Like DuraBrite Ink Replacements

F

Fuzzy_Warm_Cheese

Hi All i was wondering if anyone knows where i can some good non oem
durabrite bulk ink.... I have an epson cx6600 and have tried filljet
http://inkjetrefilloutlet.com/ with some horrible results... When i
tried to refill the carts with their ink it actually clogged all of the
print heads of my printer... I've finally managed to get most of them
unclogged with a kit from fixyourownprinter

I was thinking about getting some bulk ink from
http://www.colorbat.com/demon_drool.htm
Has anyone had any experience with this supplier??
 
M

measekite

Fuzzy_Warm_Cheese said:
Hi All i was wondering if anyone knows where i can some good non oem
durabrite bulk ink....
THE ONLY GOOD DURABRITE INK IS MFG AND FORMULATED BY EPSON.
I have an epson cx6600 and have tried filljet
http://inkjetrefilloutlet.com/ with some horrible results...
THATS GOOD. DID YOU GET A HEAD CLOG
When i
tried to refill the carts with their ink it actually clogged all of the
print heads of my printer...
GOOD. THATS WHAT I THOUGHT. WHY DID YOU NOT LEARN A LESSON YET?
I've finally managed to get most of them
unclogged with a kit from fixyourownprinter

I was thinking about getting some bulk ink from
http://www.colorbat.com/demon_drool.htm
Has anyone had any experience with this supplier??
LOOK ON THEIR WEBSITE. YOU WILL FIND OUT THEY DO NOT DISCLOSE WHAT THEY
ARE SELLING YOU. IT MIGHT BE THE SAME CRAP THAT RUINED YOUR PRINTER.
 
B

braine_dead

I agree with mease on this one...I don't usually agree with his
demeanor...or his use of caps! FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE! ; )
 
A

Arthur Entlich

Durabrite, besides being Epson's own name, is a patented process, so I
suspect you can't really get "non-oem" Durabrite inks.

The best you can probably do is get some type of pigment colorant inks
that have some characteristics of Durabrite inks.

Art
 
D

Davy

Epson, Canon, HP or whatever, they bring new ink out and say this will
not fade in 25 years, 50 years or even 100 years.

How do they know this when the technology has not been around for that
period, its just gotta be a estimation surely.

Now then I am gonna produce ink that will not fade in 200 years how
many folks would buy it... and who's gonna complain and want their
money back in
25, 50, 100 or 200 years time.

And you buy this non fade ink thats guaranteed not to fade in 50 years
and it does - the company has got away scot free haven't they..?

Is this called 'dead money'

Davy
 
M

measekite

Arthur said:
Durabrite, besides being Epson's own name, is a patented process, so I
suspect you can't really get "non-oem" Durabrite inks.

The best you can probably do is get some type of pigment colorant inks
that have some characteristics of Durabrite inks.

Art

AND THEN YOU GET AN UNOFFICIAL DURACLOG
 
G

Gary Tait

(e-mail address removed) (Davy) wrote in @fe02.news.easynews.com:
How do they know this when the technology has not been around for that
period, its just gotta be a estimation surely.

They use accelerated wear testing.
 
A

Arthur Entlich

Of course, all predictions about longevity of anything new is a
guestimate, but that doesn't mean the information is worthless.

The methods usually used to try to come up with a likely life of a
printer ink (and paper combo), is to expose the print to light, ozone,
moisture, or other factors being tested for either at higher than normal
levels, in a method called accelerated aging.

How do we know how long a certain car design will work, or how long a
fluid will survive until thermal or other breakdown chemically? We can
only base it on knowledge of previous similar formulations, or empirical
testing which is interpolated upon.

In the case of UV/light damage, a relatively high LUX level is used, of
banks of daylight fluorescent bulbs. Does a high level of light over a
short time have the same fading as a lower intensity does over much
longer periods? I'm not sure, in fact I doubt it, however is variables
are kept relatively constant, it may map the fading qualities of those
inks if other inks are also being tested under the same standards.

It is hardly a perfect science, but knowing the past experience of
pigment set versus dye, for instance, can provide some trend.

The main thing is to look for tests that have similar or identical
testing variables.

Art
 
D

Davy

Gotta agree it's based on 'should be' and estimations, of course th
recomended paper has to be used or the results could be void

Wonder what the results be if you lived in say beside near the se
side which can be entirely different living in a city where there i
heavy traffic etc

Have they really considered this air contamination in thei
conclusions.. any rocket scientist around..

Dav
 
B

Bob Headrick

Davy said:
Gotta agree it's based on 'should be' and estimations, of course the
recomended paper has to be used or the results could be void.

Wonder what the results be if you lived in say beside near the sea
side which can be entirely different living in a city where there is
heavy traffic etc.

Have they really considered this air contamination in their
conclusions.. any rocket scientist around..?

Henry Wilhelm is the recognized expert in this area. See
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/ for test methods and results, including
alternative inks and papers. Wilhelm is not a rocket scientist, but he has
been doing work in this field for 25 years of so. See
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/about_us.html for his credentials.

Regards,
Bob Headrick
 
A

Arthur Entlich

Henry Wilhelm is now testing for some known contaminants, such as ozone,
which is a strong oxidizer. This was something that bit Epson on the
butt with their original 6 color ink set which they and Wilhelm
predicted to have 10 or more years at the time, but which faded in days
in a high ozone environment, like near the seashore. It was a bit
embarrassing for all involved, and Epson ultimately (took a lot of
pressure) bought back printers, paper, and inks from those who had
problems with it.

