Infinite Loop with 9800 Pro

[Jorge E. Ravelo]

I have a Sapphire Pro9800 128 ATI/Soyo Dragon Plus KT266A MB/AthlonXP
2100+/1 Gb Corsair XMS/SCSI 2HD & 2CDROM setup/ SB Live Platinum/
Enermax 465w PSU that works beautifully with Photoshop, Half Life,
Nascar games, but which runs into an infinite loop on flight sims like
IL2 and MS Combat Flight Sim 3 (two to three minutes after start I get a
locked screen with repeating sound).
All drivers and BIOS are the latest, and I maximize resources by
shutting allmost all progs down with FSAutostart, to no avail.
I have run ALL AGP apertures, 1X to 4X AGP, all RAM timings, all
possible combos of video quality & performance settings, to no avail.
I have been on Ubisoft tech support for hours, same results.
As the 9800 Pro has its own power input I doubt I have an issue with
power, but just to put this thought to rest I am thinking of runningthe
video card on its own PSU as I have several 300W units lying around,
this in addition to running the rest of the setup on the aforementioned PSU.
Is anyone doing this separate PSU trick?

Jorge

 

[Ben Pope]

I have a Sapphire Pro9800 128 ATI/Soyo Dragon Plus KT266A MB/AthlonXP
2100+/1 Gb Corsair XMS/SCSI 2HD & 2CDROM setup/ SB Live Platinum/
Enermax 465w PSU that works beautifully with Photoshop, Half Life,
Nascar games, but which runs into an infinite loop on flight sims like
IL2 and MS Combat Flight Sim 3 (two to three minutes after start I get a
locked screen with repeating sound).
All drivers and BIOS are the latest, and I maximize resources by
shutting allmost all progs down with FSAutostart, to no avail.
I have run ALL AGP apertures, 1X to 4X AGP, all RAM timings, all
possible combos of video quality & performance settings, to no avail.
I have been on Ubisoft tech support for hours, same results.
As the 9800 Pro has its own power input I doubt I have an issue with
power, but just to put this thought to rest I am thinking of runningthe
video card on its own PSU as I have several 300W units lying around,
this in addition to running the rest of the setup on the aforementioned
PSU. Is anyone doing this separate PSU trick?

Wouldn't recommend it. Not sure but it would probably be wise to connect
the DC grounds and NOT connect the power lines of the supplies together.
Would confirm that with somebody knowledgable of switch-mode PSUs,
preferably before trying it.

Yur PSU is probably ok, but to make sure, use MBM5 to monitor voltages. All
+V lines should be within ±5%

Ben

 

[Lee]

I think after everything you have tried I would put it down to the fact that
IL2 and MS combat flight sim 3 don't like the latest 9800 pro drivers, have
you tried lots of older ati drivers?

 

[borolad]

Wouldn't recommend it. Not sure but it would probably be wise to connect
the DC grounds and NOT connect the power lines of the supplies together.
Would confirm that with somebody knowledgable of switch-mode PSUs,
preferably before trying it.

Yur PSU is probably ok, but to make sure, use MBM5 to monitor voltages. All
+V lines should be within ±5%

Ben

There used to be [ 4 or more years ago ] a gadget called 'N-Way Relay'
which I used to good effect with no problems whatsoever. I have
searched this AM for it and can find it nowhere.

Essentially as I remember it the gadget allows [ daisy-chain ]
multiple PSU's to be switched on or off together while being
completely isolated from each other.

The device did not combine the power going into the motherboard as
this would likely cause damage to components. Multiple power supplies
should always share devices between the PSU's rather than
combining multiple PSU's into one device.

Basically the 2nd PSU reads the 12v signal ( Molex ) from the 1st PSU
and switches on the 2nd PSU via the MOBO plug after which you use any
leads you like!

BoroLad

N.B.
I used to use them when building twin PSU Juno P6 cases the order
reference was " OcUK N-way PSU relay (OA-000-OC) " and the site I
bought from was : http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/

 

[Sham B]

Dual power supplies are a pain in the arse unless you get/build some circutry to safely combine
them. Floating earths, different power up delays, different impedences (causes one psu to become
'lazy') and different ripple frequencies (that double the noise on the power lines) can all cause
problems, depending on how you do it.

