Microsoft has utterly failed with Access 2007

[David W. Fenton]

I will be the first to admit that I always used the mouse for
this. If you using the mouse, then you don't deal with cascading
menus like you do in 2003 to format->align-> size to fit.

I have *always* used keystrokes for this -- I use the mouse to
select the controls and then the alt-key shortcuts to align/resize
the controls, so I've never had problems with the menus.

 

[RoyVidar]

Were you unaware that you don't need to use the arrow keys, i.e.,
that you just hit the first letter repeatedly?

Except, that it doesn't work in the 2007 version.

 

[Albert D. Kallal]

Uh, why wait until you've left the code window to save the form? I
always hit Ctrl-S in the code window (after compiling) and this
saves all open unsaved objects, including the form the module
belongs to. Why do you need to leave the code window to do that?

Sure. I still need/want to close the form.
so, ctrl-w will close the form without a save prompt if I save in code
(which is usually the case). However, either way, I just hit ctrl-w to
close that form. If I get a save prompt, then I hit y. I might not
have gone into the code editor anyway...

For that matter, why do you have to close the form to force the "Do
you want to save..." dialog? Why not just SAVE IT?

Sure, that works just fine. In my case I trying to get that form closed.
So, sure I can use ctrl-s, but I usually hitting
ctrl-w anyway to close the form. My "end task" is to
get the form closed. If I hit ctrl-s in the code window....when out of the
code editor back to the form...ctrl-w will close the form for me without a
save prompt. However, hitting ctrl-w will close the form, and if I do, or do
not get a save prompt is fine for me. Often ctrl-w will not prompt me...

I will admit this is really a personal pref, and the reason is:

While ctrl + "," will flip the form into design mode, and then f5 into view
mode, I by habit "often" close the form with ctrl-w (in design mode) to save
it (and if I hit ctrl-s in code editor and just came back I still close that
form). I will then hit enter key to open that form (it will be still
highlighted in the database window(or nav pane).

The reason for closing the form (even if it saved). is that flipping the
form from design mode into view mode is often very instable for me due to so
much code being dependence on many other objects being initialized
elsewhere in the database. The form can't be really be opened on it's own.
Since there is so many class objects and variables etc. needed. So flipping
the form into view mode is often risky (access will hang, or crash). So, I
close the form first by habit to ensure it is saved. Much of this comes
down to "motor memory". If I by habit flip, then I do so by accident with
forms that most defiantly should not be launched on their own.
If access crashes or hangs when opening the form, then no big loss by
having always hit ctrl-w. (however, hitting ctrl-w means the form is
closed and saved). This could be just my personal case/experience, but I
found a good deal of instability when flipping a form from design view to
"view" when hitting f5 for "some" of my forms. So, this way always sure
that the form is safe closed and saved. I really don't have to worry/think
if this is going to be a problem for a particular form if I open it, or
bumpt the f5 key by accident before having saved the form (or just hit
f5 by habit before having saved the form).

I think if one not experienced "lack of" stability then they
will likely not close the form they had in design mode before trying to
re-open it in view mode...

 

[David W. Fenton]

Except, that it doesn't work in the 2007 version.

???

We were talking about navigation by keyboard *before* A2007, weren't
we?

 

[Sky]

Interesting....I often want to open the properties but not necessary to
modify them. I often open the sheet...look, and then close.

And, since there so many options in the sheet, that one case where I
always
gone to the mouse to "select" the property...and then from that point on,
I
keyboard to change the property, close the sheet, and ctrl-w to close the
form + y to save.

So, navigation in the property sheet is tedious at best. And, as
mentioned,
I don't necessary want the focus to change to the sheet anyway. I don't
find
this worse...in fact I find it better now.

And, the once extra f6 key gets you there anyway....

Well, if you are going to close the Property Sheet anyway, that puts the
focus back on the form. So why not set the focus on the Property Sheet when
it is opened? Even if I am just looking around in the properties, I still
want to use the ctrl-tab and tab arrow keys to move since the property may
not be visible. Plus, setting the focus is STANDARD Windows behavior for
Alt-Enter everywhere. Access too should conform with Microsoft standards.

Well, yes, but "normally" right after you just modified code, when you
flip
back to the form (alt-tab) you want to save the form. And, you can now do
this with one keystroke ctrl-w. I would take this set of keys over that of
having the focus return back to the prop sheet when you come back from
form
code 9 out of 10 times.

I know all that, but your 9 out of 10 is not mine. I might like to look at a
function call before I put it in the event properties with a leading equals
sign.

And moving the focus when you are not looking is unacceptable, because it
changes the context for other keystrokes. Just like using SendKeys.

I wonder if something is different for you?

I simply use tab to jump to each section, and when you get to that
section...just hit ctrl-tab....and you are now inside that section. Then
use
tab....

That works only when you have no subforms. Many of my forms have subforms,
and ctrl-tab does NOT go inside the section. If I remove the subform,
ctrl-tab starts working, and then I am happy. I don't know why subforms
prevent this. Another inconsistency. Does it work for you with subforms?

Sure, but it far more common to "import" that is easy:

alt+x+a

Again this is the 90/10 rule.

Same difference. I think you are wrong above. I must press Alt, x, 1, and a
to perform your import example. In fact Import and Export are on the same
ribbon tab, which is why I think you cannot avoid the x1 double keystroke
with widely separately left fingers. (If you can, I am interested.) That's
the kind of extra keystrokes that were poorly chosen throughout the ribbon.
I don't think double-keystrokes should ever be needed.

