Motherboard upgrade--is XP Repair permanent?

[KenV]

I just replaced one ASUS Intel-basedmotherboard with a newer ASUS board
which has a different chipset and drivers. Naturally it wouldn't boot onto
XP SP2. So, I repaired Windows with my Microsoft XP SP1 disk (not Reovery
but Repair), skipping all sorts of files along the way that couldn't be
found. After the repair, it did boot up into a barely functioning SP1
version. I then loaded all the new ASUS-Intel chipset drivers and rebooted
successfully. I reactivated XP. I was unable to do an SP2 upgrade through
the usual automatic MS update page, so I DL'ed the entire SP2 file from
Microsoft and upgraded successfully to SP2.

Everything worked, and I dodged the bullet, right? Wrong.

Now, 2 weeks later, things are starting to act up a bit. I got a USB voltage
error message that has just gone away.Then, the bult-in LAN didn't work--it
said the cable was disconnected, which it wasn't. That's working again, now.

I then called the always helpful ASUS tech support people who walked me
through everything. The tech, a very sympathetic fellow, said, "You are
going to have problems eventually. I have never seen a Repair like this work
permanently, usually not after a couple months. Windows is going to start
looking for the old inf files from the old MB chipset. It is very difficult
to get rid of them because both boards are Intel, but they are throughout
your registry. You will either have to do a clean XP install after backing
up all your data, or else call Microsoft tech support and pay for about a
3-4 hour phone session while they walk you through the registry repair
process to get rid of all the old board's registry entries."

Is the ASUS guy right? Should I do a clean install? Is there anything
written about how to do such a registry repair without having to call
Microsoft?

Thanks very much.

Ken

 

[R. McCarty]

A Repair install purges the Device enumeration table. The files skipped
at installation time are likely 3rd-party drivers not natively included with
Windows XP. I doubt what the ASUS tech told you. The way XP works
doesn't track with what he told you. That's a major issue with almost all
Tech Support people - they tend to oversimplify or fall back on some of
the Urban Myths or misconceptions of how XP works internally. To see
what if any previous system devices are detected, add a System level
Environment Variable DevMgr_Show_NonPresent_Devices and set it's
value to 1. Open Device Manager, Click View, Tic/Check "Show
Hidden Devices" and then examine each category for "Phantoms". Just
ignore any in Sound Devices and Non Plug-&-Play as it's normal for
those two categories to have and need to retain Phantoms.

 

[Guest]

Thats the ticket,a clean install is the only way to go with a new board....

 

[R. McCarty]

No, it isn't the only way - it might be one way. Not everybody has disks
to install their applications separately, so sometimes Repair is the proper
solution.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Thats the ticket,a clean install is the only way to go with a new
board....

Nonsense! A repair installation often works just fine, and is almost always
worth trying, since it's much easier than a clean installation.

If it doesn't work properly (as it sometimes doesn't, and apparently didn't
in this case) then you can always revert to a clean installation.

 

[KenV]

Wow. A nealy instantaneous reply, and one that I wanted to hear.

I added that variable to the System in the Registry under HKEY-CURRENT_USER,
although after I did that I performed a Find and saw it under HKEY_USERS
too--maybe it was added automatically. I then looked at the Device manager
and didn't see any "Phantom" devices--although I'm not sure if I would
recognize one. Also, haven't rebooted yet.

Any modifications that should be made to what I've just done?

Thanks again--huge help.

Ken

 

[KenV]

Ken,

Actually, I'm not sure that it didn't work in this case. The computer is
back to good working condition. Maybe the two problems I had weren't even
related to the XP repair--I don't know.

Or did the appearance of these two temporary problems mean that more will
occur and that eventually it will break down? In other words, is this a
delayed problem in most cases?

Ken

 

[R. McCarty]

A "Phantom" device is normally displayed in Device Manager in a
diminished tone or grayed out. There are two distinct types of a
Phantom, one a Device that was at one time in the PC and is no
longer installed or present. Also, devices that may be powered off
will also be shown, but this is a normal condition and they should
not be removed. (Scanner, USB Thumb Drive...) Actually, the
non-powered or not currently inserted devices aren't truly phantoms
but more of a "Known to have existed, been installed but not present
in the current session or hardware profile. True phantoms are most
times duplicates or similar named components where you wouldn't
expect to see more than a single instance (Mice, Keyboards....)

