kurttrail said:And I'm not really anti-MS, I'm pro-consumer-choice, and MS just
happens to be the biggest obstacle in the way of Consumer Choice.
Robert said:You know. You can go buy an Apple computer tomorrow running OS X.
I've got an iBook right here on the desk besides the computer I'm
using now and its very nice.
One thing though. It has these problems with buggy code that require
you to download periodic updates. There is this especially nasty one
with an exploit in how it handles DHCP.
Robert said:Yes. Says me. Based on my observations.
I thought we were being adult
in this thread and respecting others rights to hold an opinion?
Not at all, if "slacking" is what it is.
http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=4078
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=228176
Yes. I'm well aware its fixed in mozilla, before you ask.
You know, what, if I was actually an American, I might understand
what that reference to Mr Bush meant.
Obviously, not being a Microsoft employee, I can't comment on their
internal decision making process. None of us have any way of knowing,
for example, if MS looked at the ISS fix and rejected using it for
some reason do we?
ISS may have something released and that _is_ great, but that doesn't
mean that MS haven't had problems.
US Gov't. MS is still an American company. The Justice Dept. or
even Homeland Security, since it's MS's OS that has been the one
that has
been exploited, time & again, at the expense of the security of the
general public.
Melissa, Code Red, Slammer, Blaster, Sobig, Swen, Bagle. It's MS's
fat-assed monopoly target that's putting the general public at risk.
Hmmm or people not keeping their systems patched and up to date; as
that would have prevented most of the problems you note above. That
list right there only needs, oooh, every other virus on the planet
adding to it, and it would be a list of viruses I've _never_ caught.
Actually, lets look at Melissa - that is a complete human problem,
that does not rely on any "exploitable" code at all. The others
except bagle, I know the exploits used were all patched prior to the
virus hitting. Some of the exploits, e.g. the RPC one blaster uses,
are very disappointing, thats for sure; IMO Microsoft have some
questions to answer on that one at least.
Bagle, I know nothing about and can't be bothered to go and look up
right now, so I'll let you have that one.
And now MS is dragging of their feet on this address bar exploit!
How many times does a target have to get hit before ya'll wake up and
smell the coffee?!
[snip]
Are you telling me no one has ever pulled the wool over your eyes?
No. Where did I claim that?
I can however say I've never been fooled
by an email borne virus or worm. Anyone who still clicks on
attatchments named "Naughty pictures of Anna Kornikova hot
stuff.jpg.exe.com.not.a.virus.this.time.no.really.honest.exe.jpg.bmp.vbs
"
deserves everything they get.
You call BS on something so easily provable? Here is a free example:
Go take a look at the origins of the "419" scam. I'll be here waiting
for your apology when you've researched a little and found out
exactly how OS dependant it is.
And actually Kurt, this may shock you, but I was talking in a wider
frame than just computing. Guess what, there were scams and exploits
around before we even had computers in people's homes. You'll find
that out while you do some research on the origins of the 419 scam.
If you want to know more about it all, visit www.snopes.com sometime
and see for yourself.
kurttrail said:Will the Apple OS run of my PC? Does the Apple OS run all the
programs I've purchased over the years? Will I have to give up my
computer education up to this point to start from scratch with
another OS? Can I afford to give up the computer system I've built
up over the years?
And your point is?
Robert said:You know. You can go buy an Apple computer tomorrow running OS X.
I've got an iBook right here on the desk besides the computer I'm
using now and its very nice.
One thing though. It has these problems with buggy code that require
you to download periodic updates. There is this especially nasty one
with an exploit in how it handles DHCP.
kurttrail said:Your anecdotal evidence?
What about "Says you," isn't respectful?
It means you can overhear many things, doesn't make them true.
Obviously, not being a Microsoft employee, I can't comment on their
internal decision making process. None of us have any way of knowing,
for example, if MS looked at the ISS fix and rejected using it for
some reason do we?
It's seems to do good enough, until such time MS finishes their own.
It would be the first time MS would have to reissue a patch.
ISS may have something released and that _is_ great, but that doesn't
mean that MS haven't had problems.
Again, if MS is actually having problems [total supposition] the patch
is good enough for the short term.
I asked a question. You asked about investigating the general public
for being their own menace. Just want to make sure you aren't being
Holier-than-thou about it.
Goody for you, but is that because you smarter than the people that
did fall for it?
For what, I did qualify my statement, and one example, doesn't
invalidate my statement. Yes a scam can be perpetrated on anyone on
any OS, but as for worms viruses & exploits those are generally
platform specific.
Robert said:My opinion. Based on observation.
Its tone for a start.
