Is 64 Bit Worth It?

[Guest]

I have an Asus A8N SLI Delux board, 64 bit AMD Athlon 3200, 2 GB RAM and a
250 GB hard drive. All drivers are supported under both 32 and 54, however,
I'm just not sure if there's be a benefit to running 64 bit Vista Ultimate.
Any thoughts?

 

[Zim Babwe]

Have you got any programs that will take advantage of 64 bit technology?
Video Editing, CAD, something along those lines? If so, 64 bit may be for
you. If not stick with 32 bit for now and you should be fine.

 

[LaRoux]

A good rule of thumb is if your mobo supports less than 4GB, don't bother
with x64. At 4GB, it's worth considering.

 

[LaRoux]

One more application for consideration, Virtual Machines (MS VPC or Virtual
Server, VMWare Server, etc.). Since running VM's will chew up big chunks of
memory for each one, if this is something you think you might want to do,
you could easily end up needing 4GB+ and therefore x64 would allow this.

 

[Rob]

Perhaps I have not been properly informed, but isn't the memory maximum
limit on the 32bit 4GB? From what I have read 32bit is 4GB and 64bit ranges
from 8-128GB depending on the version used. Is this not correct?

Rob

 

[Rob]

Sorry LaRoux, I misread your post. You were not saying the max was 4GB, just
might not be worth it if your mobo won't do 4+GB.

Rob

 

[BSchnur]

Right, that's a 939 board -- while it supports dual channel, max memory
is 4G.

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

A good rule of thumb is if your mobo supports less than 4GB, don't bother
with x64. At 4GB, it's worth considering.

I'd get Vista-64 if (and ONLY if):
- I was off all Internet and preferably all network access
- I use one or two huge apps that benefit from 64-bit OS
- I had working 64-bit drivers for my 64-bit hardware

If Vista-64 gets infected, you're in for a miserable time, as there's
not a wide choice of WinPE64-compatible av tools.

--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> "cquirke (MVP

I'd get Vista-64 if (and ONLY if):
- I was off all Internet and preferably all network access
- I use one or two huge apps that benefit from 64-bit OS
- I had working 64-bit drivers for my 64-bit hardware

And if you're unable to operate a Windows box without virus scanners and
other crutches.

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

I'd get Vista-64 if (and ONLY if):
- I was off all Internet and preferably all network access
- I use one or two huge apps that benefit from 64-bit OS
- I had working 64-bit drivers for my 64-bit hardware

[/QUOTE]

And if you're unable to operate a Windows box without virus scanners and
other crutches.

Well, it's like a spare wheel, isn't it?

You don't need it until you do, and then you REALLY need it.

Do you want to discover no tools will help you get your system and/or
data back, only when you need to do this?

Or would you like a heads-up beforehand?

Sheesh...

--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> "cquirke (MVP

And if you're unable to operate a Windows box without virus scanners and
other crutches.

Well, it's like a spare wheel, isn't it?

You don't need it until you do, and then you REALLY need it.

Do you want to discover no tools will help you get your system and/or
data back, only when you need to do this?

Or would you like a heads-up beforehand?

Sheesh...[/QUOTE]

Experience has taught that it's rarely worth trying to recover a
compromised system anyway, there are simply too many places to hide. I'd
highly recommend recovering whatever data you can and reinstalling from
scratch.

There are a number of ways to AV scan files as needed even in 64-bit
OSes, it's just real-time scanners that are difficult to find.

 

[Dennis Pack]

cquirke:
I think you're being overly cautious and possibly outdated. I've
been running x64 for 3 years, in production for almost 2 years. Vista x64 is
very much the same as XP x64 for functionality and stability. I've been
using Nod32 AV software for 3 years without problems, it's not free but a
trial is available and it's Vista compatible. Avast is a free AV which is
Vista compatible. Windows Defender works, SpyBot is Vista compatible as with
others. Drivers aren't as plentiful in 64-bit as 32-bit, for Vista the
32-bit and 64-bit drivers are just starting to be finalized.
I agree that 64-bit isn't for everybody yet, but it's not a reason
not to try it. 32-bit wasn't for everybody when it was released either.
Charlie Russel has an excellent whitepaper on 64-bit computing that should
be read and referred to. It's available at:
http://download.microsoft.com/downl..._XP_Professional_x64_Edition_Right_for_Me.doc

--
Dennis Pack
XP x64, Vista Enterprise x64
Office2007

And if you're unable to operate a Windows box without virus scanners and
other crutches.

Well, it's like a spare wheel, isn't it?

You don't need it until you do, and then you REALLY need it.

Do you want to discover no tools will help you get your system and/or
data back, only when you need to do this?

Or would you like a heads-up beforehand?

Sheesh...

--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!

--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

[/QUOTE]

 

[Guest]

as far as 64-bit and 32-bit goes 64-bit will allow for more instructions so
theoretically speaking your OS should run smoother. The biggest issues with
64-bit computing is the fact u can run 32-bit drivers which is not a problem
here, and that 16-bit isnt supported at all. To be honest 16-bit... i dunno..
who talks about 16-bit anymore? So technically 64-bit vista should run
smoother, and as far as apps go u can still run those since it lets u run
32-bit apps.

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 10:15:56 -0700, DevilsPGD

Experience has taught that it's rarely worth trying to recover a
compromised system anyway, there are simply too many places to hide. I'd
highly recommend recovering whatever data you can and reinstalling from
scratch.

That's as likely to fail, if...
- you have no idea why or how you were infected
- your "data" backup contains the malware
- you fall back to an exploitable unpatched state

....and that's before you consider unacceptable collateral damage.