 

[Malke]

Ken,

Actually, I'm not sure that it didn't work in this case. The computer
is back to good working condition. Maybe the two problems I had
weren't even related to the XP repair--I don't know.

Or did the appearance of these two temporary problems mean that more
will occur and that eventually it will break down? In other words, is
this a delayed problem in most cases?

No. Generally you would see problems immediately because the main issue
is one of hardware identification and drivers.

Malke

 

[KenV]

A "Phantom" device is normally displayed in Device Manager in a
diminished tone or grayed out. There are two distinct types of a
Phantom, one a Device that was at one time in the PC and is no
longer installed or present. Also, devices that may be powered off
will also be shown, but this is a normal condition and they should
not be removed. (Scanner, USB Thumb Drive...) Actually, the
non-powered or not currently inserted devices aren't truly phantoms
but more of a "Known to have existed, been installed but not present
in the current session or hardware profile. True phantoms are most
times duplicates or similar named components where you wouldn't
expect to see more than a single instance (Mice, Keyboards....)

OK--here are the listed grayed out devices under "Non plug and play
drivers:"

I don't know what many of these are, but my guess would be that I should
remove only these :


Device: AFD Networking Support Environment

Class: Non-Plug and Play Drivers

Device: Intel AGP Bus Filter
Device: IdeBusDr
Device: Intel(R) Ultra ATA Controller
Device: IntelIde

Is that correct?

Thanks.

Ken

--------------------------------


Device: AFD Networking Support Environment
Device Drivers:
Class: Non-Plug and Play Drivers
Device: Intel AGP Bus Filter
*DISABLED DEVICE*
Class: Non-Plug and Play Drivers
Device: 1394 ARP Client Protocol

Device Drivers:
Class: Non-Plug and Play Drivers
Device: aslm75
Device: Beep
Device: Bluetooth Protocol Stack
Device: Bluetooth Serial Driver
Device: Bluetooth Port Client Driver
Device: Creative AC3 Software Decoder
Device: Creative Proxy Driver
Device: Creative SoundFont Management Device Driver
Device: dmboot
Device: dmload
Device: E-mu Plug-in Architecture Driver
Device: Fips
Device: giveio
Device: Generic Packet Classifier
Device: Creative Hardware Abstract Layer Driver
Device: HTTP
Device: IdeBusDr
Device: Intel(R) Ultra ATA Controller
Device: IntelIde
Device: IPv6 Windows Firewall Driver
Device: IP Network Address Translator
Device: IPSEC driver
Device: IrDA Protocol
Device: ksecdd
Device: mnmdd
Device: mountmgr
Device: Message Queuing access control
Device: NAVENG
Device: NAVEX15
Device: NDIS System Driver
Device: Remote Access NDIS TAPI Driver
Device: NDIS Usermode I/O Protocol
Device: NDProxy
Device: NetBios over Tcpip
Device: Null
Device: Creative OS Services Driver
Device: PartMgr
Device: ParVdm
Device: PfModNT
Device: PQIMount
Device: PQNTDrv
Device: Remote Access Auto Connection Driver
Device: RDPCDD
Device: Reliable Multicast Protocol driver
Device: SAVRT
Device: SAVRTPEL
Device: SPBBCDrv
Device: speedfan
Device: SYMDNS
Device: SymEvent
Device: SYMFW
Device: SYMIDS
Device: SYMIDSCO
Device: symlcbrd
Device: SYMNDIS
Device: SYMREDRV
Device: SYMTDI
Device: TCP/IP Protocol Driver
Device: VgaSave
Device: VolSnap
Device: Remote Access IP ARP Driver
Device: Windows Socket 2.0 Non-IFS Service Provider Support Environment

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Ken,

Actually, I'm not sure that it didn't work in this case. The computer
is back to good working condition.

Great, glad to hear it!

Maybe the two problems I had
weren't even related to the XP repair--I don't know.

