Modeling tool to use with VS.NET 2005?

[la.rodriguezcastro]

Hi,

I'm starting a new project in VS.NET 2005 and I've found that Rational
XDE is not working with VS.NET 2005. I think XDE is a very good UML
desing tool, but I think IBM is droping it's VS.NET 2005.

So, my question is, what Modeling tool are you using with VS.NET 2005?
Here are some things I've tried.
· Rational XDE: The best in VS.NET 2003. Doesn't work in 2005.
· Visio: Good to start a high level UML modeling, but useless once the
development team starts to code because of the no-integration with the
IDE.
· Visual-Paradigm SDE: I've not been able to make it run properly with
VS.NET 2005. It works well with VS.NET 2003. Not as good as Rational
XDE, but good enought.
· MDG - www.sparxsystems.com/vsip/: It hasn't a good IDE integration.
....

Here is what I think is essential in a modeling tool:
· Support for the basic diagrams: Class diagrams, Secuence Diagrams,
Use Case Diagrams
· On-demand Code synchronization: Without it any desing, no matters
what good it is, will be useless once the development starts. VS.NET
has a no-so-bad class designer, but it works real-time only, so the
architect can not design anything while a developer is working
(check-out) with the implied classes.

What are you using? Could someone point me to a decent Modeling tool?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kevin Spencer]

How about Microsoft Visio?

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Professional Numbskull

This is, by definition, not that.

Hi,

I'm starting a new project in VS.NET 2005 and I've found that Rational
XDE is not working with VS.NET 2005. I think XDE is a very good UML
desing tool, but I think IBM is droping it's VS.NET 2005.

So, my question is, what Modeling tool are you using with VS.NET 2005?
Here are some things I've tried.
· Rational XDE: The best in VS.NET 2003. Doesn't work in 2005.
· Visio: Good to start a high level UML modeling, but useless once the
development team starts to code because of the no-integration with the
IDE.
· Visual-Paradigm SDE: I've not been able to make it run properly with
VS.NET 2005. It works well with VS.NET 2003. Not as good as Rational
XDE, but good enought.
· MDG - www.sparxsystems.com/vsip/: It hasn't a good IDE integration.
....

Here is what I think is essential in a modeling tool:
· Support for the basic diagrams: Class diagrams, Secuence Diagrams,
Use Case Diagrams
· On-demand Code synchronization: Without it any desing, no matters
what good it is, will be useless once the development starts. VS.NET
has a no-so-bad class designer, but it works real-time only, so the
architect can not design anything while a developer is working
(check-out) with the implied classes.

What are you using? Could someone point me to a decent Modeling tool?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Guest]

One of the three parts of VS 2005 Team System is the Team System for
Architects. I have not yet worked with it, but as I understand it is
supposed to do what you are looking for.

Jav

 

[Ingvar Nilsen]

· MDG - www.sparxsystems.com/vsip/: It hasn't a good IDE integration.

What do you mean with this, what is important for you here?
I am in exactly the same situation as you, looking for a decent tool.
I have used Enterprise Architect (Sparx) for several years (Delphi),
but have not tested the newest version, and not tested MDG.

What is important for me is being able to both forward engineer and
reverse engineer code <--> design.
And equal important - a snappy and fast UML designer. Enterprise
Architect does not satisfy the last part as much as I want, but it is
very reasonable, allows plug-ins and so on, so all in all I have been
satisfied with it.

 

[la.rodriguezcastro]

Kevin Spencer ha escrito:
Hi Kevin,
Thank you for your response.
The problem with Visio is that it does not (or I have been unable to
find the way to...) synchronize model with code and viceversa. So you
can make a very good design that is completly useless once the
development process begins.
With a tool like Rational XDE you could make a "evolutive" design,
so you can design a sub-system of your entire application, let the
developers start to code and continue with your design. And, in any
moment synchronize with the updated code, update the model with new
functionality... and so on. So, it's a mode "dynamic" design aproach
than the conventional (and not very real-life) first-design and
later-develop.

 

[la.rodriguezcastro]

Hi Jav,
Thanks for your response.

