Microsoft
and Vista's OS from not-authorized OS modifications. Regardless if the source
is licensed builders, OEMs, third party software vendors, and specifically
any and all persons attempting to weaken Kernel Patch Protection, hash,
serial numbers, matching points, and obviously includes whackers and hackers.

Win XP has a very similar EULA. The legal difference regarding Vista'a EULA,
the Vista EULA includes a Giant Bear Trap that's loaded and ready for
springing into action, instantly.

Microsoft's incredible Jim Allchinn has several online articles extensively
sharing the security reasons for the importance for legally protecting Kernel
Patch Protection, as well as Vista's entire OS.

Who benefits the most from Vista's EULA? Does our entire world benefit the
most?

Why you ask; for sustaining the most state-of-the-art ultra secure OS as
Windows Vista.

Microsoft has many legal professionals ready and fully prepared for pursuing
litigation toward the first character that attempts modification of the
Kernel Patch Protection. The word "attempts" is used because Microsoft's
silent online Security instantly identifies any attempts for illegally
modifying Vista's OS.

Again, who receives the most factual benefit from the EULA while using
Windows Vista?
 
L

Leythos

I've never liked that statement.... I'm not even sure what that could
possibly cover.

And I don't see what "work around" was used - if the installer permits
the described actions, then it's not a work around.
 
B

Breaker

The Vista EULA states:

"8. SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement
only gives you some
rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless
applicable law gives you
more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as
expressly permitted in this
agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in
the software that only
allow you to use it in certain ways. For more information, see
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/userights. You may not
· work around any technical limitations in the software;
(snip)

The procedure in the DT article may be covered by this provision. At the
very least, I would check with MS to see if does before recommending it to
others.

Now, guys, fire away.


Don't see any problem at all with this. The functionality to do the
clean install work around is built into the Setup.exe program which
comes with the Official MS version of Vista. This means it was
released by MS and that they know that this functionality exists. You
are not bypassing any technical limitations if you simply know about a
non-published function that is built into the program.
 
H

Hugh Wyn Griffith

You may not work around any technical limitations in the software;

I suspect Microsoft's Lawyers overlooked the difference between
"limitation" and "limit" ?

If there's a bug and I install a Microsoft fix I am working around the
"limitation in ths software as I bought it which they should want me to
do.

If there's something there to stop be doing something they don't want
me to do and I find a way round that I am working around the "limit in
the software" which they do not want me to do
 
C

Colin Barnhorst

It is a workaround because elsewhere in the EULA the user is prohibited from
continuing to use the operating system that qualified for
upgrade/replacement.
 
C

Colin Barnhorst

For example, since Vista home editions are permitted in the EULA to have no
more than 5 inbound connections and Business is permitted 10, a registry or
other modification to allow 10 in Home is deemed exceeding the scope of the
Home license and puts you out of compliance. There are lots of other
edition-specific limitations that are enforced in the technology by registry
keys and such. Just because you know how to exceed the limitations
specified in the EULA does not keep you from being out of compliance when
you do it.

In this case, if an upgrade edition license prohibits continued use of the
software after its license has been subsumed by the upgrade license, then
the mere fact that you can make it work anyway (working around the technical
limitation) does not make it OK to do so.

I want to reemphacize that because this is a licencing issue, whatever you
decide to do on your own machine, don't give out advice to other users to do
it unless you can get confirmation from a Microsoft local office that it
does not create an out of compliance situation in your region. Remember,
like OEM restrictions, this can vary according to your region.
 
C

Colin Barnhorst

You are if you use it to violate a provision in the EULA. Just because you
can do it doesn't make it OK if the EULA prohibits the RESULT of the
workaround. The EULA does not have to prohibit a proceedure if the RESULT
of that procedure is already prohibited.

in message
 
L

Leythos

It is a workaround because elsewhere in the EULA the user is prohibited from
continuing to use the operating system that qualified for
upgrade/replacement.

And nothing I wrote contradicts that. I know you can't use the OS that was
the upgrade, what I want to do is have a CLEAN install of Vista.

