Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed?

[Elle]

Instead you got a small Micro ATX board with no
AGP slot (they were in common use even back then) and only 2 PCI slots. Even
so that board can still do for your needs.
This card is fine for web browsing and MS Word and even a little photo
touching up in PictureIt

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E168141024
47 but

absolutely not a gaming card. Another stick of 128mb PC133 SDRAM will make
the PC perform a lot better - I take you use Win98 or ME?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E168201361
14

Win ME.

Thank you for the links. I am familiar with newegg and like
to use it to at least price compare with what's local
(CompUSA, Circuit City, a few small shops).

Sorry, I know helping someone diagnose computer problems via
a newsgroup is very difficult.

 

[Harkhof]

machine new life.

Hark, yes, both PCI slots are open. (I am a no frills
computer user and so have done hardly any upgrading. Over
the years, I have only purchased a new, larger hard drive
and a new, slightly bigger power supply.) I was reading on
this subject of PCI video cards earlier today, and my take
from this reading was that they are not all that effective,
perhaps particularly with a flat-screen monitor.

That may be true, I have no relateable experience regarding PCI and flat
panels. It was, however, my assumption that almost anything is better than
onboard video, especially on older boards.

I do wonder if my fancy LCD flat screen monitor is simply
too much for my simple built-in video adapter to handle any
where near optimally. The sites I read also said such PCI
slot video cards are now hard to find.

I have doubts that
adding more RAM will help much as well. But beat me over the
head that it will, and I'll give it more consideration.

I should have been clearer: it's highly unlikely that RAM will do anything
for your display issues, but it will certainly help with overalll system
performance. And, since RAM is so cheap these days, and since you may well
be inside your case anyway, it would work in your favor to add it. Many say
that adding RAM provides one of the cheaper yet significant ways of
improving system performance. I agree with that assesment. As cheap as it
is, and if you plan on keeping your current machine, there is no reason NOT
to upgrade your RAM.

For the last several hours I have been seriously considering
beginning to build a computer myself.

I highly recommend it. I have been building my own systems since '95 and
would never consider doing otherwise. However, it's not necessarily cheaper
than buying a new system, although you can expect much greater quality by
building it yourself (given that you buy quality parts, which pays off in
the long run).

Background: I have
been generally disgusted with my Gateway for various reasons
starting from the first few days of purchase in 2001
(integrated modem baloney, mostly). At times I wonder if
the micro ATX design of my Gateway Essential 900c hasn't
been a large part of the many blips I've had with this
machine over the years. There simply isn't enough cooling
going on, say. Today I live with a number of pesky little
bugs that seem both hardware and software related. I studied
one of Dan Gookin's books ("Windows for Dummies"?) recently
and it helped, but mostly in confirming that people
generally live with bugs. I reformatted my old hard disc and
reinstalled all my software twice in the last year. (Gookin
actually says that's way overkill.)

I don't play video games or work with serious graphics
programs, other than maybe Microsoft PictureIt and a bit of
editing of digital photos. I avoid downloading any software,
even if it's said to improve things, because it seems like
nine times out of ten, it monkeys with settings and makes
things worse.

My number one need for the internet is stock research. That
so far hasn't required anything fancy by way of hardware or
software. Though some PDF files take way too long to view
via the internet.

Today I started shopping for computer cases and
contemplating whether I could throw my current somewhat mini
but only a year old power supply into a mid size case for an
ATX motherboard,

I would recommend a new power supply. The PS is one of the most important
components in your system, especially for current hardware, which requires
higher and more consistent voltages. Avoid problems and buy a quality PS
from the start.

and move my current hard drive over as
well, etc. Then I could buy a new motherboard, and after a
week of experimenting and prodding, have a much better
machine for maybe $100 tops for the case and I dunno another
$100 for a low level (but superior to my current)
motherboard. Of course the learning experience has value,
too. I am in computers for the long whole. I make my
(humble) living in careful stock picking, yada.

