Joining hard drives

G

Guest

Hi
Heres some background info:
I have i 80 gb hard drive (the one that came with my computer) and it has 2
partiotions on it the 1st the c drive has windows on it and is ntfs. (the D
drive the recovery drive) is formatted to fat 32. I now bought a 200gb Hard
drive Formmated it to Ntfs and it is the E.

The question:

Is there a way to join my C and E hard drive to think it is one large hard
drive with software or can windows do it and how?

If i want to install windows xp pro as an upgrade from xp home while C and E
hard drives are joined (if i can join them) can i do that.


Thnx
Much appreciated
-Greg
 
C

Carey Frisch [MVP]

Q. "Is there a way to join my C and E hard drive to think it is one large hard
drive with software or can windows do it and how?"

A. No. They are two distinct and separate drives.

Q. "If i want to install windows xp pro as an upgrade from xp home while C and E
hard drives are joined (if i can join them) can i do that."

A. Since you cannot "join" two distinct drives, you can only upgrade
to Windows XP Pro on the drive that currently has Windows XP Home
Edition installed on.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

Get Windows XP Service Pack 2 with Advanced Security Technologies:
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/windowsxp/choose.mspx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| Hi
| Heres some background info:
| I have i 80 gb hard drive (the one that came with my computer) and it has 2
| partiotions on it the 1st the c drive has windows on it and is ntfs. (the D
| drive the recovery drive) is formatted to fat 32. I now bought a 200gb Hard
| drive Formmated it to Ntfs and it is the E.
|
| The question:
|
| Is there a way to join my C and E hard drive to think it is one large hard
| drive with software or can windows do it and how?
|
| If i want to install windows xp pro as an upgrade from xp home while C and E
| hard drives are joined (if i can join them) can i do that.
|
|
| Thnx
| Much appreciated
| -Greg
 
M

Matt Gibson

The only way to "join" two drives is to use a RAID controller that supports
JBOD.

Matt Gibson - GSEC
 
K

Kerry Brown

Carey Frisch said:
Q. "Is there a way to join my C and E hard drive to think it is one large
hard
drive with software or can windows do it and how?"

A. No. They are two distinct and separate drives.

Q. "If i want to install windows xp pro as an upgrade from xp home while C
and E
hard drives are joined (if i can join them) can i do that."

A. Since you cannot "join" two distinct drives, you can only upgrade
to Windows XP Pro on the drive that currently has Windows XP Home
Edition installed on.

Although you can't extend the system volume I thought using dynamic volumes
you could span other volumes across more than one drive.

Kerry
 
V

Vanguard

Kerry Brown said:
Although you can't extend the system volume I thought using dynamic
volumes you could span other volumes across more than one drive.

Kerry


Microsoft calls the partition with the boot sector and NTLDR program the
system volume and the partition with the kernel and rest of the OS the
boot volume. See http://support.microsoft.com/?id=100525. This is
opposite of how typical users would name those partitions.

Since one of the partitions is both the boot and system volume, the OP
cannot include it in a dynamic volume. The OS has to load to then load
the drivers to support the software supported dynamic volume (and manage
the database for it). Also, creating dynamic volumes destroys whatever
was there before so you would end up wiping out the OS that is trying to
creating the dynamic volume if it were even allow to proceed.

Software-managed dynamic volumes are similar to RAID hardware supported
spanning volumes. But if you have RAID than modes that support striping
make much sense. Unless you have a fetish for having everything on a C:
drive, why care if the other partition has some other drive letter?

How To Convert to Basic and Dynamic Disks in Windows XP Professional
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=309044
 
K

Kerry Brown

Vanguard said:
Microsoft calls the partition with the boot sector and NTLDR program the
system volume and the partition with the kernel and rest of the OS the
boot volume. See http://support.microsoft.com/?id=100525. This is
opposite of how typical users would name those partitions.

Since one of the partitions is both the boot and system volume, the OP
cannot include it in a dynamic volume. The OS has to load to then load
the drivers to support the software supported dynamic volume (and manage
the database for it). Also, creating dynamic volumes destroys whatever
was there before so you would end up wiping out the OS that is trying to
creating the dynamic volume if it were even allow to proceed.

