Limit to number of IDE devices on XP?

[JK]

For some time I've had the same setup: four hard disks on the two IDE
controllers on the motherboard, and two DVD drives attached to a PCI IDE
controller card, one drive on each controller on the card.

Any time I tried to attach another device to the PCI card, my system would
not boot. I put this down to an arbitrary glitch - it was an old IDE card
(Siig ATA 66) with a driver that hadn't had an update for years.

So I've just installed a new Silicon Image PCI IDE controller card
(SIL0680) with the latest drivers - and I have exactly the same problem. I
can install a single DVD drive on each controller, and it works fine. But
if I install a third drive, the system won't boot.

I've never read anything about a limit to the number of IDE devices under
Windows XP, but I thought I should ask the question - is there any limit on
the number of IDE devices, or is there another possible explanation?

System: Windows XP SP2, ECS L7VTA Socket A motherboard


JohnK

 

[Rod Speed]

For some time I've had the same setup: four hard disks on the two IDE
controllers on the motherboard, and two DVD drives attached to a PCI
IDE controller card, one drive on each controller on the card.

Any time I tried to attach another device to the PCI card, my system
would not boot. I put this down to an arbitrary glitch - it was an old IDE
card (Siig ATA 66) with a driver that hadn't had an update for years.

So I've just installed a new Silicon Image PCI IDE controller card
(SIL0680) with the latest drivers - and I have exactly the same
problem. I can install a single DVD drive on each controller, and
it works fine. But if I install a third drive, the system won't boot.

What exactly happens when 'it wont boot' ?

I've never read anything about a limit to the number of IDE
devices under Windows XP, but I thought I should ask the
question - is there any limit on the number of IDE devices,

Nope, plenty run more than 4.

 

[JK]

What exactly happens when 'it wont boot' ?

Thanks for the quick response. Yes, sorry, I wasn't very clear. It boots
through the initial bios screens - the fours hard disks attached to the
motherboard are discovered ok.

The system freezes when it gets to what I can only describe as the screen
with the progess bar with the green blobs (I hope that makes sense). The
green bar just goes into perpetual motion, and there is no hard disk
activity. At that stage I have to disconnect the third DVD drive and reboot
in order to get into Windows - so to boot successfully I can only ever have
six IDE devices attached.

JohnK

 

[Rod Speed]

Thanks for the quick response. Yes, sorry, I wasn't very clear. It boots
through the initial bios screens - the fours hard disks attached to the
motherboard are discovered ok.

The system freezes when it gets to what I can only describe as the screen
with the progess bar with the green blobs (I hope that makes sense). The
green bar just goes into perpetual motion, and there is no hard disk
activity. At that stage I have to disconnect the third DVD drive and reboot
in order to get into Windows - so to boot successfully I can only ever have
six IDE devices attached.

Some of those cards dont handle optical drives that well. Likely its a side
effect of that.

 

[Arie Bant]

For some time I've had the same setup: four hard disks on the two IDE
controllers on the motherboard, and two DVD drives attached to a PCI IDE
controller card, one drive on each controller on the card.

Any time I tried to attach another device to the PCI card, my system would
not boot. I put this down to an arbitrary glitch - it was an old IDE card
(Siig ATA 66) with a driver that hadn't had an update for years.

So I've just installed a new Silicon Image PCI IDE controller card
(SIL0680) with the latest drivers - and I have exactly the same problem. I
can install a single DVD drive on each controller, and it works fine. But
if I install a third drive, the system won't boot.

I've never read anything about a limit to the number of IDE devices under
Windows XP, but I thought I should ask the question - is there any limit on
the number of IDE devices, or is there another possible explanation?

System: Windows XP SP2, ECS L7VTA Socket A motherboard


JohnK

Am I right in assuming that you have set the master/slave junpers on the
ATA drives correctly?

 

[JK]

Some of those cards dont handle optical drives that well. Likely its a
side effect of that.

Had no idea about that. Many thanks.

JohnK

 

[Ron Reaugh]

For some time I've had the same setup: four hard disks on the two IDE
controllers on the motherboard, and two DVD drives attached to a PCI IDE
controller card, one drive on each controller on the card.

