Mail Receipts in Mozilla and T'bird

[Al Klein]

Good point, Al, but I nipped that one in the bud. I currently have my
Moz and T'bird to "Always send receipts" in the 3 choice boxes.

That works for mail you read, not mail you send. It's the recipient's
reader that has to be set to send receipts. For instance, if you send
me email you don't get receipts - my email client doesn't know about
them, so it doesn't send them. And my provider doesn't know whether
I'm going to read an email, delete it unread or ignore it, when it
goes from his POP3 server to mine, so he can't send a receipt.

If you're just testing mail you send to yourself, that's a different
story.

 

[Al Klein]

all acting less "professinal" not signing our postings? Should we all
sign our (important?) postings here demonstrating professionalism? AFAIK
*none* of all the postings I read in all the past years have been so
"heavy/deep" to be necessarely/worth being signed.

I was about to say that I always digitally sign all my important
usenet posts and that, although I've been posting to usenet since it
was part of ARPA, I've never digitally signed a post yet.

 

[Al Klein]

But, very disconcerting as well! I always thought that Netscape,
Mozilla, T'bird, and the likes, from that development group were
infinitely smarter than Outlook Express. But, those messages I sent
myself from OE did indeed generate receipts when I opened them, in
either OE or Moz/T'bird.

Proving your original thought - that OE is, at best, brain damaged. Or
do you verify all your actions to yourself?

 

[David]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



Why should other's ignorance keep me from verifying my identity? If
you can't figure out how, or don't care to, then ignore it. If you
can't ignore it and can't selectively quote, that's your problem.

RR

Put the .sig delimiter "-- " (two dashes and a space) on the line
before your "RR". The delimiter should be the only thing on the line.
That will allow good usenet and email clients to automatically delete
your PGP when replying. Thank you for your consideration.
--
David
Remove "farook" to reply
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
E-mail: justdas at iinet dot net dot au

 

[David]

I was about to say that I always digitally sign all my important
usenet posts and that, although I've been posting to usenet since it
was part of ARPA, I've never digitally signed a post yet.

LOL. How true. I must say I follow suit.
--
David
Remove "farook" to reply
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
E-mail: justdas at iinet dot net dot au

 

[Adam Piggott]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Put the .sig delimiter "-- " (two dashes and a space) on the line
before your "RR". The delimiter should be the only thing on the line.
That will allow good usenet and email clients to automatically delete
your PGP when replying. Thank you for your consideration.

Unfortunately using Thunderbird with it's OpenPGP extension Enigmail do not
correctly insert the signature delimiter, breaking it in the process, so
rather than insert a broken delimiter I've chosen not to use one at all
until it's been fixed.

Cheers,


Adam.
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[Peter Seiler]

David - 06.02.2006 12:41 :

Put the .sig delimiter "-- " (two dashes and a space) on the line
before your "RR". The delimiter should be the only thing on the line.
That will allow good usenet and email clients to automatically delete
your PGP when replying. Thank you for your consideration.

that's one idea, but on the other hand: textlines under the
signatur-delimiter should be max. 4 lines!

IMO, normally there is realy no need signing posts/reposts in NGs.
Therefore perhaps only 0.001 percent uses signing and perhaps 99.999
percent don't. There are no real reasons/arguments pro signing in NGs
where text often is not so "heavy" but more chat-like. So "ignorance"
(Rodney Reason) seems more aside of the 0.001 percent instead of the
mainstream.

Signed posts/reposts waist bandwidth and make reading threads
unnecessarely uncomfortable especially within long threads with much
post, repost and much quoting. And snipping quotings to shorten posts is
NOT a practized usenet behavior these day :-(

 

[me]

Put the .sig delimiter "-- " (two dashes and a space) on
the line before your "RR". The delimiter should be the only
thing on the line. That will allow good usenet and email
clients to automatically delete your PGP when replying.
Thank you for your consideration.

The _whole_ message is signed, delimiter becomes dash-space-
dash-dash-space. Example:
[ quot ]
- --
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32)
[ /quot ]

J

 

[David]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Unfortunately using Thunderbird with it's OpenPGP extension Enigmail do not
correctly insert the signature delimiter, breaking it in the process, so
rather than insert a broken delimiter I've chosen not to use one at all
until it's been fixed.

Cheers,


Adam.

You could always, of course, manually insert the .sig delimiter.
--
David
Remove "farook" to reply
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
E-mail: justdas at iinet dot net dot au

 

[David]

David - 06.02.2006 12:41 :


that's one idea, but on the other hand: textlines under the
signatur-delimiter should be max. 4 lines!

A recommendation not a requirement.

[...]

