Media Player Classic, Real Alternative, Irfanview -- mini report

[Richard Steinfeld]

I uninstalled prior versions of these three products last night, and
installed the current versions: all running on my Windows ME computer.

My particular interest right now is in playing radio programs from the
internet sourced from public radio stations in the USA. Audio formats
used here are mostly Real, with a little MP3. There's also OGG Vorbis,
already in use by the Pacifica Radio Network. This is of particular
concern to us here because it's the only open-source compression system
that's got a shot at becoming a standard.

I began with Irfanview and its associated audio plugins. My primary use
of Irfanview has been for image viewing and juggling. It's still
outstanding for that, only slicker: a great piece of software. As an
audio player, though, it seemed barely adequate. Handling was klutzy,
and I could swear that I heard distortion on my MP3 sample. Note that
poor handling in Irfanview is no detriment: it's just an ancillary
trick. As an image slinger, it's almost without peer: great handling
superb programming.

I downloaded Real Alternative (filename 142.exe, which came bundled with
Media Player Classic 6.4.8.4, which I understand is over two years old.
(I downloaded it via a couple of associated links and I'm afraid that I
forgot where I wound up -- a hazard of working late at night. A scan
with Avast revealed no embedded viruses.)

The whole shebang works very nicely. A main frustration from a former
MPC incarnation has been fixed -- that is: the yanked volume control.
I've found that this program had grabbed the .wav slider on the Windows
mixer to half-mast with each play, whether the mixer was on-screen or
not. Worse, another poster said that in his installation, MPC completely
shut off the audio when playing MP3s. So, when downloading streams to
another medium, the user had to immediately load the Windows mixer, get
the stream feeding, and immediately yank the .wav slider back up.

This reminded me of the insanity that I faced when I worked in radio --
getting the network Boston Symphony Orchestra concert onto my station
using a battery-powered clock that was always wrong. I'm good at this
stuff, but I don't enjoy it.

The "new" MPC leaves those settings alone -- at least the way I've got
it set up. In one of the MPC menus, you can access a master volume
control which probably imposes its setting on one of the loudness
controls in the Windows mixer. At any rate, the download now goes calmer.

All of this software is running nice and securely on my box.
These problems have been eliminated. MPC feels more stable to me.

Is this helpful?

Richard

 

[J44xm]

["Richard Steinfeld"; Sat, 16 Jul 2005 00:10:57 GMT]

Is this helpful?

It's a nice write-up. Thanks.

 

[fraigo]

I uninstalled prior versions of these three products last night, and
installed the current versions: all running on my Windows ME computer.

All of this software is running nice and securely on my box.
These problems have been eliminated. MPC feels more stable to me.

Is this helpful?

Richard

Always. Thanks Richard. Btw, where does the realalternative codec come
from (who wrote it)? Been trying to figure that one out for a while. A
cookie's in it for you if you've the answer.

-Sparky

 

[B. Otsing]

Btw, where does the realalternative codec come from (who wrote it)?
Been trying to figure that one out for a while. A cookie's in it for
you if you've the answer.

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

That's good to know.
The codec set seems to appear out of the ether.

I like cookies made of flour and sugar; I do not like cookies made of bits.

Richard

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

Always. Thanks Richard. Btw, where does the realalternative codec come
from (who wrote it)? Been trying to figure that one out for a while. A
cookie's in it for you if you've the answer.

-Sparky

I'll just add that we've had discussions here and gone round and round
about Real Alternative, where it comes from, if it's, in fact,
proprietary, and whether it contains spyware or not (I believe that it
does) and how to neutralize it if it does. You might like to know about
this. I feel all worn out on the subject, but I thought that I'd mention
this in case you're new to the issue. Searching back through Google on
this group over a year or more should produce all the discussions.

The program JetAudio was brought up in this concext, too. JA is the only
other program I know of that'll render Real streams (also by using the
RA file set as a "plug-in"). JA is much slicker than MPC and has an
equalizer -- but making its money from Digital Rights Management, it
also probably contains some form of sypware for its own purposes -- one
file named "Rotuma" was discussed by another poster a while back, too.

Richard

 

[Chief Suspect]

Btw, where does the realalternative codec come from (who wrote it)?
Been trying to figure that one out for a while. A cookie's in it for
you if you've the answer.

[/QUOTE]======================================

The answer seems to be: Real Codecs, whether from legit REAL, Inc, or
by way of various Codec packages, seem to be identical. I recall that
first the 'alternative' to REAL, Inc was a compilation called ..
Real-At-Last. It was accomplished by installing a bonafide RealPlayer,
then DELETING, not UNINSTALLING, the RealPlayer folder itself .. and
then zipping together a package of the remaining Codecs from the
Common Files folder together with exported HKEYs from RegEdit. Anyone
getting this package could manually place the codecs back where they
were located, then execute the HKEYs to merge them into the registry,
and .. Voila! ... any MPlayer, etc could be pointed to .RA and .RM
files for playing them. RealAlternative today is but a slicker
self-installation package of that same premise.

 

[Harvey Van Sickle]

On 19 Jul 2005, Chief Suspect wrote
>======================================

The answer seems to be: Real Codecs, whether from legit REAL,
Inc, or by way of various Codec packages, seem to be identical. I
recall that first the 'alternative' to REAL, Inc was a compilation
called .. Real-At-Last. It was accomplished by installing a
bonafide RealPlayer, then DELETING, not UNINSTALLING, the
RealPlayer folder itself .. and then zipping together a package of
the remaining Codecs from the Common Files folder together with
exported HKEYs from RegEdit. Anyone getting this package could
manually place the codecs back where they were located, then
execute the HKEYs to merge them into the registry, and .. Voila!
... any MPlayer, etc could be pointed to .RA and .RM files for
playing them. RealAlternative today is but a slicker
self-installation package of that same premise.[/QUOTE]

I've read somewhere that the codecs extracted this way were --
surprisingly -- nt proprietorial, and that the resulting "non-
RealPlayer" packages which rely on them are thus both legally and
ethically legitimate.

