Is refurbished really better than new?


G

Guest

I have seen some people say that refurbished electronics items are
more reliable than brand new items, because when the manufacturer
fixes a broken item, they test it more than they would test a new
item. Is that true?
 
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J

John Doe

void.no.spam.com@gmail.com said:
I have seen some people say that refurbished electronics items are
more reliable than brand new items, because when the manufacturer
fixes a broken item, they test it more than they would test a new
item. Is that true?
Generally speaking, refurbished is not better than new and that's why
it sells for less. Of course there are exceptions. There are lots of
variables, just depends on what you're talking about.

It's not that simple and there's no easy answer.

Good luck and have fun.
 
E

Ed Cregger

John Doe said:
Generally speaking, refurbished is not better than new and that's why
it sells for less. Of course there are exceptions. There are lots of
variables, just depends on what you're talking about.

It's not that simple and there's no easy answer.

Good luck and have fun.


--
My big wheel in-line street skates (a.k.a. rollerblades).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/2565924423/

Google Groups is destroying the USENET archive, to hell with Google.
------------

Refurbished is cheaper than new. Not better. However, sometimes cheaper
makes the difference between having and not having. In that case, cheaper
can be better.

When buying refurbed gear, buy knowing that it is possible than you might
have to exchange it for another working model. Also be aware that the
warranty period is much shorter and that the manufacturer
(distributor/importer) has already signed the unit off and does not want to
spend their resources making you happy. It's only to be expected, since they
already took a loss on the product once (which is why it was a refurb).

Do some research before buying refurbs to find out if a particular
product/combo of components has an irrepairable flaw. I have a Gateway 5014
Pentium D powered computer that no one can fix. It reboots randomly. I've
changed out everything that I could and it still randomly reboots. It's the
only turkey I've bought in refurbed computers in over five years of paying
$350 for a $1,200 computer. I have saved enough money to absorb this Gateway
many times over and still come out ahead. But just be aware of what you are
walking into. If you want warm and fuzzies when you buy, then buy the retail
products with full, unmodified warranties.

If you can stand a financial hit now and then, reburbs may be for you.


Ed Cregger
 
T

The Coward Robert Ford

Generally speaking, refurbished is not better than new and that's why
it sells for less. Of course there are exceptions. There are lots of
variables, just depends on what you're talking about.
They sell for less because they are used parts and not because they are
less reliable.
 
J

John Doe

The Coward Robert Ford said:
They sell for less because they are used parts and not because
they are less reliable.
Oftentimes used parts are less reliable. You just don't know.
 
P

Paul

I have seen some people say that refurbished electronics items are
more reliable than brand new items, because when the manufacturer
fixes a broken item, they test it more than they would test a new
item. Is that true?
That isn't true. A new item will have received the best treatment,
under controlled conditions at the factory. You don't really know
what is involved in refurbishment. The original factory would have
the best test conditions, while the refurbisher might give a simple
bench test. Time is money, and on to the next one. They won't make
money, if they spent a lot of time on it. Expect superficial treatment
when refurbished.

Paul
 
J

John Doe

Larc said:
In my experience refurbished items tend to be more of a crap
shoot. Some stuff is returned not because there's anything really
wrong with it, but because somebody doesn't know how to install or
configure or use it properly.
Yup yup. That's a better one of many possibilities.

You get what you pay for, and the higher the risk the greater the
benefit.
 
F

Flasherly

I have seen some people say that refurbished electronics items are
more reliable than brand new items, because when the manufacturer
fixes a broken item, they test it more than they would test a new
item. Is that true?
Refurbished means I get a substantial discount, maybe half or more off
-- included a limited warranty, maybe more or less of 30 days for the
same new item with a year. How is it more reliable if they don't want
to warranty it?
 
R

rantonrave

I have seen some people say that refurbished electronics items are
more reliable than brand new items, because when the manufacturer
fixes a broken item, they test it more than they would test a new
item. Is that true?
Only if the product was originally of very poor quality because of
major production problems (often solder related) or the use of
inferior components (usually capacitors) or had design defects
(assuming the refurbishment corrects them).

A first-class refurbishment consists of making not only the needed
repairs but also any upgrades and replacing components known for
failing at high rates. Then the circuit boards are set on bed-of-
nails automated testers that can monitor hundreds of parameters during
board operation and note abnormalities that are likely to lead to
premature failure.

But in typical practice, refurbishment means little more than making
minimal repairs for only the obvious defects, and testing consists of
just leaving the product turned on all day while it sits in an
unoccupied part of the shop. In the better repair shops, the products
may even be wiggled or tapped occasionally for more thorough testing.
Don't think this happens only in Third World refurbishment facilities
because I've seen extremely sloppy work even from Panasonic.
 
G

geoff

I have seen some people say that refurbished electronics items are
more reliable than brand new items
Refurbished what? Fixing things at the componnent level went out of favor a
long time ago. MB is bad, install a new one, HDD is bad, install a new one,
etc.

--g
 
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E

Ed Cregger

geoff said:
Refurbished what? Fixing things at the componnent level went out of favor
a long time ago. MB is bad, install a new one, HDD is bad, install a new
one, etc.

--g
I have replaced three power supplies, two hard drives, one CPU and a bunch
of memory. That leaves a bad motherboard. I haven't a clue as to where to
find one. It is for a Gateway 5014, Pentium D 2.8 GHz CPU, 2MB RAM computer.
The damned thing still randomly reboots. This was a refurb and has been back
to Gateway. All they did was reload the operating system, even after I
explained that it had been reloaded a bazillion times, from different
sources and on two separate drives.