Any time I tried to attach another device to the PCI card,

When you say "attach another device", you make it sound like you've tried
different type/individual devices in various master/slave combinations as
the seventh device. Is the 7th device always the same gadget attached in
the same fashion? The current 5th & 6th device, are they both attached as
master at the end of separate cables? If so try the current 5th & 6th
device on the same cable with the one at the end jumpered as master and the
one in the middle jumpered as slave. Then try the new/7th gadget at the end
of the other cable jumpered as master and alone on the cable.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Thanks for the quick response. Yes, sorry, I wasn't very clear. It boots
through the initial bios screens - the fours hard disks attached to the
motherboard are discovered ok.

The system freezes when it gets to what I can only describe as the screen
with the progess bar with the green blobs (I hope that makes sense). The
green bar just goes into perpetual motion,

So the motion in the bars continues? How long have you ever waited there?

 

[Impmon]

I've never read anything about a limit to the number of IDE devices under
Windows XP, but I thought I should ask the question - is there any limit on
the number of IDE devices, or is there another possible explanation?

A few things come to my mind including improperly configured jumper
setting, non CS cable on CS enabled drive, under rated power supply,
or incompatible BIOS.

I have 5 hard drives, DVD-ROM (for reading discs) and DVD burner (for
burning only) and no trouble there other than occasional write delayed
error when moving large files between 2 HDs. I am using a cheap no
name IDE card from CompUSA ($15 IIRC) and Gigabyte 8S648FX-L board
with bios version 9b All IDE cables are the round type except for one
as no one makes 6" - 6" 3 connectors cable and the 2 hard drives are
next to the IDE port.

Oh yeah 600 watts power supply there so no worry about power loss.

 

[CWatters]

So I've just installed a new Silicon Image PCI IDE controller card
(SIL0680) with the latest drivers - and I have exactly the same problem. I
can install a single DVD drive on each controller, and it works fine. But
if I install a third drive, the system won't boot.

What happens if you install two drives on the one cable and leave the other
empty for the moment?

Could this be a cable length issue?

Power supply?

 

[JK]

Thank you for all your responses.

As regards jumpers etc, I think I have been very careful to get
configurations right. I have not used CS. I have also done obvious things
such as trying different IDE cables.

Ron - I have left it sitting at the motion bars for an eternity. Nothing
happens (i.e. no HD activity). And yes, devices 5 and 6 are attached as
master at the end of separate cables. I'm sure I have tried 5 and 6 on one
cable, but I will try it again.

Impmon - my power supply certainly is not as beefy as yours (600 watts -
good grief). Maybe that's a possibility.

I'll try playing with cable combinations again. Thanks again for the
feedback.

JohnK

 

[CWatters]

One other possibility...

That PCI card is a RAID controller isn't it? Perhaps there are some RAID
options you need to mess with?

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Thank you for all your responses.

As regards jumpers etc, I think I have been very careful to get
configurations right. I have not used CS. I have also done obvious things
such as trying different IDE cables.

Ron - I have left it sitting at the motion bars for an eternity. Nothing
happens (i.e. no HD activity). And yes, devices 5 and 6 are attached as
master at the end of separate cables. I'm sure I have tried 5 and 6 on one
cable, but I will try it again.

Impmon - my power supply certainly is not as beefy as yours (600 watts -
good grief). Maybe that's a possibility.

I'll try playing with cable combinations again.

Try device combinations also. Remove (just one) the 5th or 6th device. Then
add the new/7th device (because of the removal) now the 6th device and see
if that works.

Any gadgets like a sound card or something else that could be removed for
the 7th device tests in order to evaluate the power supply limit hypothesis?

 

[Tony]

For some time I've had the same setup: four hard disks on the two IDE
controllers on the motherboard, and two DVD drives attached to a PCI IDE
controller card, one drive on each controller on the card.

Any time I tried to attach another device to the PCI card, my system would
not boot. I put this down to an arbitrary glitch - it was an old IDE card
(Siig ATA 66) with a driver that hadn't had an update for years.

