Just tested HP 8250 & Canon ip6600

[Gary Tait]

I don't get what you mean. I had to download nothing to my camera (Nikon
CP5200), and nothing to the printer beyond aligning it to use Pictbridge.

Then again, compared to the cost to get a capable PC, the 6600 might be
worth it.

 

[irwell]

Whew!
Well done.
Tony

Seconded. Happy, contented, very pleased ip6600d owner and user for
six weeks now. Previous printer s820 also from Canon.

 

[Shelly]

Gary - My camera is a Canon Powershot A60, about 3 years old. So it
isn't PictBridge compatible. Canon's website says that there is a
firmware update for the camera which will make it PictBridge
compatible. However, it also has a scary little warning which says,

"Because errors in the firmware updating process may render a camera
inoperable, be sure to read the precautionary information thoroughly
before performing the firmware update."

Isn't that lovely? So maybe I'd rather just pop the memory card in the
printer rather than worry about making it PictBridge compatible!

Hey - and here's another good reason not to get a 5200 - none of the
stores I went to had one! And for something like this, I'd rather buy
local in case I have a problem with it rather than dealing with
shipping it back and forth.

Shelly

 

[zakezuke]

Isn't that lovely? So maybe I'd rather just pop the memory card in the

printer rather than worry about making it PictBridge compatible!

And the simple fact that there is no cable to lose. One less trivial
piece of $20 copper to worry about.

And for something like this, I'd rather buy
local in case I have a problem with it rather than dealing with
shipping it back and forth.

While I agree with your logic... it's not required. I have experenced
canon's warranty service and basicly it goes like this.

Got a print head problem.... they mail you a new one 1st day air, I
think they want the old one back... on your dime.
Got a printer problem they give you a choice
1. Service center
2. advance replacement 2nd day air.
a. If you can extract your printhead and ink, they give you a
referb, you must use your old printhead and ink.
b. If you can not extract your printhead and ink, they give you
either a referb or a new one.
They pay for shippment back to canon.

I'm sure local is a good option as well... but ordering from newegg I
didn't have to show canon a recript or any proof of purchace. Just
gave them my serial. It's possible your local store is on the same
system.

Epson was ok, my replacement came with ink, but I had to do the service
center which was as to be expected lower than mail.

 

[measekite]

Gary - My camera is a Canon Powershot A60, about 3 years old. So it
isn't PictBridge compatible. Canon's website says that there is a
firmware update for the camera which will make it PictBridge
compatible. However, it also has a scary little warning which says,

All you need is a simple $15.00 card reader put in your machine. If you
have a usb port then you can get a card reader that will just plug in.

"Because errors in the firmware updating process may render a camera
inoperable, be sure to read the precautionary information thoroughly
before performing the firmware update."

Isn't that lovely? So maybe I'd rather just pop the memory card in the
printer rather than worry about making it PictBridge compatible!

Hey - and here's another good reason not to get a 5200 - none of the
stores I went to had one! And for something like this, I'd rather buy
local in case I have a problem with it rather than dealing with
shipping it back and forth.

You are going to the wrong store. And here it is waiting for you.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11096390&whse=&topnav=&browse=&s=1

Look at other sources for sale prices and at Canon for rebates. One
thing about Costco is buy it try it and if you are not happy you get a
full refund without any deductions for ink used.

 

[measekite]

THE IP5200 IS HIGHER QUALITY PRINTING AND FASTER.

Seconded. Happy, contented, very pleased ip6600d owner and user for
six weeks now. Previous printer s820 also from Canon.

 

[zakezuke]

measkite said: the ip5200 is better

Offer some evidence to support this opinion... please. I have an open
mind and am willing to accept that a pritner that offers light cyan and
light magenta, even distrobution 512 nozzles / tank vs 512 and 256 for
yellow and black, and costs more by $30.00 could be worse than a
printer that costs less, uses less tanks.

However, I suspect your opinion is based on the fact that business
documents are a factor in your purchase decision, a factor that may not
a priority for someone else. On this I'll agree, the ip5200 looks like
it might be a better general purpose printer.... but the ip6600D isn't
advertised as a general purpose printer at all... but rather a photo
printer.

