Laptop: Vista or 3rd party defrag tool??

I

Ike

Dell laptop, Core Duo, Vista Home Premium, 120GB HD

I understand Vista is constantly defragmenting files, and
presumably doing a good job. However, on a laptop there is
rarely a time when the unit is ON but UNUSED, so presumably the
Vista defrag process for laptops is not very efficient and never
happens all at once. One might say the process is.... fragmented.

Events Viewer sometimes mentions defragmentation.

Is there a tool that can give me a snapshot of the condition of
this drive, so Vista's defrag performance can be judged?

And if it's apparent that a 3rd party product will be useful, which?

Thanks,

Ike
 
E

Eric

You could always set the time with Vista's defrag tool to run during a time
when the computer is on. You can have it run while you are doing other
things on the computer. It really doesn't slow the computer down anymore
then Vista already does. I'm not sure of any 3rd party ones that work with
vista, but a lot of times I've found when you install a 3rd party defrag
tool, things don't always go the greatest with it.
 
B

Bigguy

Ike said:
Dell laptop, Core Duo, Vista Home Premium, 120GB HD

I understand Vista is constantly defragmenting files, and presumably
doing a good job. However, on a laptop there is rarely a time when the
unit is ON but UNUSED, so presumably the Vista defrag process for
laptops is not very efficient and never happens all at once. One might
say the process is.... fragmented.

Events Viewer sometimes mentions defragmentation.

Is there a tool that can give me a snapshot of the condition of this
drive, so Vista's defrag performance can be judged?

And if it's apparent that a 3rd party product will be useful, which?

Thanks,

Ike

Diskeeper is a very good defragger - faster than Windows versions too...

It works with Vista.

Guy
 
J

Jon

Ike said:
Dell laptop, Core Duo, Vista Home Premium, 120GB HD

I understand Vista is constantly defragmenting files, and presumably doing
a good job. However, on a laptop there is rarely a time when the unit is
ON but UNUSED, so presumably the Vista defrag process for laptops is not
very efficient and never happens all at once. One might say the process
is.... fragmented.

Events Viewer sometimes mentions defragmentation.

Is there a tool that can give me a snapshot of the condition of this
drive, so Vista's defrag performance can be judged?

And if it's apparent that a 3rd party product will be useful, which?

Thanks,

Ike


You can use this command from an elevated command prompt

defrag c: -a

to tell you the current state of a drive (here 'c:' )

For more options....

defrag /?
 
I

Ike

Jon said:
You can use this command from an elevated command prompt

defrag c: -a

to tell you the current state of a drive (here 'c:' )

For more options....

defrag /?


Thanks! That worked perfectly. 3% fragmentation, and "you don't
need to..." I guess Vista defrag is working fine.

Ike
 
T

The poster formerly known as Nina DiBoy

Ike said:
Dell laptop, Core Duo, Vista Home Premium, 120GB HD

I understand Vista is constantly defragmenting files, and presumably
doing a good job. However, on a laptop there is rarely a time when the
unit is ON but UNUSED, so presumably the Vista defrag process for
laptops is not very efficient and never happens all at once. One might
say the process is.... fragmented.

Events Viewer sometimes mentions defragmentation.

Is there a tool that can give me a snapshot of the condition of this
drive, so Vista's defrag performance can be judged?

And if it's apparent that a 3rd party product will be useful, which?

Thanks,

Ike

Google AusLogics Disk Defrag.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"They hacked the Microsoft website to make it think a linux box was a
windows box. Thats called hacking. People who do hacking are called
hackers."

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot
 
M

miss-information

The poster formerly known as Nina DiBoy said:
Google AusLogics Disk Defrag.


