Major Legal Battle on tuesday 29 March

crazylegs

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Just thought all you dudes out there might want to read this article and keep abreast of the situation as it unfolds, it involves every one of us or will do in some way in the future.:eek:


We need to keep an eye on this one folks. Tuesday we will begin the debate between innovation and Hollywood's rights. This is without a doubt a most important case that will set the tone for the future for us. If you think products like TiVo or the iPod are important to you, then this battle is too.

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At issue in MGM vs. Grokster is whether the makers of file-sharing software should be held liable when people use their products to illegally download copyrighted music and movies.

The court ruled in a 1984 case involving the Sony Betamax videocassette recorder that as long as a technology has a substantial legitimate use, manufacturers cannot be found liable for copyright violations committed by people who use their products. As music, movies and other entertainment became so many 1s and 0s easily reproduced at the touch of a button, the Betamax standard allowed companies to develop CD burners, DVD players and other technologies without fear of being sued every time a customer makes copies of a song or TV show.

Now the entertainment industry wants to change the rules of the game. It has asked the Supreme Court to revise the Betamax standard so that only companies whose technologies' ``primary use'' is legitimate can be shielded from being hauled into court.

The distinction may sound trivial, but Silicon Valley companies say it could jeopardize their ability to create the next big thing.

That's because no one knows exactly what consumers will do with any new technology. If companies risk being sued for developing, say, the next iPod, they might choose to play it safe, according to Lawrence Lessig, the Stanford University law professor who has written extensively about copyright in the digital age.

``The practical effect of the rule that they're trying to get the court to adopt would be to impose extremely high costs on innovation,'' said Lessig.

Jason Krikorian, co-founder of San Mateo's Sling Media, agreed.


I think we can all agree that this is a ruling that can have a tremendous impact on our world. If investors are afraid to put money into a project, or if companies can't be sure that their product is completely controllable- the ideas will die on the design table. Because they will be liable for any illegal actions of the users.

The situation is so bad if the case is lost (in our eyes) that not only would programmers that write File-sharing applications be sued, for writing a software that empowered users to violate copyright, but feasably, Intel could be sued for providing the chip, that powers the PC, that the app runs on! Ka-ching! and the money goes right to those copyright holders. Welcome back to the Dark Ages.

Make sure to read this article in it's entirety and rest assured that everybody will be watching as this situation unfolds. It is really a historical moment.

 

Cache-man

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I think it is rediculous. File sharing apps have many legitimate porposes, such as allowing developers to share their work (either docs, or pics, or music or programs produced by themselves) with a huge audience. It is silly to think of sueing file sharing programmers for others miss-using thier product....in fact, I wonder if the programs were created on machines running versions of Windows...try sueing them instead. lol :).

Really, we could be sued for taping a film off of the telly, but everyone does it, as it is deemed (largely by the public) as 'minor and acceptable'. What is not acceptable is when people then copy and sell these tapes/dvd's/internet screeners.
People should simply be responsible for their actions. I still belive that the major individuals who upload the majority of stuff to file share users illegally should be targeted and publice examples made out of them (this would deter many of the other violators too.

File sharing software is not the root of the problem, it's the individuals that abuse its intented purpose!
 
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I think you can really put a distiction on what programs qualify more as intended for illieagle use then another, most of which is judged when someone has actually been hurt by that program, not really in the intensity at the harm it may cause, and look at third party programs... They are standard on XP, which is now the standard OS that comes most computers you buy. Yet looking at that same program another way is considered a bad thing when its called a trojan... Now yes, with one you must accept the incomming person and the other is done at someone else's request, but both programs built almost exactly the same... Who judges that one was built with less intention to do harm? But thats only dealing with the FTP's.

How about hendering future programs? What about hendering the security of countless computers and networks because people wont know which program to use... I test programs i want to use... I d/l them, and if i find them to be worthy of using on my computers and the computers and companies I am am currently working with. Then i will buy it. But as any body with security+ training classes will tell you. one program is not enough, and I'm am not about to dump a few thousand dollars for corperate versions of these programs w/o doing a review of the product first...

