laptop is very slow

[Guest]

Hi

My partner has a Dell inspiron l6000 laptop
1.3GHz Intell celeron processor
248 Mb RAM
(Information gleaned from 'My Computer' properties)

It takes about 12 minutes to restart.
These are the timings:
(times are when the stated display goes from Click restart)
Desktop 15 seconds
'Windows is logging off' 33 s
'Saving your settings' 43 s
'Windows is shutting down' 1m 15s
Black screen, then Dell Blue bar startuo 1m 24s
Windows XP rolling blue bar 3m 17s
Black screen 3m 53s
'Windows is starting up' 4m 06s
Welcome 3m 39s
Blue screen 5m 37s
Desktop loads, spybot Teatimer messages 8m 40s
MSMessenger loads 9m 27s
DEsktop fulluy loaded, drive nor spinning 11m 52s

At startup:

MSN messenger live
Spybot teatimer
AVG
Epson printer thing
Sygate personal firewall
FreeRam XPpro
BBC new alerter
Scotty winPatrol

(there's a whole new thread about whether these are good / bad /redundant /
obsolete programs, let's not go there now please

The example of the restart is indicative of a general sluggishness in the
machine performance. For example it takes 35s to bring up Firefox.

Is it normal for it to take this time? It seems to have gone a lot slower
over time (I reckon we've had the machine about 2 years), but I can't
identify any particular thing which has slowed it down.

I've done the obvious stuff like defragging, making sure that windows is
managing the virtual memory, even messing with the graphics options (let
windows choose what's best for me)


I am a bit wary about doing a reinstall as I don't know if that would fix
the problem. I have backed up all the data on the PC but rteformatting just
feels really scary.

Any advice gratefully received

TIA

I have tried

 

[Guest]

- simple -

disable everything
from startup except
avg

all else can
be enabled and
disabled manually
and as needed.
--

<)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>

..

 

[Guest]

Thanks very much for the reply. I will try this, but I am wary about not
starting a firewall, and it still seems that > 5 mins is a long time for a
restart, even without loading any programs.

 

[Ron Badour]

My Dell laptop (2 GHz processor, 384 mb ram) loads to the windows sound in 1
minute and all programs are loaded in less than 1 1/2 minutes. If you
cannot get down to near that time on a cold boot by following db's
suggestion, than it might be time for a clean reinstallation of the system
and software providing you got the system and resource CDs when you got the
Dell. You have the hard part (backing up all your data) done--it is a
matter of following on screen prompts, having the CDs and knowing the
product key for the system disk. I assume the machine was used when you got
it and personally, I would have scrubbed the drive at that time since you
never know what you inherited along with the laptop.

 

[Guest]

Thanks Ron

We got the laptop new (so I have all the disks etc.) and my first steps were
to put the AV and firewall on it, so I doubt it's that I have inherited
anything.

Can you tell me when I do a reinstall does it require a reformat, or does it
just fix the OS leaving user settings intact? (I have only backed up email
and user files. I wouldn't know how to go about backing up all the user
settings.)

snip

My Dell laptop (2 GHz processor, 384 mb ram) loads to the windows sound in 1
minute and all programs are loaded in less than 1 1/2 minutes. If you
cannot get down to near that time on a cold boot by following db's
suggestion, than it might be time for a clean reinstallation of the system
and software providing you got the system and resource CDs when you got the
Dell. You have the hard part (backing up all your data) done--it is a
matter of following on screen prompts, having the CDs and knowing the
product key for the system disk. I assume the machine was used when you got
it and personally, I would have scrubbed the drive at that time since you
never know what you inherited along with the laptop.

