Lexmark extends its "Return Program" restrictions to ink

[Yianni]

Lexmark announced its extension of its Prebate-style program to inkjet
supplies. On Tuesday, September 12, 2006, Lexmark released the new Z845
single-function inkjet printer.

The Z845 supplies are offered at a $4 upfront discount, but subject to the
following restrictions: “Lexmark Return Program: The #28 black cartridge
reflects a $4 up-front discount compared to alternative cartridges in
exchange for agreeing to return the used cartridges only to Lexmark for
remanufacturing or recycling.”

Apparently Lexmark has also incorporated another lovely feature of the laser
Prebate program: the killer chip. According to a source from the media, the
printer has a chip that detects a refilled cartridge and turns off the
printer.

With the proliferation of ink refilling options available to consumers,
Lexmark’s move comes as no surprise. With Rapid Refill and Cartridge World
stores in hundreds of locations and refill options at Walgreen’s and other
retailers, the ink consuming nation is fast becoming aware that new
high-priced OEM products do not have to be tolerated.

SIGNIFICANT IMAGE: http://www.inkline.gr/temp/LEXMARK.jpg

 

[Rick Blaine]

the ink consuming nation is fast becoming aware that new
high-priced OEM products do not have to be tolerated.

I never understood this attitude. I can recall paying $800 and more for dot
matrix printers not that long ago.

That was painful - and the printer companies realized that a lot of people could
afford that kind of pain, so they came up with a deal where color (gasp!)
printers could be had for a song and the ink would payback the dev costs and
earn a profit.

A lot like people who can't afford to buy a car, so they lease.

 

[Taliesyn]

Lexmark announced its extension of its Prebate-style program to inkjet
supplies. On Tuesday, September 12, 2006, Lexmark released the new Z845
single-function inkjet printer.

The Z845 supplies are offered at a $4 upfront discount, but subject to
the following restrictions: �Lexmark Return Program: The #28 black
cartridge reflects a $4 up-front discount compared to alternative
cartridges in exchange for agreeing to return the used cartridges only
to Lexmark for remanufacturing or recycling.�

Apparently Lexmark has also incorporated another lovely feature of the
laser Prebate program: the killer chip. According to a source from the
media, the printer has a chip that detects a refilled cartridge and
turns off the printer.

Lexmark's polite way of saying to Lexmark printer owners: "You will hand
over that $50 to Lexmark or you will not be using your printer tonight".
It's all about money. They want you to give that $50 to them instead of
keeping $49 of it in your own pocket after spending $1 on good
compatible ink. I have used compatible inks for my previous Lexmark Z55
and they were perfect, and for a pittance! Yes, it's all about money.
Yours.

-Taliesyn

 

[measekite]

Lexmark's polite way of saying to Lexmark printer owners: "You will
hand over that $50 to Lexmark or you will not be using your printer
tonight".
It's all about money. They want you to give that $50 to them instead
of keeping $49 of it in your own pocket after spending $1 on good
compatible ink.

There is no good generic ink. And all compatible means is the ink
squirtes out fo a nozz

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I suspect the only way this problem is going to be resolved is if the
3rd party manufacturers and refillers get together and hire some high
priced lawyers to challenge the manufacturers, either that or a couple
of lawyers need to get really annoyed enough to bring forward a class
action or two.

All of this stuff is anti-competitive and should be addressed. Anyone
know some good lawyers to start a class action?

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Fine, then have them offer lease programs like some photocopy companies do.

The current business model just promotes the throw away mentality and
clogs the landfills with otherwise usable product. Further, it makes
the manufacturers cut corners on the design and build of the printers,
since they work on a very low profit margin on them.

What's more painful is people being conned into buying a printer only to
find out the first cartridge or toner replacement costs more than the
printer with the ink or toner did to begin with.

Art

 

[Rick Blaine]

I suspect the only way this problem is going to be resolved

What problem? Who's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy these
printers? If you don't like the cost of the consumables, buy a color laser or
dye sub printer. Uh, wait. Those printers cost 10x what an ink jet does...

 

[Yianni]

I suspect the only way this problem is going to be resolved is if the 3rd

party manufacturers and refillers get together and hire some high priced
lawyers to challenge the manufacturers, either that or a couple of lawyers
need to get really annoyed enough to bring forward a class action or two.