Now the pixus ip7500 on the other hand, as well as the mp900/950 offer
both the light cyan/magenta and pigment inks and the pigmented black.
Are you going to tell me that the ip7500 is also inferior to the
ip5200? A ï¿¥25,800 printer? Since you obviously know so much about
printers you've never seen, used, or likely have even heard of.... you
gotta have an useless uninformed opinion on the pixus ip7500 too.

 

[Tony]

measkite said: the ip5200 is better

Offer some evidence to support this opinion... please. I have an open
mind and am willing to accept that a pritner that offers light cyan and
light magenta, even distrobution 512 nozzles / tank vs 512 and 256 for
yellow and black, and costs more by $30.00 could be worse than a
printer that costs less, uses less tanks.

The 6600D has better black resolution than the 5200 and they both have the same
colour resolution. The 6600D is slightly slower as you would expect, there is
always a trade off between speed of print, resolution and cost. The 6600D is
however not a slow printer by any means. Coincidentally only last week I saw
the same set (3) of photos printed by these two printers when a customer was
deciding which to buy, it was my opinion and the customers that the ip6600D was
sharper. She actually bought an ip8500 which blew both of the others away,
overall when comparing all of the features, but at a higher price. Her need was
for quality photo printing. All of this is subjective of course, isn't almost
everything subjective with respect to photo printing? Which is why I despair
when someone says that one printer is better than another without any
supporting evidence or any allowance made for the users needs. BTW I actually
think the top end Epson photo printers like the r800 are outstanding but at a
very high price.
Keep up the good work.
Tony

 

[zakezuke]

The 6600D has better black resolution than the 5200 and they both have the same

colour resolution.

Does the 6600D have better black resolution? From what I've observed,
this is through the scanner and not documented, the actual number of
nozzles on the ip3000 and mp760 for what I presume are the black
chambers are the same, yet it's listed as having less. I suspect, I
don't know for a fact, that the ip5200 and ip6600 actually has the same
nozzles per ml but simple only uses 1/2 of them. You could be correct
and the resolution could be higher even if what I suspect is true, it
could be using the odd or even nozzles and not a set of them in even
distrobution. So either you have a case of two strokes of the
printhead assembly per line vs the ip6600 doing one stroke per line for
yellow and black.

I have also observed that some of the less spiffy printers have the
same head as the more spiffy models, and may or may not have a blue dot
on the unused nozzles... I get this from various websites that would be
a pain to find again. I've often wondered whether it was possible to
for example yank off my head from my ip3000 and mount the nozzles onto
my mp760 carrier. Dimentions and nozzle count are identical, only the
number of tanks and the size of the inktank holder differ.

But really it makes sense, the bonded screen would be easier to make a
uniform
{ link by knightcrawler
http://www.canon.com./technology/interview/chroma/chroma_p4.html }
screen and uniform heater assembly (see Ozaki-san's description) that
applies to all the respective models then it does to have several dies.
Need more nozzles? Cut out a bigger chunk. Need less? Don't use
some.

I'm willing to believe better resolution... but I suspect it's the same
resolution but printing a smaller area at a given time doubling your
chance of non-uniform printing. Either way the effect should be
postive, or at the very worst negliable.

Which is why I despair when someone says that one printer is better than another
without any supporting evidence or any allowance made for the users needs. BTW I
actually think the top end Epson photo printers like the r800 are outstanding but at a
very high price.

And oddly enough, their real high end pro-sumer model the r2400
actually uses a larger drop size than the r1800. But yes... epsons do
have some very very spiffy models, many of which I'd seriously consider
owning.

 

[Tony]

Does the 6600D have better black resolution? From what I've observed,
this is through the scanner and not documented, the actual number of
nozzles on the ip3000 and mp760 for what I presume are the black
chambers are the same, yet it's listed as having less. I suspect, I
don't know for a fact, that the ip5200 and ip6600 actually has the same
nozzles per ml but simple only uses 1/2 of them. You could be correct
and the resolution could be higher even if what I suspect is true, it
could be using the odd or even nozzles and not a set of them in even
distrobution. So either you have a case of two strokes of the
printhead assembly per line vs the ip6600 doing one stroke per line for
yellow and black.