--
Regards

Ron Badour
MS MVP 1997 - 2007

snip

 

[ANONYMOUS]

From time to time you need to do a clean install of the operating system
and to download all the patches manually and install them. I can send
you a spreadsheet of all the necessary patches you will need (with links
to downloads from Microsoft website) to do this. Also, I have a created
a batch file that automates everything! The patches in strict date
order are (post SP2):

Microsoft .NET Framework Version 1.1 Redistributable Package
DirectX 9.0c Redistributable for Software Developers - Multilingual
KB873339
KB885835
KB885836
KB886185
KB887472
KB888302
KB891781
KB890859
KB894391
KB896358
KB896428
KB898461
KB901214
KB893756
KB896423
KB899587
KB899591
Windows Installer 3.1 Redistributable (v2)
KB900725
KB901017
KB902400
KB905414
KB905749
KB904706
KB910437
KB904706
KB908519
Microsoft .NET Framework Version 2.0 Redistributable Package (x86)
KB911564
KB911927
KB911562
KB911562
KB900485
KB908531
KB913580
KB916595
KB918439
KB914389
KB917953
KB911280
KB914388
KB917283
KB920670
KB920683
KB920872
KB919007
KB920685
KB922582
KB922819
KB923191
KB923414
KB922770
KB920213
KB923980
KB924270
KB925720
Microsoft .NET Framework 3.0 Redistributable Package
KB926247
KB926255
KB918118
KB924667
KB926436
KB927779
KB927802
KB928255
KB928843
KB925902
KB930178
KB931261
KB931784
KB932168
KB930916
KB927891
windows Installer CleanUp Utility
KB931906
KB929123
KB935839
KB935840
KB936357
KB917344
KB923689
KB923689
KB925398
KB928365
KB938828
KB933360
KB938127
KB921503
KB933579
KB936021
KB936181
KB936782
KB937143
KB938829
Windows Script 5.6 for Windows XP and Windows 2000
KB890830

Hope this helps.

 

[Guest]

you can use the
windows firewall
instead.



--

<)))º>·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><)))º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><)))º>

..

 

[Daave]

Yes, you should be very wary about going online without the benefit of a
firewall!

You could always physically disconnect your laptop from the network
connection while you conduct your process of elimination experiment.

 

[Guest]

Hi

Thanks for this. I think this is the bit I don't fully understand. Does a
clean install of the OS trash all your user settings etc? If so, so be it,
because the machine is so slow now that it's hard to use and I will just have
to note all the settings and reinstall them or find a way of copying e.g
outlook express settings.

I am also keen to understand what it is that happens which means you need to
do this clean reinstall from time to time. On my other boxes I mess with lots
of stuff so accept I might fill the registry with stuff from poorly written
programs which I install and then discard, but I have deliberately kept
(been told to!) my hands of this machine which is why I am surprised its
performance has degraded so much.

From time to time you need to do a clean install of the operating system
and to download all the patches manually and install them.

snip

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

From time to time you need to do a clean install of the operating system

Not at all true! With a modicum of care, it should never be necessary
to reinstall Windows (XP or any other version). I've run Windows 3.0,
3.1, WFWG 3.11, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows XP, and
Windows Vista, each for the period of time before the next version
came out, and each on at least two machines (more recently three
machines) here. I never reinstalled any of them, and I have never had
anything more than an occasional minor problem.

 

[Ron Badour]

You can do a repair installation; however, I seldom see any improvement by
doing one. Formatting the partition and doing a clean installation does
take longer but in my opinion, the work is worth it. Before doing this, you
need to try db's suggestion to see if it helps. I suspect it will not but
you should try because it could save a lot of time/trouble if it does. I
don't think something minor would cause the laptop to boot so slowly. Maybe
someone else will jump in with other thoughts.

 

[Guest]

Thanks Ken

I have also had 95, 98 and XP boxes. Each of them seemed to get slower as
time went on (I admit 'seemed to get slower' is hardly scientific, but I
think a 12 minute restart is such that I would have contacted Dell straight
away if it had been there in the first place)

Can I ask a couple of questions:
If I do a format / reinstall, what is the 'modicum of care' you recommend to
maintain the system thereafter? I do regular defrags and try to clean the
registry (but I won't pay for software to do either, on principle). AFAIK
these are the key ways of cleaning a Windows install (assuming you have left
Windows to sort swap space and hardware acceleration etc.)


Have your machines degraded in performance until upgrade / what do you do to
keep your machines running well? Without doubting your word for a moment, it
is constantly a source of amazement to me that two people with apparently
similar set-ups can have such differing experiences.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Thanks Ken

I have also had 95, 98 and XP boxes. Each of them seemed to get slower as
time went on (I admit 'seemed to get slower' is hardly scientific, but I
think a 12 minute restart is such that I would have contacted Dell straight
away if it had been there in the first place)

I think you need to distinguish between the speed of the computer
while running and the time it takes to boot. They are two very
different things, and neither implies the other.

