attilathehun1 said:
Yeah, I was thinking about that, but this ATI Radeon HD 3870 is so long and
huge I don't think it's the right card to put into the case I using for it or
even this mobo. Anyhow, isn't this an Intel chipset card, the ATI Radeon HD
3870? Oh no, I see Radeon and that means AMD chipset?
PCI Express is more agnostic than previous slot technologies. You should be
able to mix whatever PCi Express video card you want with whatever chipset
you want. I see no evidence of "brandedness" at the hardware level.
The only time brand matters, is when using two cards running in SLI or
Crossfire, and brand is enforced for business reasons. Two Nvidia cards
run in SLI on an Nvidia chipset motherboard. Two ATI cards run in
Crossfire, on either an ATI chipset or an Intel chipset board. But
these are business decisions made by the companies, to restrict where
the drivers work. And the drivers still allow two cards to connect to
four monitors (i.e. not run in Crossfire or SLI) on any chipset. Crossfire
and SLI, are where two graphics cards work on half the image, thereby
doubling the performance level. And for business reasons, to increase
chipset sales, the drivers only accept a request to do Crossfire or
SLI, when the motherboard chipset matches their desired membership.
None of the previous paragraph is about the hardware level. One PCI
Express chipset, can talk to any other PCI Express video card. In the
same way that any brand of SATA hard drive can talk to any motherboard.
I don't try to mix a Seagate hard drive with a Seagate motherboard,
because there is no such thing.
All conformance stories have their exceptions. And in a way, the story
is similar to the SATA story. There are some 3Gbit/sec SATA drives,
that won't work with certain 1.5Gbit/sec motherboard chipsets. The workaround
is to use a jumper on the hard drive, to "force" the interface down to
1.5Gbit/sec. The interface is supposed to negotiate the connection rate
itself, but sometimes needs to be forced. Video cards have a similar
problem, starting with the 8800GT. The 8800GT is one of the first
cards with a version 2 PCI Express interface on it. To force it down
to version 1 interface mode, you flash a new video card BIOS into the
card. That fixes it, by reducing the rate to "normal". But again,
I don't consider that to be fixable by a "branding" rule - trying to
stick to one manufacturer of hardware, won't guarantee that problem
won't happen. ATI avoided that problem, by having their cards start
in version 1 mode.
To give an example of where your thinking might go wrong, Nvidia had
a problem between its NF3 chipset and its 6800 family of video cards.
For about a year, users suffered from excessive stuttering in game
play. Nvidia tried to fix it with a driver update, but some users
basically had to give up on that hardware mix, because they could
not get satisfaction. if you used a "branding" rule, and stuck
with the two Nvidia products, you could have been stuck with a mess
like that.
And that is why I don't try to use simple branding rules. Because
they don't work. If you are concerned about a particular product,
check the reviews (like on Newegg), as sometimes a reviewer will
mention one of these messes that happened. That is the best way to
tell - use your search engine. Don't trust the manufacturer to
do the right thing, because you'll be disappointed every time.
I agree with the longness of the video card being an issue. For
some of the high performance cards, they are rather long. For
example, my Sonata case, won't accept a number of them, because
I'd have to hack saw out a piece of metal to make them fit.
These questions are one at a time that I'd like to be answered if you
could? For example, this is question #1.
Ok, now for question #2. I've kinda decided on a cheaper card from
newegg.com. I'm deciding between 2 different cards.
Here they are: the ECS N8400GS2-512DS GeForce 8400 GS 512MB 64-bit GDDR2
PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card. $42.99 from newegg.com
Or the Asus EN8400GS SILENT/HTP/512M GeForce 8400 GS 512MB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI
Express x16 HDCP Ready Video Card. $49.99 from newegg.com
Now I'll point out the couple of differences I've noticed. The interface is
PCI Express 2.0 x16 with the ECS card , PCI Express x16 with the ASUS card,
only. No 2.0 there on the ASUS.
The Asus card supports version 1 and version 2. I consider this versioning
crap to be nothing but a nuisance. There is no evidence I've seen yet,
like an article comparing them, to justify the introduction of version 2.
Considering both of your example cards are 8400GS, they'll be using the
same GPU chip, and consequently, the PCI Express interface features will be
the same, at the hardware level. The video card BIOS can turn off the
version 2 behavior, so the feature set can be controlled that way. But
this Asus web page suggests that both operating modes are supported.
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=2&l2=6&l3=551&l4=0&model=2094&modelmenu=1
Next difference; the memory clock on the ASUS is 1000 MHz, and only 800MHz
with the ECS.
There are definite differences between video cards, on memory speed and memory
type. Some cards use inferior memory, when compared to others. When I used
the GPUreview.com web site for example, for one line of video cards, I
was able to see a factor of four difference, between the best and the worst
memories being used. I'm not expert enough on the memory types, to
analyse all of them (for example, I haven't read an article on GDDR5,
to understand how it is so much faster than the previous generation).
At least in your example above, both cards use GDDR2, so it will be
easier to compare them, and conclude that one is 25% faster on memory,
than the other.
Next difference; the Asus is certified for Windows Vista and I don't see
the ECS certified for that.
I wonder what the certification process consists of ? Paying Microsoft a
few bucks for a sticker ? Remember, both cards use the same GPU chip, so
they both have the same feature set. Can the Vista OS smell when Microsoft
hasn't received its kickback ?
Packaging; the ASUS comes with a HDTV cable and I don't see that with the
ECS.
Absolutely check the accessories. That is one way I distinguish between
cards. Some have an excellent collection of dongles and cables, for
handling all sorts of situations with the monitors used. It can be an
extra expense to buy the dongles later. (To give an example, one time
I was in a bind, late at night, and paid $50 to a radio/TV store, for
an adapter that was worth about $2. That is why I attach an importance
to getting the adapter in the video card box, so I won't get gouged
like that again.)
One is fanless, the ASUS, the other ECS with a fan.
Which is better for me, do you think?
I might have mentioned before, that fanless cards, sometimes need a
cnmputer case fan mounted next to them, to get enough cooling. I
have two fanless cards, and one of them is unstable in 3D games.
As soon as I put the fan next to it, it was fine.
Just because they made a fanless card, doesn't seem to mean the
cooling is adequate in all cases. You may still need to put an 80mm fan
next to that card. I don't consider that to be a big deal myself,
because I figured out a way to mount the fan. But it requires
an electric drill, hack saw, etc. A DIY solution. You might not
like that. The commercially available fan mounts, aren't that
flexible. Which is why I made my own.
One more thing, I want a card that is AMD compatible. I don't want to go to
AMD's website and try and download the chipset video drivers for the card.
Remember I went to Intel's website, Intel Technologies,
http://support.intel.com and couldn't find the lastest AGP drivers. I don't
want that problem. I mean I went to the website and couldn't even find the
download that I wanted.
Another question, these cards, the AGP slot cards, aren't they outdated a
bit? These new cards are PCI Express, maybe they are compitable with other
chipsets?
Ok, there are about 4 questions I've asked and maybe answering just the
first 2 would be fine. All four questions are bugging me though.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, attilathehun1
Use the drivers that come on the video card CD, to get you started.
I'm sorry I cannot make your end user experience a smooth one -
sometimes you just have to go to the web site, and find the
latest driver. If you don't, you'll have a miserable gaming
experience (like the flickering).
You can pay someone (at your local computer store) to install
the video card, and its drivers. But I think you're clever
enough to find these drivers, or ask someone here to help you.
Remember, there was a time, when I didn't know what the
drivers were, or where to find them, so I needed help too.
Paul