So, of course i would buy less. I dont see that, that is fair to upcomming companies. I pay my dues on what I d/l. It shouldnt be free to always use these programs and songs or movies. But i do agree with the ability to sample products before you buy... Would you buy a car w/o test driving it? seeing how it ran? I worked in marketing... you wouldnt Believe how great a product is by a slogan or good advertisment would you?

Open source software grows the fastest and is much more customizable to each persons needs. Yet I do believe it gives people less insentive to make programs... So as to an answer for this.... I have none. But i do believe further hendering things in the way MGM wants to isnt the right way... least not w/o a clause to even things out. Seems as if doing so would put to much power into one intities hands.. but thats just my opionion...
 
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i would be willing to bet that there is no one person that has a file sharing program, that has not downloaded copyright material on it.

I used to use a P2P fire sharing program (will remain nameless) i admit that i downloaded some stuff from it. then one day i realised that it was exactally like taking a camcorder in to a cinema (i didnt download any movies though) it was illegal. so i quickly stopped using it.

I never once found a legal thing on there.

KGB
 
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I agree with what KGB said anyone who has or is using a file-sharing programme will have used for illegal purposes but what annoys me is how some file sharing programmes try to convince that what you are doing is not illegal. I have been on many websites which says downloading stuff from there programme is not illegal when most of the time it clearly is.

I hate file sharing programmes as they give computers and the people who use them bad reputation. I can't count how many times my mates have said "I download stuff and that I am too cheap to pay for stuff", and it rely does annoy me because of what a minority of people do with there computers it is immediately thought that anyone who uses a computer is one of them.

So if anyone who is reading this who does use a file-sharing programme illegally, stop. You may not think it but it will slowly destroying business because file-sharing will grow and grow as more and more people think that it is OK and when will the people who use the programme draw a line and say stop.

Lastly just think if more and more people download movies or music etc, then less people will be buying the companys products and so as the company sales start to drop and they start to lose money what do you think they will do? They will increase there prices. So people like me and millions like me who don't download will have to pay more.

P.S Just want to make it clear that I do not think the people who make the file-sharing programmes are responsible it is the people who use them.
 

muckshifter

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I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again … European Law clearly states File Sharing Software is NOT illegal … it is the sharing of MP3s, movies & other software that is; because you break copywrite laws.

However, if the USA and other counties get their way you just may find not only will ‘private’ P2P be illegal but you will also be prosecuted.

A considerable amount of large companies use ‘private P2P’ file sharing programs … they do not ‘host’ music, movies or software … and if the proposed ‘amendments’, being considered, come into force, watch the shit hit the fans.

European ISPs fear that individual consumers might be placed on the same level with criminals seeking commercial gain by counterfeiting products. Legal experts have expressed similar concerns, and many feel that a law that would criminalize private P2P use would go too far.

Source: Infoworld
 

floppybootstomp

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I know this great p2p program. It's called the local library ;)

I buy lots of music CD's. I buy as many as those I obtain by other means.

And I've been buying music for a long long time now, I'm one of the idiot fans that keeps the music industry alive.

So if I occasionaly acquire a bunch of mp3's by less than conventional means to check something out - I do not feel guilty.

I will usually then buy an album if I like what I hear. There is quality to consider.

And four quid for a single? Music business is sometimes it's own worst enemy.

As for movies on DVD, I rarely pay full price for one unless it's an absolute must have for me, I usually buy the low and mid price films. The last full price DVD I purchased was Kill Bill 2 for £13.00 at Asdas.

I could go on, but that'll do for now ;)
 

Cache-man

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Everything that Flops just said......I'm exactly the same.
Althought the last full price DVD I bought was the Chili Peppers Greatest Hits.
 
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I use my file-sharing program all the time.

I download and share stuf on my program all the time. I also rent movies and record them before returning. Theres nothing wrong with that. All of these stuf were meant to be free

I think people exadurate about the copyright because in reality copying, recording or w/e is not a threat on society.

Many hardware companies benefit because of that, such as MP3 players, DVD/CD recorders and writers and blank media and without being able to do so these things would be useless and their industry will fall.

The point is, people shouldnt take this too seriously or give it more than it deserves.

However,im aginst selling copied materials. Not because i like the expensive originals but because all of these things were meant to be free :)
 
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Ian

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ocean said:
Many hardware companies benefit because of that, such as MP3 players, DVD/CD recorders and writers and blank media and without being able to do so these things would be useless and their industry will fall.