Just be aware that the cost of building your machine snowballs. You'll
discover that one hardware purchase necessitates another HW or SW purchase.

In short, I wonder if I'd be a heckuva lot happier making a
radical change in my computing hardware, for around $200?,
lest I instead throw somewhat more good money (maybe $100 or
so for RAM and a PCI video card) after bad.

I'd be surprised if you could do it for that amount. In replacing the system
you have, You can count on buying a new case, mother board, cpu, RAM, power
supply, video card, possibly a new copy of windows (if your XP disk
[assuming you have XP] came with your system, it is most likely OEM and will
not install on any other machine) and probably more.

I am learning a lot from the pointers here. If anyone can
stand a little more input or commentary, I'm all eyes.

P.S. The graininess comes and goes. I do not think my
inexpensive digital camera could capture the effect, but
that was a good suggestion.

I'm no expert by any means, but I would have to believe that your onboard
video is an issue. Although OBV is better today (Actually, I would not
choose a motherboard even today with OBV), certainly back in 2001, it was
amongst the poorest of video solutions. Perhaps someone could chime in with
the comparison of video quality between your onboard video and PCI regarding
LCD.

Hark

 

[Harkhof]

I'm no expert by any means, but I would have to believe that your onboard
video is an issue. Although OBV is better today (Actually, I would not
choose a motherboard even today with OBV), certainly back in 2001, it was
amongst the poorest of video solutions. Perhaps someone could chime in
with the comparison of video quality between your onboard video and PCI
regarding LCD.

Hark

What I've left out here that was included in Kony's post is: Try the newest
drivers first. It may indeed help. But even if it does and you plan on
keeping the machine, I highly recommend adding RAM.

Hark

 

[Elle]

I highly recommend it. I have been building my own systems since '95 and
would never consider doing otherwise. However, it's not necessarily cheaper
than buying a new system, although you can expect much greater quality by
building it yourself (given that you buy quality parts, which pays off in
the long run).
Just be aware that the cost of building your machine snowballs. You'll
discover that one hardware purchase necessitates another HW or SW purchase.

I'd be surprised if you could do it for that amount. In replacing the system
you have, You can count on buying a new case, mother board, cpu, RAM, power
supply, video card, possibly a new copy of windows (if your XP disk
[assuming you have XP] came with your system, it is most likely OEM and will
not install on any other machine) and probably more.

I'm no expert by any means, but I would have to believe that your onboard
video is an issue. Although OBV is better today (Actually, I would not
choose a motherboard even today with OBV), certainly back in 2001, it was
amongst the poorest of video solutions. Perhaps someone could chime in with
the comparison of video quality between your onboard video and PCI regarding
LCD.

Hark and anyone else who's been able to stand this saga this
long:

Over the last year the aggravation (to the eyes;
troubleshooting; the crashes; the backing up of files and
reformatting etc.) has been so great and so unassignable (at
least to me, a computer peon) that I decided this morning a
massive upgrade, one way or another, was in order. I tried
shops in the past but never got good results. Gookin of the
PCs for Dummies books also casts aspersions on them: They
reformat and reinstall, period.

After checking prices online and in person for motherboards,
cpus, cases, and power supplies; talking it over with an
offline friend; then checking out the cost of assembly at a
PCClub shop, I did indeed quickly come to the conclusion
(like you noted, Hark) that it was more cost efficient to
buy some kind of package. Still, for the first time in some
14 years of owning computers, tomorrow I will have a
computer case and power supply; CPU; and motherboard without
a big name on it. (Screw the bastards at HP and definitely
at Gateway.) I get some basic peripherals (hard drive, CD
rom) too. My SDRAM will be doubled tomorrow to 256 Megabye,
though the technician was urging me to pay $35 for another
256 Mb. She too said I would notice the difference. (I have
been hearing this from others for years but had doubts for
various reasons. I simply don't use intensive
applications... yada yada. I hope I am pleasantly surprised
to learn I was wrong.)