Changing a basic volume to a dynamic volume does not destroy the data. It
can be done to the system volume. Go into the disk management console, right
click on Disk0 (usually C:) and pick Convert to Dynamic disk. You cannot
install XP to a dynamic volume but once it's installed it can be converted.
I was pointing out that disks can be spanned in XP, just not from the volume
that XP was installed on. In the OP his D: partition could be converted to
dynamic and extended to span his new disk. Not the answer to his question
exactly but a possibility he might want to explore.

Kerry
 
V

Vanguard

Kerry Brown said:
Changing a basic volume to a dynamic volume does not destroy the data.
It can be done to the system volume. Go into the disk management
console, right click on Disk0 (usually C:) and pick Convert to Dynamic
disk. You cannot install XP to a dynamic volume but once it's
installed it can be converted. I was pointing out that disks can be
spanned in XP, just not from the volume that XP was installed on. In
the OP his D: partition could be converted to dynamic and extended to
span his new disk. Not the answer to his question exactly but a
possibility he might want to explore.

Kerry


Sorry, it is the other way around that destroys data (converting from
dynamic to basic volumes). I've not been able to install on dynamic
volumes but you say Windows could be installed on a basic volume and
then converted to a dynamic volume. Good to know. I had read "A
spanned volume is made from free disk space that is linked together from
multiple disks (up to a maximum of 32 disks)." Well, if only free space
were used then you'd have to wipe the boot and/or system partition(s)
for Windows to get the free space. I guess the process would be to
convert the basic disk and its basic volume to a dynamic disk and a
simple volume and then adjoing that simple volume with others created
from free space available elsewhere, like the new drive, to then create
a spanned volume.

I have to wonder what is on the *outside* of the dynamic volume to
support it. The BIOS obviously doesn't support software-managed dynamic
volumes (i.e., software RAID). All it does is find the first physical
hard disk and load the code stored in the bootstrap area (first 460
bytes) of its MBR (Master Boot Record, which is sector 0). From what
I've gleaned from various articles, defining a dynamic volume blows away
the content of the MBR's bootstrap area. Indeed, the entire MBR gets
usurped since the partition table isn't there anymore (and instead a 1MB
database area is used on the disk). That would eliminate using
multi-boot managers and any other product that usurp's the MBR bootstrap
area, like GoBack.

Since "Upgrading a disk to dynamic storage will render the entire disk
unreadable to operating systems other than Windows 2000/XP", that would
preclude using PartitionMagic or any other 3rd party partitioning
software for managing your drives. The volumes within the dynamic
volume are managed by Microsoft's software RAID. DriveImage, and
probably other drive image software, doesn't support dynamic disks.
Ghost 2003's support pages says it will support dynamic disks but only
for simple volumes (those where its one, or more parts, are all on one
physical disk) and not spanned, mirrored, or RAID-5 volumes - and that
was before Symantec bought Powerquest and renamed DriveImage to Ghost.
You're also screwed if you multiboot (where you retain a basic disk) and
you used Windows XP Pro to create/convert basic volumes to dynamic
volumes (on other disks) because the other operating systems don't
support dynamic volumes; see KB article #308424.
 
V

Vanguard

I just read in some help article regarding dynamic disk that, like you
said, you cannot install Windows XP to a dynamic volume. Wouldn't that
preclude doing a Repair of Windows XP (aka in-place install)? The help
article said, "If a dynamic volume is created from unallocated space on
a dynamic disk, you cannot install Windows XP Professional on that
volume." So if setup.exe cannot recognize and install to dynamic
volumes then you cannot do a Repair of your Windows install.
 
K

Kerry Brown

Vanguard said:
Sorry, it is the other way around that destroys data (converting from
dynamic to basic volumes). I've not been able to install on dynamic
volumes but you say Windows could be installed on a basic volume and then
converted to a dynamic volume. Good to know. I had read "A spanned
volume is made from free disk space that is linked together from multiple
disks (up to a maximum of 32 disks)." Well, if only free space were used
then you'd have to wipe the boot and/or system partition(s) for Windows to
get the free space. I guess the process would be to convert the basic
disk and its basic volume to a dynamic disk and a simple volume and then
adjoing that simple volume with others created from free space available
elsewhere, like the new drive, to then create a spanned volume.

