Monitor Grainy; VideoCard Needed?

E

Elle

I have a one-year-old Samsung 712n SyncMaster flat monitor.
It's been grainy pretty much from the get-go. I have
adjusted and experimented with the settings many times.
Still, much of the time the display is grainy. Seems to come
and go.

Can someone please advise on whether some sort of video card
would help? I am ignorant on videocards and am starting to
research the matter today.

My computer is a four-year-old no frills Gateway.

Thanks for any ideas.
 
J

John McGaw

Elle said:
I have a one-year-old Samsung 712n SyncMaster flat monitor.
It's been grainy pretty much from the get-go. I have
adjusted and experimented with the settings many times.
Still, much of the time the display is grainy. Seems to come
and go.

Can someone please advise on whether some sort of video card
would help? I am ignorant on videocards and am starting to
research the matter today.

My computer is a four-year-old no frills Gateway.

Thanks for any ideas.

And your video settings are? Are you using the on-board video? And what
do you mean by "grainy" while you are at it? The word could describe a
great many situations from "resolution set to 640X480 and everything
looks blocky" and "colors set to 16 so color contrasts are wrong" to
"the cable is bad so there is actual noise showing up" to ????
 
E

Elle

John McGaw said:
And your video settings are?

1025 x 768 high color.

I set it at 75 hz refresh rate, though that is not the
default. Using the default (which is lower) really bothers
my eyes.

The graininess is present regardless of the resolution. For
example, setting it to 1280 x 1024 doesn't help.
Are you using the on-board video?

I don't know enough to say but will put this in my notes to
research.
And what
do you mean by "grainy" while you are at it?

The display has high and low spots of color? It looks
spotty? The color is irregular to the point it causes eye
strain? I don't know how else to explain it. "Blocky" would
be one way to put it.
The word could describe a
great many situations from "resolution set to 640X480 and everything
looks blocky" and "colors set to 16 so color contrasts are wrong" to
"the cable is bad so there is actual noise showing up" to
????

Related aside: I have replaced the hard drive and power
supply by myself and feel I can again get into the case and
locate and install a video card or whatever, with some
guidance and hints from resources such as this newsgroup.

Thanks again.
 
B

Bill Bradshaw

Elle said:
Related aside: I have replaced the hard drive and power
supply by myself and feel I can again get into the case and
locate and install a video card or whatever, with some
guidance and hints from resources such as this newsgroup.

This is great you are willing to open up your computer case. Do you have a
friend's computer available you could take your monitor to and see how it
displays? If you have a work computer maybe you could take your monitor
into work and hook it up to see how it displays.
 
M

MCheu

1025 x 768 high color.

This may be a potential cause. High colour means 16bit colour
(Ideally, you'd choose "True Colour" for your display). You might get
a slight performance boost using this lower colour setting, but you do
give up some image quality, as the computer has to dither to make up
for those missing colours. Depending on your visual tolerance and the
specific image you've chosen to display, you might notice the
difference or you might not. I guess the effect could be described as
grainy of blotchy.
 
S

Sleepy

Elle said:
I have a one-year-old Samsung 712n SyncMaster flat monitor.
It's been grainy pretty much from the get-go. I have
adjusted and experimented with the settings many times.
Still, much of the time the display is grainy. Seems to come
and go.

Can someone please advise on whether some sort of video card
would help? I am ignorant on videocards and am starting to
research the matter today.

My computer is a four-year-old no frills Gateway.

Thanks for any ideas.
the native resolution is 1280x1024 at 60hz 32bit colour. try it at that and
use the drivers for the monitor - dont leave it as 'default monitor' or
'plug n play'
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor/DiscontinuedModels/MJ17ASSBY.asp
if that doesnt improve it and you have an onboard grphics chip that may be
the problem and you could get a ATI 9250 card quite cheap but fine for
ordinary home use. if you need to get a card then check whether your
motherboard has only PCI slots or also an AGP slot for a graphics card.
 
