Is my cpu dead?


F

firehorse

Hi,

shuttle st20g5
amd3200+
2gb ram
250gb hitachi sata II
Using built in graphics from shuttle.
windows xp sp2

Nothing overclocked. Everything worked really well for last 2 months.
only 1 bsod but everything ok after reboot.

This morning, after a tussle with the tight space, I put in a pci tv
card. Reconnected. Restarted. Fans spin up and Hard disk spins up but
nothing else happens. No monitor. No keyboard light flash. No error
beeps.

DVD opens and shuts. Put in windows dvd to boot from dvd but light on
dvd comes on but nothing after that.

I tried resetting the bios. Now the speed controlled CPU fans spins up
really loud, which is back to defaults but still no monitor or
keyboard lights.

But, after reading the instructions for resetting the bios, I realised
I was an idiot and forgot to pull out the power cable before putting
in the tv card. ARGH!

From the above symptoms, I think the cpu or memory might have gone
from a power spike?????

cmos retained their settings after the tv card so I think the cmos is
ok.
dvd, fans, disk spins so I think they are ok.

no disk activity associated with windows starting up so it appears
graphics chip isn't at fault.

I think I'm left with cpu or memory chips. I don't have a replacement
or spare for either, or another compatible pc to test them on.

I reseated cpu and memory. No change.

If memory was dead would cpu still boot up into bios say there is no
memory?

If cpu is dead then nothing happen like now?

Can I assume cpu is dead and I need a new cpu? Or is there another
explanation?

Thanks
Alan
 
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E

Ed Medlin

firehorse said:
Hi,

shuttle st20g5
amd3200+
2gb ram
250gb hitachi sata II
Using built in graphics from shuttle.
windows xp sp2

Nothing overclocked. Everything worked really well for last 2 months.
only 1 bsod but everything ok after reboot.

This morning, after a tussle with the tight space, I put in a pci tv
card. Reconnected. Restarted. Fans spin up and Hard disk spins up but
nothing else happens. No monitor. No keyboard light flash. No error
beeps.

DVD opens and shuts. Put in windows dvd to boot from dvd but light on
dvd comes on but nothing after that.

I tried resetting the bios. Now the speed controlled CPU fans spins up
really loud, which is back to defaults but still no monitor or
keyboard lights.

But, after reading the instructions for resetting the bios, I realised
I was an idiot and forgot to pull out the power cable before putting
in the tv card. ARGH!

From the above symptoms, I think the cpu or memory might have gone
from a power spike?????

cmos retained their settings after the tv card so I think the cmos is
ok.
dvd, fans, disk spins so I think they are ok.

no disk activity associated with windows starting up so it appears
graphics chip isn't at fault.

I think I'm left with cpu or memory chips. I don't have a replacement
or spare for either, or another compatible pc to test them on.

I reseated cpu and memory. No change.

If memory was dead would cpu still boot up into bios say there is no
memory?

If cpu is dead then nothing happen like now?

Can I assume cpu is dead and I need a new cpu? Or is there another
explanation?

Thanks
Alan
It could be almost anything. First thing to do is to remove everything not
needed to boot. Use only one stick of memory, video card, keyboard and
mouse. I have done the same thing you did on several occaisions without any
ill effects although it is not recommended. I assume that your system is a
micro ATX and sometimes the PSU is rather limited on some as to how many
peripherals it will accomodate. If your system boots with minimal hardware
installed, start adding back memory etc. and you might find the culprit. I
wish you luck.

Ed
 
M

Mxsmanic

firehorse said:
shuttle st20g5
amd3200+
2gb ram
250gb hitachi sata II
Using built in graphics from shuttle.
windows xp sp2

<snip>

Can I assume cpu is dead and I need a new cpu? Or is there another
explanation?

You did try removing the TV card to see if the system would come up
without it, right?

