IrfanView - queries re EXIF data

[Terry Pinnell]

If EXIF data is available in a JPG photo, I can get access to it
straight after copying it from camera to PC by opening the image and
clicking E.

Q1: Some time later, after a minor editing (such as rotating and/or
cropping), I find the EXIF data is no longer available. Are there
specific rules about this please? What can and cannot be done while
preserving EXIF info?

Q2: Is there some shortcut to see the EXIF data directly while
browsing the thumbnails, instead of opening first?

Q3: Does anyone know of any software that will take a folder or
selection of JPGs and *list* EXIF data please? In particular I would
sometimes like to see a list of file names with their time and dates
alongside.

 

[Jaxxim]

["Terry Pinnell"; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:57:07 GMT]

If EXIF data is available in a JPG photo, I can get access to it
straight after copying it from camera to PC by opening the image and
clicking E.

I don't know the answers to your questions, but if you don't find the
answers to your questions, try e-mailing the author. He's very helpful and
open to suggestions.

 

[Rili]

If EXIF data is available in a JPG photo, I can get access to it
straight after copying it from camera to PC by opening the image and
clicking E.

Q1: Some time later, after a minor editing (such as rotating and/or
cropping), I find the EXIF data is no longer available. Are there
specific rules about this please? What can and cannot be done while
preserving EXIF info?

It depends on the application. I would think that expensive graphic editors
now retain the exif information but I don't know for sure. Irfanview will
keep the information (it has an option to preserve exif information) when
you resize or recompress the image. There are applications such as exifer, I
think, that will export the information to a file and then put it back again
after you finish editing it.

Q2: Is there some shortcut to see the EXIF data directly while
browsing the thumbnails, instead of opening first?
E


Q3: Does anyone know of any software that will take a folder or
selection of JPGs and *list* EXIF data please? In particular I would
sometimes like to see a list of file names with their time and dates
alongside.

Don't know.


jhead is a good program for manipulating exif data.
http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/jhead/

 

[rj65]

Terry Pinnell said the following on 11/10/2004 5:27 PM:

Q2: Is there some shortcut to see the EXIF data directly while
browsing the thumbnails, instead of opening first?

Q3: Does anyone know of any software that will take a folder or
selection of JPGs and *list* EXIF data please? In particular I would
sometimes like to see a list of file names with their time and dates
alongside.

Terry,

Thinking out of the box, you can use Jalbum (http://www.jalbum.net) to
accomplish what you want for Q2 & Q3. Check out the following sample
albums:

http://www.jalbum.net/samples/BananaAlbum/
http://www.jalbum.net/samples/Vertical/

and especially:

http://www.jalbum.net/samples/Blupro/

The Blupro skin gives you a real neat look at thumbnail, file name,
date, time and EXIF data for an entire folder full of images.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Terry Pinnell said the following on 11/10/2004 5:27 PM:
Terry,

Thinking out of the box, you can use Jalbum (http://www.jalbum.net) to
accomplish what you want for Q2 & Q3. Check out the following sample
albums:

http://www.jalbum.net/samples/BananaAlbum/
http://www.jalbum.net/samples/Vertical/

and especially:

http://www.jalbum.net/samples/Blupro/

The Blupro skin gives you a real neat look at thumbnail, file name,
date, time and EXIF data for an entire folder full of images.

Thanks very much for those replies. I'm downloading both Jalbum and
Exifer now. Had also emailed Irfan simultaneously.

Must say, I hadn't realised what apparently high quality graphics
programs were available as freeware!

-------

As a follow-up, does anyone know the interpretation of the three
separate EXIF Date fields please? They are: DateTime, DateTimeOriginal
and DateTimeDigitized. Initially at least they appear to be identical.
And maybe they remain that way? Which of these does IrfanView 3.95 use
for its new feature of sorting by EXIF date?

 

[Anthony Giorgianni]

Photo viewers is one of those categories in which freeware is right up there
at the top with the best payware titles. Unbelievable how good some of this
stuff it. Irfanview has to be one of the most beloved freeware apps
anywhere. Exifer is fantastic!!! You will like it. Saves the exif thumbnail
too!

Going through all the categories, I always feel like I've been let loose in
a CompUSA or something with a $10,000 free shopping spree :O)


--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

"Anthony Giorgianni"

Exifer is fantastic!!! You will like it. Saves the exif thumbnail
too!