J

John McGaw

Sleepy said:
the native resolution is 1280x1024 at 60hz 32bit colour. try it at that and
use the drivers for the monitor - dont leave it as 'default monitor' or
'plug n play'
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor/DiscontinuedModels/MJ17ASSBY.asp
if that doesnt improve it and you have an onboard grphics chip that may be
the problem and you could get a ATI 9250 card quite cheap but fine for
ordinary home use. if you need to get a card then check whether your
motherboard has only PCI slots or also an AGP slot for a graphics card.

You beat me to it on that one! Good call and good answer. I knew that
the resolution didn't look right for any sort of semi-modern LCD but it
took me a while to find the actual specs online -- Google is just _too_
generous sometimes. Some LCDs seem to handle interpolation gracefully at
a few resolutions but if you hit one of the bad ones it can get _very_
bad very quickly. I guess the question now is if the OP has onboard
video, will he have enough memory available to be able to hit the
optimum resolution and color depth.
 
E

Elle

John McGaw said:
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor/DiscontinuedModels/M
J17ASSBY.asp

You beat me to it on that one! Good call and good answer. I knew that
the resolution didn't look right for any sort of semi-modern LCD but it
took me a while to find the actual specs online -- Google is just _too_
generous sometimes. Some LCDs seem to handle interpolation gracefully at
a few resolutions but if you hit one of the bad ones it can get _very_
bad very quickly. I guess the question now is if the OP has onboard
video, will he have enough memory available to be able to hit the
optimum resolution and color depth.

As I posted, the display is grainy regardless of whether I
have the monitor at the spec resolution or any other
resolution.

I am experimenting with the other suggestions. I don't have
anyone with a computer to whom I can take my monitor and
test it, but that's a good suggestion and I will keep it in
mind.

Please excuse me if I don't get back with an update for
awhile. It is the usual hit and miss procedure with these
contraptions designed with little logic (Bill Gates gets
full credit), but with kind folks like everyone who
responded offering their experience, the pain of it is eased
somewhat. So thanks again to all.

Or Samsung just makes a lousy product, and it's my fault for
buying cheap.
 
S

Sleepy

Elle said:
As I posted, the display is grainy regardless of whether I
have the monitor at the spec resolution or any other
resolution.

I am experimenting with the other suggestions. I don't have
anyone with a computer to whom I can take my monitor and
test it, but that's a good suggestion and I will keep it in
mind.

Please excuse me if I don't get back with an update for
awhile. It is the usual hit and miss procedure with these
contraptions designed with little logic (Bill Gates gets
full credit), but with kind folks like everyone who
responded offering their experience, the pain of it is eased
somewhat. So thanks again to all.

Or Samsung just makes a lousy product, and it's my fault for
buying cheap.

even cheap LCD monitors arent grainy - the usual problem is ghosting when
scrolling text because of a slow response time. just a thought (since you
mention graphics cards) - are you currently using a DVI to VGA adapter? LCDs
should best be run off a DVI output.
 
E

Elle

Sleepy said:
even cheap LCD monitors arent grainy -

That is helpful to know. I will investigate your suggestion
below. (Sorry, I am not that swift on computer hardware and
software. Again, everything people have posted will be
investigated. Yesterday I learned a video adapter and video
card are one in the same. Yada yada. Gotta get the
vocabulary down.)
the usual problem is ghosting when
scrolling text because of a slow response time. just a thought (since you
mention graphics cards) - are you currently using a DVI to
VGA adapter? LCDs > should best be run off a DVI output.
 
E

Elle

Sleepy said:
to
VGA adapter? LCDs > should best be run off a DVI output.

Under Display Properties... Adapter, the following is
written:

Intel 82810E Graphics Controller
Features: DirectDraw 1.0
Software Version: 4.0
Current Files: i81xdw9x.drv, *vdd, *vflatd, i81xDD.dll

The grainy display is killing my eyes. Anymore clues are
welcome.
 