I don't think so. First of all it's legal. And in my opinion a clever (not
say "fair") tactic. Lexmark says: I sell something I don't want you to
refill it. If you want to refill it, buy the other (higher priced) one.
Lexmark says I want it back, even though if it never gets it back...
The drawback is that there aren't many non-prebate empties. The same tactic
for lasers for a few years. On the other hand many people, and big companies
remanufacture them (the prebate cartridges). I think that Lexmark wants to
have the oportunity to sue the companies that makes very high volumes.

 

[Taliesyn]

There is no good generic ink. And all compatible means is the ink
squirtes out fo a nozz

Again you insist on lying when you have no experience to speak of. I
owned a decent Lexmark and there was absolutely no visible difference in
color, fading or clogging between Lexmark and the compatible ink I used
for it (from Atlantic Inkjet). It was a great product for a minor league
printer.

-Taliesyn

 

[davec]

I don't think so. First of all it's legal. And in my opinion a clever (not
say "fair") tactic. Lexmark says: I sell something I don't want you to
refill it. If you want to refill it, buy the other (higher priced) one.
Lexmark says I want it back, even though if it never gets it back...
The drawback is that there aren't many non-prebate empties. The same tactic
for lasers for a few years. On the other hand many people, and big companies
remanufacture them (the prebate cartridges). I think that Lexmark wants to
have the oportunity to sue the companies that makes very high volumes.

But does Lexmark say that? If I want to spend the big bucks and buy a
color laser, can I refill it? I was lead to believe "no", it seems
that the more you spend, the more sophisticated the detection and
prevention schemes. I looked at a Lexmark C770, which it seems they
artificiall limit to smaller carts to begin with compared to same
engine C772, and either way, an outrageous cost for even the black
cartridge. I got over 500,000 pages from an old HP Laserjet III and
bulk toner was about $20. So could I just buy the B&W equivalent
Lexmark at $1000 and refill that? Seems not, it's now multiple times
as expensive to print mere text as it was almost a decade ago.
Progress???

 

[measekite]

Again you insist on lying when you have no experience to speak of. I
owned a decent Lexmark and there was absolutely no visible difference
in color, fading or clogging between Lexmark and the compatible ink I
used for it (from Atlantic Inkjet). It was a great product for a minor
league printer.

Anyone who had a Lexmark shows their decision making ability is
questionable and should not be believed.

 

[phineaspaine]

About 4 or 5 years ago, I met a high-level Lexmark executive (VP) at an
electronic document user group conference, and ask him quite pointedly:

"If Lexmark gave away all their inkjet printers, would the inkjet
division still be profitable?"

The answer? He could hardly get the word "yes" out between the gales
of laughter. Guess he thought it was a funny question...

This is just another mechanism to ensure maximum profitability by
freezing out the compatibles.

 

[Yianni]

I got over 500,000 pages from an old HP Laserjet III and

bulk toner was about $20. So could I just buy the B&W equivalent
Lexmark at $1000 and refill that? Seems not, it's now multiple times
as expensive to print mere text as it was almost a decade ago.
Progress???

Cost per page is lower now.
You can buy a Lexmark T640 and a cartridge $250 which will print 20,000
pages. And then you can refill it legally.
Or the same printer and a non-prebate 7,500 page cartridge. Then you could
refill it more times (say up to 35,000 pages).
Or a epson 6200, or Samsung ML-1710. Or ... There are many choices if you
want to refill the toner cartridges. But the color toners are expensive
(bulk or cartridges). Also there are color printers for easy refilling, if
you are interest on them, send me a private email.
I think that most printer manufacturers don't want to strict refilling from
individual persons. They want to avoid tons of
refilled/remanufactured/compatibles, or millions of very cheap easy
refilling kits.
I think that printer companies don't care if 20% of sold cartridges are
remanufactured, refilled or compatibles. But they don't want the opposite...

 

[mindless_drone]

Cost per page is lower now.
You can buy a Lexmark T640 and a cartridge $250 which will print 20,000
pages. And then you can refill it legally.

"Legally"? What do you mean? It should not be illegal for the
end-user/owner to use any meaures on the product they own, though
whoever made a certain device to circumvent the printer cartridge
rejection might be on thin ice.

I printed roughly half a million pages off the laserjet III at $20 per
refill, and nothing "illegal" about it. Granted I did buy a new
cartridge every now and then, so the average per page was closer to:

4 new replacement carts at about $200 each (30K carts)
4 x 30k = 120K pages from that toner, then cart refilled.
500K pages total printed minus 120K from new carts leaves 380K pages /
30K per $20 bulk toner = ~ 13 refills

13 refills * $20 = $260
4 carts * $200 = $800,
+ about $140 total over several years, cumulative shipping charges.
(+-30% on shipping, it's been awhile since I saw the receipts)

$1200 to print 500K pages is 0.24 cents a page.