I can see where you are coming from here, but I don't think it really validates the point you are trying to make. I find it very hypocritical of companies like sony to own a massive Record Label/Film Studio which is very much against piracy, and at the same time promote CD/DVD burners which are very suggestive in their capabilities. I doesn't bother me particularly, but it seems they would like the best of both worlds. All the benefits of selling CD/DVD/MP3 players without any of the negatives.

When MP3 players first came out I don't think there were any legal music download sites, however the end user was penalised and nothing was mentioned to the manufacturers. Again, you can argue its not illegal to "rip" your own CDs, but they know most people weren't doing this when Napster was at its peak.

ocean said:
However,im against selling copied materials. Not because i like the expensive originals but because all of these things were meant to be free :)

I've got no idea how you can justify these things being free I'm afraid, as I wouldn't work for nothing and I'm sure many people wouldn't either. There needs to be a compromise between high costs of DVDs/CDs etc.. and the ease of downloading. There are plenty of unlimited DVD rental places for £12-15/month which I actually think is incredibly reasonable if you are a DVD fanatic.
 
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I guess youre right.

Paying a small amount is ok. The reason that filesharing and copied stuf have a market is because originals were over-priced.

Even now,for some of them, instead of reducing their prices they want to educate people that copying is bad and illigal. However, they beleive that using their customers is ok.Thats especially correct for Americans

Here in my arab country i buy playstation games for 2.6$, while the cheapest original is 26$. I guess if they reduce their price to 10$ ill definetley choose the quality over quantity.

But would anyone listen? i guess most wouldnt unless the works become little old :rolleyes:
 
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If DVD's were say... £5 and CD's say... £3... They would sell FAAAAR more. Price Elasticity at its best...
 

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christopherpostill said:
If DVD's were say... £5 and CD's say... £3... They would sell FAAAAR more. Price Elasticity at its best...

Do you study Economics at A-Level?!

I agree with most of the opinions here. I've never downloaded music, films, etc, because (for some bizar reason) I really like to own the 'real thing'. However, being a student, I never pay full price for anything! If there's a film or CD I want, I shop around for it to find the best bargain - Amazon usually have some great deals.

I think it's unfair to say that the manufacturer of software is at fault for other people misusing it, but I guess the aim here is to clamp down on misbehaviour. By making the manufacturer responsible I assume they are hoping for much tighter controls, which is understandable - I just don't think they are going about it the right way.
 

crazylegs

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Update on this case

I have been keeping my eye on this case

Just to let you all know that this case is ongoing and will be for sometime yet, not really much happening in the press reports but there have been people petitioning outside the Supreme Court for and on behalf of our rights.

I will post if anything substantial should emerge from the rulings...

Pics can be seen here

http://kevinhinkley1068.fotopic.net/c546202.html
 
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Better ban CD writers then, oh and photocopiers, oh yes and pens, and we can't have anyone talking anymore...
 
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There are plenty of subscribed legal services on the internet to get your songs from, like I-tunes

I have used file sharing in the past but anyone who has used know there at great risk to worms and viruses (I had some particularly nasty ones) so I stopped using it and realised something

People who download films, think about this - mmmm takes a few days to download a full film even on a 2mb connection (Lets say 4 days)

Internet connection = £20 per month (64p per day approx)
Electric bill = £20 per month (64p per day approx)

= 64 * 4 = £2.56 * 2 = £5.12

Its a fiver more to go buy the film

Its even cheaper to go watch it at the cinama!

I bet over the course of a while steeling large game and film files from the internet may end up costing some people more!

Just a thought :)
 
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Me__2001

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4 days on a 2mb connection ?!

say the movie is 5GB and download speed is 256KB/s thats 15MB a minute.

so thats 5120MB/15 =341.3 minutes

341.3/60 =5.7 hours this is assuming max download speed even at 128KB/s it will only take 12 hours
 

Me__2001

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crazylegs said:
Your talking about I-tunes and legal Download services on the internet, but if this case is won by hollywood and there moguls you will not have an Ipod to download your Legal I-tunes onto....

why do they want to get rid of ipods ? if you buy the music then you can put it on what you want to listen to it :mad:
 

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