Is FireWire worthless/obsolete?

[John Doe]

At Newegg, they have 1 web cam that uses FireWire, they have 89 that
use USB. Isn't FireWire supposed to be good for web cams? Is USB
good for fast WebCam speeds like 25 frames per second at 640x480?
I'm sure the hype/advertising/literature says so, but I don't
believe what they say partly because much depends on a particular
system. Thanks.

 

[Ed Cregger]

At Newegg, they have 1 web cam that uses FireWire, they have 89 that
use USB. Isn't FireWire supposed to be good for web cams? Is USB
good for fast WebCam speeds like 25 frames per second at 640x480?
I'm sure the hype/advertising/literature says so, but I don't
believe what they say partly because much depends on a particular
system. Thanks.

-----------

The alleged advantages of FireWire over USB just weren't there in sufficient
quantity to justify the extra expense. Plus, everyone already had USB
cables, so why bother spending the money for FireWire cables when there was
no real incentive to do so?

Besides, any truly dedicated PC person has a deep hatred for Apple and their
feeble attempts to penetrate the PC market with their ad hype.

Ed Cregger

 

[John Doe]

....

Besides, any truly dedicated PC person has a deep hatred for Apple
and their feeble attempts to penetrate the PC market with their ad
hype.

I agree Apple is in no way a threat to the PC, Apple does what
Microsoft wants it to do or Microsoft pulls the plug on Office for
the Mac. I don't understand why they are trying. But, unlike Linux
Lunatics pretending the same about Linux, at least those commercials
are entertaining.

"I've been error free for a week..."

"I'm a delicious pizza"

"I banish you"

And others. Funny IMO.

 

[Ed Medlin]

I think way back when, Fireware 1 was faster than USB 1. It may have
pre-dated USB, too. When USB 2 rolled out, the speed advantage of Firewire
dissappeared.

The OP asks a good question: given comperable platforms, is there any
difference between a Firewire interface on an Apple, and a USB 2 interface
on a PC when it comes to video file transfers? Enough to make any
difference at the keyboard end of the equation?
Al

No advantage at all. It has been a long time, probably before USB2, since I
have had anything Firewire but I do video file transfers now with USB2 and
it is just fine. I would use ESATA now if I had the choice, but with 1.5TB
of external USB2 storage for video I will probably wait awhile......


Ed

 

[DevilsPGD]

No advantage at all. It has been a long time, probably before USB2, since I
have had anything Firewire but I do video file transfers now with USB2 and
it is just fine. I would use ESATA now if I had the choice, but with 1.5TB
of external USB2 storage for video I will probably wait awhile......

The difference between USB and Firewire is that Firewire offers
guaranteed bandwidth. For accessing a single device, the difference
isn't always significant, although most USB controllers aren't built for
continual transfer even with just a single device. If you're streaming
high bandwidth video from a device (say, from an analog camcorder) then
the firewire difference is crucial.

In the harddrive world, eSATA offers everything Firewire does with
regards to performance and bandwidth guarantees, but with lower
overhead. However, eSATA doesn't offer device chaining, you only get
one device, whereas Firewall can link multiple devices to each other.

Myself, I use eSATA exclusively for external drives, and USB2 for
everything else.

 

[John Doe]

Yup, eSata for the hard drive, Firewire for the camcorder,

Camcorder?

 

[Marty]

At Newegg, they have 1 web cam that uses FireWire, they have 89 that use
USB. Isn't FireWire supposed to be good for web cams? Is USB good for
fast WebCam speeds like 25 frames per second at 640x480? I'm sure the
hype/advertising/literature says so, but I don't believe what they say
partly because much depends on a particular system. Thanks.

For some applications Firewire is the standard, particularly in the music
production industry. Many mixers and effects devices only support
Firewire.

Firewire is technically superior to USB because of the way bandwidth is
managed.

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> John Doe

Camcorder?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camcorder

"A camcorder is a portable consumer electronics device for recording
video and audio using a built-in recorder unit. The camcorder contains
both a video camera and a video recorder in one unit, hence its compound
name."

 

[John Doe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camcorder

"A camcorder is a portable consumer electronics device for recording
video and audio using a built-in recorder unit. The camcorder contains
both a video camera and a video recorder in one unit, hence its compound
name."

What does it mean in this context?

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> John Doe

What does it mean in this context?

Umm, it means connecting a device that records audio and video to a
computer using firewire.

I'm unclear as to the confusion here, this is a fairly basic concept to
anyone who has used a camcorder.

 

[John Doe]

Umm, it means connecting a device that records audio and video to
a computer using firewire.

I'm unclear as to the confusion here,

Yes, apparently there is some confusion, there.

this is a fairly basic concept to anyone who has used a camcorder.

I have a digital camera that records video/audio but not while
connected to a PC. Camcorders were never chained to anything before,
why would they be chained to a PC now?

 

[John Doe]

LOL!!!!!!!!

Sounds like a GBOY.

 

[John Doe]

"~AlicGinnis~" <alik nowhere.com> wrote:

Wrong, Firewire 800 is way faster than USB2

Apparently PC users don't care.

FireWire 800 is substantially faster than Hi-Speed USB.

Apparently personal computer users don't use it.

1394a also standardized the 4-pin connector already widely in use.

According to merchants that sell personal computer gear, it's
practically unused.

Try to think in context, GBOY.

FireWire S1600 and S3200 will be fully compatible with existing
S400 and S800 devices.