I'll take my current hard drive and turn it into a slave, I
think, or make my current computer into a backup computer,
for word processing and spreadsheeting. My power supply will
double. I will have Windows XP (versus my old computer's
Windows ME).

I suspect Windows ME is not the greatest version and may be
the cause of other problems. I was also having simple
power-up problems at first startup. And even my fairly new
power supply makes odd noises under changing loads at times.
All of these I have troubleshot with the aid of manuals and
internet resources. Kony, I see now that my old Windows CDs
are system restore CDs. The technician today made a
distinction between these, too, informing me my new computer
would come with the OEM Windows XP discs, licensing info,
etc.

The tech also said that modern onboard video adapters had
come a long way in the last few years. Still, my new mobo
has an AGP slot. (And not that the tech knows more than any
of you. Talk seems a little cheap in this business... )

I was disappointed I wouldn't be building this all myself,
but at least I will set up the slave-master hard drive
configuration on my own, and so keep building on this skimpy
knowledge base of mine. I'm paying $300 (before taxes, and
with one of those doggone nuisance rebates thrown in) for
all this. That is less than what I felt I was looking at for
buying the parts individually.

Parts quality will be something I will learn. I didn't buy
top of the line, obviously. If I get four years out of this
next computer, with a lot less aggravation, I think I'll
ultimately be pleased. Or else resigned that "quality" is
not what the computer industry has in mind for much of its
business right now.

The first step is admission. I know I've been one cynical
customer here. You all who post here to help others: Great
community service. I did learn more about computer design
from this thread. Forward.

 

[kony]

Many companies like Gateway, Tiny, Time etc ..... built PCs with fast
processors but cheap and nasty motherboards to save production costs of
course. A decent motherboard at the time would have had 4 or 5 PCI slots for
you to add upgrades like Sound, Modem, Network or TV cards and an AGP slot
for a decent graphics card. Instead you got a small Micro ATX board with no
AGP slot (they were in common use even back then) and only 2 PCI slots. Even
so that board can still do for your needs.

That's a rather arbitrary conclusion. Gateway has used
fairly decent boards and while an enthusiast who *needs* to
add 4 PCI cards might not like them, for their intended use
they can do fine, not necessarily anything cheap or nasty
about the boards for what they are.

Tiny, I have no idea about theirs.

 

[Andrew]

"Harkhof" <[email protected]> wrote

My SDRAM will be doubled tomorrow to 256 Megabye,
though the technician was urging me to pay $35 for another
256 Mb.

xp calls for 256 minimum. you'll be much better off springing for the extra
and running 512. __much better off.__

 

[Sleepy]

I highly recommend it. I have been building my own systems since '95 and
would never consider doing otherwise. However, it's not necessarily cheaper
than buying a new system, although you can expect much greater quality by
building it yourself (given that you buy quality parts, which pays off in
the long run).
Just be aware that the cost of building your machine snowballs. You'll
discover that one hardware purchase necessitates another HW or SW purchase.

I'd be surprised if you could do it for that amount. In replacing the system
you have, You can count on buying a new case, mother board, cpu, RAM, power
supply, video card, possibly a new copy of windows (if your XP disk
[assuming you have XP] came with your system, it is most likely OEM and will
not install on any other machine) and probably more.

I'm no expert by any means, but I would have to believe that your onboard
video is an issue. Although OBV is better today (Actually, I would not
choose a motherboard even today with OBV), certainly back in 2001, it was
amongst the poorest of video solutions. Perhaps someone could chime in with
the comparison of video quality between your onboard video and PCI regarding
LCD.

Hark and anyone else who's been able to stand this saga this
long:

Over the last year the aggravation (to the eyes;
troubleshooting; the crashes; the backing up of files and
reformatting etc.) has been so great and so unassignable (at
least to me, a computer peon) that I decided this morning a
massive upgrade, one way or another, was in order. I tried
shops in the past but never got good results. Gookin of the
PCs for Dummies books also casts aspersions on them: They
reformat and reinstall, period.