The Canon print resolution specs are (for Black only, colour specs are the same
for both models)
ip5200 600x600dpi Maximum.
ip6600d 9600x2400dpi Maximum.
Courtesy of the Canon USA website.
I believe I can see the difference but as we have said before (well apart from
one person) beauty is in the eye of the beholder (thank goodness, what a boring
world it would be if that were not so!)
Tony

 

[zakezuke]

The Canon print resolution specs are (for Black only, colour specs are the same

for both models)
ip5200 600x600dpi Maximum.
. ip6600d 9600x2400dpi Maximum.
Courtesy of the Canon USA website.
I believe I can see the difference but as we have said before (well apart from
one person) beauty is in the eye of the beholder (thank goodness, what a boring
world it would be if that were not so!)

Ahh... the specs listed for the ip5200 black are for the pigment black
not listed for the ip6600 which doesn't offer it. If you'll review
this segment of the site you'll note
----
Color: 1024 x 2 (C, M)
512 x 2 (Y, Bk)
Total: 3,584
---- <I.e. the black, the dye black is listed as a color>


While the site clearly denotes black as being 600dpi, I believe they
are refering to the pigmented back.. Black: 512 nozzles but 512
nozzles 5pl in size, not 1 as far as i'm aware. If you example the
printhead it self you'll notice this set is larger than the others...
while being equal in number... they are side by size one set of large
and one set of small.

While I appricate you quoting the site... I believe there is a
misunderstanding due to who ever wrote this info. Black describes I
believe the pigment black, the text one. Lower DPI. Color describes
the dye set including a black, pigment black absent on the ip6600D.
And yes... they list the black resolution on the ip6600D as being
9600x2400. To why the 6600D is listed as having 9600dpi where the
ip5200 is only listed as 600dpi... to this I say they are foofoo heads
to the 10th degree.

I can believe though you can see the difference... that is reasonable.
Light inks and the I believe less strokes per line is something one can
totally notice... which is rather why I believe people when they say
the older i960 is better than the ip6000... the head was a downgrade
from the earlier model.

 

[zakezuke]

additional

Here are the specs of the pixus ip7500

You'll note (don't mind the japanese) while having a pigmented black
the back dpi is listed as being well 9600x2400 all around, where I
believe though not ever meeting this printer personaly, like the ip4200
and ip5200 will have a lower DPI for the text. Simply put... text does
not have to be dithered. They are foofoo heads in any language.

http://cweb.canon.jp/pixus/lineup/ip7500/spec.html

There is no ip5200 listed on the japanese site. Not sure why. the
ip5100 isn't listed either... which is odd as well.

 

[Tony]

Ahh... the specs listed for the ip5200 black are for the pigment black
not listed for the ip6600 which doesn't offer it. If you'll review
this segment of the site you'll note
----
Color: 1024 x 2 (C, M)
512 x 2 (Y, Bk)
Total: 3,584
---- <I.e. the black, the dye black is listed as a color>


While the site clearly denotes black as being 600dpi, I believe they
are refering to the pigmented back.. Black: 512 nozzles but 512
nozzles 5pl in size, not 1 as far as i'm aware. If you example the
printhead it self you'll notice this set is larger than the others...
while being equal in number... they are side by size one set of large
and one set of small.

While I appricate you quoting the site... I believe there is a
misunderstanding due to who ever wrote this info. Black describes I
believe the pigment black, the text one. Lower DPI. Color describes
the dye set including a black, pigment black absent on the ip6600D.
And yes... they list the black resolution on the ip6600D as being
9600x2400. To why the 6600D is listed as having 9600dpi where the
ip5200 is only listed as 600dpi... to this I say they are foofoo heads
to the 10th degree.

I can believe though you can see the difference... that is reasonable.
Light inks and the I believe less strokes per line is something one can
totally notice... which is rather why I believe people when they say
the older i960 is better than the ip6000... the head was a downgrade
from the earlier model.

Whatever the reason I do believe that black looks sharper with the ip6600D, and
Canon (whether they are misleading people or not) are saying the same thing.
As I intimated, people largely buy on how they like the look of the print, that
is why my customer bought an ip8500, she just loved the results and she is a
freelance journalist who uses her printer for proofs for her customers (high
quality glossy home and garden type of magazines) so she needs to impress. Of
course the final results are printed on commercial presses.
Tony

 

[Tony]

additional

Here are the specs of the pixus ip7500

You'll note (don't mind the japanese) while having a pigmented black
the back dpi is listed as being well 9600x2400 all around, where I
believe though not ever meeting this printer personaly, like the ip4200
and ip5200 will have a lower DPI for the text. Simply put... text does
not have to be dithered. They are foofoo heads in any language.

http://cweb.canon.jp/pixus/lineup/ip7500/spec.html

There is no ip5200 listed on the japanese site. Not sure why. the
ip5100 isn't listed either... which is odd as well.