Its slightly better if you use the same make and model, but murder if you use different ones.

I would recommend a single bigger psu instead, but before you do that, have you tried disconnecting
everything except the minimum needed to run your game (you can get a no-cd patch from gamecopyworld
so that you do not even need any cd drive connected)...run it with just the video card and one HD
connected. That would confirm that it is indeed a power suppoly issue.... but make sure you are
ready for when windows XP tells you that your computer configuration has significantly changed and
goes into its silly 'I need to assume I have been installed on another computer, and will start to
get really awkward' mode of operation.

Before that, heave you tried disconnecting the sound card? The SB cards do have issues for some
users when running with certain chipsets and a 9800


S

 

[VJF]

I have a Sapphire Pro9800 128 ATI/Soyo Dragon Plus KT266A MB/AthlonXP
2100+/1 Gb Corsair XMS/SCSI 2HD & 2CDROM setup/ SB Live Platinum/
Enermax 465w PSU that works beautifully with Photoshop, Half Life,
Nascar games, but which runs into an infinite loop on flight sims like
IL2 and MS Combat Flight Sim 3 (two to three minutes after start I get a
locked screen with repeating sound).
All drivers and BIOS are the latest, and I maximize resources by
shutting allmost all progs down with FSAutostart, to no avail.
I have run ALL AGP apertures, 1X to 4X AGP, all RAM timings, all
possible combos of video quality & performance settings, to no avail.
I have been on Ubisoft tech support for hours, same results.
As the 9800 Pro has its own power input I doubt I have an issue with
power, but just to put this thought to rest I am thinking of runningthe
video card on its own PSU as I have several 300W units lying around,
this in addition to running the rest of the setup on the aforementioned
PSU.
Is anyone doing this separate PSU trick?

Jorge

Try running these games with the soundcard out for test purposes. see
if it makes any difference.

 

[Jorge E. Ravelo]

Thanks for the response Ben!
I re-thought the PSU situation, and with MBM5 my voltages are in spec.
The idea of a separate PSU is intriguing, but a ground loop in a PC
could certainly wreak havoc; as a musician with multiple guitar amps on
at the same time I have special modules to avoid the annoying hum of
separate grounding on amps.
Thanks,

Jorge

 

[Jorge E. Ravelo]

Good idea Lee, as I allways have the "latest" drivers, and these may
address features which the 9800 Pro doesn't have anyway. Probably an
older driver won't maximize the Video card as much. Will try.

Jorge

 

[Jorge E. Ravelo]

I would recommend a single bigger psu instead, but before you do that, have you tried disconnecting
everything except the minimum needed to run your game (you can get a no-cd patch from gamecopyworld
so that you do not even need any cd drive connected)...run it with just the video card and one HD
connected. That would confirm that it is indeed a power suppoly issue.... but make sure you are
ready for when windows XP tells you that your computer configuration has significantly changed and
goes into its silly 'I need to assume I have been installed on another computer, and will start to
get really awkward' mode of operation.

Before that, heave you tried disconnecting the sound card? The SB cards do have issues for some
users when running with certain chipsets and a 9800


S

Thanks for the advice Sham!

MBM5 sez my Ennermax 465W PSU is OK with current config.
The SB Live platinum sound card may be an issue, as the drivers are two
years old, However, I have run the game without sound and the problem
persists. However I have not disconnected & removed the card. Will try
that too!

Jorge

 

[Nick Le Lievre]

I have a Sapphire Pro9800 128 ATI/Soyo Dragon Plus KT266A MB/AthlonXP
2100+/1 Gb Corsair XMS/SCSI 2HD & 2CDROM setup/ SB Live Platinum/
Enermax 465w PSU that works beautifully with Photoshop, Half Life,
Nascar games, but which runs into an infinite loop on flight sims like
IL2 and MS Combat Flight Sim 3 (two to three minutes after start I get a
locked screen with repeating sound).
All drivers and BIOS are the latest, and I maximize resources by
shutting allmost all progs down with FSAutostart, to no avail.
I have run ALL AGP apertures, 1X to 4X AGP, all RAM timings, all
possible combos of video quality & performance settings, to no avail.
I have been on Ubisoft tech support for hours, same results.
As the 9800 Pro has its own power input I doubt I have an issue with
power, but just to put this thought to rest I am thinking of runningthe
video card on its own PSU as I have several 300W units lying around,
this in addition to running the rest of the setup on the aforementioned PSU.
Is anyone doing this separate PSU trick?