So I've just installed a new Silicon Image PCI IDE controller card
(SIL0680) with the latest drivers - and I have exactly the same problem. I
can install a single DVD drive on each controller, and it works fine. But
if I install a third drive, the system won't boot.

I've never read anything about a limit to the number of IDE devices under
Windows XP, but I thought I should ask the question - is there any limit on
the number of IDE devices, or is there another possible explanation?

System: Windows XP SP2, ECS L7VTA Socket A motherboard


JohnK

I have had a Total of 8 Devises on my System..

4 HD on the onboard ITE controller and 3 CD and one Zip drive on the Main IDE
Controller.

Promise makes better Adapters..

Alsways Fit HD to a addon controler as some do not like CD devises, in
fact some PCI IDE controlers state that..

 

[Tony]

Some of those cards dont handle optical drives that well. Likely its a side
effect of that.

Plus on some Bioses like mine, I can select from a list of drives to boot
from, like the Zip Drive, Ram stick or one of the 4 hard drives..

 

[Rod Speed]

Plus on some Bioses like mine, I can select from a list of drives to
boot from, like the Zip Drive, Ram stick or one of the 4 hard drives..

That shouldnt be producing the symptom he is seeing.

It should skip the drives that it decides arent currently bootable
even if they are higher in the list of drives to boot from.

 

[JK]

Thanks again for all the responses to my original post. Much appreciated.

I have been trying some of your suggestions. The PCI card certainly seems
happier with HDs than optical drives (the system certainly boots faster).

But I still can't attach a 7th device. I ended up with:

1st motherboard channel: two HD
2nd motherboard channel: two optical drives
1st PCI card channel: two HD

But when I try to add a single optical drive to the 2nd PCI channel, no go.

(As before, the PCI card sees the device (i.e. it appears on the device
list on the PCI IDE card bios boot screen, along with the two HD), but then
the boot process again stalls at the XP progress bar).

I've tried different cables. The one thing I haven't tried is loading a
third HD on to the PCI card, but it wouldn't make for any sensible
combination of devices even if it worked (i.e. I'd end up with a HD and
optical device sharing a channel on the motherboard, given that I don't
want to be booting the system from the PCI card).

I think it's time to gracefully concede defeat.

JohnK

 

[Rod Speed]

Thanks again for all the responses to my original post. Much appreciated.

I have been trying some of your suggestions. The PCI card certainly seems
happier with HDs than optical drives (the system certainly boots faster).

But I still can't attach a 7th device. I ended up with:

1st motherboard channel: two HD
2nd motherboard channel: two optical drives
1st PCI card channel: two HD

But when I try to add a single optical drive to the 2nd PCI channel, no go.

(As before, the PCI card sees the device (i.e. it appears on the device
list on the PCI IDE card bios boot screen, along with the two HD), but then
the boot process again stalls at the XP progress bar).

I've tried different cables. The one thing I haven't tried is loading a
third HD on to the PCI card, but it wouldn't make for any sensible
combination of devices even if it worked (i.e. I'd end up with a
HD and optical device sharing a channel on the motherboard,

Nothing wrong with that config.

given that I don't want to be booting the system from the PCI card).

I think it's time to gracefully concede defeat.

Why do you want to have 4 HDs at all ?

 

[JK]

Nothing wrong with that config.

I've always believed that you should not allow a (slow) optical drive to
share a channel with a (fast) HD. But only because I've seen it repeated so
often in various "advice columns". Is it nonsense then?

Why do you want to have 4 HDs at all ?

One is my system drive, one for data, one data mirror, and one for system
mirror and a "play area". I don't need four of course....


JohnK

 

[Rod Speed]

I've always believed that you should not allow a (slow)
optical drive to share a channel with a (fast) HD.

Its a myth.

But only because I've seen it repeated so often
in various "advice columns". Is it nonsense then?

Yep, its just plain wrong.

One is my system drive, one for data, one data mirror, and one
for system mirror and a "play area". I don't need four of course....

Yeah, makes more sense to simplify things by replacing
them with just one or two larger modern drives. Get a
worthwhile improvement in performance too. Costs peanuts.