Well I'm convinced, but only because I can't read Katakana.
Best wishes.
Tony

 

[zakezuke]

Whatever the reason I do believe that black looks sharper with the ip6600D, and

Canon (whether they are misleading people or not) are saying the same thing.

I wouldn't say misleading people... I believe canon doesn't make the
meaning of their specifications clear. I do not believe for example
that the dye black on the ip5200 is 600dpi as it has both the 5pl drops
and 1pl drops of the other colors... just simply less of them in
contrast to cyan and magenta but the same as yellow. I believe it can
lay drops of both yellow and black at the same level of fineness as
cyan and magenta.

But such things are only of interest to people looking for a document
printer... photo printing is another ball of wax. 600dpi text is good,
freaky good. 9600dpi isn't really a measure of useable dots per inch
but rather the smallest dot that can be made, the effective dpi is
actually much lower just it's a spiffy number marketing grabs hold
without explaing that in photo printing, you dither these dots into
basicly a pixle. Not so good for text as fuzzy text is harder to read,
but fab for rendering flesh tones.

But all of this is accidemic as what really matters is not the hard
core numbers but rather what it looks like. I can believe the ip6600
looks better than the ip5200 for photos. Text I wouldn't be so sure
about but I've not seen it so I can't judge.

What's sad is the only way to get both features is to buy the mp900 in
america, the ip7500 is so far as i'm aware, not offered.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Unfortunately, Shelly, this wasn't a fair test. I understand that you
wanted to reduce variables, which in most cases is not only fair, but
considered good test design, but the problem is, HP printers use a
totally different technology and formulary in their inks, and they
cannot get away with the same papers.

In order to judge the HP printer it needs to have prints done on their
own paper. Canon inks and Epson's dye inks are similar enough that both
do fine on the paper you suggested, but HP requires a swellable polymer
paper to get both long lasting and results that look best.

Swellable polymer papers have other issues (they take longer to dry out
of the printer, they aren't waterproof, and tend to fingerprint more
easily) but they do give permanence to dye inks. The microporous papers
typically used by Epson are dry to the touch out of the printer, can be
waterproof even with dye inks, come in many surfaces, but they tend to
fade more quickly if dye inks are used.

Art

 

[measekite]

Unfortunately, Shelly, this wasn't a fair test. I understand that you
wanted to reduce variables, which in most cases is not only fair, but
considered good test design, but the problem is, HP printers use a
totally different technology and formulary in their inks, and they
cannot get away with the same papers.

In order to judge the HP printer it needs to have prints done on their
own paper. Canon inks and Epson's dye inks are similar enough that
both do fine on the paper you suggested, but HP requires a swellable
polymer paper to get both long lasting and results that look best.

Swellable polymer papers have other issues (they take longer to dry
out of the printer, they aren't waterproof, and tend to fingerprint
more easily) but they do give permanence to dye inks. The microporous
papers typically used by Epson are dry to the touch out of the
printer, can be waterproof even with dye inks,

that part is not true. It does smear and spot with water.

come in many surfaces, but they tend to fade more quickly if dye inks
are used.

So far my Canon prints have not faded in 14 months sitting on a desk in
a sunny room

 

[zakezuke]

Authur Entlich said

Measkite said
that part is not true. It does smear and spot with water.

Authur is connect... Canon on OEM ink and PR101 (glossy plus) paper set
to tan and 100% dry I can run under the tap, warm water, and dry
without smearing at all. The only issue is using paper towels which
well do scratch the surface. MIS ink same results on pr-101. Kirkland
paper I tested right out of the printer and there was some bleeding but
I haven't tested a nicely tan print. I have to admit I was shocked at
first... but it is rather waterfast.

The epson glossy paper formarly available at costco I didn't enjoy the
same results with using the r200 OEM ink.