When you add or change hardware and the system fails, the first step
is to undo whatever addition or change you made, and see if the
failure disappears. If it does, it's a configuration error, or a
problem with the new hardware. If it doesn't, you damaged something
when you made your addition or change. In the former case, you can
redo the change or addition and try to resolve the configuration
problems, once you're sure that the new hardware isn't defective. In
the latter case, you'll have to replace whatever you damaged.

In this case, I doubt that the system is damaged, but there is
probably a configuration conflict with the new card you've put in.
 
D

dannysdailys

firehorsewrote:
Hi,
shuttle st20g5
amd3200+
2gb ram
250gb hitachi sata II
Using built in graphics from shuttle.
windows xp sp2

Nothing overclocked. Everything worked really well for last 2
months. only 1 bsod but everything ok after reboot.
This morning, after a tussle with the tight space, I put in a pci tv
card. Reconnected. Restarted. Fans spin up and Hard disk spins up but
nothing else happens. No monitor. No keyboard light flash. No error
beeps.
DVD opens and shuts. Put in windows dvd to boot from dvd but light
on dvd comes on but nothing after that.
I tried resetting the bios. Now the speed controlled CPU fans spins
up really loud, which is back to defaults but still no monitor or
keyboard lights.
But, after reading the instructions for resetting the bios, I
realised I was an idiot and forgot to pull out the power cable before
putting in the tv card. ARGH!
From the above symptoms, I think the cpu or memory might have gone from a power spike?????

cmos retained their settings after the tv card so I think the cmos is ok.
dvd, fans, disk spins so I think they are ok.

no disk activity associated with windows starting up so it appears graphics chip isn't at fault.

I think I'm left with cpu or memory chips. I don't have a
replacement or spare for either, or another compatible pc to test
them on.
I reseated cpu and memory. No change.

If memory was dead would cpu still boot up into bios say there is no memory?

If cpu is dead then nothing happen like now?

Can I assume cpu is dead and I need a new cpu? Or is there another explanation?

Thanks
Alan

I agree with the last poster. Micro's have very small power supplies
and you may have reached it's limit.
 
F

firehorse

Thank you ed :)

I had already removed hd, floppy and dvd. graphics is onboard.

I removed one of the dimms and the shuttle booted up into bios.

I put the dimm back in. still ok.

Put pci tv card in. dead again.

remove tv card. still dead. remove 1 dimm. booted back into bios.

I'm off to check if this is a known problem.

Many thanks for reviving my pc.

If you are ever in south london, I owe you a drink!

Thanks
Alan
 
F

firehorse

Hi,

Thanks for everybody's really helpful replies.

The first thing I did was remove the tv card (Hauppauge WinTV/PCI -
1996)

But all my attempts at reviving the pc failed.

Until I removed one of the dimms, so I was left with 1gb in the pc.

Then it booted up into bios without any problems.

I put in the other dimm. no problems.

I put in the tv card. dead pc again!

I couldn't find any report of any problems with pci slot in the
shuttle st20g5 soo...

took out 1 dimm again. booted up fine again.

Now I put in the tv card with 1 dimm.

Ta-da ... it booted ok.

Then I put in the other dimm. so now tv card and 2gb (nothing else).
Now it booted!

Put all the other stuff back in and it is ok.

My conclusion.

For my particular configuration I needed to add the tv card with 1
dimm in, make sure it boots, then add the other dimm!!!


Not sure if it is the tv card problem, memory problem or motherboard
voltage somewhere or combination of all 3.

Thank you to everyone who has responded and I hope this helps someone
else who has similar problems.

Thanks
Alan
 
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M

Mxsmanic

firehorse said:
Thanks for everybody's really helpful replies.

The first thing I did was remove the tv card (Hauppauge WinTV/PCI -
1996)

But all my attempts at reviving the pc failed.

Until I removed one of the dimms, so I was left with 1gb in the pc.

Then it booted up into bios without any problems.

I put in the other dimm. no problems.

I put in the tv card. dead pc again!