Signed posts/reposts waist bandwidth and make reading threads
unnecessarely uncomfortable especially within long threads with much
post, repost and much quoting. And snipping quotings to shorten posts is
NOT a practized usenet behavior these day :-(

It should be and it should be encouraged.
--
David
Remove "farook" to reply
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
E-mail: justdas at iinet dot net dot au

 

[David]

Put the .sig delimiter "-- " (two dashes and a space) on
the line before your "RR". The delimiter should be the only
thing on the line. That will allow good usenet and email
clients to automatically delete your PGP when replying.
Thank you for your consideration.

The _whole_ message is signed, delimiter becomes dash-space-
dash-dash-space. Example:
[ quot ]
- --
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32)
[ /quot ]

Which is not a legal .sig delimiter. The only one which works is as
described "-- " (two dashes and a space) on a line by themselves. Your
reader must be broken if it does that.
--
David
Remove "farook" to reply
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
E-mail: justdas at iinet dot net dot au

 

[Adam Piggott]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

You could always, of course, manually insert the .sig delimiter.

I could, but the bug would mangle it. The problem lies with whitespace
conversion at the end of lines. Enigmail converts the delimiter to a
dash-escaped line (preserving the trailing whitespace) which maintains it
as a valid delimiter. Thunderbird then mangles it because, assumedly, it
only allows "-- " through without stripping trailing whitespace.
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[Adam Piggott]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Put the .sig delimiter "-- " (two dashes and a space) on
the line before your "RR". The delimiter should be the only
thing on the line. That will allow good usenet and email
clients to automatically delete your PGP when replying.
Thank you for your consideration.

The _whole_ message is signed, delimiter becomes dash-space-
dash-dash-space. Example:
[ quot ]
- --
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32)
[ /quot ]

Which is not a legal .sig delimiter. <snip>

Yes it is. The OpenPGP RFC defines "- -- " as a valid delimiter. I would
find where but as I said many posts ago, I have discussed this at length
with other parties and get bored typing the same replies to the same
statements repeatedly
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[Rodney Reason]

The _whole_ message is signed, delimiter becomes dash-space-
dash-dash-space. Example:
[ quot ]
- --
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32)
[ /quot ]

Which is not a legal .sig delimiter. The only one which works is as
described "-- " (two dashes and a space) on a line by themselves. Your
reader must be broken if it does that.

The newsreader is not broken. That is intentional. The delimiter
is restored when the message is verified.

RR

 

[me]

Put the .sig delimiter "-- " (two dashes and a space) on
the line before your "RR". The delimiter should be the
only thing on the line. That will allow good usenet and
email clients to automatically delete your PGP when
replying. Thank you for your consideration.

The _whole_ message is signed, delimiter becomes
dash-space- dash-dash-space. Example:
[ quot ]
- --
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32)
[ /quot ]

Which is not a legal .sig delimiter. The only one which
works is as described "-- " (two dashes and a space) on a
line by themselves. Your reader must be broken if it does
that.

David,

The reader is not broken. The "- -- " is by design (cf: the
other replies).

J

 

[me]

Adam Piggott wrote:

Have you checked that you've got Thunderbird/Moz set to accept return
receipts? Have a look at what's set under Tools->Account Settings->Return
Receipts for each affected account. Send me a test by mail if you want -
I'm using Thunderbird.

HTH

Adam Piggott, Proprietor, Proactive Services (Computing).
http://www.proactiveservices.co.uk/

Please replace dot invalid with dot uk to email me.
Apply personally for PGP public key.
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G3TEk8PeCl3A8gklMOelunM=
=mHN9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Adam,

I got the receipt indicating that you had opened the message I sent you,
and your reply.

So, I think that David and Al (and you) have very possibly nailed it.
Point 1: the recipient of an E-mail which requests a receipt may block
that receipt from being sent. Could be the recipient in my case did
just that--frankly, he may have a very good reason for doing so. Point
2: an E-mail client might recognize that it had sent the mail message,
so would not return a receipt. That explains why a message sent from
Moz to myself, and read by me in Moz, would not spawn a receipt; but,
messages sent to myself from OE but read in Moz WOULD generate a receipt.

Methinks that the mystery is solved! Many thanks to ALL who contributed
to this discussion, and to you, Adam, for being a willing (?)
participant in my experiment.

Best regards to all,

Jim Lamb
(e-mail address removed)

 

[John Fitzsimons]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Why should other's ignorance keep me from verifying my identity?

< snip >

You can verify your identity all you like. I suggest you look in the
mirror and see if the image looks like a photo of you. If it does then
you can consider yourself "identified".

 

[Al Klein]

So, I think that David and Al (and you) have very possibly nailed it.
Point 1: the recipient of an E-mail which requests a receipt may block
that receipt from being sent.

Also likely - the email client being used just doesn't send receipts.
Most don't.