Thanks Anthony. I'm sure I'll come to share your enthusiasm for Exifer
- but first I need to know how to use it! Unless I've missed it, I see
no Help. Just a list of features under 'Description' on the web page.
Having opened it and loaded a folder of original JPG images fresh from
my camera, I'm immediately faced with a bunch of questions. I've
emailed the author, but I suspect language might be a problem. So
maybe someone here can advise too please?

1. I gather it's not a viewer (although it looks like a good one at
first sight?), but for managing EXIF data. So, how do I do that? For
example, how do I 'backup EXIF data'?

2. Why are some images showing 'Thumbnail not available'?

3. In List view or Thumbnail view, why do some have a Date Taken of
'30/12/1899', while in the Image pane under the 'EXIF data' o the
right these show the correct dates (e.g. Tue 17 August 2004
11:15:03)?

4. How do I edit that bizarre date to the correct value?

5. What is an 'EXIF Thumbnail'? How is it different to 'a thumbnail'?
Why are both shown, one larger than the other?

 

[kapok]

"Anthony Giorgianni"


Thanks Anthony. I'm sure I'll come to share your enthusiasm for Exifer
- but first I need to know how to use it! Unless I've missed it, I see
no Help. Just a list of features under 'Description' on the web page.
Having opened it and loaded a folder of original JPG images fresh from
my camera, I'm immediately faced with a bunch of questions. I've
emailed the author, but I suspect language might be a problem. So
maybe someone here can advise too please?

Terry

I haven't been paying full attention to the direction this thread is
taking, but you might like to check out Exif Image Viewer at:
http://home.pacbell.net/michal_k/ 468KB zip file. No install.

There are a few screengrabs on site to give an idea of what it can do.
Which EXIF data to display is customizable and the columns can be re-
ordered (its good to not have the overkill of EVERY exhaustive bit of
EXIF data in view). Hovering the mouse over a thumbnail brings up an
EXIF tooltip.

I like the view when a thumbnail is double-clicked (optional thin strip
of thumbnails at top, with full-ish screen view below). Right-click to
see options. S'good!

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Terry

I haven't been paying full attention to the direction this thread is
taking, but you might like to check out Exif Image Viewer at:
http://home.pacbell.net/michal_k/ 468KB zip file. No install.

There are a few screengrabs on site to give an idea of what it can do.
Which EXIF data to display is customizable and the columns can be re-
ordered (its good to not have the overkill of EVERY exhaustive bit of
EXIF data in view). Hovering the mouse over a thumbnail brings up an
EXIF tooltip.

I like the view when a thumbnail is double-clicked (optional thin strip
of thumbnails at top, with full-ish screen view below). Right-click to
see options. S'good!

Thanks, kapok. I've just installed it and it looks excellent -
appreciate the recommendation. At first sight, looks extremely fast.
It even has a Help file too!

I'd still like to understand Exifer a bit better, especially if that
lets me *edit* EXIF data, e.g. replace the Date/Time when it's
missing.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

"Anthony Giorgianni"


Thanks Anthony. I'm sure I'll come to share your enthusiasm for Exifer
- but first I need to know how to use it! Unless I've missed it, I see
no Help. Just a list of features under 'Description' on the web page.
Having opened it and loaded a folder of original JPG images fresh from
my camera, I'm immediately faced with a bunch of questions. I've
emailed the author, but I suspect language might be a problem. So
maybe someone here can advise too please?

1. I gather it's not a viewer (although it looks like a good one at
first sight?), but for managing EXIF data. So, how do I do that? For
example, how do I 'backup EXIF data'?

2. Why are some images showing 'Thumbnail not available'?

3. In List view or Thumbnail view, why do some have a Date Taken of
'30/12/1899', while in the Image pane under the 'EXIF data' o the
right these show the correct dates (e.g. Tue 17 August 2004
11:15:03)?

4. How do I edit that bizarre date to the correct value?

5. What is an 'EXIF Thumbnail'? How is it different to 'a thumbnail'?
Why are both shown, one larger than the other?

No EXIFER enthusiast with any answers to the above please?

(Nor any reply so far from author Friedemann.)

 

[Susan Bugher]

I haven't tried that app but will add a bit of info and a guess below.

The date counting system uses 30/12/1899 as "day zero" (today
(2004-11-19) is day 38310).

'a thumbnail' probably means the thumbnail your camera creates.
'Thumbnail not available' probably means the camera's thumbnail is not
available.

Susan

 

[Phred]

The date counting system uses 30/12/1899 as "day zero" (today
(2004-11-19) is day 38310).