What works in pro-IT land does not work for the rest of us.

Expect the above issues to increase in significance as Vista
accumulates more and more patches, to the point that it becomes
impossible for a dial-up user to regain fully patched state.

--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 16:07:03 -0500, "Dennis Pack"

I think you're being overly cautious and possibly outdated. I've been
using Nod32 AV software for 3 years without problems

It's not the resident av that is the problem; it's tools that can be
used formally from outside the installed OS.

My assessment is based on post-RTM testing Vista64 with the Vista64
DVD as mOS, along with Bart PE and Vista32 DVD.

Bart CDR can boot and do a few things; Vista32 DVD can't do anything,
and Vista64 can do very little as far fewer apps seem to run from it,
compared to Vista32 DVD boot accessing a Vista32 installation.

None of these issues will be immediately apparent, but will become
significant when users expect the same sort of results that their tech
support may have been able to attain in XP or Vista32.

--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> "cquirke (MVP

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 10:15:56 -0700, DevilsPGD


That's as likely to fail, if...
- you have no idea why or how you were infected
- your "data" backup contains the malware
- you fall back to an exploitable unpatched state

...and that's before you consider unacceptable collateral damage.

What works in pro-IT land does not work for the rest of us.

True -- When you get in over your head, hire a professional. How many
of us do our own surgery? Repair our own cars? Fix our own plumbing?
Fix our own electrical problems? Put out our own fires?

Many of us do many of the things above, but once you exceed your
knowledge or skills, you really do need a professional if you want the
job done right.

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

[/QUOTE]

Which points to an inherent design issue in Windows. As every
integration point can be used to "own" a PC, it should be possible to
manage these "from orbit" (e.g. WinRE off-HD boot).

If you spawn new integration points faster than these can be UI'd or
documented, and have no "from orbit" facility to manage these, then
you're looking at a major problem right there. Hello, major problem!

True -- When you get in over your head, hire a professional.

What a professional can do for you, depends on the tools and knowledge
at his disposal. If the tools don't exist, so that he can do less to
help you before resorting to swinging a wrecking-ball with hope-filled
eyes ("let's just write off this installation, wipe and rebuild, and
see if the system stays clean this time") then that may be a key
reason to avoid whatever factors led to that result.

IMO, this applies to Vista64. It may work well whgen it's working
well, but I predict your tech may say things like "Oh, it's -64?
Damn, sorry, much of what I said we could try over the phone won't be
possible after all". As this info is pretty hard for users to find in
advance, I think it's worthwhile mentioning it in threads like this.

Many of us do many of the things above, but once you exceed your
knowledge or skills, you really do need a professional if you want the
job done right.

Sure. But pros aren't magic bullets. When we as pros see factors
that limit us, so that we cannot meet expectations that would apply
without those factors, then IMO we need to mention those factors
upfront, when buying decisions are made.

--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!

 

[Ronnie Vernon MVP]

"before resorting to swinging a wrecking-ball with hope-filled eyes"

Thanks, Chris! Took me 10 minutes to clean my monitor and keyboard after
that one.

--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User



Which points to an inherent design issue in Windows. As every
integration point can be used to "own" a PC, it should be possible to
manage these "from orbit" (e.g. WinRE off-HD boot).

If you spawn new integration points faster than these can be UI'd or
documented, and have no "from orbit" facility to manage these, then
you're looking at a major problem right there. Hello, major problem!

True -- When you get in over your head, hire a professional.

What a professional can do for you, depends on the tools and knowledge
at his disposal. If the tools don't exist, so that he can do less to
help you before resorting to swinging a wrecking-ball with hope-filled
eyes ("let's just write off this installation, wipe and rebuild, and
see if the system stays clean this time") then that may be a key
reason to avoid whatever factors led to that result.

IMO, this applies to Vista64. It may work well whgen it's working
well, but I predict your tech may say things like "Oh, it's -64?
Damn, sorry, much of what I said we could try over the phone won't be
possible after all". As this info is pretty hard for users to find in
advance, I think it's worthwhile mentioning it in threads like this.

Many of us do many of the things above, but once you exceed your
knowledge or skills, you really do need a professional if you want the
job done right.

Sure. But pros aren't magic bullets. When we as pros see factors
that limit us, so that we cannot meet expectations that would apply
without those factors, then IMO we need to mention those factors
upfront, when buying decisions are made.

--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!

--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

[/QUOTE]

 

[Eric]

"before resorting to swinging a wrecking-ball with hope-filled eyes"

Thanks, Chris! Took me 10 minutes to clean my monitor and keyboard after
that one.

--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

Sadly, when your OS breaks, the solution you get is often "format the hard
drive, reinstall.." because the MS OS either does not come with the tools to
restore everything to a working point, or does not come with a tutorial that
explains how to properly use them. Often when you find an MS OS setup
option where you can restore from a "previous working point", either that is
a save point that was never created, or doesn't actually work, or is too far
back to do much good. I think MS can and should do more to either
automatically create restore points, particularly before and after
installing any software, or on educating the general public on how to create
them if it must be done manually. My OS died last week due to drive
corruption from losing power and I had to start over from scratch because
recovery options either did not exist or did not work. Some people like to
reformat their PCs regularly so they are running clean, but I find it to be
a major pain to reinstall each of 30+ programs that I use.

 

[Guest]

Actually, Avast offers a nice AV package for home use that is really quite
good and it runs just fine on x64. I was using it on my system til it went
belly up (can't get x64 to reinstall properly now so am on Vista 32 beta,
alas no SLI will make it a slow painful experience.)

Anyway just thougth I'd share that.