Memory woes

[usshopkins]

Hi Everyone,

I am having problems with 3 out of 4 systems. They contain
PCCHIPS P25G mother boards with an Intel 478 3.4GHZ chip installed. In
each system is (2) 512MB PNY DDR400 memory modules. Three of the
systems reboot with heavy memory usage after about 15 minutes. Once
Windows XP reboots it states that Windows has recovered from a serious
error. If I swap the memory from a broken system with the working
system the working system then fails and the broken one works. However,
if I remove one of the 512MB chips from each system everything works
fine. It's only when I have (2) 512MB chips installed.

Any ideas where to start looking? The way I see it I'm either faced
with 3 bad motherboards, 3 sets of bad memory, 3 marginal sets of
memory, or 3 sets of marginal motherboards. Or maybe the motherboards
and memory are both marginal and together they have issues.

Thanks,

Sam

 

[dawg]

BIOS update?

 

[usshopkins]

Its the most current bios for the board. =(

 

[nobody]

Hi Everyone,

I am having problems with 3 out of 4 systems. They contain
PCCHIPS P25G mother boards with an Intel 478 3.4GHZ chip installed. In
each system is (2) 512MB PNY DDR400 memory modules. Three of the
systems reboot with heavy memory usage after about 15 minutes. Once
Windows XP reboots it states that Windows has recovered from a serious
error. If I swap the memory from a broken system with the working
system the working system then fails and the broken one works. However,
if I remove one of the 512MB chips from each system everything works
fine. It's only when I have (2) 512MB chips installed.

Any ideas where to start looking? The way I see it I'm either faced
with 3 bad motherboards, 3 sets of bad memory, 3 marginal sets of
memory, or 3 sets of marginal motherboards. Or maybe the motherboards
and memory are both marginal and together they have issues.

Thanks,

Sam

PCCHIPS has always been marginal. As for your issue, looks like
something might be overheating. P4 3.4 could double as a space
heater, and the heat it generates may affect any part of the system.
Chipset? RAM? Checked the fan(s)? Case temp? Cables in the way of
the air flow?

NNN

 

[Del Cecchi]

Its the most current bios for the board. =(

My guess is there is something marginal about the timings on the "bad"
dimms. So if there is only one, the loading is a little less and so it
makes the timings. Put two in and they fail. Can you adjust the timings
in the Bios or something. Or underclock a little?

del

 

[George Macdonald]

Hi Everyone,

I am having problems with 3 out of 4 systems. They contain
PCCHIPS P25G mother boards with an Intel 478 3.4GHZ chip installed. In
each system is (2) 512MB PNY DDR400 memory modules. Three of the
systems reboot with heavy memory usage after about 15 minutes. Once
Windows XP reboots it states that Windows has recovered from a serious
error. If I swap the memory from a broken system with the working
system the working system then fails and the broken one works. However,
if I remove one of the 512MB chips from each system everything works
fine. It's only when I have (2) 512MB chips installed.

Any ideas where to start looking? The way I see it I'm either faced
with 3 bad motherboards, 3 sets of bad memory, 3 marginal sets of
memory, or 3 sets of marginal motherboards. Or maybe the motherboards
and memory are both marginal and together they have issues.

Are you running with "Auto" SPD memory timings? Have you run any memory
tests? I usually run memtest86+ www.memtest.org for a couple of passes
before installing Windows and then Prime95 Torture Test
http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm for at least a good half hour before I
figure the system is stable to proceed further. You may find that the good
system fails then.

It's not unusual to have to back off on memory timings when you add DIMMs
-- increased load on the memory channel -- though at just two that's
cutting it a bit fine. Try backing of some of the timings to see if it
helps... try CAS Latency first. The mfr programmed SPD settings *can* be
on the optimistic side.

You could also try a different brand of DIMM, say Crucial, and if it works
better get on PNY's case.

 

[The little lost angel]

Any ideas where to start looking? The way I see it I'm either faced
with 3 bad motherboards, 3 sets of bad memory, 3 marginal sets of
memory, or 3 sets of marginal motherboards. Or maybe the motherboards
and memory are both marginal and together they have issues.

Having had poor experiences with PNY and knowing PCChip's excellent
reputation for being crap, I'll say both :/

As George suggested, your best course of action now is to get a pair
of reputable DIMM from Crucial/Corsair/Kingston and see if the system
acts up the same. If it doesn't, then it's either bad memory or bad
PNY/PCchips combination. If it still fails, then it's PCChips.

 

[usshopkins]

I was running with Auto SPD and then tried to back settings off. The
CAS of the ram is 3. I tried different combos of the memory settings
and to no avail. All 3 bad systems have been running fine for 2 days
now with only 1 DIMM installed.

