Mismatched Memory -- could this be my problem?


S

Stan Hilliard

Could mismatched memory modules be the reason why my computer freezes
up with some programs? The SIW utility tells me that my two memory
modules don't seem to be matched. One is DDR and the other is DDR2.
The specs for my ABIT KU8 motherboard call for DDR, not DDR2, if that
makes a difference. Here is what the ISW utility shows?

MEMORY SUMMARY
Maximum Capacity 1024 MBytes
Maximum Memory Module Size 4096
Memory Slots 2
Error Correction None
DRAM Frequency 163.6 MHz <--- should be 200.07?
Memory Timings 3-3-3-7 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

CAPACITY
Slot1 1536MB <--- wrong for KU8?
Slot2 1024MB

MEMORY TYPE
Slot1 DDR2 (PC3200) <--- wrong for KU8?
Slot2 DDR (PC3200)

SPEED
Slot1 200 MHz (DDR2 400) <--- wrong for KU8?
Slot2 200 MHZ

SUPPORTED FREQUENCIES MHz
Slot1 133.3, 166.7, 200.0
Slot2 166.7, 200.0

MEMORY TIMINGS (neither module seems to match the memory summary)
Slot1 2-2-2-6-8 at 133.3 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Slot1 3-3-3-7-10 at 166.7 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Slot1 4-3-3-8-11 at 200.0 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Slot2 2-3-3-7-0 at 166.7 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Slot2 3-3-3-8-0 at 200.0 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)

Should I replace one of the modules?

Stan Hilliard
 
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P

peter

its physically impossible to place DDR2 memory in a DDR slot.
I suspect your SIW utility is giving you the wrong information

try downloading and running CPU-Z
and then post back with what that utility tells you.
http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

peter
 
S

Stan Hilliard

Could mismatched memory modules be the reason why my computer freezes
its physically impossible to place DDR2 memory in a DDR slot.
I suspect your SIW utility is giving you the wrong information

try downloading and running CPU-Z
and then post back with what that utility tells you.
http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php
peter

Thanks Peter,
I ran CPU-Z and here are some of the results:

ON THE MEMORY TAB ==============
Type DDR
Size 2048 MBytes
DRAM Frequency 163.6 MHz
FSB:DRAM CPR/15
CAS# Latency (CL) 2.5 clocks
RAS# to CAS# (tRCD) 3 clocks
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 3 clocks
Cycle Time (tDAS) 7 clocks
Bank Cycle Time (tRC) 10 clocks
Command Rate (CR) 1T
DRAM icle Timer 16 clocks

ON THE SPD TAB: =================
SLOT 1: Module Size: 1024 MBytes
SLOT 2: Module Size: 320 MBytes <--- ?

SLOT 1: Max Bandwidth PD3200 (200 MHz)
SLOT 2: Max Bandwidth N/A <--- ?

SLOT 1: Manufacturer: N/A
SLOT 2: Manufacturer: Nanya Technology

SLOT 1: Part Number 16VDDT6464AG-3
SLOT 2: Part Number M2UUG64DD8HB1G-5T

SLOT 1: Serial number FF24BAA0
SLOT 2: Serial number 456E0203

TIMINGS TABLE: (JEDEC#1, JEDEC#2, JEDEC#3)

SLOT 1: frequency 133 MHz, 166 MHz, 200 MHz
SLOT 2: frequency 166 MHz, 0 MHz <--- ?

SLOT 1: CAS# Latency 2.0, 2.5, 3.0
SLOT 2: CAS# Latency 2.5, 3.0

SLOT 1: RAS# to CAS# 2, 3, 3
SLOT 2: RAS# to CAS# 3, 1

SLOT 1: RAS# Precharge 2, 3, 3
SLOT 2: RAS# Precharge 3, 1

SLOT 1: tRAS 6, 7, 8
SLOT 2: tRAS 7, 1

SLOT 1: Voltage 2.5v, 2.5v, 2.5v
SLOT 2: Voltage 2.5v, 2.5v, 2.5v

Those are the results of analysis by CPU-Z . I note that with SIW it
looked to me like the problem was with the module in slot 1, while
with CPU-Z it looks like the problem is in slot 2.

Stan Hilliard
 
P

Paul

Stan said:
Could mismatched memory modules be the reason why my computer freezes
up with some programs? The SIW utility tells me that my two memory
modules don't seem to be matched. One is DDR and the other is DDR2.
The specs for my ABIT KU8 motherboard call for DDR, not DDR2, if that
makes a difference. Here is what the ISW utility shows?

