Microsoft Office 2003 EULA clarification

[All Things Mopar]

On this date, Leythos extended this wisdom for the
consideration of other readers...

That's only true for Retail Office. I tried to do this with
an OEM Office 2003 Professional and was told it was not
permitted by the activation phone people.

All bets are off for the OEM stuff. I was referring to retail
versions, only.

 

[All Things Mopar]

On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
the consideration of other readers...

You may have read the wrong EULA. Microsoft has several
different EULAs for various versions of Office, to make
absolutely sure you get the right one, open any Office app
on your own computer, click on Help/About and click on the
"View the end user lisense agreement" link, it'll be in
blue right under the product ID.

I read them all. And, I don't read EULAs /after/ I buy and
install the product, I read them /before/. If I don't "agree"
with the EULA, I either find something else to buy and use, go
without, or (maybe) suck it up and "go along to get along".

The latter condition applies to my gruding use of XP at all. I
don't want to start a holy war about Linux, but it is getting
closer and closer to being "ready for prime time" on the
desktop, and able to run Win apps "natively" without having to
tweak it.

Once Linux "gets there", it's adios Bill!

 

[David R. Norton MVP]

On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
the consideration of other readers...


I read them all. And, I don't read EULAs /after/ I buy and
install the product, I read them /before/.

My point is, how do you know which is the correct EULA? There are several
for Office and they are all a bit different plus they occasionally are
changed/modified/updated. The only way to be sure is to read the EULA in the
product you have purchased and you can't see that until during installation.

Notice it says if you don't agree you can return the product for refund and
you can, believe it or not, I've done so!

 

[kurttrail]

My point is, how do you know which is the correct EULA? There are
several for Office and they are all a bit different plus they
occasionally are changed/modified/updated. The only way to be sure
is to read the EULA in the product you have purchased and you can't
see that until during installation.

Notice it says if you don't agree you can return the product for
refund and you can, believe it or not, I've done so!

Try re-reading the OP. He is asking questions BEFORE he buys any
product.

Sewer Gas preventing you from comprehending English, Norton?

--
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Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
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"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[All Things Mopar]

On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
the consideration of other readers...

Notice it says if you don't agree you can return the
product for refund and you can, believe it or not, I've
done so!

The box for the several incantations of Office I looked at in
the store listed the web site and said to read the EULA /before/
installing. The boxes I looked at specifically said that if you
don't agree with the EULA, return the product /unopened/.

None of my local computer stores will do a charge credit on
/any/ software that's been opened. They aren't dummies - they
know that people will copy the CD (if they can), then return the
box. Some stores will give you another box if you think it is
defective and /may/ do a store credit.

I'm glad you were successful with returning before, but I don't
want to take a chance. Office is just too expensive.

 

[David R. Norton MVP]

On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
the consideration of other readers...


The box for the several incantations of Office I looked at in
the store listed the web site and said to read the EULA /before/
installing. The boxes I looked at specifically said that if you
don't agree with the EULA, return the product /unopened/.

That fine if the EULA is printed on the box, it's not fine if you can't see
the EULA until you're doing the install as is the case with most software.

None of my local computer stores will do a charge credit on
/any/ software that's been opened.

Yeah, they will if you can't read the EULA before installation as is the case
with most software. Just print out the EULA and take it with you, ask for
the manager, point out that the part that says "Return for refund" is telling
him the software company will cover it. You will have to argue but you'll
win if you're persuasive.

 

[David R. Norton MVP]

Try re-reading the OP. He is asking questions BEFORE he buys any
product.

Sewer Gas preventing you from comprehending English, Norton?

You seem to be the one with the reading problem, go read the original post
again.

 

[kurttrail]

You seem to be the one with the reading problem, go read the original
post again.

"The reason for this question is not to find a way to
skirt the EULA, but to guarantee before I stroke the big
bucks this product costs that I'll be able to always use
it regardless of which PC I am on, and without being
worrying about disadvantaged by some validation
procedure."

See the "before I stroke the big bucks?"

That would seem to me that he hasn't purchased Office 2003 yet.

The OP has access to the EULAs before purchase and wants to make sure he
buys the flavor of Office that suits his needs.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

That fine if the EULA is printed on the box, it's not fine if you
can't see the EULA until you're doing the install as is the case with
most software.


Yeah, they will if you can't read the EULA before installation as is
the case with most software. Just print out the EULA and take it
with you, ask for the manager, point out that the part that says
"Return for refund" is telling him the software company will cover
it. You will have to argue but you'll win if you're persuasive.

Hardly any store, physical, or web, we take returns of OPENED software.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[All Things Mopar]

On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
the consideration of other readers...

That fine if the EULA is printed on the box, it's not fine
if you can't see the EULA until you're doing the install as
is the case with most software.

Yes, you're right. In those case, which is most of the time, I
go to the companiy's web site and check there and/or call
first.

Yeah, they will if you can't read the EULA before
installation as is the case with most software. Just print
out the EULA and take it with you, ask for the manager,
point out that the part that says "Return for refund" is
telling him the software company will cover it. You will
have to argue but you'll win if you're persuasive.

I have been successful at being "persuasive" some of the time
but I've also had to call my Visa company to dispute the
charge when the store balked. That's made me skittish about
these things, especially on more expensive software.

The "EULA" printed on most boxes is pretty vague as to the
buyer's rights are for a refund. Even then, some stores have
strict policies about no refunds if the box is opened. When I
simply have no other choice but to buy and install first, I
track down the manager and verify with them that I can return
it, and I have them write it on my bill for "proof".

