Just wonderin' :-)


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D

DL

Fido's a dog :)
I dont believe MVP's would take to kindly to this label

Its a genuine site
 
K

Kerry Brown

Trolling over here now David? Are you going to warn us all about the dangers
of .bat files? There are a lot of them available for download from many
MVP's sites, along with .cmd. .reg, etc..
 
B

BoaterDave

Thanks for that, ...... DL (?) - can you advise how you know that?
I find it difficult to tell the good from the bad nowadays! :-(

At least Bonio's are a recommended and visible product (and loved by my dog!
<g>)

David
____________________________________
 
T

Tom Willett

Go troll elsewhere.
The MVPs know it's a valid site.
And so do countless others in the MS newsgroups who have used its resources
for years.
--
===
Tom Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
===
| Thanks for that, ...... DL (?) - can you advise how you know that?
| I find it difficult to tell the good from the bad nowadays! :-(
|
| At least Bonio's are a recommended and visible product (and loved by my
dog!
| <g>)
|
| David
| ____________________________________
| | > Fido's a dog :)
| > I dont believe MVP's would take to kindly to this label
| >
| > Its a genuine site
| >
| > | >> Can those here confirm that this is a 'genuine' - bonio-fido' <g> - web
| > site
| >> with good, honest advice/links?
| >>
| >> http://mvps.org/
| >>
| >> TIA
| >>
| >> David
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|
|
 
B

BoaterDave

Hello TechB - nice to see you here! :)

I think you already know the danger of '.bat' files to us mere mortals.
My real, 'in-the-flesh', ex 'script kiddie' hacker turned PC consultant has
told
me so face-to-face. I'd rather trust him than you, I'm afraid.

David
__________________________________________________
 
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B

BoaterDave

Hello Tom Willett.

I read at the bottom of that web page a note which says "Microsoft is in no
way affiliated with, nor offers endorsement of, this site". I didn't read
that far before (earlier this year) and don't quite understand why Microsoft
does *not* endorse a web site set up by those who purport to be MVP's, who
are (I thought) rather special (and trusted) individuals.

Perhaps someone else will explain why that should be.

David
_____________________________________________________________
 
S

Shenan Stanley

BoaterDave said:
I read at the bottom of that web page a note which says "Microsoft
is in no way affiliated with, nor offers endorsement of, this
site". I didn't read that far before (earlier this year) and don't
quite understand why Microsoft does *not* endorse a web site set up
by those who purport to be MVP's, who are (I thought) rather
special (and trusted) individuals.
Perhaps someone else will explain why that should be.
Liability.

Just because you trust someone doesn't mean you want to endorse and take
full responsibility for that individuals actions.
It's not like MVPs have any actual ties/responsibilities to Microsoft. We
do what we do because we want to. Microsoft decided to recognize this with
an award - most of us would continue to do what we do whether or not the
title MVP was there. After all - in order to get recognized - you had to do
the same thing for a while.
 
B

BoaterDave

Thank you, Shenan. I understand.

Now that you are here, is it your considered view that the web site I
mentioned is safe to use?

David
_____________________________________________
 
F

Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM

BoaterDave said:
Thank you, Shenan. I understand.

Now that you are here, is it your considered view that the web site I
mentioned is safe to use?

Yes, it's safe as in won't give you malware. For the most part the
information various MVPs post there is well tested. I can't vouch for every
single thing that's there because there's too much for me to read and keep
track of all of it. Fixes are always correct but may not be appropriate or
work in every situation because of the "other program or hardware"
complication. Advice is always knowledgeable but not everyone will always
agree with any particular piece. We are individuals and don't necessarily
agree with each other about everything. As with any advice, consider the
individual giving it and their reputation.

Note that many MVPs have their sites hosted elsewhere for various reasons.
 
S

Shenan Stanley

BoaterDave said:
Can those here confirm that this is a 'genuine' - bonio-fido' <g> -
web site with good, honest advice/links?

http://mvps.org/
<snipped Rest>
Now that you are here, is it your considered view that the web site
I mentioned is safe to use?
Yes.

