Maddening Screen Flicker--No Video involved

A

Adam W

Hi, I'm a very experienced power point user who is totally stumped. I'm
using powerpoint 2003 (11.6361.6408) SP1. I make some very image
intensive powerpoints, usually exported from Photoshop 7.0 (PNGs, JPGs,
TIFFs) or Illustrator CS (EMFs). I usually use a great deal of
animation effects as well. I sporadically am running into a problem
where the entire screen will flicker, or redraw at a rate of not much
faster than once per second for several seconds to minutes on end. I
can remedy the problem by clicking on the top bar of the powerpoint
window and dragging the window, or by minimzing the window, but it
sometimes returns as soon as I click on an object to work with it.
The flickering isn't confined to the powerpoint window, but encompasses
the entire screen. The problem varies in magnitude from file to file,
but some files are nearly uneditable without getting into this cyclical
redraw. I have been in contact with other users who have this problem,
but also many veteran users who have never seen it including a guy in my
office using the same exact hardware and software. I'm running win xp
sp2 on a Dell Latitude 800 and have seen it on two other generic desktop
PCs of different brands, a Toshiba Satellite, as well as on a brand new
IBM laptop.

My only theory is that it is related to using shadows with exported
images, as the files that behave the worst seem to involve heavy use of
shadows beneath images. It's been difficult to isolate the problem
because it seems to happen with large files containing a variety of
image types, usually files built from a lot of cutting and pasting of
multiple generations of presentations.

I was pretty sure that this was a hardware problem of some sort, perhaps
confined largely to Dell laptops, until I recently passed a file to
someone who had never had this problem and he reported to me that the
file I gave him (one that had been giving me trouble in this regard)
behaved in the same problematic fashion on his brand new IBM laptop.

I have searched newsgroups, Microsoft's website, and asked a number of
colleagues, no one seems to have ever seen this before, though I run
into fairly regularly. If anyone has any ideas or has at least seen
this phenomenon, please let me know.

Thank you very much.

--adam
 
T

TAJ Simmons

Adam,

Is the re-drawing confined to just the "slide" when you are editing the
slide in powerpoint?

If that's the case I *have* seen the effect. The fix that worked for me was
to update the "graphics card drivers"

Cheers
TAJ Simmons
microsoft powerpoint mvp

awesome - powerpoint backgrounds,
http://www.powerpointbackgrounds.com
free powerpoint templates, tutorials, hints and tips etc
 
A

Austin Myers

Adam,

I would put my money on an updatd video card driver and the latest version
of DirectX.

Austin Myers
MS PowerPoint MVP Team
 
A

Adam W

The effect is not confined by the slide, but rather the entire desktop
is affected until I click outside of powerpoint. When using two
monitors, I've had it spread to both. I'll try some driver updates and
see what I get.

Thanks

--adam
 
G

Guest

I have been struggling with this same problem. Not only did I update the
video driver but I went and bought a entire new video card (ATI Radeon x800).
Still have this issue. It does seem to be related to the usage of shadows as
Adam suggests. I have the issue on my home computer and on IBM Thinkpad. My
peers at work don't seem to have the issue... even though they have older
machines.

I'm stumped as well - I use Powerpoint alot this is an issue for me....
wondering about going back to the older version of powerpoint?
 
G

Glen Millar

Hi,

I suspect this redraw issue depends on image type, as well as image size. I
can reproduce it by having multiple images as the background to autoshapes,
stacked on top of each other. Each individual image redraws, and if I move
them, they do it all over again. It si like being on a merry-go-round.

Can you get an offending slide and convert the images to png. Even if you
cut them and paste special back as png. Does that help? Images like emf, wmf
and so forth are really vector type formats, even though they are images.
Images at the back of an autoshape are images stuck in a vector box. So, I'm
wondering if you convert them to a proper raster, and the native raster
format for PowerPoint is png, it may help.

Now, I have some graphic problems you wouldn't believe <g>. I have an ati
card, and I'm hoping to get some people to look at it in a few weeks time.
Then, if I can fix mine, I'll know more about yours.

--

Regards,

Glen Millar
Microsoft PPT MVP
www.powerpointworkbench.com
Australia

Please tell us your PowerPoint version,
whether you are using vba,
whether your dog has fleas, or
anything else relevant.
 
T

TAJ Simmons

The effect is not confined by the slide, but rather the entire desktop
OK, that's not what I've seen before.

Have you tried the usual "lowering the hardware acceleration" trick?

TAJ
 
A

Austin Myers

Brett,

Have you updated your version of DirectX?

Austin Myers
MS PowerPoint MVP Team
 
G

Guest

My observation is that the issue is more prevelant when there are a lot of
shadows and/or semi transparent shapes. Semi transparent shadows seem to be
one of the biggest potential causes in causing the flickering.

