Low Maintenance Multifunction Printer


K

kenjisamurai

I am a college student and need a small, compact printer for my dorm
that can also scan, thus multifunction. I have looked at cheap
multifunction printers such as the canon mp130 / mp150 and hp officejet
4315 printers. As I am on a budget,a cheap printer with cheap ink is
preferable. My biggest gripe is that all the printers I've owned have
died a premature death in about a year or less. My old HP died after
transporting it lightly from one floor to another. My previous Canon
MultiPass died after I changed the ink cartridge and was also printing
funny, probably due to a bad printhead. My old Lexmark had a bad
printhead and I never knew about printheads in the past so its been
sitting somewhere collecting dust. My cheap Canon i250 has currently
developed a bad printhead. Its either I move it slightly and it dies on
me or the printhead dies out of nowhere. Printheads are VERY expensive
and they cost as much as a new printer so I might as well get one
instead. I know the printer companies are out to get me but it's not
like I have much of a choice.

I am looking for something that has low maintenance and is reliable. I
don't print very frequently but when I do, I want it to work and work
right, without taking 5 minutes to warm up and act posessed when I
decide to print something, die on me, or print light/dark crap from bad
printheads. I don't need too much ink as my old canon i250 used 9.5ml
black cartridges and I would probably go through two at the most in a
year. I am currently leaning towards HP even though people say they are
more expensive. I've read that their printheads are attached to their
cartridges so that I don't need to worry about screwed up printheads
anymore. My previous two printers were Canons and they both liked to
play games before printing and ruin their printheads in a nice fashion.


As I am not versed in printers, can someone recommend me som
inexpensive multifunction printers that will give me the least
problems? Canon will also work, but I will be a bit more wary about
them.
 
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Z

zakezuke

I am a college student and need a small, compact printer for my dorm
that can also scan, thus multifunction. I have looked at cheap
multifunction printers such as the canon mp130 / mp150 and hp officejet
4315 printers. As I am on a budget,a cheap printer with cheap ink is
preferable. My biggest gripe is that all the printers I've owned have
died a premature death in about a year or less. My old HP died after
transporting it lightly from one floor to another. My previous Canon
MultiPass died after I changed the ink cartridge and was also printing
funny, probably due to a bad printhead. My old Lexmark had a bad
printhead and I never knew about printheads in the past so its been
sitting somewhere collecting dust. My cheap Canon i250 has currently
developed a bad printhead. Its either I move it slightly and it dies on
me or the printhead dies out of nowhere. Printheads are VERY expensive
and they cost as much as a new printer so I might as well get one
instead. I know the printer companies are out to get me but it's not
like I have much of a choice.
I am looking for something that has low maintenance and is reliable. I
don't print very frequently but when I do, I want it to work and work
right, without taking 5 minutes to warm up and act posessed when I
decide to print something, die on me, or print light/dark crap from bad
printheads. I don't need too much ink as my old canon i250 used 9.5ml
black cartridges and I would probably go through two at the most in a
year. I am currently leaning towards HP even though people say they are
more expensive. I've read that their printheads are attached to their
cartridges so that I don't need to worry about screwed up printheads
anymore. My previous two printers were Canons and they both liked to
play games before printing and ruin their printheads in a nice fashion.


As I am not versed in printers, can someone recommend me som
inexpensive multifunction printers that will give me the least
problems? Canon will also work, but I will be a bit more wary about
them.

The thing you have to understand about the canon lineup is they come in
two basic classes... consumer and sub-budget.

The consumer line, the mp500, 800/800R/830, take the same cartridges as
the ip4200/ip5200. The mp900/950 doesn't have an equilivent outside of
japan but also takes the same cartridges as the ip4200/5200 plus extra
light cyan/magenta.

The canon mp130 / mp150 are the sub-buget models. the mp130 taking the
older thimble type cartridges, the mp150 and mp170 taking the newer
more costly head on the tank type cartridges. There are also the
mp170/mp450 in that same class.

Now given your low volume... 2 9.5ml tanks/year, you might be perfectly
happy with the mp150. They are small and don't take up much space.
The in price is under $100... about 1/2 of that is the ink it comes
with. Do keep in mind that there are likely limits as to which
cartridges which model takes, for example the mp450 and mp170 take
slightly larger cartridges than the mp150, also head on the cartridge
type.

The mp500 is where we enter the non-budget class, and this unit takes
the $18 25ml black, vs the less models which either take the pg50 22ml
black for $25, or the even smaller pg40 for $17. These are inktanks
with a seperate printhead, while while it's a good deal for people who
use their printer a good deal.. not so good a deal for those who let
their printer sit. Also this is the smallest of the consumer lineup,
the mp800/900 are huge beasts.