This goes to the issue of "trust" brought up earlier in this
thread. Stores are rightfully reluctant to refund software
that can easily be copied. Its like camera stores that have
policies against refunds of cameras because the twits buy a
camera for their vacation or daughter's wedding, then try to
bring it back.

Too bad there's so many people trying scans of one sort or
another...

 

[All Things Mopar]

On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
the consideration of other readers...

You seem to be the one with the reading problem, go read
the original post again.

I'm the OP and may not have worded my post clearly, but I was
asking about clarification of the EULAs for the several kinds of
Office 2003 /before/ I buy one.

 

[All Things Mopar]

On this date, kurttrail extended this wisdom for the
consideration of other readers...

[snip]

That would seem to me that he hasn't purchased Office 2003
yet.

No, I haven't.

The OP has access to the EULAs before purchase and wants to
make sure he buys the flavor of Office that suits his
needs.

Yes, this sums up succinctly what I'm trying to do. Thanks.

 

[David R. Norton MVP]

Hardly any store, physical, or web, we take returns of OPENED software.

I just got through saying they would and gave you the information on how to
do it. Having had to do it myself, I learned how to go about it. If you let
some teenage clerk tell you they won't take back opened software and meekly
leave w/o asking to see the manager and making him/her read the EULA then
that's your fault, isn't it?

 

[David R. Norton MVP]

I'm the OP and may not have worded my post clearly, but I was
asking about clarification of the EULAs for the several kinds of
Office 2003 /before/ I buy one.

And you said you'd read the EULA on line which prompted me to point out that
the EULA you read might not apply to the product you purchased. EULAs
change, the copy you buy might be an earlier version of the EULA if it's been
modified lately. The one you agree to is the one packaged with your product,
not a possibly newer and revised version on line. In addition, Microsoft has
several different EULAs on their website for different versions of Office,
it's easy to read the wrong one.

 

[David R. Norton MVP]

"The reason for this question is not to find a way to
skirt the EULA, but to guarantee before I stroke the big
bucks this product costs that I'll be able to always use
it regardless of which PC I am on, and without being
worrying about disadvantaged by some validation
procedure."

See the "before I stroke the big bucks?"

That would seem to me that he hasn't purchased Office 2003 yet.

The OP has access to the EULAs before purchase and wants to make sure he
buys the flavor of Office that suits his needs.

Yup, that's why I said he had to read the EULA that came with the software,
NOT the online version which could be a newer revised one.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

I just got through saying they would and gave you the information on
how to do it. Having had to do it myself, I learned how to go about
it. If you let some teenage clerk tell you they won't take back
opened software and meekly leave w/o asking to see the manager and
making him/her read the EULA then that's your fault, isn't it?

But - for most MS products don't you have to start installing it to read the
EULA?

And you just stated the online EULA (or any EULA) could be different for any
version/revision/etc you bought - so even if they have the same copy already
installed in store - wouldn't they have to install and read YOUR EULA in
order to be sure they are in compliance? heh

 

[All Things Mopar]

On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom
for
the consideration of other readers...

And you said you'd read the EULA on line which prompted me
to point out that the EULA you read might not apply to the
product you purchased. EULAs change, the copy you buy
might be an earlier version of the EULA if it's been
modified lately. The one you agree to is the one packaged
with your product, not a possibly newer and revised version
on line. In addition, Microsoft has several different
EULAs on their website for different versions of Office,
it's easy to read the wrong one.

David, I looked at the flippin' boxes in the store for
the Students & Teachers Edition, the Standard Edition,
the Small Business Edition, and the Professional
Edition. They /all/ said to go to M$'s EULA site,
http://www.microsoft.com/office/eula/en.mspx which I
did. Each EULA was properly labeled on this web site so
it was trivial to figure out which EULA went with which
product I looked at. And, I also looked at the Home Use
Rights Licenses.

If M$ is too damn dumb to keep their EULA site up-to-
date, I guess they deserve what they get - no sale.

Again, the /entire/ purpose of my OP was that these
EULAs are intentionally written in legalese so as to be
hard to understand but easy for M$ to defend, and not
being an intellectual property attorney, it wasn't at
all obvious to me exactly what were my rights nor what I
was/was not permitted to do. From a couple of responses
I read in this thread, I'm not the only one who's
confused.

 

[All Things Mopar]

On this date, David R. Norton MVP extended this wisdom for
the consideration of other readers...

Yup, that's why I said he had to read the EULA that came
with the software, NOT the online version which could be a
newer revised one.

What does it matter which one is newer? I'm simply trying to get
an advance "read" to ensure that /my/ rights to use software I pay
$$$ for are observed.

 

[kurttrail]

Yup, that's why I said he had to read the EULA that came with the
software, NOT the online version which could be a newer revised one.

ROFL! Now you are just BSing about the what you said earlier.

"Microsoft has several different EULAs for various versions of Office"

You were talking about different EULAs for different versions, not newer
versus older revisions of the EULA.

But thanks for demonstrating that you are full of sewer sh*t once again,
Norton! ;-)

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

I just got through saying they would and gave you the information on
how to do it. Having had to do it myself, I learned how to go about
it. If you let some teenage clerk tell you they won't take back
opened software and meekly leave w/o asking to see the manager and
making him/her read the EULA then that's your fault, isn't it?

With online stores many say that they won't accept returns of open
software, and those terms are their terms, not MSs.

And many diffferent retail stores have that same policy. So the only
recourse is return to MS, and waiting for the return through the mail.

No where in MS's EULA does it say that the seller of the copy of
software must accept open box returns, and even if it did, the seller
didn't agree to the EULA.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"