MEMORY SUMMARY
Maximum Capacity 1024 MBytes
Maximum Memory Module Size 4096
Memory Slots 2
Error Correction None
DRAM Frequency 163.6 MHz <--- should be 200.07?
Memory Timings 3-3-3-7 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

CAPACITY
Slot1 1536MB <--- wrong for KU8?
Slot2 1024MB

MEMORY TYPE
Slot1 DDR2 (PC3200) <--- wrong for KU8?
Slot2 DDR (PC3200)

SPEED
Slot1 200 MHz (DDR2 400) <--- wrong for KU8?
Slot2 200 MHZ

SUPPORTED FREQUENCIES MHz
Slot1 133.3, 166.7, 200.0
Slot2 166.7, 200.0

MEMORY TIMINGS (neither module seems to match the memory summary)
Slot1 2-2-2-6-8 at 133.3 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Slot1 3-3-3-7-10 at 166.7 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Slot1 4-3-3-8-11 at 200.0 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Slot2 2-3-3-7-0 at 166.7 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Slot2 3-3-3-8-0 at 200.0 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)

Should I replace one of the modules?

Stan Hilliard

Your SIW information appears to be total crap (i.e. 1536 in one slot???)

The memory bus can only run at one frequency at a time. It only
runs with one set of memory timings. The program CPUZ may make
this more obvious to you ( http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php , and
use the "not installed" version for a quick look).

The BIOS decides what to do about the frequency.

The frequency is set by

1) Hardware limitations. Sometimes, certain features of the hardware
are locked together, and as a result, a lower frequency must be
selected so the whole thing works. That can prevent the entire
frequency range of the DIMMs from being used. For example, the
CPU FSB limitations, may prevent the full range of memory clock
values.

2) The frequency is the lower of the rated frequency of the two
modules. If you mix a DDR333 module with a DDR400 module, no
problem. The BIOS picks to run them at DDR333. A faster module
can run at slower speeds. A DDR400 module, can run all the way
down to DDR200 (the lowest setting). And the datasheet for the
device will tell you it could actually run as low as DDR160.
So there is no problem running a stick at a frequency lower
than its rating.

3) A BIOS has programmed in it, knowledge of bus loading
characteristics. On some hardware (like S754 or S939 processors
with built-in memory controller), the bus is load sensitive.
The BIOS may be programmed to use DDR333 when two sticks are
present, even if both of them are DDR400. Some older boards
did that, such as some 3 slot VIA chipsets. They could offer
DDR400, DDR333, or DDR266 operation, depending on how many
sticks were stuffed in the slots. That used to drive some
of the users crazy, as they tried to defeat that feature,
and crank the memory clock back up.

What SIW seems to be reporting, is the timing table in the SPD
chip on the DIMM. The timing table may define two sets of
conditions, like a definition at 166 and 200, but it doesn't
prevent the BIOS from doing anything it wants. Even running
at 133 if conditions dictate. The BIOS can do the math, and
work out the proper timings. (Memory clock 200MHz equals
DDR transfer rate of DDR400...)

You can't mix DDR and DDR2, as the voltages are different.
Memory voltages are 3.3V, 2.5V, 1.8V, 1.5V for the various
generations. They're not intended to be mixed. For boards
which have slots of different memory types, there is a
note in the manual that says *don't* install different
types at the same time. Your board physically only has
one kind of slot, so it isn't physically possible to do
what SIW is reporting.

CPUZ has a report feature, in the last tab over on the right.
You can dump the 256 byte SPD table for each DIMM, and
analyze it by hand if necessary. The tables look like this.
The text file for the report is large, and you're looking
for a table like this. This is what SIW would be analyzing.

Dump Module #1
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
00 80 08 07 0D 0A 02 40 00 04 60 70 00 82 08 00 01
10 0E 04 0C 01 02 20 00 75 70 00 00 48 30 48 2A 40
20 75 75 45 45 00 00 00 00 00 3C 48 30 2D 55 00 00
30 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 57
40 7F 7F 7F 83 00 00 00 00 01 20 20 20 20 20 20 20
50 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 00 00 00 00
60 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
70 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
80 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
90 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
A0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
B0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
E0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

This document is an example of a decoding document for RAM.
It has "DDR Synchronous DRAM (DDR SDRAM)" in the title. I use
an archived link, because the original link isn't working right now.
This tells you how to decode that table of numbers.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030417070529/http://www.jedec.org/download/search/4_01_02_04R11A.PDF

*******

OK, the KU8 is a S754 design, with two memory slots.