The color permanence biz is hardly something that happened yesterday
however. Keep in mind that dyes are used in silver halide color
photography prints and films, and they also went through a bad period
with fugitive dyes. However, certain dyes have been known to be very
stable for hundreds of years now.

Pigments have even been around longer. They are used in everything from
cave paintings hundreds of thousands of years old, to oil paints used
many centuries ago. Some fade, some didn't, so there is a known history.

The science of archiving is also nothing new. Libraries, museums,
auction houses, all have employed them for many years, and they know
which colors tend to be stable and which are not. Of course, new dyes
and pigments are coming out all the time, and those can only be tested
in accelerated conditions, to get some idea how they will likely respond.

Lastly, things could happen to the earths "conditions" (like radiation
or gas change in the atmosphere), that may not be predictable.

Art
 
J

JonK

Arthur Entlich's advice above is well-balanced and very much to
point. In this somewhat belated post, I'd like to add just a few
things. For years now, some manufacturers, like Kodak, and some
academic researchers (see, for example, the Image Permanence Institute
publications) have been advocating a holistic approach to predicting
image degradation. This means taking into account all four major
factors (heat, light, humidity, and pollutants). Further, it's
important that these factors be in balance. That is, predictions should
not be based on one factor at an extreme level (the "worst case"
scenario) and others at more normal levels, as some have done. Further,
providing the data for all four factors will also permit consumers to
adjust the predictions for their own particular environments if they
differ from the median values.

To do this, it's necessary to measure in rigorous scientific fashion
how consumers use prints and base testing on those measurements. Much
of that work has been done in the papers by Douglas Bugner and his
colleagues (and before that, Anderson and co-workers) that have
appeared in the Journal of Imaging Science and Technology. Together
they have measured light levels, temperatures, humidity, and ozone in
typical homes around the world. As reality checks, they've hung
images in real homes to see if they agree with predictions made on the
basis of the factors.

As studies have shown, over 90% of consumer images are kept in the
dark, including people's most precious images. Thus, for many people
dark stability is of primary importance and a product chosen on the
basis of projected high light exposure may well be the wrong one.
Similarly, consumers today often display their ink jet images without
glass covers or mattes. In these cases, atmospheric pollutants may have
the greatest impact and light testing under glass (as some laboratories
practice) may be of little relevancy.

Because natural age keeping tests would not be complete before the
products themselves would be obsolete, all manufacturers, as Arthur
Entlich notes, have to use accelerated tests if they want to know how
their products are likely to perform in the real world. But, as he also
notes, high intensity tests may not cross over to normal keeping; this
is called "reciprocity failure." This is why reliable companies and
laboratories also do their tests at several levels of the factors to
check for consistency within reasonable error limits and publish the
most conservative position. (Not everyone does these tests or does them
correctly.)

Virtually all companies and testing organizations currently use cool
white fluorescent (CWF) as their light source for testing. But the
recent ground-breaking work by Bugner and co-workers has shown that CWF
may not be the best model for home lighting (though it is likely to be
correct for offices and other commercial space). That's why companies
like Kodak are starting to run tests using the more severe filtered
xenon light in anticipation that international standards could move in
that direction.

The CWF vs. xenon issue is also a good example that one size doesn't
fit all in image permanence testing. The mix of factors that influence
image fade in homes, offices, commercial spaces, and museums can be
quite different, and making claims based on the data relevant to one
environment result in bad choices for another environment.
 
S

SLLD

I have been using www.printpal.com carts ever since I bought my cx6600.
The carts are inexpensive and work great. It might not be as good as Epson
durabrite but for the cost difference , it is great.
I publish a 4 page bulliten each week and no complaints yet.
I do not work for them..

Yes I know I top postt.......
Slld
 
M

measekite

SLLD said:
I have been using www.printpal.com carts ever since I bought my cx6600.
The carts are inexpensive and work great. It might not be as good as Epson
durabrite
I AM SURRE OF THAT
but for the cost difference , it is great.
MAYBE FOR HEAVY USERS. FOR MOST IT IS NOT
I publish a 4 page bulliten each week and no complaints yet.
I do not work for them..

Yes I know I top postt.......
DATS KOOL
 
A

Arthur Entlich

Just out of interest, do you know if the inks you buy are dye or pigment
colorant? In general dye inks are less costly. Durabrite are pigment,
which have some advantages for some applications.

Art
 
M

measekite

Arthur said:
Just out of interest, do you know if the inks you buy are dye or
pigment colorant? In general dye inks are less costly. Durabrite are
pigment, which have some advantages for some applications.

DURABRITE^® IS EPSON OEM INK. NOBODY ELSE SELLS DURABRITE^® INK.
 
F

Fred McKenzie

Arthur Entlich said:
Just out of interest, do you know if the inks you buy are dye or pigment
colorant? In general dye inks are less costly. Durabrite are pigment,
which have some advantages for some applications.

Art-

I don't know about the original posters problem, but I'm having trouble
with DuraBrite ink with an Epson C-86.

When my old C-60 developed frequent clogging, I purchased the C-86. After
troubleshooting a color balance problem, I find that the C-86 prints a
watery blue (light) and appears to darken it by mixing black. The result
is a drab dark blue that doesn't compare with the beautiful "royal" blue
from the C-60.

I understand the C-60 inks fade more rapidly than DuraBrite, but I didn't
know there was a significant difference in color. I'm still on the
original set of DuraBrite cartridges. Do you think it is worth the price
of a new set to find out if I just have a bad batch of ink?

Fred
 

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