After checking prices online and in person for motherboards,
cpus, cases, and power supplies; talking it over with an
offline friend; then checking out the cost of assembly at a
PCClub shop, I did indeed quickly come to the conclusion
(like you noted, Hark) that it was more cost efficient to
buy some kind of package. Still, for the first time in some
14 years of owning computers, tomorrow I will have a
computer case and power supply; CPU; and motherboard without
a big name on it. (Screw the bastards at HP and definitely
at Gateway.) I get some basic peripherals (hard drive, CD
rom) too. My SDRAM will be doubled tomorrow to 256 Megabye,
though the technician was urging me to pay $35 for another
256 Mb. She too said I would notice the difference. (I have
been hearing this from others for years but had doubts for
various reasons. I simply don't use intensive
applications... yada yada. I hope I am pleasantly surprised
to learn I was wrong.)

I'll take my current hard drive and turn it into a slave, I
think, or make my current computer into a backup computer,
for word processing and spreadsheeting. My power supply will
double. I will have Windows XP (versus my old computer's
Windows ME).

I suspect Windows ME is not the greatest version and may be
the cause of other problems. I was also having simple
power-up problems at first startup. And even my fairly new
power supply makes odd noises under changing loads at times.
All of these I have troubleshot with the aid of manuals and
internet resources. Kony, I see now that my old Windows CDs
are system restore CDs. The technician today made a
distinction between these, too, informing me my new computer
would come with the OEM Windows XP discs, licensing info,
etc.

The tech also said that modern onboard video adapters had
come a long way in the last few years. Still, my new mobo
has an AGP slot. (And not that the tech knows more than any
of you. Talk seems a little cheap in this business... )

I was disappointed I wouldn't be building this all myself,
but at least I will set up the slave-master hard drive
configuration on my own, and so keep building on this skimpy
knowledge base of mine. I'm paying $300 (before taxes, and
with one of those doggone nuisance rebates thrown in) for
all this. That is less than what I felt I was looking at for
buying the parts individually.

Parts quality will be something I will learn. I didn't buy
top of the line, obviously. If I get four years out of this
next computer, with a lot less aggravation, I think I'll
ultimately be pleased. Or else resigned that "quality" is
not what the computer industry has in mind for much of its
business right now.

The first step is admission. I know I've been one cynical
customer here. You all who post here to help others: Great
community service. I did learn more about computer design
from this thread. Forward.

 

[Sleepy]

This case will be $26.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811144098
this motherboard $44.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813123231
this CPU $72.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819104203
heatsink and fan for above $7.49
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835150049
hard drive $48.50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144102
dvd burner $38.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827131010
floppy drive $9.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16821103109
(or re-use the old one?)
512mb DDR memory $38.89
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227037
TOTAL: $287 plus postage

the case is roomy with 350w PSU.
the motherboard is EPOX - decent quality, better than a cheapy PCCHIPS etc..
with onboard graphics and sound for economy but AGP and PCI slots to allow
upgardes to better graphics and sound if required. its not cutting edge kit
but is WAY better than your current stuff - its all decent quality and
should last for years plus you get the satisfaction of putting it together
yourself.

 

[Elle]

Sleepy, thank you very much for doing this work. It will not
go in vain. On the other hand, I have charged my system to
my credit card, and I don't like going back on a purchase
unless I have a really good reason.