Lastly i can open the same powerpoint on the mac and not see any issue at
all. I know it's a completely different architecture... just a tidbit
observation.
 
G

Guest

I'm running DirectX 9 (I can't remember if it's b or c but it's definately 9)

On my home computer I noticed reducing the hardware acceleration to a little
less the halfway on the slider seems to have helped. It does seem like an odd
fix. But if you move the hardware acceleration up just one notch the issue
comes back.
 
A

Austin Myers

Moving the accelerator down has the result of moving some of the DirectX
functions (shadows for instance) from the video card back to the CPU for
processing. It is often the only real choice when you have a less capable
video card.

Austin Myers
MS PowerPoint MVP Team
 
S

Steve Rindsberg

On my home computer I noticed reducing the hardware acceleration to a little
less the halfway on the slider seems to have helped. It does seem like an odd
fix. But if you move the hardware acceleration up just one notch the issue
comes back.

"Hardware acceleration" is something of a misnomer, or at least a slightly
misleading label for what's really going on.

Video drivers and hardware either perform various classes of functions or not.

They're expected to report back to Windows which they can/can't handle.
Anything the video hardware can't handle, Windows takes over in software.

Video-related problems typically occur because the driver says "Yeah, my
hardware can do that" but the hardware or driver fumble the job.

Setting acceleration back tells Windows "Ignore that guy over there behind the
video driver. He lies. Do it yourself." Each notch to the left adds another
class of stuff to the list of functions Windows handles in software rather than
letting the hardware do it.

That filters back to the software that's doing its utmost to stresstest the
video system into submission. The ATI/whomever driver du jour may be a wild
west shootout from the POV of the software that has to rely on it, but the
Windows way of doing it in software is documented, tested and more important,
TESTABLE by the software developers. A known quantity.

More than anybody ever wanted to know, right? ;-)
 
S

Steve Rindsberg

Not at all! This beats having to climb the mountain to sit at your feet.

My feet? Ewww. Don't go there. You don't know where they've been. I do, and
I try to stay six feet away from them at all times.
 
A

Adam W

Thanks all who wrote in re: the flicker, especially Steve with the
explanation of Hardware acceleration. Hardware Acceleration reduction
seemed to solve the problem. But here's my question: at what cost?
Since I suffer this problem only in powerpoint, I'm curious if I leave
the setting at its reduced level what effects that will have on
Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, etc. Any ideas? I'm running a couple
month old Dell Latitude with a GB of Ram, 2nd or third notch processor,
and the best factory video card they had.
Thanks

--adam
 
S

Steve Rindsberg

Thanks all who wrote in re: the flicker, especially Steve with the
explanation of Hardware acceleration. Hardware Acceleration reduction
seemed to solve the problem. But here's my question: at what cost?
Since I suffer this problem only in powerpoint, I'm curious if I leave
the setting at its reduced level what effects that will have on
Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, etc. Any ideas? I'm running a couple
month old Dell Latitude with a GB of Ram, 2nd or third notch processor,
and the best factory video card they had.

If your Dell's a month old, then the drivers are almost surely out of date.
They seem to change monthly to begin with, the add a month or four for them to
get into Dell's standard production image ... etc, etc, etc.

Check for new ones at Dell's site or the manufacturer's. It may be that the
latest driver fixes the problem that you have to use hardware accel to fix now.

As to what other effects ... hard to say. You'd almost have to run each app
for a while with and w/o the reduced accel setting to see if it feels any
different.
 
G

Guest

First of all, I will add to the thread intended here. I have seen the same
problem many times. Restarting PowerPoint ALWAYS helps for some reason. The
problem always has to do with multiple objects with differing levels of
transparancy on top of each other. Not necissarily imported images (can be
PPT shapes) but more ofthen than not, it is imported images that cause the
problem. I never tried jacking down the acceleration... I will look into
that. I am jumping in here mainly because of Brett's mentioning that he has
an ATI x800.

I am seeing problems with hardware accelerated animation. I have tried 3
systems with PCI express cards (1 NVidia and 2 ATI's) and all have the same
problem. I was wondering if Brett (or anyone else with a PCI express card)
can see the same problem. It appears during slide show when moving something
slowly (usually horizontally). Every half-second (or so) the image will
appear to jitter. like there is something off in horizontal sync. This is
very difficult to explain, so let's do a 'see for yourselft test'..

Create a new presentation. Create a dark rectangle (blue in my case) on a
white background with no outling. Create an effect for the rectangle -- fly
in from right VERY SLOW.

Does it move smoothly? It should! I see this 'sync issue' on 3 machines
with pci express... I was wondering if everyone else can chime in, to nail
down what is causing this.
 

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