The HP line up i'd have to look into... but their lower priced models
tend to charge more for thimble sized ink, though there are options for
ones which do not. While they are experimenting with consumer models
with headless tanks, they still have many multi fuctionals with head on
the cartridges.
 
T

TJ

I am a college student and need a small, compact printer for my dorm
that can also scan, thus multifunction. I have looked at cheap
multifunction printers such as the canon mp130 / mp150 and hp officejet
4315 printers. As I am on a budget,a cheap printer with cheap ink is
preferable. My biggest gripe is that all the printers I've owned have
died a premature death in about a year or less. My old HP died after
transporting it lightly from one floor to another. My previous Canon
MultiPass died after I changed the ink cartridge and was also printing
funny, probably due to a bad printhead. My old Lexmark had a bad
printhead and I never knew about printheads in the past so its been
sitting somewhere collecting dust. My cheap Canon i250 has currently
developed a bad printhead. Its either I move it slightly and it dies on
me or the printhead dies out of nowhere. Printheads are VERY expensive
and they cost as much as a new printer so I might as well get one
instead. I know the printer companies are out to get me but it's not
like I have much of a choice.

I am looking for something that has low maintenance and is reliable. I
don't print very frequently but when I do, I want it to work and work
right, without taking 5 minutes to warm up and act posessed when I
decide to print something, die on me, or print light/dark crap from bad
printheads. I don't need too much ink as my old canon i250 used 9.5ml
black cartridges and I would probably go through two at the most in a
year. I am currently leaning towards HP even though people say they are
more expensive. I've read that their printheads are attached to their
cartridges so that I don't need to worry about screwed up printheads
anymore. My previous two printers were Canons and they both liked to
play games before printing and ruin their printheads in a nice fashion.


As I am not versed in printers, can someone recommend me som
inexpensive multifunction printers that will give me the least
problems? Canon will also work, but I will be a bit more wary about
them.

If you're considering an HP, and you don't need the fax function,
consider one of the PSC (printer scanner copier) models. However, I'd be
wary of the newer, low-end PSCs. There have been several posts on this
newsgroup from people that have had trouble with them. Instead, I'd look
into a refurbished higher-end model. I inherited my PSC 2110 from my
brother in January 2004, and he bought it from Office Max, refurbished,
for $70 a few months before that. It has given me very little trouble,
and most of that came when I let the ink cartridge empty before
refilling it. This printer uses the HP 56 and 57 cartridges, easily
refilled if that is your choice, but also easily found in both OEM and
commercially refilled versions. Considering your stated print volume,
however, you probably wouldn't need more than one set a year. The
cartridges have the printheads attached.

Our local troll will probably reply to this post and point out that most
of my problems came from refilling cartridges, and that you should use
only OEM carts if you don't want clogs. The fact is, I've refilled my
carts dozens of times without a problem, only twice with one.

I'm not recommending any particular printer; I'm only telling you of my
experience. I don't know much about printers other than my own. What I
AM saying is don't count out refurbished as a possible source for a good
value.

TJ
 
E

Edwin Pawlowski

My biggest gripe is that all the printers I've owned have
died a premature death in about a year or less. My old HP died after
transporting it lightly from one floor to another. My previous Canon
MultiPass died after I changed the ink cartridge and was also printing
funny, probably due to a bad printhead. My old Lexmark had a bad
printhead and I never knew about printheads in the past so its been
sitting somewhere collecting dust. My cheap Canon i250 has currently
developed a bad printhead. Its either I move it slightly and it dies on
me or the printhead dies out of nowhere.



Before buying anything, review your handling of them. Every printer I've
had, both home and office, lasted a minimum of 4 years with "medium" use .
The two I have at home right now are six years of trouble free printing.
Anyone can get a lemon, but when you have four in a row, I'd look at the
operator first.
 
K

kenjisamurai

Edwin said:
Before buying anything, review your handling of them. Every printer I've
had, both home and office, lasted a minimum of 4 years with "medium" use .
The two I have at home right now are six years of trouble free printing.
Anyone can get a lemon, but when you have four in a row, I'd look at the
operator first.

I understand what you are saying. I am very gentle with my hardware so
that isn't the issue. I rarely even use them so that also is a point.
My Multipass, for example, you need to physically pull the entire
scanner unit and controls up in order to insert the ink. You can't do
this "gently" or it won't even open. Then you have to push it back down
and the whole scanner and control unit will go "bonk" onto the bottom
part no matter how slow and meticulous you are. It won't even close
without enough pressure. Ignoring any handling issues, I don't mess
with my printer and turn it off when I am not using it. The bad
printheads is pretty much my fault as I never clean them but I
shouldn't have to pay the same amount as the printer itself to replace
them nor should the printhead die so early in its lifespan. All my
printers have been the sub-budget type, so that could be a factor.
 
