Is it wrong to install WordPerfect 5.1 on a Win XP machine?

[Cymbal Man Freq.]

WordPerfect 5.1 was built to be used on a DOS 6.22 machine.
I figure if it is installed, the Win XP machine won't boot because Notepad
wouldn't be accessed to start the machine, WordPerfect 5.1 would be. WordPerfect
5.1 has a file association on .txt files, as does Notepad. Also, Notepad can
become bigger in Wordpad when .dat files within Notepad exceed 50K; I don't
believe WordPerfect 5.1 can handle files several megabytes large, but I don't
know.

There is an emulated version of WordPerfect 5.1 in the new Corel Office 12, but
I'm not talking about that version.

 

[JS]

DOS as you use to know it gone, the command prompt in Windows XP is not DOS
per say.
Also XP will not allow any application to bypass windows and attempt a
direct write to the disk as an example.
XP does have a compatibility mode for older programs but I can't help you
since I don't use this mode and also don't have WordPerfect.

JS

 

[Don MI]

WordPerfect 5.1 was built to be used on a DOS 6.22 machine.
I figure if it is installed, the Win XP machine won't boot because Notepad
wouldn't be accessed to start the machine, WordPerfect 5.1 would be.
WordPerfect
5.1 has a file association on .txt files, as does Notepad. Also, Notepad
can
become bigger in Wordpad when .dat files within Notepad exceed 50K; I
don't
believe WordPerfect 5.1 can handle files several megabytes large, but I
don't
know.

There is an emulated version of WordPerfect 5.1 in the new Corel Office
12, but
I'm not talking about that version.

Windows does not access Notepad to boot. Nor, does the program you associate
with the TXT file type have any effect on the abililty of Windows to boot.

Of WordPerfect, I know not.

Don

 

[Bruce Chambers]

WordPerfect 5.1 was built to be used on a DOS 6.22 machine.

True, it's a very old program, so I don'tknow if it can be made to work
in compatibility mode, or not.

I figure if it is installed, the Win XP machine won't boot because Notepad
wouldn't be accessed to start the machine, WordPerfect 5.1 would be.

Ok, this sentence makes no sense, at all. Neither NotePad nor
WordPerfect have any effect whatsoever on a computer's being able to boot.

WordPerfect
5.1 has a file association on .txt files, as does Notepad. Also, Notepad can
become bigger in Wordpad when .dat files within Notepad exceed 50K; I don't
believe WordPerfect 5.1 can handle files several megabytes large, but I don't
know.

There is an emulated version of WordPerfect 5.1 in the new Corel Office 12, but
I'm not talking about that version.

Did you actually have a question?


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

Windows does not access Notepad to boot. Nor, does the program you associate
with the TXT file type have any effect on the abililty of Windows to boot.

Correct - I'm surprised these myths wren't dispelled a while back

Of WordPerfect, I know not.

DOS apps generally will not be allowed to destabalize an NT-family OS,
such as XP - so there's no harm in trying it. There's no integration
of DOS apps at the file association level unless you instigate that,
and as XP doesn't run apps from Config.sys or Autoexec.bat, the DOS
app can't embed itself in that way either.

I'm pretty sure I've used WP 5.1 OK (and as a scrape-over, not as a
formal install) in XP, along with WordStar 5 and other crusty DOS
apps. The only DOS apps that often hard-lock Windows are those that
play deeply with the parallel port, e.g. Lap Link, and even there I
expect XP won't hard-lock system-wide as Win9x did.

------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope

 

[Don Taylor]

WordPerfect 5.1 was built to be used on a DOS 6.22 machine.
I figure if it is installed, the Win XP machine won't boot because Notepad
wouldn't be accessed to start the machine, WordPerfect 5.1 would be. WordPerfect
5.1 has a file association on .txt files, as does Notepad. Also, Notepad can
become bigger in Wordpad when .dat files within Notepad exceed 50K; I don't
believe WordPerfect 5.1 can handle files several megabytes large, but I don't
know.

There is an emulated version of WordPerfect 5.1 in the new Corel Office 12, but
I'm not talking about that version.

I think you need to correct some serious misunderstandings here.

Word Perfect 5.1 will install and run under XP just fine.

In fact, if you have healthcare then, even though you don't know it,
there is an army of people working in a closet somewhere, banging
on keyboards, keeping your medical records up to date and they are
most likely all STILL using WP5.1 to do this, with lots forced into
using XP as an OS. (I keep some of these machines and software working)

Some WP5.1 users also need keyboard macro expanders and dictionaries
and all sorts of other things that ran under WP and under DOS.
Getting those to work correctly under XP can be challenging. Finding
a WP printer file that will work with your version of printer can
also be challenging. But it can be done and is used every day.

WP5.1 has NO association with .txt or with any other file extension.
File extensions to denote file types were never anything that the
developers or the users of WP5.1 ever understood or used. More
often, they use file extensions to help keep track of where the file
came from, because many of these folks work with thousands of files
a month and as far as they are concerned there is NOTHING BUT WP5.1,
so what do you mean "file type"?.

If you have somehow used XP to associate .txt with WP I might
recommend removing that association, just to be cautious.

Having .txt associated with WP instead of Notepad should have nothing
to do with the ability of XP to boot. But if this does make XP catch
fire then I want video of this and I will pay good money for that.

I would be surprised if there are not file size limits in WP but I
cannot find this documented in my copy of the manual or my notes.

However, on page 457 of the manual it does state:

Overflow Files
The part of the document which does not fit into memory is spilled
into "overflow" files on disk until all available disk space is
used. This means you that you can increase potential editing space
by increasing memory and/or disk space.

Just as an experiment on my test machine, I just created a 4.67
megabyte WP file and it starts, loads, runs, and saves just fine
in the blink of an eye. That was something near 65k lines. Try
having MS Word bring up a file like that before you can get your
fingers off the keyboard.

The manual also states that WP5.1 can use Expanded memory but cannot
use Extended memory, and has notes like "if you have at least 592k
of expanded memory then you can..."

I hope what I have written here helps correct some misunderstandings.

 

[Doug]

Notwithstanding the fact that WordPerfect 5.1 can be used under
Win XP, wouldn't it be prudent to switch sooner or later to the
NEW WordPerfect versions? Old files created under version 5.1
can still be read and modified as I have done so.

Version 5.1 once learned was quite a good word processor for its
time. I can appreciate the difficulties with finding proper
drivers while using XP tho'.

Doug
-

 

[Cymbal Man Freq.]

| Notwithstanding the fact that WordPerfect 5.1 can be used under
| Win XP, wouldn't it be prudent to switch sooner or later to the
| NEW WordPerfect versions? Old files created under version 5.1
| can still be read and modified as I have done so.
|
| Version 5.1 once learned was quite a good word processor for its
| time. I can appreciate the difficulties with finding proper
| drivers while using XP tho'.
|
| Doug

My blind father is using a crumbling DOS machine; it got infected by a virus two
years ago and may have a boot sector virus (his first virus in years from
checking his e-mail and he never used anti-virus), and his 16 MB of RAM has
shriveled down to 4 MB of RAM. He is massively resistant to change, well past
the point of obstructionism. He just got a donated Win XP Pro machine (PIII 733
mhz, 384 MB RAM, 20 GB HDD with 5 GB in use, and no cd/dvd burner - a machine I
told him to avoid but it was free and he wouldn't avoid it). He'll be using the
machine for scanning/OCR to text files, and for checking his e-mail in Outlook
2003 and saving those e-mails in text files.

If he wanted to install the DOS version of WordPerfect 5.1 onto the Win XP
system, he'd probably have to go onto e-Bay and order a fresh copy since his old
floppies of the program are corrupted, priced anywhere from $1 to $99 or more.
The macros available with WP 5.1 he knows how to use down pat, but those ways of
working with macros are not available on the emulated WP 5.1 version in
WordPerfect Office 12.

I don't know much at all about DOS, and he knows extremely little about Windows,
so there is a complete eclipse of knowlege between us. Mention anti-virus
programs, firewalls, or Windows Critical Updates to him and he does NOT get the
concept, no matter how many times I tell him. He figures an operating system
never needs an update...he was spoiled using DOS 6.22!

So, if he bought DOS WP 5.1 from e-bay, it would be installable onto a Win XP
machine?
He wouldn't get a message complaining about the OS being to foreign during the
installation of WP 5.1?
How would he access the program once it was installed?

 

[Cymbal Man Freq.]

|
| >WordPerfect 5.1 was built to be used on a DOS 6.22 machine.


I think you need to correct some serious misunderstandings here.

Word Perfect 5.1 will install and run under XP just fine.

<snip>

Thank you VERY MUCH. I will send your entire post on to the WP 5.1 afflicted
user who is causing me grief everyday.

 

[Don Taylor]

Notwithstanding the fact that WordPerfect 5.1 can be used under
Win XP, wouldn't it be prudent to switch sooner or later to the
NEW WordPerfect versions? Old files created under version 5.1
can still be read and modified as I have done so.

Version 5.1 once learned was quite a good word processor for its
time. I can appreciate the difficulties with finding proper
drivers while using XP tho'.

A few points:
As you may be aware, there is something commonly called the
"duckling syndrome." That is the first editor/word processor
that you learn influences you, often for the rest of your life.

Next, why would it be prudent to switch to something that is
substantially slower and often brings in a new set of problems when
you have something that works, and there is no overwhelming reason
to change? Particularly when most of the goo-gaws that programmers
have tried to dream up and cram into word processors, just so they
could say they had a new version, don't get used by lots of the
folks still using WP5.1.

Not everyone believes that you just MUST have the new version that
the software companies think they have to pump out every 18 months,
especially if you know the history of Word Perfect being dumped by
one company after another after another. Novell owned WP for a while.
Why? They never did figure that one out, and finally dumped it.

Actally I think the early Windows versions of WP probably did more
to cement the continued use of DOS WP as the standard far beyond
what it would have been if early Windows versions of software hadn't
been such total complete crap for version after version.

Once you have really trained the cells of your body to use one
editor and know all the features that you use every day, you need a
better reason than "yeah but our new version has reverse italic
hebrew font dancing footnotes, your old version certainly can't do
that, now can it?"

And unlike a surprising number of programmers I've worked with,
many of the folks handling your medical records every day type FAST.
When each new version of software can actually be slower, AFTER
you had to replace the hardware with new faster stuff, just to
keep up with the bloatware, and finger speed is what they get paid
for, you might wonder why it was prudent to upgrade.

But as you say, sooner or later, the current generation of
transcriptionists will all die, or the work will be outsourced
to countries that pay substantially less than India, and the
transformation to Windows will then be complete.

 

[Don Taylor]

....
I don't know much at all about DOS, and he knows extremely little
about Windows, so there is a complete eclipse of knowlege between
us. Mention anti-virus programs, firewalls, or Windows Critical
Updates to him and he does NOT get the concept, no matter how many
times I tell him. He figures an operating system never needs an
update...he was spoiled using DOS 6.22!

It was a simpler time. Now the monthly critical screw-up patches
are bigger than the size of the entire hard drive I used to use.

So, if he bought DOS WP 5.1 from e-bay, it would be installable
onto a Win XP machine? He wouldn't get a message complaining about
the OS being to foreign during the installation of WP 5.1? How
would he access the program once it was installed?

It is possible it would arrive on 5.25" floppies and you would
need to swap in a working floppy, perhaps from his old machine,
Sometimes if you install one of these you have to tell the BIOS
the floppies are 360k, even if they are 1.2meg, for some silly
reason I don't want to have to explain.

It would install just fine, create a folder, probably C:\WP51
and copy the distribution into the folder. You need to select
EGA/VGA display. Read the manual before you start.

See if the new computer has a parallel port printer for LPT1,
it is old enough it probably does. If it doesn't buy a cheap
old used parallel printer port card and stuff it in the machine.
Keep his old printer. If you have to swap printers look for old
"real DOS" printers and avoid this WinPrinter crap. Follow
the directions in the WP manual and you should be fine. One
alternative for printers are any of the Apple Postscript printers,
they are compatible and the WP5.1 drivers work. And you can tell
XP that you have an Apple Postscript printer to make it happy.
Some other true Postscript printers can be used in this same way.

If WP5.1 is all he is going to run you could either put a
shortcut on the XP desktop for him or you could put a shortcut
in Startup to start WP in full screen mode for him when XP
boots. But then you need to think about shutdown directions.

If he is not adverse to it you could arrange for an internet
provider that actually filters out the viruses and crap before
they arrive. What a concept.

If he gets in a bind and can't figure out some part of this
then he can toss me mail and I might be able to help him work
through this, but that is not a guarantee. Just be cautious
and don't end up breaking or throwing something away that will
be difficult to find a substitute for.

Email address is valid, it has been that way for decades.
Just make sure I can tell from the Subject that it isn't spam.
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Don Taylor]

My blind father is using a crumbling DOS machine; it got infected
by a virus two years ago and may have a boot sector virus (his first
virus in years from checking his e-mail and he never used anti-virus),
and his 16 MB of RAM has shriveled down to 4 MB of RAM. He is
massively resistant to change, well past the point of obstructionism.
He just got a donated Win XP Pro machine (PIII 733 mhz, 384 MB RAM,
20 GB HDD with 5 GB in use, and no cd/dvd burner - a machine I told
him to avoid but it was free and he wouldn't avoid it). He'll be
using the machine for scanning/OCR to text files, and for checking
his e-mail in Outlook 2003 and saving those e-mails in text files.

One other thing you will probably want to do, because he is blind
and moving from DOS to XP and using WP5.1 and likely using a "Windows"
keyboard, take a screwdriver, pry all the "Windows" keycaps off the
keyboard, and throw them away.

It is either another bug in XP or an "unexpected benefit" but
something about running apps in a full screen command window and
pressing some of the "windows" keys will hang some apps, WP5.1 in
particular.

I have not spent the time to track down exactly what it is that
happens to cause this, after the first few complaints about the
windows keys and I pried the keycaps off the keyboards, we had no
further problems with this and I didn't bother chasing it.

 

[Doug]

Some very good points Don.

Don't get me wrong, I learned WordPerfect 5.1 and appreciated
its great features. For newbies the new versions right out of
the box are easier to learn. Gawd, you don't even need a brain.

Doug
-

 

[Richard in AZ]

If I remember right, doesn't WP5.1 require special printer drivers to print.
Would these special printer drivers be available in an XP environment?

 

[Don Taylor]

If I remember right, doesn't WP5.1 require special printer drivers to print.
Would these special printer drivers be available in an XP environment?

Yes WP5.1 requires WP5.1 printer drivers that match your printer.

But WP5.1 does not mean the same thing that Windows programmers mean
when they say "printer drivers." These are not executable dll's
built using the Windows Device Driver Development environment.
I think I remember these are strictly data, not executable code.

The WP5.1 disks come with several .ALL files that describe various
printers. Part of installation copies some information from those
to create .PRS files that can control specific model printers.
These are not ascii text files but do contain encoded descriptions
of printer control.

Buried somewhere I think I still have notes on creating new ones
of these but it has been a very long time and I'm not sure I could
find it. The right google search could probably turn this up.
But these will almost certainly not ever operate a WinPrinter.