I'm running Win XP SP2 or 3 Pro and have loaded and reloaded this sucka so
many times that it is all a blur. When the computer works, it is pure
delight. Sometimes it will even go a few weeks without rebooting. Then it
can reboot 12 or more times in a single day. Last time I suspected that
someone was fracking with me via the internet, so I kept it off the net. No
difference. Even does it in BIOS without windows having been loaded. I'm at
a loss as to what to do. It uses a BTX (smaller board), so that limits my
choices. Any ideas anyone?

I've ran Memtest and a bunch of other software that others recommended
(thank you very much folks) without learning anything that could help. Of
course, that could be me too.

Ed Cregger
 
F

Flasherly

I have replaced three power supplies, two hard drives, one CPU and a bunch
of memory. That leaves a bad motherboard. I haven't a clue as to where to
find one. It is for a Gateway 5014, Pentium D 2.8 GHz CPU, 2MB RAM computer.
The damned thing still randomly reboots. This was a refurb and has been back
to Gateway. All they did was reload the operating system, even after I
explained that it had been reloaded a bazillion times, from different
sources and on two separate drives.

I'm running Win XP SP2 or 3 Pro and have loaded and reloaded this sucka so
many times that it is all a blur. When the computer works, it is pure
delight. Sometimes it will even go a few weeks without rebooting. Then it
can reboot 12 or more times in a single day. Last time I suspected that
someone was fracking with me via the internet, so I kept it off the net. No
difference. Even does it in BIOS without windows having been loaded. I'm at
a loss as to what to do. It uses a BTX (smaller board), so that limits my
choices. Any ideas anyone?

I've ran Memtest and a bunch of other software that others recommended
(thank you very much folks) without learning anything that could help. Of
course, that could be me too.
I've built computers from Day One, some significant time being from
usually refurb items from NewEgg. Screwed plenty by Computer Shopper
before I got the interent, and then Pricewatch after the internet.
Since then leaning more into NewEgg. Refurb video cards these days are
the only things that scare me . . . someboy's cheap wetdream about
overclocking. Still and relatively, refurb isn't a walk in the park,
although haven't had trouble w/ HDs, refurbs usually going to be
Seagates (full effective 5-yr remaining warranty), along with MBs and
CPUs (where I focus on bulk sales and popularity). Open box,
specifically, is what it's going to be --- given a little latitude for
what refurb is about. Case/PS/MEM need be new, as they aren't resold
items to be commonly found.

I would have suspected that MB, in your case, bingo-bango (along with
the PS). Measured it dimensionally, looked for anything proprietary
PS-wise, for comparisons for a suitable replacement -- bingo-bango,
first off, -as well- the PS. On the front of that Dell or Gateway
nameplate, I have absolutely no respect beyond -- what serves for
components. I always at least try and buy a discounted/refurb/open-
box NameBrand MB and PS. Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, Fortron, Thermaltake,
offhand for names. The two things I'm least likely to mess with when
it comes to a quality namebrand make. At the component level (sans
storage), it's around $2-300 for me to bring one up (get as many if
not all components refurb into one shipment) with speed and benchmarks
backseat to an aim of stability and longevity.
 
T

The Seabat

Did you try shorting (jumpering) the BIOS to original factory specs?
 
T

The Seabat

Do you have the manual for the MB? There should be a couple of pins
labeled CMOS or some such that will allow you to short the BIOS. Or,
just remove the battery from the MB for a couple of minutes and then
put it back. As an aside, it might even be the battery. Try a new one.
 
E

Ed Medlin

Did you try shorting (jumpering) the BIOS to original factory specs?
--------------

Nope. Never heard of such a thing. How is this done? Thanks.

Ed Cregger
Near the cmos battery there is usually 3 pins with a jumper across two of
them labled 'clr' or something like that. After powering everything down,
just move the jumper to the other two pins for a minute or so and then move
it back to where it was. You can also accomplish the same end result by
removing the battery for a few minutes then reinstalling it.


Ed
 
E

Ed Cregger

Ed Medlin said:
Near the cmos battery there is usually 3 pins with a jumper across two of
them labled 'clr' or something like that. After powering everything down,
just move the jumper to the other two pins for a minute or so and then
move it back to where it was. You can also accomplish the same end result
by removing the battery for a few minutes then reinstalling it.


Ed


Thanks, Ed.

Ed Cregger
 
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I have seen some people say that refurbished electronics items are
more reliable than brand new items, because when the manufacturer
fixes a broken item, they test it more than they would test a new
item. Is that true?
I don't know about PC manufacturing, but i have worked in quality control for an electronics company for 12 years, and i can say from first hand experience that manufacturer refurbished items ARE better than new for one reason. When an item is bran new, there is no guarantee that that item has gone through my hands (quality control). When new products are manufactured, NOT all of them go through Q.C. They only send every 3rd item through my department. There's not enough time in the day to check each and every item we make. A manufacturer refurbished item HAS to go through my hands. Regardless of what anyone on this thread says, Refurbished products receive the same treatment as any new product that comes through my department. They are ALL thoroughly inspected, and NO, we do not just turn them on and leave them on all day. That is an ignorant assumption. So it really depends on what kind of refurbishment you're talking about. If it says "Seller Refurbished" then you're taking a gamble. If it says "Manufacturer Refurbished" It is a sure thing. If you decide to buy refurbished products, ONLY buy products that are refurbished by the original manufacturer, and not some random guy with a soldering iron who fixed it himself in his garage...
 

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