B

Burt

I understand what you are saying. I am very gentle with my hardware so
that isn't the issue. I rarely even use them so that also is a point.
My Multipass, for example, you need to physically pull the entire
scanner unit and controls up in order to insert the ink. You can't do
this "gently" or it won't even open. Then you have to push it back down
and the whole scanner and control unit will go "bonk" onto the bottom
part no matter how slow and meticulous you are. It won't even close
without enough pressure. Ignoring any handling issues, I don't mess
with my printer and turn it off when I am not using it. The bad
printheads is pretty much my fault as I never clean them but I
shouldn't have to pay the same amount as the printer itself to replace
them nor should the printhead die so early in its lifespan. All my
printers have been the sub-budget type, so that could be a factor.
Kenji - "barely using" an inkjet printer is a very common cause of clogging.
 
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K

kenjisamurai

zakezuke said:
The thing you have to understand about the canon lineup is they come in
two basic classes... consumer and sub-budget.

The consumer line, the mp500, 800/800R/830, take the same cartridges as
the ip4200/ip5200. The mp900/950 doesn't have an equilivent outside of
japan but also takes the same cartridges as the ip4200/5200 plus extra
light cyan/magenta.

The canon mp130 / mp150 are the sub-buget models. the mp130 taking the
older thimble type cartridges, the mp150 and mp170 taking the newer
more costly head on the tank type cartridges. There are also the
mp170/mp450 in that same class.

Now given your low volume... 2 9.5ml tanks/year, you might be perfectly
happy with the mp150. They are small and don't take up much space.
The in price is under $100... about 1/2 of that is the ink it comes
with. Do keep in mind that there are likely limits as to which
cartridges which model takes, for example the mp450 and mp170 take
slightly larger cartridges than the mp150, also head on the cartridge
type.

The mp500 is where we enter the non-budget class, and this unit takes
the $18 25ml black, vs the less models which either take the pg50 22ml
black for $25, or the even smaller pg40 for $17. These are inktanks
with a seperate printhead, while while it's a good deal for people who
use their printer a good deal.. not so good a deal for those who let
their printer sit. Also this is the smallest of the consumer lineup,
the mp800/900 are huge beasts.

The HP line up i'd have to look into... but their lower priced models
tend to charge more for thimble sized ink, though there are options for
ones which do not. While they are experimenting with consumer models
with headless tanks, they still have many multi fuctionals with head on
the cartridges.

Thanks for your reply. I don't see and edit button anywhere so I am
double posting for now. Here is a bit more information I need
clarification on.

1. Can you clarify as to whether I should get a printer with the
printhead attached to the cartridge or with it not attached? As I've
said before, I've had nothing but bad luck with the separate ones that
need replacing on their own.

2. Also, can you tell me which of the following inks have printheads
attached to them again? I know you explained it but it sounds a little
confusing to me. Here are the inks for the printers I'm looking at
right now:

Lower Models
PG-40 12ml
PG-41 22ml
CL-41 9ml
CL-51 err something

A lil' higher up
PGI-5 Black Pigment 26ml
CLI-8 Black, Magenta, Cyan, Yellow

3. Is the PGI-5 black pigment for text only and the CLI-8Bk for photos?

4. Economically, since I can get a mp150 shipped and if I need a bigger
cartridge, I can get the high capacity PG-50, is there any reason I
should not get that as opposed to the more expensive mp500? It's the
three separate color deal that makes the mp500 so special right?
 
Z

zakezuke

Thanks for your reply. I don't see and edit button anywhere so I am
double posting for now. Here is a bit more information I need
clarification on.

1. Can you clarify as to whether I should get a printer with the
printhead attached to the cartridge or with it not attached? As I've
said before, I've had nothing but bad luck with the separate ones that
need replacing on their own.

That's up to you. I lack actual experence printing little except with
the HP psc 950, a circa 2001 model IIRC.

If you are printing at least once a month, and actually using color,
then there is no disadvantage to the printer with the head onboard.
And these canon printheads are under a year warranty, so if it clogs
they will replace it for free and send out one via next day air.

But if you neglect a head on the cartridge type, you are only out the
cost of the cartridge. So if you are trully a light user, this might
be your best bet.

2. Also, can you tell me which of the following inks have printheads
attached to them again? I know you explained it but it sounds a little
confusing to me. Here are the inks for the printers I'm looking at
right now:
Lower Models
These are cartridges with the head onboard
PG-40 12ml < PG-40 195p> <9.4c/page or so>
PG-41 22ml <pg-50 300pages> <9.3c/page or so>
CL-41 9ml <3ml or so per color>
CL-51 err something <7ml or so per color>

These are inktanks, denoted with the extra I.
PG stands for pigment
CL stands for... well, i'm not sure. It's dye, my guess would be
ChromaLife (dye ink)
A lil' higher up
PGI-5 Black Pigment 26ml <500p or about 3.2c/page>
CLI-8 Black, Magenta, Cyan, Yellow <14ml or so IIRC>
3. Is the PGI-5 black pigment for text only and the CLI-8Bk for photos?