 

[usshopkins]

The case has two fans, the CPU has a fan and the PS has a fan. I can
get it to fail by closing my program that's using a lot of ram so I
dont think it's heat unless some heat is making the memory go marginal
on me. It blows my mind that it works flawlessly with one DIMM but two
make it crash.

 

[fredman]

The case has two fans, the CPU has a fan and the PS has a fan. I can
get it to fail by closing my program that's using a lot of ram so I
dont think it's heat unless some heat is making the memory go marginal
on me. It blows my mind that it works flawlessly with one DIMM but two
make it crash.

Have you reversed the order of DIMM placement with similar results? As
above, I'm leaning toward the marginal reliability of that mboard, or
its incompatibilty with that brand/type of DIMM (not having heard of
PCCHIPs before this post - what chipset?). I would also not rule out
heat until you actually measure CPU/board temps under load. Intel
2.8mhz and above run NOTORIOUSLY hot, and usually require a rethink of
stockbox cooling for trouble-free performance. Good luck.

 

[Johannes]

Having had poor experiences with PNY and knowing PCChip's excellent
reputation for being crap, I'll say both :/

As George suggested, your best course of action now is to get a pair
of reputable DIMM from Crucial/Corsair/Kingston and see if the system
acts up the same. If it doesn't, then it's either bad memory or bad
PNY/PCchips combination. If it still fails, then it's PCChips.

Agreed. And take ESD precautions when installing memory, i.e. fingers off!

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

I was running with Auto SPD and then tried to back settings off. The
CAS of the ram is 3. I tried different combos of the memory settings
and to no avail. All 3 bad systems have been running fine for 2 days
now with only 1 DIMM installed.

Have you tried changing the BIOS' 1T/2T setting to 2T? I recently had
a Kingston PC3200 module that worked error-free only after I did that,
and slowing the other settings didn't make a difference.

OTOH I've had good luck with PNY PC3200 RAM with chips marked "BRAVO",
including at 3-3-3-8 even though their SPD says they're 3-4-4-8.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

As George suggested, your best course of action now is to get a pair
of reputable DIMM from Crucial/Corsair/Kingston and see if the system
acts up the same. If it doesn't, then it's either bad memory or bad
PNY/PCchips combination. If it still fails, then it's PCChips.

But is Kingston reputable??? My failure rate with its ValueRAM has
been about 30%, maybe half that if I configure the BIOS manually. For
my last purchase I went through three of them before getting a good
512MB PC3200 module. The first failed at all settings, except when the
bus speed was dropped below 400 MHz, the second module needed the 1T/2T
parameter to be set to 2T, but the third module was OK.

OTOH I've had only one bad PNY (PC133 with solder blobed on some gold
contacts, which the CompUSA manager said wasn't a defect), and all my
512MB PC3200 PNY modules (chips marked "BRAVO") tested fine at
2.5-3-3-8 and 1T, despite their SPDs being set for 3-4-4-8.

I can't say about Corsair because I've bought only one of their DIMMs,
but it was OK.

 

[The little lost angel]

But is Kingston reputable??? My failure rate with its ValueRAM has
been about 30%, maybe half that if I configure the BIOS manually. For
my last purchase I went through three of them before getting a good
512MB PC3200 module. The first failed at all settings, except when the
bus speed was dropped below 400 MHz, the second module needed the 1T/2T
parameter to be set to 2T, but the third module was OK.

OTOH I've had only one bad PNY (PC133 with solder blobed on some gold
contacts, which the CompUSA manager said wasn't a defect), and all my
512MB PC3200 PNY modules (chips marked "BRAVO") tested fine at
2.5-3-3-8 and 1T, despite their SPDs being set for 3-4-4-8.

I can't say about Corsair because I've bought only one of their DIMMs,
but it was OK.

YMMV but for me, Kingston's been a pretty good brand and I do
recommend it for a lot of my friends. Partly due to the ease of
getting things exchanged 1 for 1 with the local distributor. As for
PNY, a friend of mine took the chance to assemble a bunch of PC with
them due to the price. Let's just say he has been telling everybody
not to bother with a double digit failure percentage.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

On 19 Mar 2006 06:28:17 -0800, "larry moe 'n curly"

YMMV but for me, Kingston's been a pretty good brand and I do
recommend it for a lot of my friends. Partly due to the ease of
getting things exchanged 1 for 1 with the local distributor. As for
PNY, a friend of mine took the chance to assemble a bunch of PC with
them due to the price. Let's just say he has been telling everybody
not to bother with a double digit failure percentage.