Jorge

When I went through the infinite loop my system was at first stable from a
fresh install at 166/333ddr fsb with PC2100 DDR SDRAM running at the
overated 333DDR and I had happened to have APIC mode disabled in the BIOS
although APIC mode wasn't at all significant to me at the time (I`d never
heard of the infinite loop).

Then in my infinite wisdom I decided to restore a backup image of Windows XP
I had ghosted becuase this backup had my system setup exactly the way I
wanted. The problem started when I had to enable APIC mode in the BIOS to
load the image as the Windows XP image contained in the backup was installed
with APIC mode enabled - I enabled it without hesitation it was just a BIOS
setting right.

From then I started getting infinite loops in the 166/333ddr fsb
configuration I was running (it didn't occur to me it had anything to do
with APIC mode) I discovered that if I lowered the settings to run on the
133/266ddr fsb configuration with BIOS fail safe settings loaded the system
was stable but I didn't want to run 133/266ddr fsb.

I couldn't figure out why suddenly my system had gone from being stable at
166/333ddr fsb to so unstable then I decided that perhaps my PC2100 ddr
wasn't working properly at 166/333ddr fsb anymore so I bought a stick of
PC2700.

When this arrived I was shocked to find that I was still getting the
infinite loop at 166/333ddr fsb and for much of the time when I needed to
use the system for long periods of stability I lowered the settings to run
133/266ddr fsb with BIOS fail safe settings loaded - this stability was
guaranteed or so I thought.

In my quest to get back to the system that ran the 166/333ddr fsb stabley I
decided a 550W PSU change was required so I ordered one and while waiting
for it to arrive I started testing the PC2700 I had only just bought to see
what the overclocking potential was. I did this by raising the fsb in small
amounts to see how high I could go and still get it to POST.

I tried 173, 175, 180 and finally 185 and they all made POST. However after
a few posts at 185 the system suddenly stopped posting at 185 I thought
nothing of it at the time but I decided it was time to stop testing and
backed off where it still posted at lower settings. I didn't know it at the
time but I had damaged the new PC2700 DDR stick by making it POST so far
over its rated 166/333ddr fsb.

This introduced another problem the system would now infinite loop at
133/266ddr with BIOS fail safe settings loaded although it took me awhile to
notice this significant change. Of course when the new PSU arrived it did
nothing for me at 166/333ddr fsb or indeed 133/266ddr fsb and my system was
just totally unstable.

It was only when I swapped a PC2100 stick from my other system that I
noticed stability returned at 133/266ddr fsb and so after all I had been
through and the time it took I was happy with some stability and stopped
trying to get back to the stable 166/333ddr fsb I once had.

I had after all tried just about everything BIOS settings, fresh installs,
various nvidia drivers loading the 4 in 1`s not loading the 4 in 1`s but one
crucial thing was that every fresh install I had made had been with APIC
mode left enabled in the BIOS - while I had tried disabling it while running
the prized backup I couldn't becuase Windows XP was installed with APIC mode
enabled in the BIOS - therefore APIC had to be enabled in the BIOS for it to
load and another fresh install was not an option at this time.

After some months of happily running my backup in a 133/266ddr fsb
configuration it dawned on me that APIC mode that was causing all the
problems at 166/333ddr fsb and it was time for it to go, so I started from
scratch and re-installed Windows XP with it disabled - from then on I never
saw another infinite loop.

Here is some more information on APIC mode APIC: Benefit or Trouble

*With Windows XP you can do a repair install from the boot CD whilst having
APIC mode disabled in the BIOS to "repair" an APIC mode enabled Windows XP
installation to an APIC mode disabled state - the repair option was not
available to me (for reasons I won't go into here) so I had to fresh
install.