Why not 31/12/1899? (I thought 1/1/1900 was "day one". Mind you, Mac
users probably thought 1/1/1904 was the beginning of everything. ;-)
<http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;214330>

Cheers, Phred.

 

[Anthony Giorgianni]

Hello Terry
First, I apologize. I forgot to mark this thread in Outlook Express , and
I'm only seeing it now. I suspect I'm too late responding, but I'll answer
just in case (I'm emailing you as well since you're probably no longer
watching the thread.)

1. I gather it's not a viewer (although it looks like a good one at
first sight?), but for managing EXIF data. So, how do I do that? For
example, how do I 'backup EXIF data'?

It is not strictly a viewer, though it CAN be used as one. (It includes
thumbnail and a slideshow capability) I use Irfanview for viewing, sometimes
MS Photo Editor. I assume you have downloaded Exifer 2, which is a bit
different than Exifer 1. For backing up data, there is a "B" and an "R" on
the left side of the toolbar. Only "B" will be highlighted initially. Click
it to backup. The presence of a backup file with the same name as the photo
itself will allow "R" (restore) now will be highlighted. You commonly backup
before editing a photo using destructive software (software that eliminates
the exif data when you edit and resave - Adobe Photodeluxe and MS Pho Ed,
for example - a least some versions. Later versions of Irfanview do not
destroy Exif data. After you edit, you then can restore. You also can insert
the Exif data from one photo to another by backing up the data and renaming
the file. That's especially useful of you forget to backup, edit and save
the photo and need to recover the exif data say from a duplicate copy same
photo from a backup drive or perhaps from one still in your camera.)

2. Why are some images showing 'Thumbnail not available'?

I don't know why you're seeing this. If the exif data is available, there
should be a thumbnail - at least that's the case with my camera (an Olympus
2100UZ). Maybe that is a question for the rec.photo.digital group.

3. In List view or Thumbnail view, why do some have a Date Taken of
'30/12/1899', while in the Image pane under the 'EXIF data' o the
right these show the correct dates (e.g. Tue 17 August 2004
11:15:03)? Dunno. I've never seen that. Again, it may be something with

your camera. Or maybe it's a program problem that simply doesn't show up on
my end.

4. How do I edit that bizarre date to the correct value?
Dunno

5. What is an 'EXIF Thumbnail'? How is it different to 'a thumbnail'?
Why are both shown, one larger than the other?

The thumbnail simply is a small view of the image as it currently is. The
exif thumbnail is the original. After you edit a photo and restore the exif
data, the exif thumbnail will be the original photo while the standard
thumbnail will be the current version. You can compare them to review how
you changed the original.

Sorry again about the late reply. Did the author ever email back?


--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

"Anthony Giorgianni"

Hello Terry
First, I apologize. I forgot to mark this thread in Outlook Express , and
I'm only seeing it now. I suspect I'm too late responding, but I'll answer
just in case (I'm emailing you as well since you're probably no longer
watching the thread.)

Thanks Anthony - no problem!

It is not strictly a viewer, though it CAN be used as one. (It includes
thumbnail and a slideshow capability) I use Irfanview for viewing, sometimes
MS Photo Editor. I assume you have downloaded Exifer 2, which is a bit
different than Exifer 1.

Yes, I have 2.1.5 (Build 263)

One question that's frustrating me is, what is the significance of
some thumbnails having RED data underneath (filename etc), and some
BLACK? I thought at first it was simply with and without full EXIF
data, but I have several which break that rule. IOW some black ones
which *do* have what appears to be full EXIF data (i.e. the Image
section is present), and several red ones which have just the Camera
and Thumbnail sections.

For backing up data, there is a "B" and an "R" on
the left side of the toolbar. Only "B" will be highlighted initially. Click
it to backup. The presence of a backup file with the same name as the photo
itself will allow "R" (restore) now will be highlighted. You commonly backup
before editing a photo using destructive software (software that eliminates
the exif data when you edit and resave - Adobe Photodeluxe and MS Pho Ed,
for example - a least some versions. Later versions of Irfanview do not
destroy Exif data. After you edit, you then can restore. You also can insert
the Exif data from one photo to another by backing up the data and renaming
the file. That's especially useful of you forget to backup, edit and save
the photo and need to recover the exif data say from a duplicate copy same
photo from a backup drive or perhaps from one still in your camera.)

Understood. Just tried that, and agree, it could be very useful.
Especially as in practice it seems difficult to avoid operations in
several popular programs which destroy the EXIF data.

The only part of it I'm interested in is the date and time, in the
Image section. (I'm staggered at how much else is available, and
frankly can't conceive who would want to use it!)