To save some chatter, download this K8V manual. It has
the loading table on PDF page 21. There you will find
Table 1 Recommended memory configuration.

ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/asus/mb/sock754/k8v_basic/e1529_k8v.pdf

The memories are wired like this.

Memory_Data_Bus -------+-------+-------+
| | |
DIMM1 DIMM2 DIMM3
| | |
Memory_Address_Bus#1 --+-------+ |
|
Memory_Address_Bus#2 ------------------+

The Asus K8V motherboard would slow down, if there is too much
loading in both slot 1 and slot 2.

To estimate the wiring on your motherboard, there are a couple
possibilities. Either DIMM2 is missing (the ideal case) or
DIMM3 is missing (not so nice). If DIMM2 is missing, there is
one load on each address bus. There shouldn't be a BIOS related
slowdown in that case. For example, examine the 18th row in the
Asus manual - two DDR400 DIMMS can be run at DDR400, even if
they're double sided. That means, as long as DIMM2 has no load
in it, the memory controller can run full speed.

*******

I guess I've now completely missed the original question :)

Why does the computer freeze ?

You can run Prime95 Torture Test. It is a good test of memory
and CPU integrity. If you pass this test, then the problem could
be software related. If you fail, you have some BIOS tuning to
do.

http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft

The most likely link you'll want is

http://mersenneforum.org/gimps/p95v259.zip

Unzip that in a separate folder. Run the executable. It may ask
you "Join GIMPs?". Answer you're "just torture testing". You don't
need to join the search for prime numbers, to use the tool.

The custom dialog allows setting parameters. You have (presumably)
1GB of RAM reported in Windows. Allow a couple hundred meg to keep
the OS happy. Maybe you could test about 800MB of memory or so.
Check the size of the memory to be tested. You don't have to test
the whole memory (you can't anyway, because the OS lives there).
You can test a smaller amount of memory, such as 512MB. Chances
are, that will span the gap between the two modules, resulting
in some testing in each module. (I've even hand crafted the
test size, so I control which module gets tested. I've used
that to isolate errors to a particular module. There is no
need for that just yet.)

The program does a math calculation with a known answer. It can
detect math errors. It is very sensitive to memory problems.
I've had it stop execution after only a couple seconds (on a
highly overclocked system). My "confidence interval" is a run
of four hours, with no errors detected. On a multi-core processor,
that program will run a test thread for each physical or virtual
processor. That results in a good workout for the CPU and for the
CPU cooling solution. The benefit of the test, is it tests whether
the computer can handle a heavy computing load, without freezing,
causing the power supply to shut off, or throwing errors and
stopping. If the program reports an error and stops a test
thread, then you need to enter the BIOS and set the BIOS to
more relaxed timing or memory frequency. I won't go into
details, until you report your test results. (I.e. If it
runs for four hours, and reports no errors, you have some
other kind of software problem.)

There are versions of that program that run in Linux. If
you boot a Linux LiveCD, you can run Prime95 in that
environment as well. You can compare Linux stability to
Windows stability. If Linux is stable, and Windows is not,
then your problem is a software one, with your Windows install.

Freezing is a bitch to debug, because there may not be any
error messages to work with. If you have error messages, it
makes it much easier to track down the issue. And freezing
doesn't allow that, so it is more of a "process of elimination"
approach.

Paul
 
P

Paul

Stan said:
Thanks Peter,
I ran CPU-Z and here are some of the results:

ON THE MEMORY TAB ==============
Type DDR
Size 2048 MBytes
DRAM Frequency 163.6 MHz
FSB:DRAM CPR/15
CAS# Latency (CL) 2.5 clocks
RAS# to CAS# (tRCD) 3 clocks
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 3 clocks
Cycle Time (tDAS) 7 clocks
Bank Cycle Time (tRC) 10 clocks
Command Rate (CR) 1T
DRAM icle Timer 16 clocks

ON THE SPD TAB: =================
SLOT 1: Module Size: 1024 MBytes
SLOT 2: Module Size: 320 MBytes <--- ?

SLOT 1: Max Bandwidth PD3200 (200 MHz)
SLOT 2: Max Bandwidth N/A <--- ?