S

Sleepy

Elle said:
Under Display Properties... Adapter, the following is
written:

Intel 82810E Graphics Controller
Features: DirectDraw 1.0
Software Version: 4.0
Current Files: i81xdw9x.drv, *vdd, *vflatd, i81xDD.dll

The grainy display is killing my eyes. Anymore clues are
welcome.

thats an onboard graphics chip (built into the motherboard) rather than a
graphics card and its a cheap one too. get yourself an ATI graphics card and
fit that. open the case and exmine the motherboard to make sure which slots
you have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerated_Graphics_Port this shows
you what to look for.
AGP is a faster slot for data transfer but some boards with onboards
graphics only had PCI slots (still fast enough for most uses but not great
for gaming).
get the appropiate type of card - a 9250 will set you back around £20 and
will do fine for normal home use .. web browsing ... word ... DVD playback
etc ..
 
E

Elle

Sleepy said:
thats an onboard graphics chip (built into the motherboard) rather than a
graphics card and its a cheap one too. get yourself an ATI graphics card and
fit that. open the case and exmine the motherboard to make sure which slots
you have
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerated_Graphics_Port this
shows
you what to look for.
AGP is a faster slot for data transfer but some boards with onboards
graphics only had PCI slots (still fast enough for most uses but not great
for gaming).
get the appropiate type of card - a 9250 will set you back
around £20

.... about $36 United States right now...
and
will do fine for normal home use .. web browsing ... word .... DVD playback
etc ..

All right, I'm on it. I slipped the cover off and it appears
my Gateway computer has this AGP slot, per what's shown at
the Wikipedia site above. Mine seems to have two slots, but
one has a card of some kind in it all ready. The other is
empty.

I see a 9250 AGP video card at Circuit City online for $80.
If it helps my eyes at all, it's money well spent.

I will update this thread with the outcome.

Thank you.
 
E

Elle

Elle said:
ATI
graphics card and make
sure which slots back
around £20

... about $36 United States right now...
word
... DVD playback

All right, I'm on it. I slipped the cover off and it appears
my Gateway computer has this AGP slot,

Oops, wrong. The slots at which I was looking are for two
168-pin dual inline memory module (DIMM) sockets, for a
total of 256 Megabyte of SDRAM. Currently I have only 128
Megabye of RAM.

All I have are "two half-height 32-bit busmaster PCI v2.2
slots," supporting "3.3-V to 5-V bus interface." I can now
put my fingers on these within the computer case. (Quoted
material is from the spec sheet for my computer, at
Gateway's site.)

I purchased this Gateway Esssential 900c desktop computer
new in 2001 from Gateway. I guess AGP slots hadn't quite
become popular by 2001.
 
K

kony

As I posted, the display is grainy regardless of whether I
have the monitor at the spec resolution or any other
resolution.


The issue was not resolution, it was color depth.
It should be set to "True Color (24 bit)" or "True Color (32
bit)" in Display Properties.

While the suggestion another poster made to buy a graphics
card would yield more performance in gaming, unless your
Intel Integrated video has some kind of defect, another
video card should not be necessary to fix this issue.

I am experimenting with the other suggestions. I don't have
anyone with a computer to whom I can take my monitor and
test it, but that's a good suggestion and I will keep it in
mind.

If you have some personal webspace (like a website that came
with your internet account) you might take a picture of this
grainy screen, post the picture on that webspace and provide
a link there. Seeing exactly what it looks like might help
in diagnosing it. Preferribly the desktop would then have a
wallpaper up that is a full color image with a fair amount
of gradient color (smooth transistions from dark to bright
or another color), but not TOO dark as that would make it
harder to see detail. Also don't compress the image into a
JPEG as that may remove a lot of the grainy detail. GIF
format would add even more grainy detail. PNG or BMP format
picture would work better to show this detail.
 