I had a folder of photos from a 4 day solo walking holiday along the
Thames Path and made a copy folder called \TP-Edited. One of the first
things I did was get my horizons and vertical straightened. Any for
which I did that (and the subsequent essential cropping) lost the
EXIF. I did this with IrfanView 3.95. I've just tried a test again to
check my recollection was correct, and it was. Here are the detailed
steps I took:
1. Opened the original image DSC00001.JPG in IrfanView 3.95. (If I
used Image>Information, or the shortcut <i>, I get to the EXIF info;
or go directly to it with <e>.)

2. I copied that image to another folder to work on it, opened it
again in IrfanView, and used Image>Custom Rotation to adjust the
verticals.

3. Then I cropped it to remove the inevitable triangular slices that
rotation causes, and saved it.

4. In IrfanView, I can no longer see EXIF info.

5. In EXIFER, in this temporary working folder, in the top left pane I
have 'Thumbnail not available'. The pane top right says 'No Data'. The
pane bottom right has no info, and under 'EXIF Thumbnail' it says 'Not
Available'.

So, I conclude that the latest version of IrfanView (3.95), *does*
destroy EXIF data.

I don't know why you're seeing this. If the exif data is available, there
should be a thumbnail - at least that's the case with my camera (an Olympus
2100UZ). Maybe that is a question for the rec.photo.digital group.

As tested above, it must be because the EXIF data was destroyed by
IrfanView 3.95.

Dunno. I've never seen that. Again, it may be something with
your camera. Or maybe it's a program problem that simply doesn't show up on
my end.

I gather that is the 'zero date'.

The thumbnail simply is a small view of the image as it currently is. The
exif thumbnail is the original. After you edit a photo and restore the exif
data, the exif thumbnail will be the original photo while the standard
thumbnail will be the current version. You can compare them to review how
you changed the original.

Understood, thanks.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

So, I conclude that the latest version of IrfanView (3.95), *does*
destroy EXIF data.

Happily, further tests a short time later showed that I was wrong!

What I hadn't realised was in contrast to several other graphic
editing programs I use (such as Thumbs Plus), when you save a JPG in
IrfanView the dialog has an option 'Keep Original EXIF data' that by
default is UNCHECKED. If instead it *is* checked, the EXIF data is
preserved. So far I could find no way of setting that on by default.
(BTW, why would anyone *not* want to keep EXIF data? It includes the
very useful and easily lost date/time a photo was taken.

 

[Anthony Giorgianni]

Hello Terry

Glad you saw my message and got stuff working. (I was going to suggest that
you download and install all the add-ins for Irfanview, including the Exif
add-in. But it looks like you have done that).

To (not) answer your question, I don't know why anyone would want to destroy
the exif date - maybe it makes a smaller file or people simply don't want
others to know the settings they used? I find the exif info interesting in a
variety of ways beyond just date and time. It's great to know, for example,
whether you used manual or automatic modes in setting aperture, etc., what
settings the camera chose in automatic shots, whether you used telephoto,
whether the flash fired, as well as the exposure setting and stuff - all of
which may help you learn the techniques that works best. (Many times pros
using non-digital cameras would write down the setting so they could review
them later. Great to have it done automatically now.) It also is neat being
able to record which camera took the photo, in case you're using more than
one and want to figure out which you used for a particular photo. And the
exif thumbnail is spectacular, in case you want to see what the original
photo looked look before editing. You also can edit and add jpeg comments
and the relatively new itpc data. The itpc data really is interesting for
embedding all kinds of comments, credits, instructions, notes and other
stuff that you can read with Irfanview and other applications. But overall I
agree, much of this stuff I never use. But it sure is FUN having it all and
points to remarkable capabilities of this free software. I can't even
believe it's free, frankly. The same with the amazing Irfanview and lots of
other stuff we see on the newsgroup and elsewhere. Warms my heart, really.

One thing I really like is the ability to add a watermark to images that you
plan to circulate (though I haven't done that yet for the photos I put on my
web site).

As far as the red versus black info on the thumbnails, mine all are black
UNLESS the thumbnail is selected. If you hold the control or shift keys
down, you can select numerous files or thumbnail at once (standard Windows
stuff) , perhaps to run a slideshow on (use the page-up/page-down buttons to
cycle through the selected photos). The ones that are selected will turn
read. Maybe that's the reason? Otherwise, I have no idea. It's not happening
on my end.

Anyway, good luck with it. Feel free to post back if there is anything else.