Or did the appearance of these two temporary problems mean that more
will occur and that eventually it will break down? In other words, is
this a delayed problem in most cases?

Unlikely. Such delayed problems are not nonexistent, but they are rare.

 

[Jonny]

The preferred method is a clean install of XP on an unpartitioned hard drive
after a motherboard change. The desired method is a repair install to keep
all that's already done with the OS, 3rd party apps, etc. for most folks.

A repair with a XP SP1 installation CD of an XP SP2 install is not possible.

 

[KenV]

The preferred method is a clean install of XP on an unpartitioned hard
drive
after a motherboard change. The desired method is a repair install to
keep
all that's already done with the OS, 3rd party apps, etc. for most folks.

A repair with a XP SP1 installation CD of an XP SP2 install is not
possible.

Jonny,

I must respectfully disagree on that point, or else I have done the
impossible, which, of course, isn't possible.

I /did/ do a repair of my fully up-to-date XP SP2 with an XP SP1 "new
computer only" installation disk, using my original product serial nymber.
It was a repair by force, as described in this thread, and I had to let a
lot of files go uninstalled, but it went through, and I booted successfully
into XP SP1 after the repair. All the previous program settings were intact.
All I had to do was to install the new MB chipset drivers and the viseo card
drivers. Then I updated to SP2 using the MS developers full download option
(about 250meg) rather than the update mode which wouldn't work. After that,
it was fine.

If you read through this thread you'll see that my question had to do with
residual registry entries relating to similar-appearing inf files for the
Intel chipsets which were not identical, thereby potentially "confusing" XP
on a delayed basis, as my ASUS tech had warned me. But as of today, 14 days
after the new MB and the XP repair, everything appears to be working
perfectly. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

BTW, I have since created an XP installation disk with SP2 "slipstreamed"
(there is a program out there to do that called "Autostreamer") which should
help the next time around.

Ken

 

[Steve N.]

I just replaced one ASUS Intel-basedmotherboard with a newer ASUS board
which has a different chipset and drivers. Naturally it wouldn't boot onto
XP SP2. So, I repaired Windows with my Microsoft XP SP1 disk (not Reovery
but Repair), skipping all sorts of files along the way that couldn't be
found. After the repair, it did boot up into a barely functioning SP1
version. I then loaded all the new ASUS-Intel chipset drivers and rebooted
successfully. I reactivated XP. I was unable to do an SP2 upgrade through
the usual automatic MS update page, so I DL'ed the entire SP2 file from
Microsoft and upgraded successfully to SP2.

Everything worked, and I dodged the bullet, right? Wrong.

Now, 2 weeks later, things are starting to act up a bit. I got a USB voltage
error message that has just gone away.Then, the bult-in LAN didn't work--it
said the cable was disconnected, which it wasn't. That's working again, now.

I then called the always helpful ASUS tech support people who walked me
through everything. The tech, a very sympathetic fellow, said, "You are
going to have problems eventually. I have never seen a Repair like this work
permanently, usually not after a couple months. Windows is going to start
looking for the old inf files from the old MB chipset. It is very difficult
to get rid of them because both boards are Intel, but they are throughout
your registry. You will either have to do a clean XP install after backing
up all your data, or else call Microsoft tech support and pay for about a
3-4 hour phone session while they walk you through the registry repair
process to get rid of all the old board's registry entries."

Is the ASUS guy right? Should I do a clean install? Is there anything
written about how to do such a registry repair without having to call
Microsoft?

Thanks very much.

Ken

Make a slipstreamed CD of XP including sp2, then do the repair install.
In fact I'd try that now if I were you.

We've run into this before. Performing a repair install of XP sp1 over
the top of XP sp2 results in some odd things, remnants of sp2 get left
behind (sp1 has no knowledge of them and leaves them alone) and sp2
might not istall afterwards because it may see those remnants and abort
or be incomplete. I have personally tested it several times. Wierd
things can happen.

Steve N.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

The preferred method is a clean install of XP on an unpartitioned hard drive
after a motherboard change.

Preferred by whom? Please cite your source.