SLOT 1: Manufacturer: N/A
SLOT 2: Manufacturer: Nanya Technology

SLOT 1: Part Number 16VDDT6464AG-3
SLOT 2: Part Number M2UUG64DD8HB1G-5T

SLOT 1: Serial number FF24BAA0
SLOT 2: Serial number 456E0203

TIMINGS TABLE: (JEDEC#1, JEDEC#2, JEDEC#3)

SLOT 1: frequency 133 MHz, 166 MHz, 200 MHz
SLOT 2: frequency 166 MHz, 0 MHz <--- ?

SLOT 1: CAS# Latency 2.0, 2.5, 3.0
SLOT 2: CAS# Latency 2.5, 3.0

SLOT 1: RAS# to CAS# 2, 3, 3
SLOT 2: RAS# to CAS# 3, 1

SLOT 1: RAS# Precharge 2, 3, 3
SLOT 2: RAS# Precharge 3, 1

SLOT 1: tRAS 6, 7, 8
SLOT 2: tRAS 7, 1

SLOT 1: Voltage 2.5v, 2.5v, 2.5v
SLOT 2: Voltage 2.5v, 2.5v, 2.5v

Those are the results of analysis by CPU-Z . I note that with SIW it
looked to me like the problem was with the module in slot 1, while
with CPU-Z it looks like the problem is in slot 2.

Stan Hilliard

I have a question for you. Are you running any utilities
right now, which are accessing the SMBUS ? That could be
something like Speedfan, MBM5, or even a utility provided
by Abit (something monitoring voltages, temps, fan speed).

The SMBUS is not protected by a semaphore, and
simultaneous access can cause data corruption on the bus.
Apparently, there wasn't enough interest in fixing this,
and with no semaphore (so one program has exclusive access
for a short period at a time), one program can stomp on
another program's attempted access.

More modern hardware monitors are now connected to the LPC
bus. On older hardware, the hardware monitor is on SMBUS,
and shares the bus with the DIMM SPD chips. A program accessing
the SPD, at the same time as another program accesses the hardware
monitor, is what leads to corruption.

This is how an older motherboard does it.

SMBUS ------+--------+---------+------
| | |
DIMM1 DIMM2 Hardware
Monitor
Volts Temp Fans
| | |

Newer ones are like this. The hardware monitor program
no longer upsets SMBUS activity, so SIW or CPUZ would get
a non-corrupted answer.

SMBUS ------+--------+
| |
DIMM1 DIMM2

LPC ------+
|
Hardware
Monitor
Volts Temp Fans
| | |

HTH,
Paul
 
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R

Roy Smith

Yes it is much better to use matched memory modules, as you've
discovered the reason why you shouldn't.
 
S

Stan Hilliard

I have a question for you. Are you running any utilities
right now, which are accessing the SMBUS ? That could be
something like Speedfan, MBM5, or even a utility provided
by Abit (something monitoring voltages, temps, fan speed).

The utility "Cool'n'Quiet" came with the ABIT motherboard or with the
AMD Athlon 64 processor. It might be running. How can I verify that or
make sure it doesn't run?
The SMBUS is not protected by a semaphore, and
simultaneous access can cause data corruption on the bus.
Apparently, there wasn't enough interest in fixing this,
and with no semaphore (so one program has exclusive access
for a short period at a time), one program can stomp on
another program's attempted access.

More modern hardware monitors are now connected to the LPC
bus. On older hardware, the hardware monitor is on SMBUS,
and shares the bus with the DIMM SPD chips. A program accessing
the SPD, at the same time as another program accesses the hardware
monitor, is what leads to corruption.

This is how an older motherboard does it.

SMBUS ------+--------+---------+------
| | |
DIMM1 DIMM2 Hardware
Monitor
Volts Temp Fans
| | |

Newer ones are like this. The hardware monitor program
no longer upsets SMBUS activity, so SIW or CPUZ would get
a non-corrupted answer.

SMBUS ------+--------+
| |
DIMM1 DIMM2

LPC ------+
|
Hardware
Monitor
Volts Temp Fans
| | |

HTH,
Paul

Perhaps I should upgrade the motherboard? Is there a motherboard that
would be a large improvement but would be a simple replacement for
the KU8?

If I were to switch motherboards, what matching changes to the
configuration would I have to make also?

The current configuration involves C: as RAID 0 cabled SATA to the
motherboard. A PPA 1301 PCI card supplies two additional SATA ports.