Existing devices that are practically extinct.

It will compete with the forthcoming USB 3.0.

As of right now, apparently FireWire has a lot of catching up to do.

 

[John Doe]

....

Firewire also excells over USB in its full support for device
control. Absolutely necessary in the music business to be able to
control lighting, "recording, mixing,micing,effects using "One
protocol to rule them all!

Try to think in context, GBOY, how does that stuff relate to
personal computing and stuff we use like webcams?

It allows control of devices that MIDI only dreamed of.

For personal computing, apparently FireWire is a pipe dream.

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> John Doe

I have a digital camera that records video/audio but not while
connected to a PC. Camcorders were never chained to anything before,
why would they be chained to a PC now?

Well, I don't really know if you've ever used a camcorder, but in my own
experience, after recording an event, we usually do something with that
recording.

In my parents' day, this meant saving the raw unedited footage and
occasionally forcing relatives to watch hours of painfully shot shakey
out of focus footage, with the occasional fast-forward.

Myself, I don't record random family events, but we have recorded a
number of presentations my girlfriend has given, after which we copy the
video to a PC, edit, then either burn to DVD and give away copies or
sell it, or post online.

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> John Doe

For personal computing, apparently FireWire is a pipe dream.

Not a pipe dream, just patent and license encumbered, and more or less
unnecessary.

I'm always annoyed when looking around at higher end motherboards and I
am stuck paying for floppy controllers I won't use, licenses and
hardware for firewire that I won't use, and other similar items just to
get a couple specific more premium features.

Such is life with everything being onboard rather then relying on
peripherals now. On the flip side, things are more likely to "just
work" then when you had to buy each component individually.

 

[John Doe]

<snipped "no it would not be connected during use">

Maybe you don't really understand the context here, DevilsPGD, maybe
you are playing dumb, who knows. Doesn't matter what a camcorder is.
Why would the interface matter if you don't have the camcorder chained
to the PC during use? How does a camcorder benefit from FireWire over
USB? Looking briefly, apparently the interface isn't even important
enough to include in specifications about camcorders.

Do you get it yet, DevilsPGD?

 

[John Doe]

Firewire or 4-pin conencter. Forewire is the defacto standard of
most Digital Camcorders.

De facto standard?

Let's go take a look. On Newegg, first let's search for
"camcorders". Are you still with me, GBOY? Very good! Okay, now we
show all in stock camcorders and specify 100 per page. Since we're
looking for your totally spiffy FireWire, we arrange by highest
price since we know it would cost us (if it existed). Then we do a
simple text search for "connector" and lookie here.

14 = USB
2 = AV ports
6 = USB, AV Ports
1 = IEEE 1394, USB, AV Ports

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000050205&bop=And&Order=PRICED

 

[Paul]

<snipped "no it would not be connected during use">

Maybe you don't really understand the context here, DevilsPGD, maybe
you are playing dumb, who knows. Doesn't matter what a camcorder is.
Why would the interface matter if you don't have the camcorder chained
to the PC during use? How does a camcorder benefit from FireWire over
USB? Looking briefly, apparently the interface isn't even important
enough to include in specifications about camcorders.

Do you get it yet, DevilsPGD?

If you use the right search terms, you can find examples of people
who capture, via the Firewire port, live video from their camcorder.

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/24/882326

Some of the high end camcorders now have HDMI outputs on them,
for the same purpose, but you need an HDMI capture card (Intensity Pro)
to use that.

There are also industrial cameras that use Firewire. This one uses
1394b or Firewire 800, and captures 1600x1200 at 15FPS or
640x480 at 90FPS (the latter figure not stated in this advert, but stated
elsewhere). That translates to more than 80MB/sec (assuming 24 bit
color per pixel). The lower resolution is done via high speed
binning (ignoring some of the pixels while clocking out the data).

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-industrialcameras/cat-ieee/product-XCDU100CR/

There is a company in town, where I'm living, that makes high res Firewire
cameras, like that Sony example. So Firewire is still alive and
well for niche applications.

USB is preferred for high volume items (webcams for <$100), because
you can find a decent USB port on virtually all new PCs.

Paul

 

[John Doe]

....

If you use the right search terms, you can find examples of people
who capture, via the Firewire port, live video from their camcorder.

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/24/882326

With the wrong search terms, you can find totally bizarre and
difficult to believe stuff on the Internet.

Some of the high end camcorders now have HDMI outputs on them, for
the same purpose, but you need an HDMI capture card (Intensity
Pro) to use that.

There are also industrial cameras that use Firewire. This one uses
1394b or Firewire 800, and captures 1600x1200 at 15FPS or 640x480
at 90FPS (the latter figure not stated in this advert, but stated
elsewhere). That translates to more than 80MB/sec (assuming 24 bit
color per pixel). The lower resolution is done via high speed
binning (ignoring some of the pixels while clocking out the data).

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-industrialcameras/cat-ieee/product-XCDU100CR/

There is a company in town, where I'm living, that makes high res
Firewire cameras, like that Sony example. So Firewire is still
alive and well for niche applications.

USB is preferred for high volume items (webcams for <$100),
because you can find a decent USB port on virtually all new PCs.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000050205&bop=And&Order=PRICED

Camcorders that cost thousands of US dollars use USB.

My mainboard has FireWire ports. As far as I know, WebCams are the
most likely user of FireWire on a personal computer, but almost none
use FireWire. So one might guess that it's nearly obsolete for
personal computing.