H

Harkhof

Elle said:
Oops, wrong. The slots at which I was looking are for two
168-pin dual inline memory module (DIMM) sockets, for a
total of 256 Megabyte of SDRAM. Currently I have only 128
Megabye of RAM.

All I have are "two half-height 32-bit busmaster PCI v2.2
slots," supporting "3.3-V to 5-V bus interface." I can now
put my fingers on these within the computer case. (Quoted
material is from the spec sheet for my computer, at
Gateway's site.)

I purchased this Gateway Esssential 900c desktop computer
new in 2001 from Gateway. I guess AGP slots hadn't quite
become popular by 2001.


You can still pick up a PCI card that should boost your performance at a
very reasonable price:

http://tinyurl.com/9kjcv

The above link is to Newegg, but if you have a compusa, bestbuy or something
to that effect, you should be able to find something. That is, of course,
providing that one of the PCI slots you have is open. While you;re at it,
RAM is pretty cheap, but provides a large return in performance. For less
than an $150 (give or take), you could give your old machine new life.

Hark
 
E

Elle

Harkhof said:
You can still pick up a PCI card that should boost your performance at a
very reasonable price:

http://tinyurl.com/9kjcv

The above link is to Newegg, but if you have a compusa, bestbuy or something
to that effect, you should be able to find something. That is, of course,
providing that one of the PCI slots you have is open. While you;re at it,
RAM is pretty cheap, but provides a large return in performance. For less
than an $150 (give or take), you could give your old
machine new life.

Hark, yes, both PCI slots are open. (I am a no frills
computer user and so have done hardly any upgrading. Over
the years, I have only purchased a new, larger hard drive
and a new, slightly bigger power supply.) I was reading on
this subject of PCI video cards earlier today, and my take
from this reading was that they are not all that effective,
perhaps particularly with a flat-screen monitor. At this
point I think I'm screwing my eyes up somewhat and really
should spring for the best video setup possible.

I do wonder if my fancy LCD flat screen monitor is simply
too much for my simple built-in video adapter to handle any
where near optimally. The sites I read also said such PCI
slot video cards are now hard to find. I have doubts that
adding more RAM will help much as well. But beat me over the
head that it will, and I'll give it more consideration.

For the last several hours I have been seriously considering
beginning to build a computer myself. Background: I have
been generally disgusted with my Gateway for various reasons
starting from the first few days of purchase in 2001
(integrated modem baloney, mostly). At times I wonder if
the micro ATX design of my Gateway Essential 900c hasn't
been a large part of the many blips I've had with this
machine over the years. There simply isn't enough cooling
going on, say. Today I live with a number of pesky little
bugs that seem both hardware and software related. I studied
one of Dan Gookin's books ("Windows for Dummies"?) recently
and it helped, but mostly in confirming that people
generally live with bugs. I reformatted my old hard disc and
reinstalled all my software twice in the last year. (Gookin
actually says that's way overkill.)

I don't play video games or work with serious graphics
programs, other than maybe Microsoft PictureIt and a bit of
editing of digital photos. I avoid downloading any software,
even if it's said to improve things, because it seems like
nine times out of ten, it monkeys with settings and makes
things worse.

My number one need for the internet is stock research. That
so far hasn't required anything fancy by way of hardware or
software. Though some PDF files take way too long to view
via the internet.

Today I started shopping for computer cases and
contemplating whether I could throw my current somewhat mini
but only a year old power supply into a mid size case for an
ATX motherboard, and move my current hard drive over as
well, etc. Then I could buy a new motherboard, and after a
week of experimenting and prodding, have a much better
machine for maybe $100 tops for the case and I dunno another
$100 for a low level (but superior to my current)
motherboard. Of course the learning experience has value,
too. I am in computers for the long whole. I make my
(humble) living in careful stock picking, yada.

In short, I wonder if I'd be a heckuva lot happier making a
radical change in my computing hardware, for around $200?,
lest I instead throw somewhat more good money (maybe $100 or
so for RAM and a PCI video card) after bad.