It is mostly links to a bunch of other sites - but at least those running
these sites have been helping people on these newsgroups for some time and
you see much of their advice repeated in some form or another every day
here. I trust the site itself and most of the advice on it - and the only
reason I say most is because I always check out any advice before taking it
in multiple places - no matter who it is from. I just like to understand
things as much as possible, it's not even a trust issue in that way.
 
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B

BoaterDave

My thanks to both Frank and Shenan. I appreciate your comments.

I've spent hundreds of hours 'experimenting'over the last 12 months,
culminating with a discussion with a young man (mid 20's) who is employed in
a local computer shop. He is a self-confessed ex 'script kiddie' hacker who
has now reformed and spends most of his time helping others by repairing
PC's and ridding them of 'nasties'. He is real and not just a 'virtual'
entity. I believe what he tells me. Perhaps that is because he is getting
married soon and has introduced me to his fiance. :)

One thing he mentioned recently was '.bat' files. He was absolutely adamant
that, with only two exceptions, other such files indicate that a PC has been
compromised, often without the knowledge of the user. I have tried to
convince others of this, but none believe me. :(

I was concerned about the web site because of the utilisation of '.bat'
files
if one follows the use of a HOSTS file, here:
http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm

Anyway, thanks for the 'thumbs-up'! :)

David
_____________________________________________________

BoaterDave said:
Thank you, Shenan. I understand.

Now that you are here, is it your considered view that the web site I
mentioned is safe to use?

David
_____________________________________________
 
G

gls858

BoaterDave said:
My thanks to both Frank and Shenan. I appreciate your comments.

I've spent hundreds of hours 'experimenting'over the last 12 months,
culminating with a discussion with a young man (mid 20's) who is employed in
a local computer shop. He is a self-confessed ex 'script kiddie' hacker who
has now reformed and spends most of his time helping others by repairing
PC's and ridding them of 'nasties'. He is real and not just a 'virtual'
entity. I believe what he tells me. Perhaps that is because he is getting
married soon and has introduced me to his fiance. :)

One thing he mentioned recently was '.bat' files. He was absolutely adamant
that, with only two exceptions, other such files indicate that a PC has been
compromised, often without the knowledge of the user. I have tried to
convince others of this, but none believe me. :(

I was concerned about the web site because of the utilisation of '.bat'
files
if one follows the use of a HOSTS file, here:
http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm

Anyway, thanks for the 'thumbs-up'! :)

David
_____________________________________________________

BoaterDave said:
Thank you, Shenan. I understand.

Now that you are here, is it your considered view that the web site I
mentioned is safe to use?

David
_____________________________________________
Shenan Stanley said:
BoaterDave wrote:
I read at the bottom of that web page a note which says "Microsoft
is in no way affiliated with, nor offers endorsement of, this
site". I didn't read that far before (earlier this year) and don't
quite understand why Microsoft does *not* endorse a web site set up
by those who purport to be MVP's, who are (I thought) rather
special (and trusted) individuals.
Perhaps someone else will explain why that should be.
Liability.

Just because you trust someone doesn't mean you want to endorse and take
full responsibility for that individuals actions.
It's not like MVPs have any actual ties/responsibilities to Microsoft.
We do what we do because we want to. Microsoft decided to recognize this
with an award - most of us would continue to do what we do whether or not
the title MVP was there. After all - in order to get recognized - you
had to do the same thing for a while.
It's not the fact that's it's a .bat file that makes it good or bad
it's the commands that it contains. A .bat is simply a series of commands.
If you want to see the contents of a .bat file simply right click and
select edit. If you or your so called "script kiddie" don't understand the
commands contained in the batch file I would suggest you find a real
computer programmer to explain to you what the file is intended to do.
Batch files are commonly used to perform redundant tasks on a schedule.

gls858
 
K

Kerry Brown

BoaterDave is a troll. He has been told that .bat files are not inherently
more harmful than any other executable file many times in other newsgroups.
He ignores everyone's advice and attempts to get unsuspecting computer users
to scan their computers for .bat files and delete any they find. He has
caused a lot of unnecessary worry by telling people they are infected and
urging them to do many different anti-malware scans. When the scans come up
empty he insists they are still infected and points them to yet another
online scanning engine. At best he is a very sophistcated troll. At worst he
is a very paranoid person who needs professional help. In any case he can be
safely ignored.
 