Pigment black (pgi-5, pg-40 41) is only used when plain paper is
selected. Small black is used when basicly anything else is selected.
It's not auto detecting.

4. Economically, since I can get a mp150 shipped and if I need a bigger
cartridge, I can get the high capacity PG-50, is there any reason I
should not get that as opposed to the more expensive mp500? It's the
three separate color deal that makes the mp500 so special right?

I don't know about the mp150... your guess is as good as mine. I know
with the higher end line you can get bigger tanks, whether they will
accept the smaller tanks is something you'll have to ask someone wiser
than my self. All the data I've seen sugests that the mp170 and the
mp450 will accept low or high capasity tanks. I've seen no data to
sugest that anything less will take the high capasity tanks, only the
low capasity.

You should note for the cost of a black for the mp170/mp450 ($28.00)
you could get a twinpack for the officejet you spoke of earlier with
the same yield, or for the Photosmart 2575 $29.99 will get you a hp 96
cartridge with a yield o 800 pages. At least with the HPs that Bob
spoke about, you can let the color go dry without problems and buy one
if you need color. Granted this is more of a $180 printer, rather than
a $100 printer, but with your $100 you "know" you will shell out at
least $60 for black cartridges over a period of a year, about DOUBLE of
your old i250. With the $180 printer, it comes with enough ink equal
to about 2.5 to 3 thimble sized cartridges. Whether this is a good
deal or not, look at your canon experence and establish how long before
a major clog, if it's about a year it would make sense to go with the
more spendy printer with the least costly ink.

The mp500 is a $160 printer with inktanks, 3.2c/page or so, but may not
be a good deal for you if you don't use the color. You can't run it
without color.

And there are other HPs which are older models which take spiffy
cartridges with high volume low cost. But there are not really low
volume low cost cartridges, and there is usually an option for smaller
capacity. I will say my HP psc 960 experence with light use was kinda
good. Months of inactivity did sometimes require a nozzle cleaning,
but not often. Your enviroment might affect this.
 
K

kenjisamurai

zakezuke said:
That's up to you. I lack actual experence printing little except with
the HP psc 950, a circa 2001 model IIRC.

If you are printing at least once a month, and actually using color,
then there is no disadvantage to the printer with the head onboard.
And these canon printheads are under a year warranty, so if it clogs
they will replace it for free and send out one via next day air.

But if you neglect a head on the cartridge type, you are only out the
cost of the cartridge. So if you are trully a light user, this might
be your best bet.



These are cartridges with the head onboard

These are inktanks, denoted with the extra I.
PG stands for pigment
CL stands for... well, i'm not sure. It's dye, my guess would be
ChromaLife (dye ink)



Pigment black (pgi-5, pg-40 41) is only used when plain paper is
selected. Small black is used when basicly anything else is selected.
It's not auto detecting.



I don't know about the mp150... your guess is as good as mine. I know
with the higher end line you can get bigger tanks, whether they will
accept the smaller tanks is something you'll have to ask someone wiser
than my self. All the data I've seen sugests that the mp170 and the
mp450 will accept low or high capasity tanks. I've seen no data to
sugest that anything less will take the high capasity tanks, only the
low capasity.

You should note for the cost of a black for the mp170/mp450 ($28.00)
you could get a twinpack for the officejet you spoke of earlier with
the same yield, or for the Photosmart 2575 $29.99 will get you a hp 96
cartridge with a yield o 800 pages. At least with the HPs that Bob
spoke about, you can let the color go dry without problems and buy one
if you need color. Granted this is more of a $180 printer, rather than
a $100 printer, but with your $100 you "know" you will shell out at
least $60 for black cartridges over a period of a year, about DOUBLE of
your old i250. With the $180 printer, it comes with enough ink equal
to about 2.5 to 3 thimble sized cartridges. Whether this is a good
deal or not, look at your canon experence and establish how long before
a major clog, if it's about a year it would make sense to go with the
more spendy printer with the least costly ink.

The mp500 is a $160 printer with inktanks, 3.2c/page or so, but may not
be a good deal for you if you don't use the color. You can't run it
without color.

And there are other HPs which are older models which take spiffy
cartridges with high volume low cost. But there are not really low
volume low cost cartridges, and there is usually an option for smaller
capacity. I will say my HP psc 960 experence with light use was kinda
good. Months of inactivity did sometimes require a nozzle cleaning,
but not often. Your enviroment might affect this.