Even the mentioned clean install path is not really a clean install. It's
really a shame that MS went this route, it increases the amount of time
that we have to spend upgrading clients workstations.
 
B

Breaker

Then I guess I will be breaking the EULA according to you. No sweat
off my brow. I qualify for the upgrade because I own a legal Full
version of XP Pro. If I want to install Vista clean and the
functionality is built into the setup to do so, then I will use that
functionality without any problem on my mind at all.

In my thinking though (And in the thinking of a lot of other people I
am sure) I will not be doing anything wrong at all.
 
C

Colin Barnhorst

You only own the license. You do not own the software and have no legal
right to modify it or use it beyond the scope of the license. That is up
front in the EULA.

in message
 
A

arachnid

You only own the license. You do not own the software and have no legal
right to modify it or use it beyond the scope of the license. That is up
front in the EULA.

Here we go again:

: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Sale_Doctrine
:
: The first-sale doctrine as it relates to computer software is an area
: of legal confusion. Software publishers claim the first-sale doctrine
: does not apply because software is licensed, not sold, under the terms
: of an End User License Agreement (EULA). The courts have issued
: contrary decisions regarding the first-sale rights of consumers. Bauer
: & Cie. v. O'Donnell and Bobbs-Merrill Co. v. Straus are two US Supreme
: Court cases that deal with copyright holders trying to enforce terms
: beyond the scope of copyright and patent, by calling it a license. Many
: state courts have also ruled that a sale of software is indeed a sale
: of goods under the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) at the point where
: funds are exchanged for the physical copy of the software. The licensed
: and not sold argument is held mostly in the 8th and 7th Circuits while
: other circuits tend to support the opposite, thus leading to
: conflicting court opinions such as seen in the 3rd Circuit Step-Saver
: Data Systems, Inc. v. Wyse Technology and fifth circuit Vault Corp. v.
: Quaid Software as opposed to the 8th Circuit Blizzard v. BNETD
: (Davidson & Associates v. Internet Gateway Inc (2004)), which have not
: been resolved by the Supreme Court
:
: Federal district courts in California and Texas have issued decisions
: applying the doctrine of first sale for bundled computer software in
: Softman v. Adobe (2001) and Novell, Inc. v. CPU Distrib., Inc. (2000)
: even if the software contains an EULA prohibiting resale. In the
: Softman case, after purchasing bundled software (A box containing many
: programs that are also available individually) from Adobe Systems,
: Softman unbundled it and then resold the component programs. The court
: ruled that Softman could resell the bundled software, no matter what
: the EULA stipulates, because Softman had never assented to the EULA.
: Specifically, the ruling decreed that software purchases be treated as
: sales transactions, rather than explicit license agreements. In other
: words, the court ruling argued that California consumers should have
: the same rights they would enjoy under existing copyright legislation
: when buying a CD or a book.
:
: In a more recent case involving software EULA's and first-sale rights
: Davidson & Associates v. Internet Gateway Inc (2004)[1], the US
: District Court for the Eastern District of Missouri issued a ruling
: which appears to contradict the position of the district courts in
: California and Texas. The first sale reasoning of the Softman court was
: challenged, with the court ruling "The first sale doctrine is only
: triggered by an actual sale. Accordingly, a copyright owner does not
: forfeit his right of distribution by entering into a licensing
: agreement." In addition, the court found the plaintiff's EULA, which
: prohibited resale, was binding on the defendants because "The
: defendants .. expressly consented to the terms of the EULA and Terms of
: Use by clicking 'I Agree' and 'Agree.'" This runs counter to Softman v.
: Adobe. The difference in these rulings has yet to be resolved by a
: higher court.

This confusion is just in the US. Some European (and other) countries are
quite explicit that a software license isn't legally binding on the
consumer unless it is presented to the consumer in full before money
changes hands. That doesn't mean you give them a URL, it means they get to
see and read the actual license in the store and without being made to go
through some big hassle to obtain it.

And no, you can't override the consumer protections granted by these laws
with a EULA. Otherwise the law itself would be meaningless. How
can a lemon law be effective if car dealers can just require you to agree
in writing to give up the protection of that law before they'll sell you a
car?
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top