For the archives, and to see if there is a "really good
reason" here's a comparison to what I have ordered (to be
picked up in a few hours):

This case will be $26.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E168111440
98
Aspire mid-tower case, 350 watt power supply, shipping is
$16.
My case will be Apex, mid-tower, 300 watt power supply.

this motherboard $44.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E168131232
31
My new one will have AMD S754

this CPU $72.00

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E168191042
03
This is an AMD Sempron 2400+. My new one is an AMD Sempron
2800+. I think these typically differ in price by $20. No
idea if the extra $20 is worth it.

heatsink and fan for above $7.49

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E168351500
49
A "CPU Cooler CM AMD KB 3400+" is coming with my order. I
don't know how this compares. I am not sure if my new case
includes a fan.

hard drive $48.50

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E168221441
02
This is an 80Gb hard drive. A 40 Gb hard drive comes in my
package. I know the manufacturer is important, but I didn't
bother to get it, because to subtract if off the package
meant I'd lose my rebate, and I figured it was time to start
using a master slave arrangement. My current hard drive is a
100 Gb Seagate and will become the slave or master.

dvd burner $38.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E168271310
10
Coulda added this for $30 more but chose not to.

floppy drive $9.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E168211031
09
(or re-use the old one?)

Right, though I don't think I can connect my old one to my
new rig.

512mb DDR memory $38.89
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E168202270
37
TOTAL: $287 plus postage

the case is roomy with 350w PSU.
the motherboard is EPOX - decent quality, better than a cheapy PCCHIPS etc..
with onboard graphics and sound for economy but AGP and PCI slots to allow
upgardes to better graphics and sound if required. its not cutting edge kit
but is WAY better than your current stuff - its all decent quality and
should last for years plus you get the satisfaction of putting it together
yourself.

This is very helpful. I read a review of the AMD S754
motherboard last night, and it said similar: Nothing snazzy
but quite functional for the home office, non-video games,
user.

In addition, my package comes with Windows XP, with all
documentation and licensing rights. I think that's the
dealbreaker.

So for prices, I think I'm doing okay.

One thing that is eating at me a little: The technician laid
out the cost of buying individual parts and then showed me
the package price, in a brochure. I went out for lunch to
think about it and decided I was ready to take the plunge. I
returned to the PCClub shop and said I wanted the package.
The tech checked and said it would take 1.5 hours to load
Windows XP. There was some mumbling with the manager and
they informed me they were giving me a floor model. I said,
"So it's been used, right?" She speaks very quickly and says
yes, she'd give me a discount but then it would negate my
rebate. She didn't ask if I was cool with any of this. To my
discredit, I didn't have the guts to ask what the hell was
going on. Or I figured no big deal. Today at pickup I will
make a point about this, asking why it was I couldn't have a
brand new system, and that, no, I don't think it's cool to
offer me nothing in return for a floor model. (I really hate
waiting for rebates to arrive by mail, as well, and should
have asked how much they'd take off the top price, in lieu
of the stupid rebate.)

If I knew this was like, say, buying a 2006 automobile at
the dealer's with 2000 miles on it, I'd be more assertive.
Any comments as to whether that's fair, or whether that's
really not a cool shop practice?

 

[John]

If I knew this was like, say, buying a 2006 automobile at
the dealer's with 2000 miles on it, I'd be more assertive.
Any comments as to whether that's fair, or whether that's
really not a cool shop practice?

Have no idea how much you are really paying etc but usually rebates
are LARGE on systems so its a big deal.

For instance on most components I buy the rebate discount can range
from 80% discount to as little as 10% but on a system I bought
recently an AMD 754 socket the net cost was $199 but the rebate was
$250 !

If I had lost the rebate I would have had to get a HUGE discount on
the price to make it even close to being a decent deal.

If you are losing a $50 rebate for say a $50 or greater discount then
it may be worth it to you since some people dont like discounts.

But if you are losing a $100-250 rebate for a $50 or 75 discount
FORGET IT !

Sure rebates are a hassle but if you do everything right youll get it
as long as its a reputable company.

Frankly you should get BOTH. Everyone who buys new is getting the
rebate. The fact its a display model entitles you to a DISCOUNT ON TOP
OF THE REBATE. Thats the way its almost always done in stores that
Ive heard of. Its not a law of course so they an do anything they want
but no way would I take it UNLESS the discount was larger than the
rebate or at least close and if you hate rebates.