Do you know if that's the case, or did the stripping-out of the codecs
capture copyrighted/proprietorial codecs?

 

[Chief Suspect]

[snip]
I've read somewhere that the codecs extracted this way were --
surprisingly -- nt proprietorial, and that the resulting "non-
RealPlayer" packages which rely on them are thus both legally and
ethically legitimate.

Do you know if that's the case, or did the stripping-out of the codecs
capture copyrighted/proprietorial codecs?

===============

Haven't seen that myself. Yet, the plug-in .DLLs from the earlier
Real-at-Last and the present RealAlternative packages have the same
names and sizes as those being employed in legitimate REAL, Inc.
installations. These are the adjunct files starting with
pn_________.DLL, rn_________.DLL, and rp__________.DLL .. among others.
As many have finally come to realize, there exists NO standalone
media player that is capable of rendering REAL audio and/or video files
except by use of bonafide REAL codecs, developed by REAL, Inc.
I cannot imagine that REAL, Inc. is offering gratuitous free use of
their codecs for obvious and successful competition with their own
products which they sell. But, a further comment is needed here.

Even the freeware versions of RealPlayer, RealOne (whatever) are
exceedingly insidious, and they work myriad tentacles throughout your
registry data. It is tedious to remove or uninstall RealPlayer and
actually void all instances of any residue files, plus .. it is a
perplexing puzzle why Real, Inc insists on aggrevating the end-user
with unwanted auto-pop-ups and icons which add to the drain on
computer resources. And further, Real does indeed call home.. if you
are not knowledgeably careful to prevent it. Personally, I am
grateful for the likes of RealAlternative; Real, Inc. brings any
ills upon their own heads for such nefarious and secretive workings.
Just MHO.

 

[Harvey Van Sickle]

On 19 Jul 2005, Chief Suspect wrote

[snip]
I've read somewhere that the codecs extracted this way were --
surprisingly -- nt proprietorial, and that the resulting "non-
RealPlayer" packages which rely on them are thus both legally and
ethically legitimate.

Do you know if that's the case, or did the stripping-out of the
codecs capture copyrighted/proprietorial codecs?

===============

Haven't seen that myself. Yet, the plug-in .DLLs from the earlier
Real-at-Last and the present RealAlternative packages have the
same names and sizes as those being employed in legitimate REAL,
Inc. installations.
-snip-

As many have finally come to realize, there exists NO standalone
media player that is capable of rendering REAL audio and/or video
files except by use of bonafide REAL codecs, developed by REAL,
Inc.

Ah, but that's the central issue, isn't it: were the codecs actually
*developed* by REAL, Inc., or did the company use non-copyrighted
codecs when they initially designed RealPlayer?

I cannot imagine that REAL, Inc. is offering gratuitous free use
of their codecs for obvious and successful competition with their
own products which they sell.

Neither can I, which is why I suspect they either (a) didn't develop
the codecs, or (b) failed to protect them legally. The former seems
more likely than the latter.

-snip-

Personally, I am grateful for the likes of RealAlternative; Real,
Inc. brings any ills upon their own heads for such nefarious and
secretive workings. Just MHO.

Oh, my view too -- I've used Real Alternative for some time now, and
have recommended it to many people, all of whom have been extremely
grateful to stop RealPlayer's batch of intrusively annoying habits.

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

Even the freeware versions of RealPlayer, RealOne (whatever) are
exceedingly insidious, and they work myriad tentacles throughout your
registry data. It is tedious to remove or uninstall RealPlayer and
actually void all instances of any residue files, plus .. it is a
perplexing puzzle why Real, Inc insists on aggrevating the end-user
with unwanted auto-pop-ups and icons which add to the drain on
computer resources. And further, Real does indeed call home.. if you
are not knowledgeably careful to prevent it. Personally, I am
grateful for the likes of RealAlternative; Real, Inc. brings any
ills upon their own heads for such nefarious and secretive workings.
Just MHO.

We've been round and round on the Real Networks workarounds a few times
on this ng; I feel rather worn out on this subject. The last time, it
seemed that the Real Alternative codec files actually contained spyware,
and I had already discovered that:
- All the files in the set bore the trademark of Real Networks embedded
within the code, and,
- One of the files consisted of the Real Networks logo.
In other words, it began to look like the source of the Real Alternative
file set was probably an alternative put into space by Real Networks
themselves!

As far as the behavior of Real's mega-gargantuan "official" programs are
concerned, I can provide an explanation. The size of Real Player is
staggering -- I think it's on the order of Microsoft Office. When I
tracked the installlation, I found that more than 5,000 changed had been
made to my system. So, what's this all about?

First, let's understand what business Real Networks is in: they're in
the advertising business. The sole business purpose of Real technology
is to "serve" you with advertising during every rendition of the
content. That's the reason why, in most cases, you cannot save a Real
file. When you replay it, you're actually re-loading the material, and
this includes a re-diversion to Real's site, from which you are "served"
fresh thought control.

When you install Real Player, you are converting your computer into an
advertising machine -- a machine that you paid for -- under the control
of Real Networks. It is, in effect, a clever "theft of service," in
which you, the end user, are a willing participant. The detriment to
ordinary daily functioning of the machine is significant. If not for
Real Alternative I'd have to abandon all the Real-encoded material that
I download every day from public broadcasters in Chicago, San Francisco,
Boston, and -- are you ready for this: the BBC.

Richard