The time it takes to boot is largely a result of what programs you
have starting automatically. Since many programs insert themselves
into your list of autostarting programs without asking, it's not
unexpected that the time gets longer as time goes on, *unless* you are
diligent about not allowing this and periodically checking to see
what's there.

Can I ask a couple of questions:
If I do a format / reinstall, what is the 'modicum of care' you recommend to
maintain the system thereafter?

Here's a quick list that comes to mind:

1. Run a good antivirus program (not Norton or McAfee) regularly and
keep it up to date.

2. Run at least two good anti-spyware programs (not Norton or McAfee)
and keep them up to date.

3. Be sure you are always behind a firewall.

4. Stay away from porno sites and those that provide pirated copies of
software.

5. Avoid clicking on every link someone sends you or you read in a
newsgroup.

6. Be extremely careful what attachments you open. Even if your best
friend sends you a file, if he's infected, he could be passing the
infection on. Best practice, if your job doesn't require otherwise) is
not to open attachments at all.

7. Avoid downloading and running any of the many various programs that
provide snake oil remedies for non-existent problems. These include
registry cleaners, download accelerators, memory managers, etc.

8. Avoid running dubious programs of any kind. There's lots of junk
software out there, and downloading everything you hear about and
trying it out can get you into trouble.

9. AsI said above, watch out for what starts automatically.

There's undoubtedly more, but those are what I think of at the moment.

I do regular defrags

That can't hurt, but its importance with Windows XP and NTFS is much
less than it used to be.

and try to clean the
registry

But that *can* hurt, and severely. See point 7, above. I strongly
suggest you avoid using any registry cleaning program. Cleaning of the
registry isn't needed and is dangerous. Leave the registry alone and
don't use any registry cleaner. Despite what many people think, and
what vendors of registry cleaning software try to convince you of,
having unused registry entries doesn't really hurt you.

The risk of a serious problem caused by a registry cleaner erroneously
removing an entry you need is far greater than any potential benefit
it may have.

(but I won't pay for software to do either, on principle).

Your choice, of course. That's lots of good free software available,
and there's also lots of good paid-for software available. I don't
think much of the principle of not paying for software. I make my
choices of software based on how good it is in conjunction with how
much it costs. Sometimes I choose freeware; sometimes I choose
shareware; sometimes I choose commercial ware.

AFAIK
these are the key ways of cleaning a Windows install (assuming you have left
Windows to sort swap space and hardware acceleration etc.)

I disagree, as I said above.

Have your machines degraded in performance until upgrade

No. If they had, I would have addressed the issue, even to the extent
of reinstalling cleanly if I can't find any other solution.

what do you do to
keep your machines running well?

I think it's much more what I don't do than what I do do. See the
above.

 

[ANONYMOUS]

Not at all true! With a modicum of care, it should never be necessary
to reinstall Windows (XP or any other version). I've run Windows 3.0,
3.1, WFWG 3.11, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows XP, and
Windows Vista, each for the period of time before the next version
came out, and each on at least two machines (more recently three
machines) here. I never reinstalled any of them, and I have never had
anything more than an occasional minor problem.

You are a seasoned computer user while the majority of people asking
questions here aren't.

In any case, What is your solution to this current problem? Don't tell
us to to delete all tmp files and internet cache because this has never
worked on 99% of the cases posted here. I had the same argument with
you few months ago and we agreed to disagree on this!. do a search on
this if you want to.

Instead of messing around with the system and wasting days for a proper
solution, a clean install is the fastest way to resolve the problems.

Are you telling us that you have used W3.1 and all subsequent versions
on your current system? are you sure about it?

 

[ANONYMOUS]

You have received good responses here and the over whelming view is to
do a clean installation of the OS. You will save time and unnecessary
grief. KEN (MVP) hasn't given you any solution except that he is quite
efficient in attacking people who are willing to advice you here. It
all very well what you should do to look after your system but in your
case the system takes 12 minutes to start and no mater what you do, I
challenge you that when you do a clean install of the OS, your system
will be very faster and then you can read Ken's email for the general
maintenance of the system.