I couldn't find any report of any problems with pci slot in the
shuttle st20g5 soo...

took out 1 dimm again. booted up fine again.

Now I put in the tv card with 1 dimm.

Ta-da ... it booted ok.

Then I put in the other dimm. so now tv card and 2gb (nothing else).
Now it booted!

Put all the other stuff back in and it is ok.

My conclusion.

For my particular configuration I needed to add the tv card with 1
dimm in, make sure it boots, then add the other dimm!!!


Not sure if it is the tv card problem, memory problem or motherboard
voltage somewhere or combination of all 3.

It sounds like it might be an inadequate power supply. That would
cause seemingly random failures as you add more hardware, and it might
not ever fail twice in exactly the same way. If the power supply is
overloaded, it's only a matter of time before serious problems develop
(not to mention the constant threat of a system crash).
 
D

dannysdailys

firehorsewrote:
Hi,
Thanks for everybody's really helpful replies.

The first thing I did was remove the tv card (Hauppauge WinTV/PCI - 1996)

But all my attempts at reviving the pc failed.

Until I removed one of the dimms, so I was left with 1gb in the pc.

Then it booted up into bios without any problems.

I put in the other dimm. no problems.

I put in the tv card. dead pc again!

I couldn't find any report of any problems with pci slot in the shuttle st20g5 soo...

took out 1 dimm again. booted up fine again.

Now I put in the tv card with 1 dimm.

Ta-da ... it booted ok.

Then I put in the other dimm. so now tv card and 2gb (nothing else). Now it booted!

Put all the other stuff back in and it is ok.

My conclusion.

For my particular configuration I needed to add the tv card with 1
dimm in, make sure it boots, then add the other dimm!!!
Not sure if it is the tv card problem, memory problem or motherboard
voltage somewhere or combination of all 3.
Thank you to everyone who has responded and I hope this helps
someone else who has similar problems.
Thanks
Alan

Yes, that's the great lesson about computers and why no one person is
an expert. Sometimes, they're just plain STRANGE! LOL

Best of luck to you
 
W

w_tom

As Mxsmanic noted, an undersized power supply is one
'possible' reason for failure. Was the original power supply
undersized or failing in the original configuration? Will new
supply be sufficient? This test could have said so much
useful if performed even when the system 'appeared' to be
good.

Perform a simple test to learn whether this power supply is
sufficient. Setup a 3.5 digit multimeter to measure each
critical voltage (3.3, 5, and +12 v which are orange, red, and
yellow wires). Write simple *.bat files or equivalent so that
separate tasks continuously access each drive including a
drive on the network (via NIC), floppy, CD-ROM and anything
else that is convenient. Execute music through sound card.
Meanwhile, execute DVD in write mode. All these execute
simultaneously.

If power supply is insufficient, then each or any one
voltage will drop to or below a minimally acceptable value.
Insufficient power supply even if your system 'appeared' to be
working ok. To answer your question accurately, numbers are
necessary. That would be 11.7 for +12 volts (yellow wire),
4.87 for +5 volts (red wire), and 3.22 for 3.3 volts. If
those voltages remain valid, then your power supply is
probably sufficient for the current load.

We have assumed power supply was defective only on
insufficient information. With TV card in system, the 3.5
digit multimeter would have provided numbers that far better
identified reasons for failure. Currently, citing the power
supply as suspect was only speculation - only citing a 'usual'
suspect.
 
D

DaveW

CPU's rarely fail. With the incident that you described I'd bet that the
motherboard is dead.
 
M

Mxsmanic

DaveW said:
CPU's rarely fail. With the incident that you described I'd bet that the
motherboard is dead.

If CPUs are allowed to overheat, they fail, either immediately or
after a suprisingly long period. I've lost two machines that way (due
to fan failures).

I don't know if that's a factor here, however.
 
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E

Ed Medlin

firehorse said:
Thank you ed :)

I had already removed hd, floppy and dvd. graphics is onboard.

I removed one of the dimms and the shuttle booted up into bios.

I put the dimm back in. still ok.

Put pci tv card in. dead again.

remove tv card. still dead. remove 1 dimm. booted back into bios.

I'm off to check if this is a known problem.

Many thanks for reviving my pc.

If you are ever in south london, I owe you a drink!

Thanks
Alan
I never refuse a pint........:)

Ed
 
E

Ed Medlin

firehorse said:
Hi,

Thanks for everybody's really helpful replies.

The first thing I did was remove the tv card (Hauppauge WinTV/PCI -
1996)

But all my attempts at reviving the pc failed.

Until I removed one of the dimms, so I was left with 1gb in the pc.

Then it booted up into bios without any problems.

I put in the other dimm. no problems.

I put in the tv card. dead pc again!

I couldn't find any report of any problems with pci slot in the
shuttle st20g5 soo...

took out 1 dimm again. booted up fine again.

Now I put in the tv card with 1 dimm.

Ta-da ... it booted ok.

Then I put in the other dimm. so now tv card and 2gb (nothing else).
Now it booted!

Put all the other stuff back in and it is ok.

My conclusion.

For my particular configuration I needed to add the tv card with 1
dimm in, make sure it boots, then add the other dimm!!!


Not sure if it is the tv card problem, memory problem or motherboard
voltage somewhere or combination of all 3.

Thank you to everyone who has responded and I hope this helps someone
else who has similar problems.

Thanks
Alan

If the problem rears it's head again, think about a PSU. All the symptoms
seem to point that way because of the way it fails to boot as you add all
your peripherals at once. One thing about computers is that strange things
do happen and it also may operate normally for a long time.........:)

Ed
 
F

firehorse

Hi,[quote:7a5d4bee0d="w_tom"]As Mxsmanic noted, an undersized powe
supply is on
'possible' reason for failure. Was the original power suppl
undersized or failing in the original configuration? Will ne
supply be sufficient? This test could have said so muc
useful if performed even when the system 'appeared' to b
good

Perform a simple test to learn whether this power supply i
sufficient. Setup a 3.5 digit multimeter to measure eac
critical voltage (3.3, 5, and +12 v which are orange, red, an
yellow wires). Write simple *.bat files or equivalent so tha
separate tasks continuously access each drive including
drive on the network (via NIC), floppy, CD-ROM and anythin
else that is convenient. Execute music through sound card.
Meanwhile, execute DVD in write mode. All these execut
simultaneously

If power supply is insufficient, then each or any on
voltage will drop to or below a minimally acceptable value
Insufficient power supply even if your system 'appeared' to b
working ok. To answer your question accurately, numbers ar
necessary. That would be 11.7 for +12 volts (yellow wire)
4.87 for +5 volts (red wire), and 3.22 for 3.3 volts. I
those voltages remain valid, then your power supply i
probably sufficient for the current load

We have assumed power supply was defective only o
insufficient information. With TV card in system, the 3.
digit multimeter would have provided numbers that far bette
identified reasons for failure. Currently, citing the powe
supply as suspect was only speculation - only citing a 'usual
suspect
[/quote:7a5d4bee0d]It might be the psu. Unfortunately I don't have
3.5 digit multimeter to test that bit

It is the original psu

The fault still reoccurred after I took out the floppy, dvd and har
disk
There is no graphics card either as I was using the onboard graphics
<shrug

And after putting the the tv card with just one dimm and getting th
shuttle to boot, I was able to add everything else in without an
problems

Anyway, thanks to Ed's suggestion of pulling out mem chips to test th
mem chips, I stumbled on a solution

As there are no complaints about lack of psu power on the sfftec
forums I assumed my st20g5 didn't have a lack of power

Best regard
Ala
 
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F

firehorse

Hi[quote:5ca2e44475="Ed Medlin"]
I never refuse a pint........:)

Ed[/quote:5ca2e44475]You saved me a load of grief! :D :thumbsup:

Alan
 

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