Thanks for the detailed reply. Sadly I am still undecided about all of
this and you pointing out that the lower model canons will eat up
9.3ish cents per page really irks me as I can probably just print from
the resident laser printer at the dorm for 8 cents or so. Right now I
shoved some windex into the printer head for my i250. Hopefully it
starts printing correctly again after a night's soak.

If you don't mind me asking another or a few more questions, would it
be economical to get refillable ink in my case and how easy would it be
for the lower canon models? I've heard something about having to reset
chips and this or that but I didn't really go into it.
 
Z

zakezuke

Thanks for the detailed reply. Sadly I am still undecided about all of
this and you pointing out that the lower model canons will eat up
9.3ish cents per page really irks me as I can probably just print from
the resident laser printer at the dorm for 8 cents or so. Right now I
shoved some windex into the printer head for my i250. Hopefully it
starts printing correctly again after a night's soak.

Yes, the dorm laser would be cheaper than the low end all in ones
offered by canon and hp.

If you don't mind me asking another or a few more questions, would it
be economical to get refillable ink in my case and how easy would it be
for the lower canon models? I've heard something about having to reset
chips and this or that but I didn't really go into it.

Heres where my data is limited. I use aftermarket ink, I use alot of
it. You can get a basic kit from hobbicolors with 2oz of each color,
and 4oz of pigmented black for $20 ish plus shipping. The newer
canons, mp500 and above, or ip4200 and above, are not ideal to refill
because of the chips. You can use aftermarket ink so long as you give
up metering. I'm not positive i'm 100% pleased with the pgimented
black from hobbicolors, I have more testing to do. I am 100% pleased
with the pigmented black from www.mis.com. The price is higher for a
set, closer to $40 for an equal amount of ink.

Ecconomicly refilling makes perfect sense as if talking like an ip4200
if you refill it twice you saved so much money that if your printer
explodes and you have to buy another, it's cheaper than buying OEM ink.
The mp500 is similar, after 2.5 refills buying another mp500 is
cheaper than buying OEM ink.

I don't know how easy it is to refill the more budget models, but you
would certainly have an easier time with the i250. You may wish to
pickup another head for that printer. You know the thimble cartridges
are cheaper than the dorm printer and current budget models.

I can speak from experence about using about 6oz of aftermarket ink
from MIS before I noticed slight banding with the black, this is about
12 cartridge changes. I think it was the fact that I ignored my
printer for weeks that caused the clog, and it was a minor one, same
with the mp760 I own with OEM ink. Canon replaced the head for free on
both. But I used so much ink on my old ip3000 that if I was using OEM
ink I would have shelled out hundrads.

If I was refilling, i'd go for the ip4200, ip5200, perhaps the mp500.
If you are lucky you can find the ip3000/ip4000/ip5000 which will
refill as easily and there is a basic meter, well, empty warning. And
with these models you can shell out $20 or so for a hobbicolors kit
with refillable cartridges, a price so cheap you might as well buy it
even if you don't like the ink. But this should drop 3.2c/page on the
mp500/ip4200 to slightly under a penny a page. Color price savings is
more stellar.
 
A

Arthur Entlich

I would tend to agree that for your needs an HP Inkjet might be the best
printer. As Bob Headrick mentioned, some allow you to print with the
black cartridge only, meaning you do not need to install the color
cartridge useless or until your require it. Cost of OEM cartridges is
similar.

Art
 
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Z

zakezuke

zakezuke said:
If I was refilling, i'd go for the ip4200, ip5200, perhaps the mp500.
If you are lucky you can find the ip3000/ip4000/ip5000 which will
refill as easily and there is a basic meter, well, empty warning. And
with these models you can shell out $20 or so for a hobbicolors kit
with refillable cartridges, a price so cheap you might as well buy it
even if you don't like the ink. But this should drop 3.2c/page on the
mp500/ip4200 to slightly under a penny a page. Color price savings is
more stellar.

I should also add that even though bulk ink can keep your costs down,
there are still costs, where with HP it's within the realms of
possiblity to print without a color cartridge... and in doing so you
will only be using black. Assuming you can print without a color
cartridge at all, you can put that color cartridge into long term
storage, which I "imagine" would require the tape that came with the
cartridge to cover up the nozzles, a ziplock bag, perhaps a moist paper
towel to prevent drying, and perhaps even in the refrigerator.

An HP which takes the #96 cartridge (800p) will cost you about
3.75c/page. Not "as" low as canon but prettty dang low. You also have
the choice for the low capasity #94 (450p) at $20... while higher...
4.4c/page, this is better than the bci-24 cartridges the i250 takes
which are close to $8/150p or about 5.2c/page.