In fact you should also consider doing a hard disk clone of the system
when it is running properly so that in the future, life becomes very
much easier to restore the system to what it was subject to any hotfixes
and anti-virus updates.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

You are a seasoned computer user while the majority of people asking
questions here aren't.

In any case, What is your solution to this current problem? Don't tell
us to to delete all tmp files and internet cache because this has never
worked on 99% of the cases posted here. I had the same argument with
you few months ago and we agreed to disagree on this!. do a search on
this if you want to.

Instead of messing around with the system and wasting days for a proper
solution, a clean install is the fastest way to resolve the problems.

That's your view, and you are welcome to it. My view is that it's very
seldom true.

Are you telling us that you have used W3.1 and all subsequent versions
on your current system?

No, not on my current system. I've changed computers several times
since 3.1. And I've never had Windows Me installed on any of my
machines.

are you sure about it?

Yes, I'm quite sure. And you can change Windows 3.1 to Windows 3.0,
and I'm still quite sure (except for Me, as I said).

I also ran no Windows NT versions before Windows 2000.

 

[Guest]

You are a seasoned computer user while the majority of people asking
questions here aren't.

In any case, What is your solution to this current problem? Don't tell
us to to delete all tmp files and internet cache because this has never
worked on 99% of the cases posted here. I had the same argument with
you few months ago and we agreed to disagree on this!. do a search on
this if you want to.

Instead of messing around with the system and wasting days for a proper
solution, a clean install is the fastest way to resolve the problems.

Are you telling us that you have used W3.1 and all subsequent versions
on your current system? are you sure about it?

Hi Anonymous and Ken

I thank you both for taking the time to help me. Please don't let this
ignite a previous dispute. It is great that you both contribute to boards and
give people the chance to see different opinions.
That said, I feel as though I am going to have to follow the re-install
route. Ken's 9 points for careful maintenance have been followed, certainly
with regard to the presence of firewall (Sygate), AV (AVG) and anti-spyware
(Spybot S&D and Winpatrol) from the first possible moment. As far as the
execution of dodgy programs, be they from email links or wherever, I doubt
the user of this computer would do it at all, a: because I have explained
what the risk are and b: because they use this computer for their work and
don't have time / inclination to (Also it is scanned regularly by the
aforementioned products). I take Ken's point about the lesser requirement for
defrag with the NTFS file system, but still thought it worth mentioning that
I had done so. It struck me as likely that if I didn't mention it someone
would say 'Have you defragged your drive?'

So bearing in mind I will continue to follow Ken's advice which I will
follow when I re-install, can I ask the following:

Do I have to format the existing partition and therefore lose all the user
settings and non-windows programs (AVG, SPybot, Firewall) (I think I already
know that I will)

During the re installation can I partition the drive such that I can
allocate some space to user files and settings so that if / when I have to do
this again I don't need to worry so much about the user stuff and just
freshen up the OS?

TIA everyone who might care to answer.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Hi Anonymous and Ken

I thank you both for taking the time to help me. Please don't let this
ignite a previous dispute. It is great that you both contribute to boards and
give people the chance to see different opinions.
That said, I feel as though I am going to have to follow the re-install
route. Ken's 9 points for careful maintenance have been followed, certainly
with regard to the presence of firewall (Sygate), AV (AVG) and anti-spyware
(Spybot S&D and Winpatrol) from the first possible moment. As far as the
execution of dodgy programs, be they from email links or wherever, I doubt
the user of this computer would do it at all, a: because I have explained
what the risk are and b: because they use this computer for their work and
don't have time / inclination to (Also it is scanned regularly by the
aforementioned products). I take Ken's point about the lesser requirement for
defrag with the NTFS file system, but still thought it worth mentioning that
I had done so. It struck me as likely that if I didn't mention it someone
would say 'Have you defragged your drive?'

So bearing in mind I will continue to follow Ken's advice which I will
follow when I re-install, can I ask the following:

Do I have to format the existing partition and therefore lose all the user
settings and non-windows programs (AVG, SPybot, Firewall) (I think I already
know that I will)

It depends. If you want to do a clean installation, yes that's what a
clean installation means. You can also do a repair installation (I
wish they had just called this a "repair" instead of a "repair
installation"; it would be less likely to confuse people). A repair
installation sometimes fixes things, but it's very different from a
full, clean installation. It also often fails to fix what's wrong,
since it is not a real installation.

