Inkjet recommendations for photos

[Arthur Entlich]

I think most of the Epson refubs are early return printers that were
either needing some adjustments or repairs or just were returned because
people decided to go another route. I assume they come with a full 1
year warranty, which should supply enough time to determine if the
printer is working well.

HP has come up with a number of interesting printers recently, with
pigment ink and some of the higher end have built in calibration
spectrometers, but I do not know the numbers. Bob Headrick can probably
tell you more about the HP models.

I did just look over the specs on the Photosmart printer you mentioned.

Here are some questions I don't have answers to:

There are several cartridges used, two of them tricolor, and a black and
gray that are individual. The Tricolor cartridges contain 14ml of ink.
Is this total of all three colors, or 14ml per color? What is the
coverage yield from these cartridges?

Are there continuos inking systems available for these printers, and how
much do they cost. Can bulk inks be purchased of similar or identical
type to those in these cartridges?

They claim a 109 year fade resistance. Is this with swellable polymer
papers (which can have long drying times, and are scratch and
fingerprint/humidity damage prone) or with another technology, like
microporous papers?

The head is thermal. How long does it last and what does it cost to
replace?

The Epson 2400 has 3 densities of black ink (two gray one black), and a
choice of black for matte papers and one for photographic and glossy
use. The heads are permanent and have a very low incidence of clogging
with the Ultrachrome inks used in them. The inks are true pigment and
have very long fade resistance regardless of the paper used. The inks
are waterproof once dry and dry to touch almost immediately. You can
buy Epson's inks in "bulk" by purchasing the larger cartridges used in
the larger printers for either refill or use a CIS with it. There are a
number of CIS systems offered.

Epson ink cartridges for this printer contain about 15 ml ink per color.

I would very seriously look at consumable costs (paper, ink and heads)
before deciding which was a better deal. To determine which had better
print quality, you may wish to ask each company for print samples.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

OH, now you tell me ;-)

OK, this model uses individual pigment ink cartridges. Can't find how
much ink in them nor their yield.

Still uses thermal heads, and have no idea how long they last, so most
of the questions are the same. Probably doesn't require swellable
polymer inks to get the permanence.


Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

The information provided regarding the ink wastage on the matte to photo
or vice versa black ink switch is not quite accurate.

The 2400 does indeed do a purge of all ink cartridges when switched
between the two, but because the ink cartridge is right on the head, the
amount of ink required to be purged is small. I agree that the system
could have been better designed, but the $60 quoted is not correct.

That would imply nearly half the ink in the cartridges was used in one
purge.

The larger wide carriage models do indeed go through quite a bit of ink
on this change, as they have to purge not only the heads, but the tubes
that feed the heads from the cartridges. Some can waste up to several
hundred dollars worth of ink. The newer desktop models like the 3800,
have reduced this amount of ink by a new purge system. The 4000 (now
discontinued) actually allows you to use both blacks installed at once
and just switch between them without any purging.

Art

 

[louise]

I think most of the Epson refubs are early return printers that were
either needing some adjustments or repairs or just were returned because
people decided to go another route. I assume they come with a full 1
year warranty, which should supply enough time to determine if the
printer is working well.

HP has come up with a number of interesting printers recently, with
pigment ink and some of the higher end have built in calibration
spectrometers, but I do not know the numbers. Bob Headrick can probably
tell you more about the HP models.

I did just look over the specs on the Photosmart printer you mentioned.

Here are some questions I don't have answers to:

There are several cartridges used, two of them tricolor, and a black and
gray that are individual. The Tricolor cartridges contain 14ml of ink.
Is this total of all three colors, or 14ml per color? What is the
coverage yield from these cartridges?

Are there continuos inking systems available for these printers, and how
much do they cost. Can bulk inks be purchased of similar or identical
type to those in these cartridges?

They claim a 109 year fade resistance. Is this with swellable polymer
papers (which can have long drying times, and are scratch and
fingerprint/humidity damage prone) or with another technology, like
microporous papers?

The head is thermal. How long does it last and what does it cost to
replace?

The Epson 2400 has 3 densities of black ink (two gray one black), and a
choice of black for matte papers and one for photographic and glossy
use. The heads are permanent and have a very low incidence of clogging
with the Ultrachrome inks used in them. The inks are true pigment and
have very long fade resistance regardless of the paper used. The inks
are waterproof once dry and dry to touch almost immediately. You can
buy Epson's inks in "bulk" by purchasing the larger cartridges used in
the larger printers for either refill or use a CIS with it. There are a
number of CIS systems offered.

Epson ink cartridges for this printer contain about 15 ml ink per color.

I would very seriously look at consumable costs (paper, ink and heads)
before deciding which was a better deal. To determine which had better
print quality, you may wish to ask each company for print samples.

Art

OK - one more question - you say that one can use a CIS with
the 2400. What is a CIS?

Thanks yet again.

Louise

 

[Bob Headrick]

louise wrote:
OK, this model uses individual pigment ink cartridges. Can't find how
much ink in them nor their yield.

Try HP's page yield page (with ISO standard and Photo yields) at:
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/us/en/PSPB9180/index.html and
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/us/en/PSPB9180/photo.html

Still uses thermal heads, and have no idea how long they last, so most of
the questions are the same. Probably doesn't require swellable polymer
inks to get the permanence.

Permanance is rated by Wilhelm at 200+ years on HP Advanced Photo Paper.

The printheads are long life, but are also user replaceable.

This newsgroup is probably the wrong place to ask about the B9180, there are
perhaps zero users here who have actually seen and/or used a B9180. The
Yahoo group is a better resource for this printer.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

 

[measekite]

The information provided regarding the ink wastage on the matte to
photo or vice versa black ink switch is not quite accurate.

The 2400 does indeed do a purge of all ink cartridges when switched
between the two, but because the ink cartridge is right on the head,
the amount of ink required to be purged is small. I agree that the
system could have been better designed, but the $60 quoted is not
correct.

That is what I read. Read the reviews on the 2400 and the 3800. It
does review this subject. See the Luminous Landscape -
http://luminous-landscape.com/

That would imply nearly half the ink in the cartridges was used in one
purge.

The larger wide carriage models do indeed go through quite a bit of
ink on this change, as they have to purge not only the heads, but the
tubes that feed the heads from the cartridges. Some can waste up to
several hundred dollars worth of ink. The newer desktop models like
the 3800, have reduced this amount of ink by a new purge system.

Hey Oh Pious One that is what I said.

 

[measekite]

If you doe not use Epson inks in these printers then the printers have
not advantages.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

A CIS is a Continuous Inking System. They are also referred to as
Continuous Cartridge system CCS and others. It is a method of
connecting the printer to larger bulk ink bottles that feed the ink to
the cartridges through some fine plastic tubes. The newer ones use a
more sophisticated ink damper system without any sponges in them, so
they don't suffer from air locks, air bubbles, or encrusted sponges,
this ink damper system is the same basic design used in the larger
carriage systems.

You will find them sold by E-bay vendors, as well as 3rd party ink
providers. They come empty or prefilled with ink. The 3rd party vendors
will have ink to sell for them (bulk ink sets) but you can also consider
buying the larger Epson cartridges 110ml or 220ml for some of the other
X800 printers (like the 3800, 4800, 7800, etc), which will give you the
same inkset (the K3) but at considerable savings per volume. The
initial expense will be high however, since there cartridges aren't cheap.

Some people suggest just buying the 3800 or 4800, because the extra cost
is equal or less than buying the equivalent Epson ink which is provided
with the printer when purchased, but that is based upon buying the
equivalent number of small cartridges for the 2400 to match the amount
of ink in the 3800 and 4800 printers. It is still worth your while to
do some calculating.

One other issue... if you will not be using a lot of ink up, the larger
"bulk" Epson inks may not be the best value for you, as they have a
limited shelf life and even a shorter life once open.

Art