AusLogics Defrag: Quote "The best thing about this program is that it's
free. It also has a nifty user interface and appears to work well. That's
where the illusion ends. Even Windows Defragmenter works better than this,
although probably with less panache.Unfortunately the weakest point in the
entire program is the defragmentation algorithm itself. It's not as good as
the built-in Windows Defragmenter. Considering that Auslogics uses this
freebie program to tout the virtues of its PC performance optimization
package, it only succeeded in making me extremely skeptical of the products
they sell." See:

http://donnedwards.openaccess.co.za/2007/05/great-defrag-shootout-iv-auslogics-disk.html

For some better choices see:
http://www.openaccess.co.za/BlackAndWhiteInc/Defrag.htm

m
 
C

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

"The poster formerly known as Nina DiBoy"
AusLogics Defrag: Quote "It's not as good as the built-in Windows
Defragmenter. Considering that Auslogics uses this freebie program
to tout the virtues of its PC performance optimization package, it
only succeeded in making me extremely skeptical of "

For some better choices see:
http://www.openaccess.co.za/BlackAndWhiteInc/Defrag.htm

Good links; I like this one's coverage of MFT issues...

http://donnedwards.openaccess.co.za/2007/06/great-defrag-shootout-xv-paragon-total.html

There are some dubious claims made, in some of this writing:

1) That defrag is the #1 reason for PC slowdown

Unless waiting for network, Internet or peripherals, when you wait for
the PC, you are nearly always waiting for the hard drive.

But there are three different reasons why the HD is in use:
- your working set is too large for RAM, so paging to disk
- you have "underfootware" hogging RAM, accessing disk etc.
- you really are writing to or reading from disk

So before you get to making disk use less "expensive" - of which
defragging is merely a part - you'd want to reduce disk traffic by
killing off unwanted "underfootware" (especially underfootware that
hammers the disk, like indexing or SR) and by adding RAM.

2) Implied; that transfer speed is more important than seek time

There are three aspects to HD speed at the raw platters level:
- head travel from one track to another
- latency on the right track, waiting for the right sector(s)
- rate of data to or from disk

The middle item can be discounted in various ways, such as having the
HD read everything from a track (or cylinder) into the HD's own RAM in
whatever order is fastest, then sending the requested sectors over the
interface to the PC. Buffering in HD's own RAM also unlinks the raw
disk transfer speed from that of the interface, which may vary in
speed (e.g. native S-ATA vs. external housing's USB) and which impose
their own latencies if multiple devices on the bus etc.

So that leaves moving the heads, typically reported as seek time, and
the raw data rate. Which is more important?

I'd pick moving the heads, for two reasons:
- it takes a long time, in inside-the-PC terms
- no data can flow to/from disk while heads are moving

The article speaks of locating data on tracks that are "faster" in
terms of the number of sectors per track (thus higher raw off-the-disk
rate for the HD's fixed spin speed) but this will be
counter-productive if it increases the head travel required.

The most effective way to make disk use "cheaper", is:
- pick a fast and large HD, with high capacity per cylinder
- use a fast interface in a mode that minimizes CPU use
- favor HDs with sequence intelligence?
- concentrate most-used material in a small number of cylinders

By "cylinder", I mean all tracks on all disk platter surfaces that can
be read without moving the heads to other tracks.

The last item is what defragging attempts to address (there may also
be caching and HD look-ahead efficiencies if data is in a contiguous
run of sectors too). But the problem is that the files most often
accessed may be bother the oldest ones stored at the "front" of the
volume, and the newset ones stored at the far "edge" of the file mass.

Defragging can help squeeze out all the free space to the end of the
volume, so that these two ends of the file mass are closer together -
but they will still span the file mass, especially if the "edge" of
this mass is far from needed file system structural items.

This last issue applies both to FATxx's "FAT at the front" strategy,
as well as post-FATxx strategies that locate this material in the
center of the volume, as NTFS may do.

A more effective may of reducing head travel is to split the physical
HD into partitions and volumes, such that most activity is
concentrated in a small volume. Then, no matter how fragged things
get, head travel will never be worse than the small number of
cylinders that the volume occupies.


-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
"If I'd known it was harmless, I'd have
killed it myself" (PKD)
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top