Is there a hyper-threading fix for Windows 2000 Pro?

J

Johnny Asia

I think I found the reason for various weird glitches Ive had since
builiding this computer, I just found out Windows 2000 Professional
doesn't support Hyper-Threading. I had it enabled on my Asus p4p800-e
deluxe with P4 2.8E

Is there a hyper-threading fix for Windows 2000 Pro?
Hyper-Threading works in Windows 2000 Server.



my system:

Windows 2000 Professional w/ service pack 4
ASUS P4P800-E DELUXE mainboard
P4 2.8EGHz
1GB Geil Dual Channel PC3200
Thermaltake 420 watt psu
WD 80 GB IDE hard drive
ATI 7200 LE 32MB video card

+
+

"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism
by those who have not got it." - G. B. Shaw


Want to know what's REALLY going on in Iraq?
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/wakeup.html
 
J

John

pope_about_town at said:
I think I found the reason for various weird glitches Ive had since
builiding this computer, I just found out Windows 2000 Professional
doesn't support Hyper-Threading. I had it enabled on my Asus p4p800-e
deluxe with P4 2.8E

Is there a hyper-threading fix for Windows 2000 Pro?
Hyper-Threading works in Windows 2000 Server.



my system:

Windows 2000 Professional w/ service pack 4
ASUS P4P800-E DELUXE mainboard
P4 2.8EGHz
1GB Geil Dual Channel PC3200
Thermaltake 420 watt psu
WD 80 GB IDE hard drive
ATI 7200 LE 32MB video card

+
+

"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism
by those who have not got it." - G. B. Shaw


Want to know what's REALLY going on in Iraq?
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/wakeup.html
Click to expand...
Yes, it's called Windoes XP.
 
J

Johnny Asia

Actually W2000 works fine with HT, and it's completely stable.

Did you install from scratch?
Click to expand...

Yes, but I'm going to reinstall. Got any tips? I'd be glad to
get some advice. I've been building AMD systems, this
is my first P4 system. I switched because I read the Intel
chips were better for audio, and the new P4's.

I read conflicting reports about enabling/disabling HT,
and ACPI. I'm going to add 24 bit pro audio card
and another hard drive for recording.

I have an Apollo Geforce 4 64MB video card I can use,
but I don't game or watch DVD's, the old Radeon LE
works fine. I have read about conflicts with ATI cards


my system:

Windows 2000 Professional w/ service pack 4
ASUS P4P800-E DELUXE mainboard
P4 2.8EGHz
1GB Geil Dual Channel PC3200
Thermaltake 420 watt psu
WD 80 GB IDE hard drive
ATI 7200 LE 32MB video card
Liteon 52X CD-ROM
Liteon 52X CD-RW
+

Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
http://johnnyasia.info

"When a man describes himself as a "guitarist from
the future" the warning bells go off,
.... But Johnny Asia really sounds like he's doing
something new. .....Check the mans' music out
and hear something different."
- Nick Dedina, Staff Writer, Listen.com
 
J

Johnny Asia

Actually W2000 works fine with HT, and it's completely stable.
Click to expand...

MS says the W2000 Server will work, kind of:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/docs/hyperthreading.doc

Windows 2000 Server Family and Hyper-Threading Technology
Windows 2000 Server does not distinguish between physical and logical
processors on systems enabled with Hyper-Threading Technology; Windows
2000 simply fills out the license limit using the first processors
counted by the BIOS. For example, when you launch Windows 2000 Server
(4-CPU limit) on a four-way system enabled with Hyper-Threading
Technology, Windows will use the first logical processor on each of
the four physical processors, as shown in Figure 2; the second logical
processor on each physical processor will be unused, because of the
4-CPU license limit. (This assumes the BIOS was written according to
Intel specifications. Windows uses the processor count and sequence
indicated by the BIOS.)




http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18428

Windows 2000 and the hyperthreading nightmare


Having worked at Intel (until just recently) on the Pentium 4, I can
tell you exactly why they recommend disabling HT on older MS OSes.

Windows XP is the first OS (from Billy the Hut) that actually
understands HT. Win2K "should" work, seeing the processor as two CPUs,
but not very efficiently. Win 95/98/ME won't as they are single
processor only, same as the Linux kernel compiled for a UP system - it
just can't see beyond processor 0. Even earlier Linux kernels won't
work properly with HT.

Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 were both released before
hyperthreading was implemented on Intel CPUs. They will identify
“multiple processors” with hyperthreading but they don’t properly
support it. In Windows NT/2000 a hyperthreaded P4 will be recognized
as two processors. In Windows XP a hyperthreaded P4 will be recognized
as a single processor containing two logical processors. So say you
have a Dual Xeon hyperthreaded system. This would be four logical
processors.

Windows 2000 Professional is limited to two processors and doesn’t
recognize the difference between a dual processor hyperthreaded system
and a quad processor non-hyperthreaded system. The 2nd logical
processor on each physical processor would never be used.

Windows XP Professional, on the other hand, would recognise the
difference between the two and would use all four logical processors.
So to answer one of your questions, there actually is more to Windows
XP than "just a fancy eye candy version of Windows 2000".





+

Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
http://johnnyasia.info

"When a man describes himself as a "guitarist from
the future" the warning bells go off,
.... But Johnny Asia really sounds like he's doing
something new. .....Check the mans' music out
and hear something different."
- Nick Dedina, Staff Writer, Listen.com
 
L

Leythos

pope_about_town at said:
Yes, but I'm going to reinstall. Got any tips? I'd be glad to
get some advice. I've been building AMD systems, this
is my first P4 system. I switched because I read the Intel
chips were better for audio, and the new P4's.

I read conflicting reports about enabling/disabling HT,
and ACPI. I'm going to add 24 bit pro audio card
and another hard drive for recording.
Click to expand...

I've only had problems on flakey hardware or with flakey drivers.
 
L

Leythos

pope_about_town at said:
MS says the W2000 Server will work, kind of:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/docs/hyperthreading.doc

Windows 2000 Server Family and Hyper-Threading Technology
Windows 2000 Server does not distinguish between physical and logical
processors on systems enabled with Hyper-Threading Technology; Windows
2000 simply fills out the license limit using the first processors
counted by the BIOS. For example, when you launch Windows 2000 Server
(4-CPU limit) on a four-way system enabled with Hyper-Threading
Technology, Windows will use the first logical processor on each of
the four physical processors, as shown in Figure 2; the second logical
processor on each physical processor will be unused, because of the
4-CPU license limit. (This assumes the BIOS was written according to
Intel specifications. Windows uses the processor count and sequence
indicated by the BIOS.)
Click to expand...

So, MS states that you are limited by the Licensing Structure of the OS
that you bought based on the CPU's that it counts - sounds like it works
to me. A Windows 2000 Professional system can use 1-2 CPU's.
Windows 2000 and the hyperthreading nightmare

Having worked at Intel (until just recently) on the Pentium 4, I can
tell you exactly why they recommend disabling HT on older MS OSes. [snip]
Windows 2000 Professional is limited to two processors and doesn=3Ft
recognize the difference between a dual processor hyperthreaded system
and a quad processor non-hyperthreaded system. The 2nd logical
processor on each physical processor would never be used.

Windows XP Professional, on the other hand, would recognise the
difference between the two and would use all four logical processors.
So to answer one of your questions, there actually is more to Windows
XP than "just a fancy eye candy version of Windows 2000".
Click to expand...

Notice what he said - TWO PROCESSORS, which would be counted as 4 on a
HT enabled Dual CPU box with Windows 2000. Since you are only using 1
CPU you can make use of the HT without any licensing problems or other
problems.

Keep in mind that HT is not the same as having 2 CPU's, in testing I
rarely see more than 30% benefit, and mostly see 10% benefit from it.

I have never found it to be a problem on Windows 2000 Professional,
Windows XP, Windows 2000 Server, or Windows 2003 Server.
 
P

Patrick Cloutier

XP managed HT really better than win2000. I'll try to find an article about
that. In some cases, XP runs 25% faster than WIN2000. I love Win2000,
actually I'm using it, but I bought a new computer with a 550 HT 3.4Ghz and
I'm going to install XP only for performance with HT

As I know, there is no Patch to correct that on Win2000... Let me a couple
of days to come back

Patrick
 
L

Leythos

XP managed HT really better than win2000. I'll try to find an article about
that. In some cases, XP runs 25% faster than WIN2000. I love Win2000,
actually I'm using it, but I bought a new computer with a 550 HT 3.4Ghz and
I'm going to install XP only for performance with HT
Click to expand...