The desired method is a repair install to keep
all that's already done with the OS, 3rd party apps, etc. for most folks.

And this is a proven technique, backed up by years of experience.

A repair with a XP SP1 installation CD of an XP SP2 install is not possible.

Incorrect. Of course, SP2 would subsequently have to be reinstalled.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[KenV]

Make a slipstreamed CD of XP including sp2, then do the repair install. In
fact I'd try that now if I were you.

We've run into this before. Performing a repair install of XP sp1 over the
top of XP sp2 results in some odd things, remnants of sp2 get left behind
(sp1 has no knowledge of them and leaves them alone) and sp2 might not
istall afterwards because it may see those remnants and abort or be
incomplete. I have personally tested it several times. Wierd things can
happen.

Steve,

Thanks for your reply.

I don't know if you've had a chance to read through this entire thread, but,
in fact, I did manage to install SP2 successfully, or apparently so, over
the "partially repaired" SP1 version, and the system is now working well.
The Device Manager reports XP Pro Version 2002 Service Pack 2. Is there some
other way to verify that SP2 has been completely installed?

Now, in fact, I /do/ have a slipstreamed CD of XP including SP2, although
obviously I didn't have it at the time of the first repair.

Knowing all this--would you still advise that I do a new repair using the CD
with SP2? Or should I leave it alone unless problems arise?

Ken.

 

[Steve N.]

Steve,

Thanks for your reply.

You're most welcome Ken.

I don't know if you've had a chance to read through this entire thread, but,
in fact, I did manage to install SP2 successfully, or apparently so, over
the "partially repaired" SP1 version, and the system is now working well.
The Device Manager reports XP Pro Version 2002 Service Pack 2. Is there some
other way to verify that SP2 has been completely installed?

Now, in fact, I /do/ have a slipstreamed CD of XP including SP2, although
obviously I didn't have it at the time of the first repair.

Knowing all this--would you still advise that I do a new repair using the CD
with SP2? Or should I leave it alone unless problems arise?

Ken.

The choice is yours. The old maxim, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
may apply. If your system is stable then it may well be best left alone.
I was just offering my experiences, your mileage obviously has varied.



If you do decide on an additional repair install with sp2 of course make
sure you backup all your stuff first just in case. If it was me, I'd
probably do it, but that's just my curious nature at work and I always
do such things on experimental boxen, not production machines that I
rely on.

Steve N.

 

[Jonny]

Jonny,

I must respectfully disagree on that point, or else I have done the
impossible, which, of course, isn't possible.

I /did/ do a repair of my fully up-to-date XP SP2 with an XP SP1 "new
computer only" installation disk, using my original product serial nymber.
It was a repair by force, as described in this thread, and I had to let a
lot of files go uninstalled, but it went through, and I booted successfully
into XP SP1 after the repair. All the previous program settings were intact.
All I had to do was to install the new MB chipset drivers and the viseo card
drivers. Then I updated to SP2 using the MS developers full download option
(about 250meg) rather than the update mode which wouldn't work. After that,
it was fine.

If you read through this thread you'll see that my question had to do with
residual registry entries relating to similar-appearing inf files for the
Intel chipsets which were not identical, thereby potentially "confusing" XP
on a delayed basis, as my ASUS tech had warned me. But as of today, 14 days
after the new MB and the XP repair, everything appears to be working
perfectly. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

BTW, I have since created an XP installation disk with SP2 "slipstreamed"
(there is a program out there to do that called "Autostreamer") which should
help the next time around.

Ken

Have used autostreamer myself and made a new XP install CD w/SP2. Was
unaware of a forced repair installation procedure, thanks.

You still got lots of unneeded luggage ala courtesy promotion by MVPs. I
would have done a new (clean) install of XP. Have fun.

 

[Ron Martell]

Thats the ticket,a clean install is the only way to go with a new board....

Balderdash. Hogwash. and Malarkey.

The last time I did a clean install on my own computer was with WFWG
3.11 in 1993. And that was at least 5 motherboards ago.

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Balderdash. Hogwash. and Malarkey.

No surprise there. It's Andrew E you're replying to. Balderdash, Hogwash,
and Malarkey are his specialties.