I agree with the above. The design tab should be consistent, and it is
not.....

Finally, something we agree on.

Hum, I don't use tabbed forms, so two f6 f6 (two quick rat tat tat) gets
me
back....

I don't use tabbed view either.

For me, F6 goes from a form, to the Navigation Pane, to the (nearly
invisible) Status Bar buttons (lower right corner), to the ribbon, back to
the form. How do you skip any of this? Perhaps your status bar is turned
off? For me it's hard to track the focus and to keep count how many F6s I
need.

- Steve

 

[David W. Fenton]

The reason for closing the form (even if it saved). is that
flipping the form from design mode into view mode is often very
instable for me due to so much code being dependence on many other
objects being initialized elsewhere in the database.

Also, it retains the maximization state of your design mode, whether
or not that's the way you want the form to run in production.
Certainly, if you're going to close the form, there's no point in
saving separately (though I guess COMPILE+SAVE is so hardwired into
my brain that I'd hardly ever end up doing what you do!).

 

[RoyVidar]

???

We were talking about navigation by keyboard *before* A2007, weren't
we?

I'm sorry, I thought you were discussing shortcut keys in previous
versions *and* or *vs* the 2007 version, and I just wanted to point
out that this one, which I both found usefull and perceived as
standard UI behaviour, is among those navigation options removed from
the 2007 version.

 

[David W. Fenton]

I'm sorry, I thought you were discussing shortcut keys in previous
versions *and* or *vs* the 2007 version, and I just wanted to
point out that this one, which I both found usefull and perceived
as standard UI behaviour, is among those navigation options
removed from the 2007 version.

I thought Albert's point was that it's not needed in A2007, so the
fact that it no longer works is irrelevant.

I certainly don't know why MS would take out what is bog standard
behavior for all lists throughout Windows.

 

[Klaus-Dieter Gundermann]

Hi Albert,

You failed to mention what you find better in a2007.

Surely there are some improvements in a2007 ( and i would love to use the
ribbons ) but I >can't< switch to a2007 !! Why ?

Because my UI requires that there are some information which has to be always
visible to the user. (Its a CRM database with TAPI connection, the user has
must always see, which customer is calling, which lines in his team are busy..)

I use a toolbar with some commandbarbuttons on it for now several years in
Access XP, but in a2007 this functionality was removed !!!
( yes I now, i can open my MDB in A2007 and have my menubars and toolbars, but
then I can't have the ribbon, but thats not really migration to the a2007 Accdb
format, isn't it? ) (btw there are several annoyances/bugs/crashes when using
mdb in A2007, I have send about 100 Office Error Reports in the last months )

The ribbon were developed for Word and Excel and MS thinks "This UI is good for
TWO application, so it should by good for EVERY application".
And that is the problem with a2007. Access is a DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT and
the people are developing many DIFFERENT application, but MS is removing the
freedom to create the right UI for our needs.
( Or never gave us the ability to create e.g. our own sidebar )

Just my 2ct

Klaus

 

[AprilM]

Wow. It's the human condition to resist change . . . but this fellow
apparently has no tolerance for change whatsoever.

 

[Amy E. Baggott]

What I want to know is why Microsoft did away with user-level security and
workgroups in Access 2007. This is the primary reason we have not converted
our database from Access 2003. Before we set up a workgroup with user-level
permissions, the database kept crashing (sometimes several times a day), and
we never could figure out why. Implementing the workgroup not only solved
that, but has other advantages as well. I can limit permission to modify the
design of database objects to the couple of people who actually know what
they are doing. Also, I can set permissions so that the users who are
actually creating and managing the orders can modify the data, but I have
some users who need to see certain data, but I don't want them to actually
touch it. From what I have been told both by our IT people and a seminar I
went to on converting Access 2003 databases to Access 2007 or SQL Server,
Access 2007 has no way to set permissions at the user and object level.
Please tell me I am wrong and tell me how to go about it.

 

[John Spencer MVP]

I believe that as long as you leave the database in Access 2003 format and do
not convert it to an AccDB that you can still use user-level security on the
database. The NEW format does not support user0level security.

John Spencer
Access MVP 2002-2005, 2007-2009
The Hilltop Institute
University of Maryland Baltimore County

 

[Amy E. Baggott]

That's exactly what we have. We installed Office 2007 with the exception of
Access, which we left at 2003. However, there are some features of Access
2007 that would be really useful (such as filtering reports on the fly
instead of having multiple versions of one report depending on how you want
it filtered and/or sorted) that you can't use if it stays in Access 2003.
Also, it means we have to make sure import/export files get converted to the
right version. Any idea why MS did away with user-level permissions? They
are incredibly useful in a mult-user, multi-skill-level environment.

 

[Douglas J. Steele]

You've misinterpretted what John's suggesting.

You can use Access 2007 and still have User Level Security as long as you
don't convert your applications from MDB files to the new ACCDB format.

I can't answer on Microsoft's behalf, but Access User-Level Security really
wasn't very secure. Like a screen door, it may have kept honest people out,
but anyone who wanted to get at the data could do so without any trouble.

 

[David W. Fenton]

User level security works on Access 2007 mdb format too.

Correct. It is only ACCDB format that does not support it. Given
that the same version of ACE is opening both, it's quite clear that
this is a pretty minor limitation on the file format functionality,
and not at all a limitation of the ACE itself.