Really dont be a jerk to anyone but always be assertive. Dont yell or
scream or accuse anyone of anything or get testy but you always have
the right to cancel or change your mind as long as it reasonable.

There are sales going on all the time and most people buy a system
once in a while so they will be stuck with whatever they buy for at
least a year or two.

 

[kony]

If I knew this was like, say, buying a 2006 automobile at
the dealer's with 2000 miles on it, I'd be more assertive.
Any comments as to whether that's fair, or whether that's
really not a cool shop practice?

It's hard to say. Some shops pre-assemble systems and then
set one out, which isn't so bad until it's been running a
year like that, then it's had 1 year of it's life already
elapsed. I doubt that's the case here though since there
was a distinction made of it being a floor model.

You should get a discount. I was too lazy to read the
details of the final cost but 30% off seems reasonable,
maybe... hard to know exactly what they're offering, what
the history of it was.

 

[Elle]

Have no idea how much you are really paying etc but usually rebates
are LARGE on systems so its a big deal.

The package costs $350. I get a $50 rebate, so my total cost
ultimately is $300.

For instance on most components I buy the rebate discount can range
from 80% discount to as little as 10% but on a system I bought
recently an AMD 754 socket the net cost was $199 but the rebate was
$250 !

Nice!

I am aware that, generally speaking, the rebates can be
humongous. The hard drive I bought earlier this year cost
half the retail price, taking into account the rebate.

If I had lost the rebate I would have had to get a HUGE discount on
the price to make it even close to being a decent deal.

If you are losing a $50 rebate for say a $50 or greater discount then
it may be worth it to you since some people dont like discounts.

But if you are losing a $100-250 rebate for a $50 or 75 discount
FORGET IT !

Sure rebates are a hassle but if you do everything right youll get it
as long as its a reputable company.

I agree. So far I've had only one bad experience with
rebates. Had to hound Samsung and BestBuy last year to get a
rebate to me. BestBuy was very good. Samsung rebate people
were idiots.

Frankly you should get BOTH. Everyone who buys new is getting the
rebate. The fact its a display model entitles you to a DISCOUNT ON TOP
OF THE REBATE. Thats the way its almost always done in stores that
Ive heard of. Its not a law of course so they an do anything they want
but no way would I take it UNLESS the discount was larger than the
rebate or at least close and if you hate rebates.

Really dont be a jerk to anyone but always be assertive. Dont yell or
scream or accuse anyone of anything or get testy but you always have
the right to cancel or change your mind as long as it

reasonable.

Yes. I appreciate your sharing this experience and will say
something today at pickup. I will not go in assuming the
deal is done.

 

[Elle]

It's hard to say. Some shops pre-assemble systems and then
set one out, which isn't so bad until it's been running a
year like that, then it's had 1 year of it's life already
elapsed. I doubt that's the case here though since there
was a distinction made of it being a floor model.

You should get a discount. I was too lazy to read the
details of the final cost but 30% off seems reasonable,
maybe... hard to know exactly what they're offering, what
the history of it was.

Kony, thanks for the input and encouragement to find out
exactly how "used" this system is and so politely argue for
a discount. I don't have serious qualms about backing out
and figure that if they are too difficult about it, it's not
a shop with which I want to do business anyway. I hate
getting that "used car salesmen" feeling from a business
like this. (That is, just as one thinks the deal is sealed,
they toss in something and make it sound inconsequential,
when in fact it might be very significant to one's
decision-making.)

Gotta go.

 

[Sleepy]

*snip* your links were not to specific items so I cant offer specific
comment
on what you picked.

This is very helpful. I read a review of the AMD S754
motherboard last night, and it said similar: Nothing snazzy
but quite functional for the home office, non-video games,
user.