Now contrast that with $250 for 20K pages, or 1.25 cents a page...
quite low, but still multiple times what it used to cost.

Or the same printer and a non-prebate 7,500 page cartridge. Then you could
refill it more times (say up to 35,000 pages).

Ok but you'll need to replace a chip too, or no? Not that this is a
big deal but again the cost goes up a little.

Newer printers certainly do greyscale better and have better power
management and sometimes interesting features, but I and many others
don't necessarily need these things on a networked B&W laser.

Or a epson 6200, or Samsung ML-1710. Or ... There are many choices if you
want to refill the toner cartridges.

Sure, I have a couple smaller printers put into a corner for odd jobs
but with a light duty printer like the ML-1710, quite a bit more of a
hassle to refill ( 1K5 page starter cart or did they ship with a full
3K?) as often and I wouldn't bet on how many pages it'll print before
it fails. For light duty use that might be fine, but for light duty
use the cost per page may not even matter as much as the initial
printer cost, which is separate issue when talking volume printing.

But the color toners are expensive
(bulk or cartridges). Also there are color printers for easy refilling, if
you are interest on them, send me a private email.

Won't other people like to know this too? Are these workgroup class
printers that hold up for hundreds of thousands of pages without
getting into the >$4000 price range? I know of HP 2600 but it's a
little lighter duty than ideal for our workload.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Rick,

Firstly, laser printers (both color and monochrome) have for the most
part moved to the same poor business model as the inkjet printers, that
being selling you the printer for nearly the cost of the toner offered
within them. The method of marketing is, IMHO, deceptive in its methods.

And you are correct, no one is holding a gun or any other threatening
instrument, over my head, which is why the newest Epson printer I
purchased is an 880, which did not have the cartridge chips
incorporated, and I buy 3rd party and bulk inks to use with them.

My frost color Epson printer cost $1000 CAN, and it uses very large ink
cartridges that were priced similarly to the now very small ink
cartridges. I felt that was a better business model, as the printers
were better built, and the consumables more reasonably priced.

However, since we are speaking about this matter, the problem is when
all manufacturers have resorted to the same business model and that has
lead to millions of discarded printers, which no one wants to take
responsibility for. The answer is a nice chunk of recycling tax on
items like this, or a mandatory "take back" program.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

The legality, at least in the US and Canada, is actually questionable.
It appears to violate the monopolistic and anti-trust laws, regarding
what is referred to as "tying" consumables and hard products.

There are a number of acts on the books about this type of issue.

Art

 

[Rick Blaine]

However, since we are speaking about this matter, the problem is when
all manufacturers have resorted to the same business model and that has
lead to millions of discarded printers, which no one wants to take
responsibility for. The answer is a nice chunk of recycling tax on
items like this, or a mandatory "take back" program.

Right... And if you suceed in driving some sort of tax on printers, or increase
manufacturers costs by forcing them to build return handling into their prices,
who do you suppose is going to pay that?

I'll give you a hint - companies do not pay taxes, their customers do.

You seem to be mad that you have to pay more than the direct cost of the ink,
yet you want policies and laws in place that make everyone pay more for the
printer.

 

[Adriatic]

You have mass up somthing. This is not control panel from Z845 .

 

[Yianni]

"Legally"? What do you mean? It should not be illegal for the

end-user/owner to use any meaures on the product they own, though
whoever made a certain device to circumvent the printer cartridge
rejection might be on thin ice.

Typicaly is illegal to refill a prebate Lexmark cartridge. Of course you can
refill it without any problem, I suppose...

$1200 to print 500K pages is 0.24 cents a page.

Now contrast that with $250 for 20K pages, or 1.25 cents a page...
quite low, but still multiple times what it used to cost.

This for oem cartridges. You can refill them too...

Sure, I have a couple smaller printers put into a corner for odd jobs
but with a light duty printer like the ML-1710, quite a bit more of a
hassle to refill ( 1K5 page starter cart or did they ship with a full
3K?) as often and I wouldn't bet on how many pages it'll print before
it fails.

On one side you are right. On the other side, there are some printers with
6000 page yield cartridges, for easy refilling and without replacing the
chip. But, I don't know any higher yield cartridge with no need to replace
the chip.

 

[Yianni]

I copied the article as it was
http://www.i-itc.org/onlinenews/2006-09-14.htm