B

BoaterDave

gls858 said:
BoaterDave said:
My thanks to both Frank and Shenan. I appreciate your comments.

I've spent hundreds of hours 'experimenting'over the last 12 months,
culminating with a discussion with a young man (mid 20's) who is employed
in
a local computer shop. He is a self-confessed ex 'script kiddie' hacker
who
has now reformed and spends most of his time helping others by repairing
PC's and ridding them of 'nasties'. He is real and not just a 'virtual'
entity. I believe what he tells me. Perhaps that is because he is getting
married soon and has introduced me to his fiance. :)

One thing he mentioned recently was '.bat' files. He was absolutely
adamant
that, with only two exceptions, other such files indicate that a PC has
been
compromised, often without the knowledge of the user. I have tried to
convince others of this, but none believe me. :(

I was concerned about the web site because of the utilisation of '.bat'
files
if one follows the use of a HOSTS file, here:
http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm

Anyway, thanks for the 'thumbs-up'! :)

David
_____________________________________________________


It's not the fact that's it's a .bat file that makes it good or bad
it's the commands that it contains. A .bat is simply a series of commands.
If you want to see the contents of a .bat file simply right click and
select edit. If you or your so called "script kiddie" don't understand the
commands contained in the batch file I would suggest you find a real
computer programmer to explain to you what the file is intended to do.
Batch files are commonly used to perform redundant tasks on a schedule.

gls858
 
B

BoaterDave

Ooops! Sorry about that - I was deep in thought and sent the blank response
in error. :(

Perhaps it was Divine intervention - I then saw the post from Kerry Brown.
Or, as he's known elsewhere, TechB.

What you couldn't know, gls858, is that my younger son, Nick, who would have
been 36 tomorrow, tragically collapsed and died almost 8 years ago. No cause
for his death was found. He was a computer guru, with a first class degree
in Physics, and worked for ICL. He could *always* answer my queries ........
and I miss him.

I appreciate *your* help. Thank you.

My basic understanding now is that, as a 'bat' file is not a 'virus' per se,
it would (probably) not be picked up by an anti-virus programme. However, I
suspect that if such a file was surepticiously placed on one's PC, it could
issue commands to make one's PC do just about anything, including being able
to make adjustments to, in my case, NIS 2006.

If I'm right about this (and I recognise that I may have got it wrong yet
again!) unless one specifically seeks out a suspicious 'bat' file, one's PC
could apparently be working normally whilst, at the same time, be acting as
a 'zombie' for unscrupulous persons unknown. (Perhaps that is what my
'script kiddie' meant - he's no academic, that's for sure!)

Referring to the post from KB, I'd just mention that he 'advises' on the N/g
to which I was lured (by email) following posts I made here with MS back in
February. I was highly suspicious then, and still feel that there may be
those with malicious intent residing there (perhaps using the PC's of other
newsgroup members as zombies too - just my theory!). I'm aware that some
'members' there scan these MS newsgroups - perhaps looking for other
vulnerable 'clients' - I could determine no other reason.

I didn't know what a 'Troll' was this time last year. All I've been trying
to do is identify just how the 'bad guys' wreak havoc on the 'Net, not
simply 'clean' my own machine.