I have to wonder what is on the *outside* of the dynamic volume to support
it. The BIOS obviously doesn't support software-managed dynamic volumes
(i.e., software RAID). All it does is find the first physical hard disk
and load the code stored in the bootstrap area (first 460 bytes) of its
MBR (Master Boot Record, which is sector 0). From what I've gleaned from
various articles, defining a dynamic volume blows away the content of the
MBR's bootstrap area. Indeed, the entire MBR gets usurped since the
partition table isn't there anymore (and instead a 1MB database area is
used on the disk). That would eliminate using multi-boot managers and any
other product that usurp's the MBR bootstrap area, like GoBack.

Since "Upgrading a disk to dynamic storage will render the entire disk
unreadable to operating systems other than Windows 2000/XP", that would
preclude using PartitionMagic or any other 3rd party partitioning software
for managing your drives. The volumes within the dynamic volume are
managed by Microsoft's software RAID. DriveImage, and probably other
drive image software, doesn't support dynamic disks. Ghost 2003's support
pages says it will support dynamic disks but only for simple volumes
(those where its one, or more parts, are all on one physical disk) and not
spanned, mirrored, or RAID-5 volumes - and that was before Symantec bought
Powerquest and renamed DriveImage to Ghost. You're also screwed if you
multiboot (where you retain a basic disk) and you used Windows XP Pro to
create/convert basic volumes to dynamic volumes (on other disks) because
the other operating systems don't support dynamic volumes; see KB article
#308424.

You make some good points. The only time I actually use dynamic volumes is
on servers. They make it easier to make changes on the fly and then fix
things properly when the server is scheduled for maintenance. You can leave
some free unallocated space and then temporarily extend volumes if needed.
I've always been nervous about extending volumes across disks anyway. Every
time you add space from another volume you are increasing your chances of
losing the volume to hardware failure.

Kerry
 
K

Kerry Brown

Vanguard said:
I just read in some help article regarding dynamic disk that, like you
said, you cannot install Windows XP to a dynamic volume. Wouldn't that
preclude doing a Repair of Windows XP (aka in-place install)? The help
article said, "If a dynamic volume is created from unallocated space on a
dynamic disk, you cannot install Windows XP Professional on that volume."
So if setup.exe cannot recognize and install to dynamic volumes then you
cannot do a Repair of your Windows install.

Never tried it, would be an interesting experiment. I'm guessing you are
right.

Kerry
 
V

Vanguard

Kerry Brown said:
Never tried it, would be an interesting experiment. I'm guessing you
are right.

Kerry


I just found the following at
http://www.microsoft.com/windows200...2000/en/advanced/help/sag_DISKconcepts_10.htm:

"Reinstalling Windows 2000: You can perform a fresh installation of
Windows 2000 on a dynamic volume only if that volume was upgraded from a
basic volume. (Upgrading a basic volume to dynamic reserves the
partition table information. This information is required to perform
fresh installations of Windows 2000 on dynamic volumes.)"

So hope exists that a Repair is possible. Never yet been involved with
anyone using dynamic volumes that had to do a repair so it's nothing
I've heard of yet.
 
V

Vanguard

And I found at
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...0/server/reskit/en-us/prork/prcb_dis_ktjy.asp:

"If a dynamic volume is created from unallocated space on a dynamic
disk, you cannot install Windows 2000 on that volume.
The setup limitation occurs because Windows 2000 Setup uses BIOS calls
that only recognize volumes listed in the partition table. Only basic
disk partitions, as well as simple volumes of dynamic disk that were
upgraded from basic disk partitions, appear in the partition table.
Dynamic disk does not use the partition table to manage its volumes, so
new dynamic volumes are not registered in the partition table as they
are created. Windows 2000 must be installed on a volume that is
correctly represented in the partition table."

Be nice if this info wasn't scattered all over. Since you installed
Windows 2000/XP on a basic volume on a basic disk, it has an entry in
the partition table. Apparently converting it to a *simple* volume on a
dynamic disk does not wipe the partition table in the MBR so setup.exe
can still find it.
 

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