Not exactly. With Team System you have a class designer. But it has
some problems:
· It's real-time designer. So if you want to add a new method to a
class you must have it check-out from the source-code control, so the
developers can't work with this file... or you trust "very" much the
combine funcionality of team foundation server, and I don't 8·)
· This is not a "true" designer (no matters UML or DSL), so you can't
design estereotipe-relations (uses, ...), "link" other module classes,
and you don't have Secuence Diagrams. So it's not very usefull.

Jav ha escrito:

 

[la.rodriguezcastro]

Hi Ingvar,

I've tested EA too, but I've not been able to make it work correctly.
I've heard a lot about it, so I think I'll give it a new oportunity.
These are the key functionalities that I'm looking for:
· Integrated with the IDE: So it can handle Check-outs, it's under
source control, and it's easier to use.
· Full synchronization: So you can go model->code, code->model and
code<->model (mix changes in model and code). Rational XDE did it very
well.
· Decent Use Case and Secuence Diagram implementation. I don't need
Secuence Diagram Synchronization.
· Decent cross-project and Framework support, so you can add "linked"
classes in any project diagram.

Have you tested some other software?

 

[Ingvar Nilsen]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

Hi Rodriguez!

I've tested EA too, but I've not been able to make it work correctly.

I am not sure what you mean here. For me, it works pretty well, both
with Delphi code (Delphi Pascal) and with C#.

I've heard a lot about it, so I think I'll give it a new oportunity.

What I really like about it is that it can be configured in almost any
way, almost any option or feature is configurable.

These are the key functionalities that I'm looking for:
· Integrated with the IDE: So it can handle Check-outs, it's under
source control, and it's easier to use.

To me, this is not interesting at this stage (maybe later)

· Full synchronization: So you can go model->code, code->model and
code<->model (mix changes in model and code). Rational XDE did it very
well.

Agreed, this is crucial.

· Decent Use Case and Secuence Diagram implementation.
Agreed


I don't need Secuence Diagram Synchronization.

This depends on what you mean. To me, sequence diagrams are the most
important diagrams when I start coding, and even more important when I
come back to my project later and have forgotten how it works.
However, real synchronisation is difficult / impossible to achieve. For
me, it is enough when method and parameter names are updated correctly.

· Decent cross-project and Framework support, so you can add "linked"
classes in any project diagram.

Uh oh, this is rather advanced
But thinking of it, I understand your need, and I really would like
this myself. I do not know to what extent EA has this in the latest
version.

Have you tested some other software?

Yes, I ran a test on several 12 months ago, but actually ended up with
Enterprise Architect! My main complaint regarding the other software
was that it was bloated (slooow) and overloaded with stuff I did not
need.

What I want (and that EA does not really satisfy) is a UML drawing tool
I can use from day 1, just as a simple point and click tool, to make
sketches. First later I need the code integration and so. I have tested
Visio, it is really snappy for the first part, but then it does not
support Delphi and so on - so back to EA again.
I really need to give the latest version of EA a test run.

 

[Ingvar Nilsen]

Rodriguez, there is a tool called Together, I believe Borland owns this
now. This is used in Delphi, and I believe it is available for Visual
Studio too.

This may be a very good tool, I believe so, I assume however that the
price is way higher than for Enterprise Architect.

I have used this a little in Delphi, just testing. And it looked very
good. But never tested it in Visual Studio.

 

[Kevin Spencer]

I think you're right. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see that happening
in the next version. They have been moving closer to that goal, but how
close is definitely an unknown.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Professional Numbskull

This is, by definition, not that.


Kevin Spencer ha escrito:
Hi Kevin,
Thank you for your response.
The problem with Visio is that it does not (or I have been unable to
find the way to...) synchronize model with code and viceversa. So you
can make a very good design that is completly useless once the
development process begins.
With a tool like Rational XDE you could make a "evolutive" design,
so you can design a sub-system of your entire application, let the
developers start to code and continue with your design. And, in any
moment synchronize with the updated code, update the model with new
functionality... and so on. So, it's a mode "dynamic" design aproach
than the conventional (and not very real-life) first-design and
later-develop.

 

[la.rodriguezcastro]

Thank you very much.

Yes, I was thinking in Together too. I've let it appart some months ago
because it's code synchronization is real-time (so you need to check
out any class you're goint to modify), but the rest of its functionlity
was good. I think I'll give it another try 8·)

Thank you

Ingvar Nilsen ha escrito: