Intel takes back lead in U.S. retail

[Yousuf Khan]

Looks like the price cuts that Intel did have worked for it. Not too
bad, but it's certainly not back at the 90%+ marketshares it had in
retail in the not too distant past. It's never going to get to those
levels ever again, not with the anti-trust lawsuit hanging over it.

Intel takes back lead in U.S. retail | CNET News.com
http://news.com.com/Intel+takes+back+lead+in+U.S.+retail/2100-1006_3-6092226.html?tag=nl

Yousuf Khan

 

[David Kanter]

Looks like the price cuts that Intel did have worked for it. Not too
bad, but it's certainly not back at the 90%+ marketshares it had in
retail in the not too distant past. It's never going to get to those
levels ever again, not with the anti-trust lawsuit hanging over it.

Intel takes back lead in U.S. retail | CNET News.com

I said this would happen...and what a shocker. Now we just have to
wait and see what the story is with servers.

DK

 

[Yousuf Khan]

I said this would happen...and what a shocker. Now we just have to
wait and see what the story is with servers.

Yeah, but one thing you didn't mention was that it hardly took back
massive marketshare. Intel was below 50% before, and now it's just over
50%. AMD was above 50% before, and now it's just below. Previously we
would expect Intel go to 80%+ marketshares whenever it made a move
against AMD.

Also did you notice the marketshare figures they were talking about for
AMD in retail notebooks? It was just above 40% in the previous month,
but now it's gone back down to just below 40%, which is still amazing
because you were saying it was barely 15% before. AMD has some major
representation in the notebook market.

Yousuf Khan

 

[David Kanter]

Yeah, but one thing you didn't mention was that it hardly took back
massive marketshare. Intel was below 50% before, and now it's just over
50%. AMD was above 50% before, and now it's just below. Previously we
would expect Intel go to 80%+ marketshares whenever it made a move
against AMD.

Yousuf, I think you are being deceptive here. AMD has always had VERY
high retail marketshare (it's been in the 30-55% range for years).
However, their overall x86 marketshare has been consistently in the
10-25% range. My point is simply that despite George's nonsensical
economics, price theory does apply. Intel's price cuts have reduced
AMD's marketshare.

Also did you notice the marketshare figures they were talking about for
AMD in retail notebooks? It was just above 40% in the previous month,
but now it's gone back down to just below 40%, which is still amazing
because you were saying it was barely 15% before.
Indeed.

AMD has some major
representation in the notebook market.

In the retail notebook market. I have yet to see any indications that
they are doing well in the corporate market which is what really
matters. Although, it's worth noting that historically, AMD first
penetrates consumer then business. Perhaps in a year or two they will
have a presence in the corporate notebook market.

DK

 

[Tony Hill]

In the retail notebook market. I have yet to see any indications that
they are doing well in the corporate market which is what really
matters. Although, it's worth noting that historically, AMD first
penetrates consumer then business. Perhaps in a year or two they will
have a presence in the corporate notebook market.

It is perhaps worth noting that HP does now sell corporate notebooks
using AMD processors. They are one of the few and I don't know what
sort of percentages we're talking about here, but at least it's a
start for AMD. HP was similarly an early adopter for AMD chips in
corporate desktop PCs and servers as well, and others followed.

 

[David Kanter]

It is perhaps worth noting that HP does now sell corporate notebooks
using AMD processors. They are one of the few and I don't know what
sort of percentages we're talking about here, but at least it's a
start for AMD. HP was similarly an early adopter for AMD chips in
corporate desktop PCs and servers as well, and others followed.

Indeed, I think AMD will also benefit from the fact that the
workstation market is more fractured than the desktop market (for
instance Fujitsu and Samsung make notebooks, but not desktops AFAIK).

DK

 

[David Kanter]

It is perhaps worth noting that HP does now sell corporate notebooks
using AMD processors. They are one of the few and I don't know what
sort of percentages we're talking about here, but at least it's a
start for AMD. HP was similarly an early adopter for AMD chips in
corporate desktop PCs and servers as well, and others followed.

Indeed, I think AMD will also benefit from the fact that the mobile
market is more fractured than the desktop market (for instance Fujitsu
and Samsung make notebooks, but not desktops AFAIK).

DK

 

[George Macdonald]

Yousuf, I think you are being deceptive here. AMD has always had VERY
high retail marketshare (it's been in the 30-55% range for years).
However, their overall x86 marketshare has been consistently in the
10-25% range. My point is simply that despite George's nonsensical
economics, price theory does apply. Intel's price cuts have reduced
AMD's marketshare.

Obviously you didn't read the article which debunks your simplistic "price
theory" drivel... nor are you paying attention. This is for June when AMD
was still supposed to be err, "capacity constrained". Intel's take back
was also in cheap junk Celeron notebooks which are being dumped on the
retail market because evemn Del lcan't sell them... and apparently
consumers who fell for the desktop Viiv bullshit and spent extra for it...
which unless I'm mistaken calls for a Core Duo (Yonah) CPU... and does not
fit your forecast of cheap P4s being the AMD-killers. Of course, now that
Core 2 Duo is due shortly, Intel needs chumps to take up those 32-bit only
processors - a bit of FUD about home theater etc. does it.

Subject changed back to original topic. Please learn how to post to
Usenet. This is not some chat-room or Web Forum.

 

[George Macdonald]

It is perhaps worth noting that HP does now sell corporate notebooks
using AMD processors. They are one of the few and I don't know what
sort of percentages we're talking about here, but at least it's a
start for AMD. HP was similarly an early adopter for AMD chips in
corporate desktop PCs and servers as well, and others followed.

I think what's important here for AMD now is that the HP monthly(?)
business brochure/flyers have an AMD "section", including, as you say,
notebooks.

 

[James Jones]

Of course, now that
Core 2 Duo is due shortly, Intel needs chumps to take up those 32-bit only
processors - a bit of FUD about home theater etc. does it.

Yeah, those crappy 32-bit only machines. How many retail machines are
shipping with a 64-bit OS again?
- Jim

 

[George Macdonald]

Indeed, I think AMD will also benefit from the fact that the mobile
market is more fractured than the desktop market (for instance Fujitsu
and Samsung make notebooks, but not desktops AFAIK).

Fujitsu does "make" desktops and servers, just not sold in the U.S....
notably their Fujitsu-Siemens brand line in Europe, which include Athlon64
& Opteron models.

 

[George Macdonald]

Yeah, those crappy 32-bit only machines. How many retail machines are
shipping with a 64-bit OS again?

Th epoint is that within the life of those systems you *will* see 64-bit OS
& apps. Anybody with half a brain knows what to plan for & buy.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Yousuf, I think you are being deceptive here. AMD has always had VERY
high retail marketshare (it's been in the 30-55% range for years).

Hardly, the earliest reference I see for AMD going over 50% is briefly
in the K6 days in 1998.

http://groups.google.com/group/comp...39?q=amd+retail&rnum=13&#doc_f6c30012cf590339

http://tinyurl.com/fz2rr

Then the next time I see another reference is about six years later.
When I posted something about it:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp...comp.sys.ibm.*&rnum=11&hl=en#cf8e09103c3317a2

http://tinyurl.com/s9ls3

Hardly what I'd call "always successful".

However, their overall x86 marketshare has been consistently in the
10-25% range. My point is simply that despite George's nonsensical
economics, price theory does apply. Intel's price cuts have reduced
AMD's marketshare.

Yeah, but that was always expected. Price cuts will cause slight shifts.
What we used to see in the past were huge shifts away from AMD, more
than the price cuts alone should create.

In the retail notebook market. I have yet to see any indications that
they are doing well in the corporate market which is what really
matters. Although, it's worth noting that historically, AMD first
penetrates consumer then business. Perhaps in a year or two they will
have a presence in the corporate notebook market.

Well, so far the only OEM pushing them in the business market is HP and
that's only been since the last year, and only in the small business
market. With that many caveats, it's not going to be showing up in
corporate markets with any great rush. HP has always been the most
enthusiastic about AMD processors in PCs, and it was the only one that
maintained a consistent relationship with AMD during the height of Intel
strong-arming in the 1990's and early 2000's.

Yousuf Khan

 

[James Jones]

Th epoint is that within the life of those systems you *will* see 64-bit OS
& apps. Anybody with half a brain knows what to plan for & buy.

In retail????? 99% of all systems go to end of life with the OS that they
came home from the store with.

Office, server sure, but not in retail.
- Jim

 

[George Macdonald]

In retail????? 99% of all systems go to end of life with the OS that they
came home from the store with.

Uh-huh so.... back to the store for a new box in a couple of years. I hope
they know that.:-(

 

[David Kanter]

Indeed, I think AMD will also benefit from the fact that the mobile

Fujitsu does "make" desktops and servers, just not sold in the U.S....
notably their Fujitsu-Siemens brand line in Europe, which include Athlon64
& Opteron models.

I'm quite aware of FJC's servers, they have licensed (or resell) IBM's
X3 and are one of the few large OEMs to sell 8S opterons (they actually
beat Sun to the punch IIRC).

I didn't realize they made desktops though...

DK

 

[James Jones]

Uh-huh so.... back to the store for a new box in a couple of years. I hope
they know that.:-(

And you need 64-bits for what? Once again, in servers/workstations
absolutely, but mobile and desktop?

Most retail sales don't and won't care for several more years at least.
No one, who has a clue and in retail, is going to upgrade just for 64-bit
support. And yes, I like my Yonah laptop a lot! ;-)
- Jim

 

[krw]

And you need 64-bits for what? Once again, in servers/workstations
absolutely, but mobile and desktop?

Yes, we're getting dangerously close to the memory limit. Saying
that no one needs 64b on their desktop is just so much Intel-think.

Most retail sales don't and won't care for several more years at least.
No one, who has a clue and in retail, is going to upgrade just for 64-bit
support. And yes, I like my Yonah laptop a lot! ;-)

They will soon, even if they don't "need" it.

 

[James Jones]

Yes, we're getting dangerously close to the memory limit. Saying
that no one needs 64b on their desktop is just so much Intel-think.

I didn't say that NO ONE needs it. Just that the vast majority of people
buying from retail won't. I have a 64-bit capable machine that I just built
and I expect to go to EOL with Windows XP 32-bit on it. And I'm not exactly
the average consumer.

They will soon, even if they don't "need" it.

Given MS marketting I don't doubt they will think that they need it.
- Jim

 

[George Macdonald]

And you need 64-bits for what? Once again, in servers/workstations
absolutely, but mobile and desktop?

To think that we won't see apps which benefit from >2GB address space
within 2 years, even in home hobby, is myopic.

Most retail sales don't and won't care for several more years at least.
No one, who has a clue and in retail, is going to upgrade just for 64-bit
support. And yes, I like my Yonah laptop a lot! ;-)

Laptops are a different story - I don't buy solely on CPU considerations.
For desktop and up, in case you hadn't noticed, Dell is umm suffering and
HP is thriving - HP sells through retail... to businesses. I believe that
Windows Vista will be the watershed: full driver support and why would
anyone "who has a clue" insist on buying a 32-bit OS?