FWIW (and I didn't know what that meant either, then! <g>)

David
______________________________________________________
 
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G

gls858

Kerry said:
BoaterDave is a troll. He has been told that .bat files are not
inherently more harmful than any other executable file many times in
other newsgroups. He ignores everyone's advice and attempts to get
unsuspecting computer users to scan their computers for .bat files and
delete any they find. He has caused a lot of unnecessary worry by
telling people they are infected and urging them to do many different
anti-malware scans. When the scans come up empty he insists they are
still infected and points them to yet another online scanning engine. At
best he is a very sophistcated troll. At worst he is a very paranoid
person who needs professional help. In any case he can be safely ignored.
I suspected that from what others had posted. Especially the part about
needing professional help :)

gls858
 
S

Shenan Stanley

BoaterDave said:
My thanks to both Frank and Shenan. I appreciate your comments.

I've spent hundreds of hours 'experimenting'over the last 12 months,
culminating with a discussion with a young man (mid 20's) who is
employed in a local computer shop. He is a self-confessed ex
'script kiddie' hacker who has now reformed and spends most of his
time helping others by repairing PC's and ridding them of
'nasties'. He is real and not just a 'virtual' entity. I believe
what he tells me. Perhaps that is because he is getting married
soon and has introduced me to his fiance. :)
One thing he mentioned recently was '.bat' files. He was absolutely
adamant that, with only two exceptions, other such files indicate
that a PC has been compromised, often without the knowledge of the
user. I have tried to convince others of this, but none believe me.
:(
I was concerned about the web site because of the utilisation of
'.bat' files
if one follows the use of a HOSTS file, here:
http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm

Anyway, thanks for the 'thumbs-up'! :)
Hmmmm...

I cannot say I agree that the mere presence of *.bat or *.cmd files (similar
in most aspects) denotes that the PC has been compromised. I still use
batch scripts and VBSscripts every day - literally.

A batch script alone cannot tell you if a machine has been compromised. The
contents of said batch script can, but just its prescence tells you little
to nothing. After all - just because my car is in the driveway doesn't mean
I am home. Neither do the lights on in the house.

In other words - a batch script is not 'just because it is there' scenarios.
=)

Yes - batch scripts can be used for bad things. So can a lot of other
files. Doesn't mean they are.
 
K

Ken Blake, MVP

Frank said:
Yes, it's safe as in won't give you malware. For the most part the
information various MVPs post there is well tested. I can't vouch
for every single thing that's there because there's too much for me
to read and keep track of all of it. Fixes are always correct but
may not be appropriate or work in every situation because of the
"other program or hardware" complication. Advice is always
knowledgeable but not everyone will always agree with any particular
piece. We are individuals and don't necessarily agree with each
other about everything. As with any advice, consider the individual
giving it and their reputation.

To BoaterDave: I just wanted to echo Frank's very good advice above. MVPs
can almost always be trusted, but that doesn't mean that any one of us will
automatically agree with everything some other MVP says. We are individuals,
and although we may agree on lots of things, we are also likely to disagree
on others.
 
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K

Ken Blake, MVP

BoaterDave said:
My thanks to both Frank and Shenan. I appreciate your comments.

I've spent hundreds of hours 'experimenting'over the last 12 months,
culminating with a discussion with a young man (mid 20's) who is
employed in a local computer shop. He is a self-confessed ex 'script
kiddie' hacker who has now reformed and spends most of his time
helping others by repairing PC's and ridding them of 'nasties'. He is
real and not just a 'virtual' entity. I believe what he tells me.
Perhaps that is because he is getting married soon and has introduced
me to his fiance. :)
One thing he mentioned recently was '.bat' files. He was absolutely
adamant that, with only two exceptions, other such files indicate
that a PC has been compromised, often without the knowledge of the
user. I have tried to convince others of this, but none believe me. :(

I certainly don't believe you. The statement is complete nonsense. Your
young man has no idea what he's talking about. A bat file is simply a text
file containing one or more commands. Although it's possible that such
commands *could* be mailicious, there's nothing about their being in a bat
file that makes them so, and most bat files by far are completely
innoucuous. I have many bat files on this computer--some written by me, some
by others--and none of them are malicious.
 

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