So the answer to your question is that it depends on what problem(s)
need correction.

During the re installation can I partition the drive such that I can
allocate some space to user files and settings

If you do a clean reinstallation, yes, you can decide how to partition
your drive. You can create as many logical drives as you want.

so that if / when I have to do
this again I don't need to worry so much about the user stuff and just
freshen up the OS?

Yes, but whenever I see someone say this, I fear that you are relying
on your data being in a second partition to protect it against loss.
In fact that is the weakest possible protection. The only real
protection is backup. If you institute a program of regular backup,
the justification for doing what you propose largely vanishes.

 

[Guest]

:

It depends. If you want to do a clean installation, yes that's what a
clean installation means. You can also do a repair installation (I
wish they had just called this a "repair" ins>
installation"; it would be less likely to confuse people). A repair
installation sometimes fixes things, but it's very different from a
full, clean installation. It also often fails to fix what's wrong,
since it is not a real installation.

So the answer to your question is that it depends on what problem(s)
need correction.

The thing is, I don't know what the problem(s) with the laptop is / are.
That's why I posted in the first place. If I can fix it without doing any
sort of install that would be my preference. I tried to give as much info as
possible in the first post to describe my situation and the problem. If there
is more that I can provide which will allow a solution to be proposed, I will
try to provide it.

I also genuinely believe that I have followed all 9 points Ken made about
keeping an install clean. Nevertheless, I now have this slow system.
my situat
So without wishing to step on any toes:
If, for whatever reason, my system is now hosed, is there anything I can do
to sort it out or should I go for the install?

If you do a clean reinstallation, yes, you can decide how to partition
your drive. You can create as many logical drives as you want.





Yes, but whenever I see someone say this, I fear that you are relying
on your data being in a second partition to protect it against loss.
In fact that is the weakest possible protection. The only real
protection is backup. If you institute a program of regular backup,
the justification for doing what you propose largely vanishes.

Ken's fears are unfounded in my case (it would have been better grammar to
follow the 'someone' with a 'he or she is' rather than a 'you are' and
certainly less provocative.). Backup is king. However I don't see that having
2 layers of data security in place, with increasing layers of difficulty /
complexity to restore, is a weaker solution than just having backups;

 

[sammysweet18]

Hi

My partner has a Dell inspiron l6000 laptop
1.3GHz Intell celeron processor
248 Mb RAM
(Information gleaned from 'MyComputer' properties)

It takes about 12 minutes to restart.
These are the timings:
(times are when the stated display goes from Click restart)
Desktop 15 seconds
'Windows is logging off' 33 s
'Saving your settings' 43 s
'Windows is shutting down' 1m 15s
Black screen, then Dell Blue bar startuo 1m 24s
Windows XP rolling blue bar 3m 17s
Black screen 3m 53s
'Windows is starting up' 4m 06s
Welcome 3m 39s
Blue screen 5m 37s
Desktop loads, spybot Teatimer messages 8m 40s
MSMessenger loads 9m 27s
DEsktop fulluy loaded, drive nor spinning 11m 52s

At startup:

MSN messenger live
Spybot teatimer
AVG
Epson printer thing
Sygate personal firewall
FreeRam XPpro
BBC new alerter
Scotty winPatrol

(there's a whole new thread about whether these are good / bad /redundant /
obsolete programs, let's not go there now please

The example of the restart is indicative of a general sluggishness in the
machine performance. For example it takes 35s to bring up Firefox.

Is it normal for it to take this time? It seems to have gone a lot slower
over time (I reckon we've had the machine about 2 years), but I can't
identify any particular thing which has slowed it down.

I've done the obvious stuff like defragging, making sure that windows is
managing the virtual memory, even messing with the graphics options (let
windows choose what's best for me)

I am a bit wary about doing a reinstall as I don't know if that wouldfix
the problem. I have backed up all the data on the PC but rteformatting just
feels really scary.

Any advice gratefully received

TIA

I have tried

Maybe you should fix unneccessary thing on your PC. Try using Chris
MEthod to work at http://www.clickaudit.com/goto/?71493