I am learning a lot from the pointers here. If anyone can
stand a little more input or commentary, I'm all eyes.

P.S. The graininess comes and goes. I do not think my
inexpensive digital camera could capture the effect, but
that was a good suggestion.
 
K

kony

I do wonder if my fancy LCD flat screen monitor is simply
too much for my simple built-in video adapter to handle any
where near optimally.

No, that is not a problem.
The sites I read also said such PCI
slot video cards are now hard to find.

They're not "as" common but any larger computer parts store
on the internet is bound to have a few.
I have doubts that
adding more RAM will help much as well. But beat me over the
head that it will, and I'll give it more consideration.

No, it will not help at all.

For the last several hours I have been seriously considering
beginning to build a computer myself. Background: I have
been generally disgusted with my Gateway for various reasons
starting from the first few days of purchase in 2001
(integrated modem baloney, mostly). At times I wonder if
the micro ATX design of my Gateway Essential 900c hasn't
been a large part of the many blips I've had with this
machine over the years. There simply isn't enough cooling
going on, say.

Doubtful, either it's overheating or it isn't.

Most often the problem is a lot of junk installed by the
OEM, or really old drivers. A clean install of windows,
from an original Windows disc, not an OEM factory restore
that reloads all the same junk, plus the newest drivers from
the respective chipset manufacturers rather than those from
the OEM, will often resolve issues.

On the other hand like any system, if it ages and gets
clogged with dust it'll need cleaned out, and on a mATX
there are some more significant areas like the power supply
intake and exhaust area as it might even be the only fan in
the whole case.
Today I live with a number of pesky little
bugs that seem both hardware and software related. I studied
one of Dan Gookin's books ("Windows for Dummies"?) recently
and it helped, but mostly in confirming that people
generally live with bugs. I reformatted my old hard disc and
reinstalled all my software twice in the last year. (Gookin
actually says that's way overkill.)

It is useful IF the original drivers and software were sound
and became corrupt. Otherwise, the most gain comes from
newer drivers and software... you really have to take each
specific issue and address individually instead of lumping
them all together as "little bugs".

I don't play video games or work with serious graphics
programs, other than maybe Microsoft PictureIt and a bit of
editing of digital photos. I avoid downloading any software,
even if it's said to improve things, because it seems like
nine times out of ten, it monkeys with settings and makes
things worse.

Because of this, you aren't likely to need a new video card.

Today I started shopping for computer cases and
contemplating whether I could throw my current somewhat mini
but only a year old power supply into a mid size case for an
ATX motherboard, and move my current hard drive over as
well, etc. Then I could buy a new motherboard, and after a
week of experimenting and prodding, have a much better
machine for maybe $100 tops for the case and I dunno another
$100 for a low level (but superior to my current)
motherboard. Of course the learning experience has value,
too. I am in computers for the long whole. I make my
(humble) living in careful stock picking, yada.

The case itself is not likely the problem, and possibly not
the motherboard either. Still, if you wanted to upgrade,
faster parts can easily need more power and thus the power
supply may need replaced too, and just replacing the
motherboard without a clear need to do so is somewhat
pointless for your needs, unless it were to facilitate a
faster CPU or more memory.

In short, I wonder if I'd be a heckuva lot happier making a
radical change in my computing hardware, for around $200?,
lest I instead throw somewhat more good money (maybe $100 or
so for RAM and a PCI video card) after bad.

Not knowing all the specifics of your system it's a bit hard
to put out a ballpark cost but closer to $320 might be more
realistic.

$80 case & power
$80 motherboard w/integrated video
$80 cpu
$80 1GB memory

Then again, for your general uses you might gain the most
from a hard drive upgrade rather than the other parts, and
if you had a lot of OEM junk installed into the operating
system, geting rid of a lot of it.



Have you checked the (monitor) cable attachment points on
the system and monitor? Wondering if it's just a loose
cable.
 