So while I advocate the use of bulk ink..... at your volume levels and
being mostly black user we are talking the difference of tens of
dollars/year. Nothing wrong with wanting to save tens of dollars a
year, however untill I was printing in color alot I was too lazy to
look into it.
 
K

kenjisamurai

Thanks everyone for all the great info. My i250 was the best money-wise
as I could buy a box of 10 cartridgs for $2 a pop and print maybe 100
or more pages, which makes it less than 2 cents per page. Too bad the
head died. The printer head for it is too expensive and I would also
really like a scanner so a new multifunction printer would be the best
choice I guess. They don't sell those mp360/370/390 printers that take
BCI-24 ink anymore so now my decision boils down to this one factor as
the other factors seem to be nil:

My last two Canon printers, the i250 and mp360, would always act
possessed when starting up or printing. It takes five minutes for them
to start up and make wierd clanking noises. When I finally print
something, it makes the same noises for several minutes before it
starts printing. This annoys me greatly. My really old canon bubblejet,
compaq ij200, lexmark z43, HP something or other, and now currently my
family's lexmark p4350 don't suffer from these issues. You just turn it
on, it takes maybe 30 seconds to warm up, and then it prints when you
ask it to. Are these slow startups and printings part of Canon or will
printers from other companies nowadays also do this? I've read several
posts about slow startups and slow print responses from other Canon
users but can't find a general consensus. If Canon does indeed have
this problem, I will go pick a HP, maybe even a lexmark as I like the
name :blush:)
 
Z

zakezuke

Thanks everyone for all the great info. My i250 was the best money-wise
as I could buy a box of 10 cartridgs for $2 a pop and print maybe 100
or more pages, which makes it less than 2 cents per page. Too bad the
head died. The printer head for it is too expensive and I would also
really like a scanner so a new multifunction printer would be the best
choice I guess. They don't sell those mp360/370/390 printers that take
BCI-24 ink anymore so now my decision boils down to this one factor as
the other factors seem to be nil:

Ah, this probally wasn't "canon" oem ink then. But yes a head is like
a $60 to $80 investment in an older printer. It's not "too" expensive
when you take into account the lowish cost of ink, though at this point
one can visit goodwill and pickup a i550 for cheap, a i560 or above if
you are lucky. Odds are it too will need a new head but availablity of
aftermarket ink is high.

My last two Canon printers, the i250 and mp360, would always act
possessed when starting up or printing. It takes five minutes for them
to start up and make wierd clanking noises. When I finally print
something, it makes the same noises for several minutes before it
starts printing. This annoys me greatly. My really old canon bubblejet,
compaq ij200, lexmark z43, HP something or other, and now currently my
family's lexmark p4350 don't suffer from these issues. You just turn it
on, it takes maybe 30 seconds to warm up, and then it prints when you
ask it to. Are these slow startups and printings part of Canon or will
printers from other companies nowadays also do this? I've read several
posts about slow startups and slow print responses from other Canon
users but can't find a general consensus. If Canon does indeed have
this problem, I will go pick a HP, maybe even a lexmark as I like the
name :blush:)

My ip5200 does also make the clanking noises. These are cleaning
cycles, which the level and time of these cycles depends on how long
it's been since you used your printer
It should not be five minutes. 90 seconds above and beyond normal is
the max at least on the ip5200. 65 seconds above and beyond normal on
the ip4000, and this is if you didn't use your printer for 6 months.
If you don't print for 24hours, tack on another 30 to 35 seconds
depending on model. Two weeks is like 60 to 80seconds depending on the
model.

But canons to take a little bit to start, this is fair comment. HP
head on the cartridge style is probally better in ths regard, less ink
is used for cleaning. Five minutes sounds excessive.

Lexmark is usually a good brand to avoid due to stellar inkcosts. For
low end we are talking 1/3 the price of gold per weight for the black
ink, and nothing special about it to justify the cost. X3470 takes
the #1 cartridge, which i'm having a hard time finding accurate data on
it, but assuming 475p @ $20 it's like 4.2c/page for black, which to be
honest I don't believe. Something like the Lexmark X4270 which I know
takes the #70 has an yield of 600p @ $30 per or 5c/page. The P6250
taking the 18C0034 #34 is $20ish for 475pages or 4.2c/page. The
Lexmark Office X8350 takes the same cartridge I believe. I.e. the $100
printer and the $200 printer take the same ink

I'm not seeing the usual run of printers by lexmark which ran at above
and beyond 7c/page, so I can't justify my prejustice 100%. I can
justify the fact that in HP or Canon spending more than $150 can get
you an all in one printer and lower your cost per page. With lexmark,
at the models i'm looking at, you don't save money by spending more on
the printer.