And the graphics card is a NVIDIA GeForce FX 5500.

I could go $300 - $600.

Am I thinking reasonably?

Advice would be appreciated,
Stan Hilliard
 
P

Paul

Stan Hilliard wrote:
The utility "Cool'n'Quiet" came with the ABIT motherboard or with the
AMD Athlon 64 processor. It might be running. How can I verify that or
make sure it doesn't run?

Cool N' Quiet controls the FID and VID (core clock multiplier and
Vcore voltage setting). When the processor is unloaded, the core clock
drops in speed, and the Vcore regulator puts out a lower value of voltage
in steps. It is a way of enhancing the characteristics of the processor at
idle. As soon as a load appears on the CPU, the settings can be cranked
up to nominal again. That would not involve SMBUS or LPC.

Perhaps I should upgrade the motherboard? Is there a motherboard that
would be a large improvement but would be a simple replacement for
the KU8?

If I were to switch motherboards, what matching changes to the
configuration would I have to make also?

The current configuration involves C: as RAID 0 cabled SATA to the
motherboard. A PPA 1301 PCI card supplies two additional SATA ports.

And the graphics card is a NVIDIA GeForce FX 5500.

I could go $300 - $600.

Am I thinking reasonably?

Advice would be appreciated,
Stan Hilliard

It would be difficult to find an S754 motherboard now. I don't
see one on Newegg, and they had a couple very cheap motherboards
for a while after shipments of S754 processors ended.

You could get

1) New AMD processor $99, socket type AM2/AM2+/AM3
2) New motherboard <$100
If it has built-in graphics, there is no need to replace
your video card right away.
3) New RAM. The S754 uses DDR, while newer motherboards use
DDR2 or DDR3.
4) You could probably match or exceed the FX5500 level of
performance for <$100.

Modern AMD motherboards don't have AGP slots. They use PCI
Express for adding a video card. Or, if your FX5500 was a PCI
based card, there might still be a PCI slot on the new motherboard.

Transitioning a RAID pair from a ULI Southbridge to something else,
may not work too well. There aren't really any standards for RAID,
and only "accidental interactions", where a company not wishing to
invent its own, uses the services of an existing industry player,
to implement the RAID. At the very least, I'd expect to have to
back up the existing RAID pair, move the disks to the new motherboard,
then restore the data to the pair of disks. Next, a Repair Install
of Windows, pressing F6 early in the process, allows installing a new
driver for the new RAID interface. So the transition can be done,
but it might require a disk you can use for a backup, as part of
the process.

I selected a board here, which supports some version of the
three processor types "AM3/AM2+/AM2" and also mentions DDR2
memory. My objective in using DDR2, is to save a few bucks.

GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI MicroATX $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128394

Three video connectors. Only one PS/2 connector. Only one PATA connector.
Comes with a floppy connector.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-128-394-S02?$S640W$

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-128-394-S03?$S640W$

Having selected a motherboard with the desired RAM type, next comes
the CPUSupport table. This is how you select a matching processor.

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/Motherboard/CPUSupport_Model.aspx?ProductID=3141#anchor_os

I picked a dual core with a large cache. If you want something
that sucks down the power, there are more power hungry processors.
These don't draw 80W all the time - only when they're flat out.

AMD Phenom II X2 550 Black Edition Callisto 3.1GHz 2x512KB L2, 6MB L3, AM3 80W Dual-Core $99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103680

Memory support list. If four sticks are used, max memory speed is limited.
A two stick config might allow a faster choice.

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/MemorySupport/mb_memory_ga-ma785gm-us2h.pdf

2 x $27 for these DDR2 modules. 2x1GB, for dual channel mode if you want.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231143

80 + 99 + 54 = $233

If you want a video card, a 9600 GT is available for $80.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150397

Or, you can use the Tomshardware charts, and shop around. There
are video charts and CPU charts.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts

The FX5500 is compared to the 9600 GT, to give some hardware numbers.
You can compare your older card, to a new one, and figure out how
much money is needed to match specs.

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=158&card2=557

Once you've settled on some choices, post back your
hardware list, plus what is written on the side of your
PSU, and I can give you a power estimate. Xbitlabs has
some measured values for video cards, and they haven't
measured all the cards. The power number on GPUReview
is more of a manufacturer estimate, which could be on
the high side.