[...]
It means you can overhear many things, doesn't make them true.
Did you look at the links I provided. I think the mozilla dev crew
producing a fix for the issue makes it a little more than
"Overheard", Kurt.
Or do you think they are admitting to a bug they
don't have to make things look better for a browser they are
competing with?
Obviously, not being a Microsoft employee, I can't comment on their
internal decision making process. None of us have any way of
knowing, for example, if MS looked at the ISS fix and rejected
using it for some reason do we?
It's seems to do good enough, until such time MS finishes their own.
It would be the first time MS would have to reissue a patch.
ISS may have something released and that _is_ great, but that
doesn't mean that MS haven't had problems.
Again, if MS is actually having problems [total supposition] the
patch is good enough for the short term.
<kurt>
Says You.
</kurt>
Quite. I was trying to point out that the most exploited OS is
"Brainware", the one in all our heads. That of course doesn't make
the times MS fell down on the job ok.
Robert said:Obviously not. There is a price to be paid for "switching". There is
a price to pay to run XP in a more secure mode, and many people are
unwilling to pay that much.
That there isn't a panacea out there.
kurttrail said:Thank you for proving my point! What percentage of computer users
were under threat of this AppleOS DHCP exploit? 2 to 4%! Not 95%!
Now say there were 5 PCOS companies out there, and for the sake of
argument let's say that they share the PCOS market equally, what
percentage of users are potentially at risk by an exploit of any one
given companies OS? That's right! 20%. Not 95%. So which PCOS
market would be a safer for the general public, a market with one big
fat-assed OS, or one with multiple OS where the risks are spread out
over multiple targets?
Shenan said:Although this discussion is a bit interesting, I have to bring up the
point that not many people are disagreeing on the actual points
given, but their interpretation of the points. A minor flaw, but
certainly one seen in this thread.
Also - I would like to point out that while the suggestion of
diversification could be considered valid in a security point of
view, do those suggesting it have any plan of action to help push
this suggestion into reality or are they "out of ideas" when it comes
to teaching the masses how to "think differently"? (*grin*)
The reason I bring that up is that the majority of users I know have
trouble doing the simplest of tasks on a computer - no matter their
OS - learning something "new" to them is a daunting task. Interest -
to say the least - is not there.
Shenan Stanley wrote:
Although this discussion is a bit interesting, I have to bring up the
point that not many people are disagreeing on the actual points
given, but their interpretation of the points. A minor flaw, but
certainly one seen in this thread.
Also - I would like to point out that while the suggestion of
diversification could be considered valid in a security point of
view, do those suggesting it have any plan of action to help push
this suggestion into reality or are they "out of ideas" when it comes
to teaching the masses how to "think differently"? (*grin*)
The reason I bring that up is that the majority of users I know have
trouble doing the simplest of tasks on a computer - no matter their
OS - learning something "new" to them is a daunting task. Interest -
to say the least - is not there.
What? You want a detailed plan on how'd I think MS should be broken
up?
Shenan said:That's up to you..
You seem to throw forth (a lot) that breaking Microsoft up (in some
unknown form) would make the world a more secure place and somehow
end their "monopoly" on the OS market.. Just how would Microsoft
have to be split up that would somehow create more competition and/or
less of a monopoly of some division of the broken up company?
Jupiter said:Shenan;
You may be better off to drop it.
I did when he showed his true self with his name calling.
Kurt's goal is apparently to keep his name on the Microsoft page with
the longest thread.
Note #6 on this link:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/default.mspx
His excessive cross posting helps him further his goal.
He is also very free to suggest others make their own property "Open
Source".
Doubtful he set the proper example by giving all his services/property
away for free.
.
kurttrail said:But what you should notice is that none of the guys argueing against
me has even bother to answer you, as they were really only to try to
get me off my topic, to protect their beloved MS.
Jupiter said:Shenan;
You may be better off to drop it.
I did when he showed his true self with his name calling.
Kurt's goal is apparently to keep his name on the Microsoft page with
the longest thread.
Note #6 on this link:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/default.mspx
His excessive cross posting helps him further his goal.
He is also very free to suggest others make their own property "Open
Source".
Doubtful he set the proper example by giving all his services/property
away for free.
Robert said:Actually, I was in bed asleep and then at work all day. The world is
a very big place Kurt and not all of us live in the same timezone as
you.
And I don't see the point of continuing a "discussion" with someone
who has such a narrow view of the world. Good day to you sir.
"[T]he link is formatted
Paul said:microsoft.public.security news group, kurttrail
"[T]he link is formatted
Please don't feed the trolls, if you do, they tend to hang around.
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