Ah, here we are the Lexmark X1270, very similar to the dell free
pritner. #16black, 410p yield, $30.00. 7.3c/page. Over double the
price of canon for less yield for their non budget models. About 1/2
the yield of HP at about the same cost for their non-buget models. I'm
not sure if it comes with starter cartridges or not, odds are it comes
with standard yield not high yield. But buying replacement x1270s
might be cheaper.
 
K

kenjisamurai

zakezuke said:
Ah, this probally wasn't "canon" oem ink then. But yes a head is like
a $60 to $80 investment in an older printer. It's not "too" expensive
when you take into account the lowish cost of ink, though at this point
one can visit goodwill and pickup a i550 for cheap, a i560 or above if
you are lucky. Odds are it too will need a new head but availablity of
aftermarket ink is high.



My ip5200 does also make the clanking noises. These are cleaning
cycles, which the level and time of these cycles depends on how long
it's been since you used your printer
It should not be five minutes. 90 seconds above and beyond normal is
the max at least on the ip5200. 65 seconds above and beyond normal on
the ip4000, and this is if you didn't use your printer for 6 months.
If you don't print for 24hours, tack on another 30 to 35 seconds
depending on model. Two weeks is like 60 to 80seconds depending on the
model.

But canons to take a little bit to start, this is fair comment. HP
head on the cartridge style is probally better in ths regard, less ink
is used for cleaning. Five minutes sounds excessive.

Lexmark is usually a good brand to avoid due to stellar inkcosts. For
low end we are talking 1/3 the price of gold per weight for the black
ink, and nothing special about it to justify the cost. X3470 takes
the #1 cartridge, which i'm having a hard time finding accurate data on
it, but assuming 475p @ $20 it's like 4.2c/page for black, which to be
honest I don't believe. Something like the Lexmark X4270 which I know
takes the #70 has an yield of 600p @ $30 per or 5c/page. The P6250
taking the 18C0034 #34 is $20ish for 475pages or 4.2c/page. The
Lexmark Office X8350 takes the same cartridge I believe. I.e. the $100
printer and the $200 printer take the same ink

I'm not seeing the usual run of printers by lexmark which ran at above
and beyond 7c/page, so I can't justify my prejustice 100%. I can
justify the fact that in HP or Canon spending more than $150 can get
you an all in one printer and lower your cost per page. With lexmark,
at the models i'm looking at, you don't save money by spending more on
the printer.

Ah, here we are the Lexmark X1270, very similar to the dell free
pritner. #16black, 410p yield, $30.00. 7.3c/page. Over double the
price of canon for less yield for their non budget models. About 1/2
the yield of HP at about the same cost for their non-buget models. I'm
not sure if it comes with starter cartridges or not, odds are it comes
with standard yield not high yield. But buying replacement x1270s
might be cheaper.

Thanks for the reply. My canon i250 is to the point where it can print
alright but maybe one out of 7 or 8 lines of text there will be a small
streak where there's a line in the areas where white is and the text on
that line has a white line in the letters like the lines was displaced.
It is fine enough for general crap printing I guess.

Haha, if you have the time or the patience, can I say one more
question? :blush:P Okay, just a simple one, hopefully. How long are printer
heads designed to last? The lifespan of the printer before it breaks
down? Is it like a notebook battery where every two years you need one
because the capacity declines considerably due to age? Not that printer
heads have capacities, but is it made to be replaced or can it last the
entirety of a printers life, say, 5 years or more?
 
Z

zakezuke

Thanks for the reply. My canon i250 is to the point where it can print
alright but maybe one out of 7 or 8 lines of text there will be a small
streak where there's a line in the areas where white is and the text on
that line has a white line in the letters like the lines was displaced.
It is fine enough for general crap printing I guess.

Haha, if you have the time or the patience, can I say one more
question? :blush:P Okay, just a simple one, hopefully. How long are printer
heads designed to last? The lifespan of the printer before it breaks
down? Is it like a notebook battery where every two years you need one
because the capacity declines considerably due to age? Not that printer
heads have capacities, but is it made to be replaced or can it last the
entirety of a printers life, say, 5 years or more?

They are like lightbulbs. On the non-budget models we are talking in
the neighborhood of the 10th cartridge change based on my estiamtes of
canon's numbers, which will be listed below this reply. Reality can be
double this, but if you make it past ten you're golden, anything extra
you get is a bonus. But each time you replace a cartridge on the
non-budget models, think in your head it's an extra $1.50 above and
beyond the cost of the cartridge. By the 10th and you are still
printing, great, keep printing.

Factors which can affect this are extensive use, or lack of use, where
lack of use can result in a clog. regular printing is the only real
preventive measure the end user can do, not anything trully major, but
at least something once every couple of weeks or so.