Were those Kingston modules ValueRAM, or were they from their costlier
product lines? Because, except for that PNY with the solder blob on
it, I've never had a failure with modules whose chips had the chip
manufacturer's normal part numbers printed on them, but such modules
now usually cost several times as much as others. I trust memory
modules so little that I test each one for several days in a couple of
different machines.

 

[George Macdonald]

But is Kingston reputable??? My failure rate with its ValueRAM has
been about 30%, maybe half that if I configure the BIOS manually. For
my last purchase I went through three of them before getting a good
512MB PC3200 module. The first failed at all settings, except when the
bus speed was dropped below 400 MHz, the second module needed the 1T/2T
parameter to be set to 2T, but the third module was OK.

OTOH I've had only one bad PNY (PC133 with solder blobed on some gold
contacts, which the CompUSA manager said wasn't a defect), and all my
512MB PC3200 PNY modules (chips marked "BRAVO") tested fine at
2.5-3-3-8 and 1T, despite their SPDs being set for 3-4-4-8.

I can't say about Corsair because I've bought only one of their DIMMs,
but it was OK.

I think the bottom line is you can get a dud from anybody - I saw enough
reports of Kingston's ValueRAM to avoid it; fortunately their premium
modules were on sale at the time for a coupla $$ more.

From what I've been reading of Corsair, their SPD timings might be a little
err, optimistic... especially with s939 AMD CPUs.

Even Crucial can be hit or miss, especially since they started selling
DIMMs with other mfr's devices - I got a printer SO-DIMM from them with
Samsung parts and it would not work but the replacement part with Micron
chips was fine. From what I've seen, their DIMMs with Samsung parts need
"loose" timings and chance of 1T command rate is not good. The lifetime
warranty is useful.

 

[Trent]

YMMV but for me, Kingston's been a pretty good brand and I do
recommend it for a lot of my friends.

Frankly, I think they suck. You never know whose third tier, gray market
chips they're going to put on them. I'd rather specify and buy DIMMS from
manufacturers who make their own chips as well - Samsung, Crucial/Micron,
Infineon, etc.

 

[Alan Walpool]

After reading this thread it really makes you wonder about memory. I
have purchased many different brands of memory over the years and I
have so called brand name memory to fail. Anyway the promise was that
memory manufacturing is good now you did not need ECC memory or even
parity memory because the memory failure rate was so low.

Anyway I try to purchase motherboards that support ECC but this is
hard to find these days. Almost impossible with AMD64 consumer chips.
It is interesting the last motherboard I had that was supposed to
support ECC did not support ECC.

I have read similar threads like this one and it make the case even
more for ECC memory and ECC memory support. It sure would save running
memtest86+.

Whatever I guess you call this progress. ;-\

Alan

 

[The little lost angel]

Were those Kingston modules ValueRAM, or were they from their costlier
product lines? Because, except for that PNY with the solder blob on
it, I've never had a failure with modules whose chips had the chip
manufacturer's normal part numbers printed on them, but such modules
now usually cost several times as much as others. I trust memory
modules so little that I test each one for several days in a couple of
different machines.

Definitely the cheaper ValueRAM I started on them simply because at
that time, they were the only ones cheap yet with lifetime warranty
and a local policy of no hassle one to one exchange. Since I've very
little problems with them, I've continued using/recommending them. But
bear in mind I come into contact with, including those for friends,
only a small number of Kingston modules over the years.

In comparison, my friend who tried the PNY does something in the order
of hundreds of computers in a year. I asked him after my first post on
this issue and he claims that he has used close to 2000 DIMMs in the
past year including PNY, Patriot(their cheap PDP modules), Twinmos and
Kingston. Kingston has given him the least grief, PDP and Twinmos
while not perfect has been generally ok while nothing quite bit him
like PNY did. Personally I must add that it could just be his luck
with a bad batch.

 

[nobody]

After reading this thread it really makes you wonder about memory. I
have purchased many different brands of memory over the years and I
have so called brand name memory to fail. Anyway the promise was that
memory manufacturing is good now you did not need ECC memory or even
parity memory because the memory failure rate was so low.

Anyway I try to purchase motherboards that support ECC but this is
hard to find these days. Almost impossible with AMD64 consumer chips.
It is interesting the last motherboard I had that was supposed to
support ECC did not support ECC.

I have read similar threads like this one and it make the case even
more for ECC memory and ECC memory support. It sure would save running
memtest86+.

Whatever I guess you call this progress. ;-\

Alan

Go with socket 940 - they all support ECC. In fact, almost all
registered memory (req'd for 940) comes with ECC.