If you have a picture of the label on the supply, that is
faster than writing all the numbers down. Each number on
here has some meaning. If you can find a picture of the
label, that will save some typing.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-139-004-S10?$S640W$

So for $313, I could do a new set of hardware. The motherboard
is a microATX, and perhaps you'd prefer a full sized motherboard.
In which case, go through the process again, to pick out a board.

Your current power supply may have a 2x2 power connector. The
motherboard above has a 2x4, and a 2x2 fits in it and will power
the 80W processor just fine. You don't absolutely need a 2x4.
If the video card has a PCI Express auxiliary power connector,
you may need an adapter for that. I don't see a power connector
on that sample 9600GT. There is room for one, but they didn't install it.

A 9600GT draws about 60 watts.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gainward-bliss9600gt-512gs_7.html#sect0

You can see in the details graphic here, that normally "+12V EX 1"
provides power, which implies a normal 9600 GT card would use a
2x3 PCI Express power connector. If the sample video card I picked
draws the entire 60W through the PCI Express bus connector, that
isn't the best way to do it. But it may make the card design
cheaper to make, which is why they did it that way. I'd prefer
a separate connector myself.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/gainward-bliss9600gt-512gs/9600gt_power_full.gif

In this slightly more expensive card, a separate connector is used
to supply power. Some power flows through the slot, and the balance
of the power needs come through the 2x3 connector.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/14-125-272-S01?$S640W$

In this image, you can see the card with the 2x3, bundles a
"dual Molex to 2x3" adapter, for use with older power supplies
not having a 2x3 connector.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/14-125-272-S06?$S640W$

Shopping for this stuff is loads of fun, especially if you have
customer reviews with comments on how good the stuff is.

Paul
 
S

Stan Hilliard

Stan Hilliard wrote:


Cool N' Quiet controls the FID and VID (core clock multiplier and
Vcore voltage setting). When the processor is unloaded, the core clock
drops in speed, and the Vcore regulator puts out a lower value of voltage
in steps. It is a way of enhancing the characteristics of the processor at
idle. As soon as a load appears on the CPU, the settings can be cranked
up to nominal again. That would not involve SMBUS or LPC.



It would be difficult to find an S754 motherboard now. I don't
see one on Newegg, and they had a couple very cheap motherboards
for a while after shipments of S754 processors ended.

You could get

1) New AMD processor $99, socket type AM2/AM2+/AM3
2) New motherboard <$100
If it has built-in graphics, there is no need to replace
your video card right away.
3) New RAM. The S754 uses DDR, while newer motherboards use
DDR2 or DDR3.
4) You could probably match or exceed the FX5500 level of
performance for <$100.

Modern AMD motherboards don't have AGP slots. They use PCI
Express for adding a video card. Or, if your FX5500 was a PCI
based card, there might still be a PCI slot on the new motherboard.

Transitioning a RAID pair from a ULI Southbridge to something else,
may not work too well. There aren't really any standards for RAID,
and only "accidental interactions", where a company not wishing to
invent its own, uses the services of an existing industry player,
to implement the RAID. At the very least, I'd expect to have to
back up the existing RAID pair, move the disks to the new motherboard,
then restore the data to the pair of disks. Next, a Repair Install
of Windows, pressing F6 early in the process, allows installing a new
driver for the new RAID interface. So the transition can be done,
but it might require a disk you can use for a backup, as part of
the process.

I selected a board here, which supports some version of the
three processor types "AM3/AM2+/AM2" and also mentions DDR2
memory. My objective in using DDR2, is to save a few bucks.

GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI MicroATX $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128394

Three video connectors. Only one PS/2 connector. Only one PATA connector.
Comes with a floppy connector.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-128-394-S02?$S640W$

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-128-394-S03?$S640W$

Having selected a motherboard with the desired RAM type, next comes
the CPUSupport table. This is how you select a matching processor.

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/Motherboard/CPUSupport_Model.aspx?ProductID=3141#anchor_os

I picked a dual core with a large cache. If you want something
that sucks down the power, there are more power hungry processors.
These don't draw 80W all the time - only when they're flat out.

AMD Phenom II X2 550 Black Edition Callisto 3.1GHz 2x512KB L2, 6MB L3, AM3 80W Dual-Core $99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103680

Memory support list. If four sticks are used, max memory speed is limited.
A two stick config might allow a faster choice.