I have no clue on the QY6-044-000 used in the i250. It has 320 black
nozzles, same as the ip4000, so on theory it should use the same number
of stroke per page.

Now in theory the printhead life is listed as being equal to the
printer. But their duty lists such odd ball specifications that i'd
guess that one could replace the printhead in their machine once
without worry of it being a total loss. Twice you at the very least
start running into issues of a full diaper, which that you can often
reset once without problems, but twice, better replace the pads or the
printer. Three times, three times well only if there is something
special about your printer like low cost ink.

I have no idea about the i250, they are so cheap I never considered
servising one above and beyond windex.

Do keep in mind the cost of printers is somewhat deceptive. One can
not assume a printer is worth less than $80 because a new model is $80.
These things are basicly sold at a loss to get you to buy ink, and ink
for the newer models may cost you more. You might get more for that
price, you might not. For basic text printing canon has not made much
in the way of improvements over the past 5 years. Photo printing is
another story, but plain paper color is pretty much the same.

-----------------------------------------
Here are the offical ip4000 numbers
Lifetime total 18,000 pages
Black 1,500 character pattern 7,200 pages
Color A4, 7.5% duty per color pattern 5,400 pages
A4, photo, borderless printing 300 pages
4 x 6, photo, borderless printing 3,600 pages
Postcard, photo, borderless printing 1,500 pages

PIXMA iP4000:
BCI-3eBK: 740 pages (1,500 character pattern, plain paper / standard
mode)
1,500 pages (ISO JIS-SCID No. 5 / plain paper / standard mode)
BCI-6C: 550 pages (ISO JIS-SCID No. 5 / plain paper / standard mode)
BCI-6M: 430 pages (ISO JIS-SCID No. 5 / plain paper / standard mode)
BCI-6Y: 360 pages (ISO JIS-SCID No. 5 / plain paper / standard mode)
BCI-6BK: 2,000 pages (ISO JIS-SCID No. 5 / plain paper / standard mode)
 
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M

measekite

I am a college student and need a small, compact printer for my dorm
that can also scan, thus multifunction. I have looked at cheap
multifunction printers such as the canon mp130 / mp150 and hp officejet
4315 printers. As I am on a budget,a cheap printer with cheap ink is
preferable. My biggest gripe is that all the printers I've owned have
died a premature death in about a year or less.

Beware of the fact that CHEAP is sometimes EXPENSIVE. Take a look at
the Canon MP500. Also look at some HP. You can get something
reasonable on sale for less than $150.00.
My old HP died after
transporting it lightly from one floor to another. My previous Canon
MultiPass died after I changed the ink cartridge and was also printing
funny, probably due to a bad printhead. My old Lexmark had a bad
printhead and I never knew about printheads in the past so its been
sitting somewhere collecting dust. My cheap Canon i250 has currently
developed a bad printhead. Its either I move it slightly and it dies on
me or the printhead dies out of nowhere. Printheads are VERY expensive
and they cost as much as a new printer so I might as well get one
instead. I know the printer companies are out to get me but it's not
like I have much of a choice.

I am looking for something that has low maintenance and is reliable. I
don't print very frequently

Than an HP with an integrated printhead might be a wise choice. And be
aure to use only factory ink. You will not gain much by using generic
ink in a low volume environment.
 
L

lemai_hoangkim

Hello, I'm also looking for an AIO printer. I'm considering Canon MP150
so does anyone know what is the ink yield for the print and photos
task. I had searched and only find out the yield for printing
(PG40-490p) & (PG50-750). Is the photo task yield the same ?

Oh and can anyone inform me about AIO model (Canon or HP or etc...)
that use separated printhead (i.e the printhead comes along with ink
cartridge, right???) Because I need to print and copy very much...so
what is the reasonable choice?

I'm living in Singapore, and may the maximum price below 400SGD (i
think now 1UGD approx 1.5SGD)

Thanks you very much
 
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G

Gary Tait

(e-mail address removed) wrote in @m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
Hello, I'm also looking for an AIO printer. I'm considering Canon MP150
so does anyone know what is the ink yield for the print and photos
task. I had searched and only find out the yield for printing
(PG40-490p) & (PG50-750). Is the photo task yield the same ?

Oh and can anyone inform me about AIO model (Canon or HP or etc...)
that use separated printhead (i.e the printhead comes along with ink
cartridge, right???) Because I need to print and copy very much...so
what is the reasonable choice?

I'm living in Singapore, and may the maximum price below 400SGD (i
think now 1UGD approx 1.5SGD)

Thanks you very much

If you mean you want to but inktanks only, rather than an inktank/head
cartridge, look up in the Canon line for ones that use either BCI3/6 or
CLI8/PGI5 carts.
 

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