S

Sleepy

Elle said:
For the last several hours I have been seriously considering
beginning to build a computer myself. Background: I have
been generally disgusted with my Gateway for various reasons
starting from the first few days of purchase in 2001
(integrated modem baloney, mostly). At times I wonder if
the micro ATX design of my Gateway Essential 900c hasn't
been a large part of the many blips I've had with this
machine over the years. There simply isn't enough cooling
going on, say. Today I live with a number of pesky little
bugs that seem both hardware and software related. I studied
one of Dan Gookin's books ("Windows for Dummies"?) recently
and it helped, but mostly in confirming that people
generally live with bugs. I reformatted my old hard disc and
reinstalled all my software twice in the last year. (Gookin
actually says that's way overkill.)

I don't play video games or work with serious graphics
programs, other than maybe Microsoft PictureIt and a bit of
editing of digital photos. I avoid downloading any software,
even if it's said to improve things, because it seems like
nine times out of ten, it monkeys with settings and makes
things worse.

My number one need for the internet is stock research. That
so far hasn't required anything fancy by way of hardware or
software. Though some PDF files take way too long to view
via the internet.

Today I started shopping for computer cases and
contemplating whether I could throw my current somewhat mini
but only a year old power supply into a mid size case for an
ATX motherboard, and move my current hard drive over as
well, etc. Then I could buy a new motherboard, and after a
week of experimenting and prodding, have a much better
machine for maybe $100 tops for the case and I dunno another
$100 for a low level (but superior to my current)
motherboard. Of course the learning experience has value,
too. I am in computers for the long whole. I make my
(humble) living in careful stock picking, yada.

In short, I wonder if I'd be a heckuva lot happier making a
radical change in my computing hardware, for around $200?,
lest I instead throw somewhat more good money (maybe $100 or
so for RAM and a PCI video card) after bad.

I am learning a lot from the pointers here. If anyone can
stand a little more input or commentary, I'm all eyes.

P.S. The graininess comes and goes. I do not think my
inexpensive digital camera could capture the effect, but
that was a good suggestion.

Many companies like Gateway, Tiny, Time etc ..... built PCs with fast
processors but cheap and nasty motherboards to save production costs of
course. A decent motherboard at the time would have had 4 or 5 PCI slots for
you to add upgrades like Sound, Modem, Network or TV cards and an AGP slot
for a decent graphics card. Instead you got a small Micro ATX board with no
AGP slot (they were in common use even back then) and only 2 PCI slots. Even
so that board can still do for your needs.
This card is fine for web browsing and MS Word and even a little photo
touching up in PictureIt
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102447 but
absolutely not a gaming card. Another stick of 128mb PC133 SDRAM will make
the PC perform a lot better - I take you use Win98 or ME?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820136114
 
E

Elle

kony said:
Most often the problem is a lot of junk installed by the
OEM, or really old drivers. A clean install of windows,
from an original Windows disc, not an OEM factory restore
that reloads all the same junk, plus the newest drivers from
the respective chipset manufacturers rather than those from
the OEM, will often resolve issues.

I don't know if what came with this Gateway computer new in
2001 is an "original Windows disc" or "an OEM factory
restore." As I mentioned earlier, I reformatted the original
hard drive, and re-installed everything, a few months ago. I
also did this again with a brand new hard drive. I didn't
use any "restore" feature of the software.

I have cleaned the case (vacuumed, Q-tipped with rubbing
alcohol certain parts with obvious dust on them) a couple
of times in the last 12 months. In addition, the hard drive
is new as of a few months ago.
It is useful IF the original drivers and software were sound
and became corrupt. Otherwise, the most gain comes from
newer drivers and software... you really have to take each
specific issue and address individually instead of lumping
them all together as "little bugs".

Yup. Each bug has some obscure cause.
Have you checked the (monitor) cable attachment points on
the system and monitor? Wondering if it's just a loose
cable.

Yes, I tightened both ends the other day.

I realize this is likely impossible to troubleshoot from
afar and appreciate your efforts.
 

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