I did look at S754 originally but I didnt see any EPOX boards in that
section so I looked under Socket A - I was basically looking for the very
cheapest decent quality motherboard I could find (avoiding PCCHIPS and
Jetway etc) then go from there. XP2400 or XP2800 - for the needs you've
outlined theres no differance.

In addition, my package comes with Windows XP, with all
documentation and licensing rights. I think that's the
dealbreaker.

I did remember that after I posted!

So for prices, I think I'm doing okay.

One thing that is eating at me a little: The technician laid
out the cost of buying individual parts and then showed me
the package price, in a brochure. I went out for lunch to
think about it and decided I was ready to take the plunge. I
returned to the PCClub shop and said I wanted the package.
The tech checked and said it would take 1.5 hours to load
Windows XP. There was some mumbling with the manager and
they informed me they were giving me a floor model. I said,
"So it's been used, right?" She speaks very quickly and says
yes, she'd give me a discount but then it would negate my
rebate. She didn't ask if I was cool with any of this. To my
discredit, I didn't have the guts to ask what the hell was
going on. Or I figured no big deal. Today at pickup I will
make a point about this, asking why it was I couldn't have a
brand new system, and that, no, I don't think it's cool to
offer me nothing in return for a floor model. (I really hate
waiting for rebates to arrive by mail, as well, and should
have asked how much they'd take off the top price, in lieu
of the stupid rebate.)

If I knew this was like, say, buying a 2006 automobile at
the dealer's with 2000 miles on it, I'd be more assertive.
Any comments as to whether that's fair, or whether that's
really not a cool shop practice?

we dont have rebates in the UK which is simpler I guess. I wouldnt touch a
floor model myself - how long has it been in use and what discount they give
you would be a factor but also is the guarantee affected? if they put
anything on the receipt about it being a floor model and you end up taking
it back in 10 months time will they argue about whether its under guarantee?

hope it goes okay and dont be swayed by a salesman - be sure youre happy
with your decision.

 

[Elle]

*snip* your links were not to specific items so I cant offer specific
comment
on what you picked.

Oopsy; those were your links, and my bad editing. I did not
provide links to the products I have on order.

we dont have rebates in the UK which is simpler I guess. I wouldnt touch a
floor model myself - how long has it been in use and what discount they give
you would be a factor but also is the guarantee affected? if they put
anything on the receipt about it being a floor model and you end up taking
it back in 10 months time will they argue about whether its under guarantee?

hope it goes okay and dont be swayed by a salesman - be sure youre happy
with your decision.

Sounds good. I did speak with the technician/salesperson a
little while ago. I said I didn't want a floor model; that
wasn't what was advertised for the price or what was written
on my order. (My order paperwork says "new system" etc.) She
was pretty cool and said she wasn't going to sell me a floor
model if that's not what I wanted. There is a problem with
the rebate expiring soon while they can't get a new model in
in time. Anyway, so far they're being plenty polite and
cooperating well (once I raised my concern, anyway). We're
working with PC Club headquarters to see if I can get a rain
check on the rebate. I'm watching my refund dates closely.
The technician/salesperson said PC Club's "floor model
discount" is less than $50, and that she certainly had that
in mind as we were refining the details of this purchase
yesterday. So maybe she was trying to slip something under
the wire; maybe she was just hurried. Either way, she's
saying "how high" when I even breathe a moment of "jump"
dissatisfaction, so I'll give them a chance. The staff seem
hard working, and the package does seem reasonably priced
for what I would be getting.

Meanwhile, my current computer is working "good enough"
though another little glitch arose this morning reinforcing
my decision to upgrade massively, one way or another, and
hopefully for no more than around $300.

Your help has been wonderful, giving me plenty of ideas and
a few very good paths to take. Providing links is a great
courtesy. (I try to do this over at the Honda newsgroup,
too.) I have located a second build-it-yourself shop and may
stop by there today, in case I need them as a fallback
position. Though I am definitely considering online. Again,
much appreciated.