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/MemorySupport/mb_memory_ga-ma785gm-us2h.pdf

2 x $27 for these DDR2 modules. 2x1GB, for dual channel mode if you want.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231143

80 + 99 + 54 = $233

If you want a video card, a 9600 GT is available for $80.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150397

Or, you can use the Tomshardware charts, and shop around. There
are video charts and CPU charts.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts

The FX5500 is compared to the 9600 GT, to give some hardware numbers.
You can compare your older card, to a new one, and figure out how
much money is needed to match specs.

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=158&card2=557

Once you've settled on some choices, post back your
hardware list, plus what is written on the side of your
PSU, and I can give you a power estimate. Xbitlabs has
some measured values for video cards, and they haven't
measured all the cards. The power number on GPUReview
is more of a manufacturer estimate, which could be on
the high side.

If you have a picture of the label on the supply, that is
faster than writing all the numbers down. Each number on
here has some meaning. If you can find a picture of the
label, that will save some typing.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-139-004-S10?$S640W$

So for $313, I could do a new set of hardware. The motherboard
is a microATX, and perhaps you'd prefer a full sized motherboard.
In which case, go through the process again, to pick out a board.

Your current power supply may have a 2x2 power connector. The
motherboard above has a 2x4, and a 2x2 fits in it and will power
the 80W processor just fine. You don't absolutely need a 2x4.
If the video card has a PCI Express auxiliary power connector,
you may need an adapter for that. I don't see a power connector
on that sample 9600GT. There is room for one, but they didn't install it.

A 9600GT draws about 60 watts.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gainward-bliss9600gt-512gs_7.html#sect0

You can see in the details graphic here, that normally "+12V EX 1"
provides power, which implies a normal 9600 GT card would use a
2x3 PCI Express power connector. If the sample video card I picked
draws the entire 60W through the PCI Express bus connector, that
isn't the best way to do it. But it may make the card design
cheaper to make, which is why they did it that way. I'd prefer
a separate connector myself.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/gainward-bliss9600gt-512gs/9600gt_power_full.gif

In this slightly more expensive card, a separate connector is used
to supply power. Some power flows through the slot, and the balance
of the power needs come through the 2x3 connector.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/14-125-272-S01?$S640W$

In this image, you can see the card with the 2x3, bundles a
"dual Molex to 2x3" adapter, for use with older power supplies
not having a 2x3 connector.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/14-125-272-S06?$S640W$

Shopping for this stuff is loads of fun, especially if you have
customer reviews with comments on how good the stuff is.

Paul

Thanks Paul,

I will study this.

Stan Hilliard
 
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P

Parrott

Stan Hilliard said:
Could mismatched memory modules be the reason why my computer freezes
up with some programs? The SIW utility tells me that my two memory
modules don't seem to be matched. One is DDR and the other is DDR2.
The specs for my ABIT KU8 motherboard call for DDR, not DDR2, if that
makes a difference. Here is what the ISW utility shows?

MEMORY SUMMARY
Maximum Capacity 1024 MBytes
Maximum Memory Module Size 4096
Memory Slots 2
Error Correction None
DRAM Frequency 163.6 MHz <--- should be 200.07?
Memory Timings 3-3-3-7 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

CAPACITY
Slot1 1536MB <--- wrong for KU8?
Slot2 1024MB

MEMORY TYPE
Slot1 DDR2 (PC3200) <--- wrong for KU8?
Slot2 DDR (PC3200)

SPEED
Slot1 200 MHz (DDR2 400) <--- wrong for KU8?
Slot2 200 MHZ

SUPPORTED FREQUENCIES MHz
Slot1 133.3, 166.7, 200.0
Slot2 166.7, 200.0

MEMORY TIMINGS (neither module seems to match the memory summary)
Slot1 2-2-2-6-8 at 133.3 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Slot1 3-3-3-7-10 at 166.7 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Slot1 4-3-3-8-11 at 200.0 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Slot2 2-3-3-7-0 at 166.7 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Slot2 3-3-3-8-0 at 200.0 MHz, at 2.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)

Should I replace one of the modules?

Stan Hilliard


If your mobo can't run DDR2 memory then it can't run it so it's no use
trying to install DDR2 memory.
I'm sure you can run diff amounts of RAM but must be the same brand and
speeds. I've seen peoples using 1GB RAM plus a 512MB RAM sticks totaling
1.5GB and they were the same brand and speeds. Not sure if it's wise mixing
diff brands of RAM together though!!.....


God Bless... :)
 
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