XP does indeed make better use of HT, but 2000 with service pack 4 (I
think) will also utilize HT, though not as efficiently.
As I know, there is no Patch to correct that on Win2000... Let me a couple
of days to come back
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with HT in 2000, there are plenty of problems
with ACPI.
 
L

Leythos

pope_about_town at said:
I'll reinstall 2000 with ACPI disabled in the BIOS. Is that all I
have to do? Or do I have to press F5 too? If so, when?
Click to expand...

What does F5 have to do with it?

Disable power management in the BIOS and only use F6 if you need to
install IDE/SCSI drivers to install the O/S.
 
J

Johnny Asia

What does F5 have to do with it?
Click to expand...

http://dmzweb3.europe.creative.com/wwenglish/general/acpi.htm

install Windows 2000 with ACPI disabled in your CMOS (motherboard
BIOS) before installation or press F5 during installation to specify
your computer's configuration to obtain the same effect.
+

"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism
by those who have not got it." - G. B. Shaw


Want to know what's REALLY going on in Iraq?
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/wakeup.html
 
M

m.marien

I don't know when to press it, or for how long.
Click to expand...

Just after the setup boots. There is a pause to let you know to press F6 for
extra drivers. You can also press F5 and it will stop and ask if you what
type of computer ACPI, MPS, etc.
 
P

Patrick Cloutier

"Single CPU systems without HT can't handle more than one thread (something
that requires processing power) at a time, so they have to so one thing and
then the other. Dual CPU systems can't work on the same thread at the same
time so the workload is divided, and if there is only one one task to be
done than usually, the gain from having 2 CPUs is very small (that's why
they're not recommended for home users).

HT is sort of a cheap compromise, it can handle 2 threads at the same time
(something a regular CPU can't) but doesn't process both threads at the same
speed as it would have done if they were one at time (a thing a dual CPU
system would have been capable of). HT CPUs gain a performance boost when
handling 2 tasks but not a performance penalty when handling one (like a
dual CPU system would have been crippled to use only one CPU when processing
one thread).

You might think "But my CPU just has one thing to do at a time like playing
a game or ripping music" but actually many other programs in the background
need to use some CPU cycles while they're open (instant messaging software,
anti-virus, pop-up blocker, file sharing software (especially file sharing
software's), and other processes and services you might not even be aware
of) so HT helps more than you'd think.

What I like about HT is that it has virtually no shortcomings (some would
say it hurts performance when single-tasking but that's probably less than
half a percent). You should note though that the only Windows base OS's that
HT works on are WinXP, Server 2003 and Win2K (though not optimized for it).
If you have WinME and older, you'd have to turn HT off.
"
 
J

Johnny Asia

I'm curious about why my hard drive led blinks every few seconds, even
after sitting idle for hours, the light keeps blinking. I have never
seen my other computers do that. This old PIII 933Mhz Win 98SE
computer I'm using now doesn't blink.

Is the blinking normal?




my system:
Windows 2000 Professional w/ service pack 4
ASUS P4P800-E DELUXE mainboard
P4 2.8EGHz
1GB Infineon Dual Channel PC3200
Enermax 420 watt psu
WD 80 GB IDE hard drive
Nvidia Geforce 4 MX 440 video card

+

Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
http://johnnyasia.info

"When a man describes himself as a "guitarist from
the future" the warning bells go off,
.... But Johnny Asia really sounds like he's doing
something new. .....Check the mans' music out
and hear something different."
- Nick Dedina, Staff Writer, Listen.com
 
K

Ken

I'm curious about why my hard drive led blinks every few seconds, even
after sitting idle for hours, the light keeps blinking. I have never
seen my other computers do that. This old PIII 933Mhz Win 98SE
computer I'm using now doesn't blink.

Is the blinking normal?
Click to expand...


Could be the Indexing Service.
Shut it down permanently.
 
J

John

WinXP does this too. You are right - it doesn't happen with Win98. Annoys
the hell out of me too.
 

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